I think Percy Harvin is the best skill position player in this draft (1 Viewer)

[LawFitz]

If not for the injury history and the confusing tape of him playing RB/WR, I think this guy would easily be a top ten pick. He's a flat out playmaker. Maybe not a better WR than Crab, but definitely a better overall football player. I think he will settle into a slot WR/wildcat role and thrive at the next level. I see him as a cross between Wes Welker and Steve Smiff. If he can stay healthy, which I think will happen with less snaps at RB, Harvin will be a STEAL for anyone taking him beyond the top ten where he belongs!

 

[Dinsy Ejotuz]

Harvin fans... did he catch most of his passes out of the backfield, or did he sometimes line up as a pure wideout?

 

[Yenrub]

What is he going to be in NFL?

It's kind of hard to get a good read on him coming out of a gimmick offense AND being a hybrid

 

[Balco]

If not for the injury history and the confusing tape of him playing RB/WR, I think this guy would easily be a top ten pick. He's a flat out playmaker. Maybe not a better WR than Crab, but definitely a better overall football player. I think he will settle into a slot WR/wildcat role and thrive at the next level. I see him as a cross between Wes Welker and Steve Smiff. If he can stay healthy, which I think will happen with less snaps at RB, Harvin will be a STEAL for anyone taking him beyond the top ten where he belongs!

What makes you compare him to Wes Welker or Steve Smith? Just curious.

 

[LawFitz]

If not for the injury history and the confusing tape of him playing RB/WR, I think this guy would easily be a top ten pick. He's a flat out playmaker. Maybe not a better WR than Crab, but definitely a better overall football player. I think he will settle into a slot WR/wildcat role and thrive at the next level. I see him as a cross between Wes Welker and Steve Smiff. If he can stay healthy, which I think will happen with less snaps at RB, Harvin will be a STEAL for anyone taking him beyond the top ten where he belongs!

What makes you compare him to Wes Welker or Steve Smith? Just curious.

- toughness- quickness- versatility- playmaking- strength- football instincts- heightDespite their short statures, Welker and Smiff are both terrific football players. They know how to get open and are very good at making plays when the ball is in the air. Percy is the same way.

 

[LawFitz]

One last point, I don't think Welker and Smiff are exactly the same. While they both share the above qualities in general Welker uses his smarts and hands more while Smiff uses his strength and athleticism more. Percy is somewhere in between IMO.

 

[twitch]

If not for the injury history and the confusing tape of him playing RB/WR, I think this guy would easily be a top ten pick. He's a flat out playmaker. Maybe not a better WR than Crab, but definitely a better overall football player. I think he will settle into a slot WR/wildcat role and thrive at the next level. I see him as a cross between Wes Welker and Steve Smiff. If he can stay healthy, which I think will happen with less snaps at RB, Harvin will be a STEAL for anyone taking him beyond the top ten where he belongs!

What makes you compare him to Wes Welker or Steve Smith? Just curious.

That's funny you mention those 2 names. I think he'll be a slot receiver like Welker. But he's definitely alot more explosive like Smith. But he's also a threat out of the backfield. But he's still only weighing in around 195, so its hard to imagine him doing much at RB other than the occasional 3rd down stuff, reverses or special packages. As a Pats fan, physically he reminds me alot of Deion Branch. And Branch could have been a much better fantasy player had he gone to another team besides NE and stayed healthy. Ironic, because those are the 2 huge factors for Harvin. Will he stay healthy? And will he go to the right team that can utilize those skills? The guy can be a truly special player at the next level in the right situation.

 

[FreeBaGeL]

Harvin fans... did he catch most of his passes out of the backfield, or did he sometimes line up as a pure wideout?

The biggest myth about Harvin is that he hasn't shown he can be a pure WR.While it's true he often lined up in the backfield, he spent a lot of time lined up at WR and he wasn't just running WR screens. I remember over and over again seeing him lineup as a WR, run a good route, and go up into traffic and make a good catch with strong hands and thinking "oh yeah, he's really good at that too".When he did line up at WR, he often looked like he had the experience at the position of a 5th year senior that had been a pure WR all along.The most underrated aspect of Harvin is his ball skills. He is great at making catches in traffic and catching with his hands. Even if his NFL coach decides to skip on all the wildcat/tailback nonsense he's still a top prospect as a WR.His pro day was yesterday and the scouts were saying the same thing when he ran his WR drills.

 

[EBF]

I don't know if he's the best skill position player in the draft, but I think he's a good prospect. The whole RB/WR thing is throwing some people for a loop. Personally, it doesn't worry me at all. I don't think there's any ambiguity with Harvin. He's a WR. At 5'11" and 190 pounds, he's plenty big enough to play full-time on the outside.

If he stays healthy and focused, I think he can become a Santana Moss or Santonio Holmes type of contributor. He'll probably never be a superstar, but he's an elite athlete with all of the necessary athletic gifts and football skills needed to make the transition. People are making the same mistake with him that they made with Eddie Royal and DeSean Jackson last season. They're looking at the college usage instead of looking at the athlete. This guy can play ball.

 

[Dinsy Ejotuz]

Harvin fans... did he catch most of his passes out of the backfield, or did he sometimes line up as a pure wideout?

The biggest myth about Harvin is that he hasn't shown he can be a pure WR.While it's true he often lined up in the backfield, he spent a lot of time lined up at WR and he wasn't just running WR screens. I remember over and over again seeing him lineup as a WR, run a good route, and go up into traffic and make a good catch with strong hands and thinking "oh yeah, he's really good at that too".When he did line up at WR, he often looked like he had the experience at the position of a 5th year senior that had been a pure WR all along.The most underrated aspect of Harvin is his ball skills. He is great at making catches in traffic and catching with his hands. Even if his NFL coach decides to skip on all the wildcat/tailback nonsense he's still a top prospect as a WR.His pro day was yesterday and the scouts were saying the same thing when he ran his WR drills.

Thanks FBG... appreciate the comments

 

[thecardiackid]

And will he go to the right team that can utilize those skills? The guy can be a truly special player at the next level in the right situation.

This is the $ question.Where he lands (scheme and supporting cast), along w/ the coaching-OC (i.e TN vs. NO) will determine the outcome. IF he lands in a pass friendly spot w/ either immediate needs and/or at least a lack of solid depth @ WR2 (like the Bears, CIN, CLE or KC) he could do very well. I do not see him turning into a WR1 like Smiff has though. He'll need someone like Braylon or Bowe on the other side IMO. I like his game, but he needs to be utilized effectively. Though I guess that could be said about 99% of the *skill* players.Like Royal or DJ in PHI last year (situation wise), and he reminds me of ER - just stronger and w/ more upside.

 

[jwb]

I knew there was a reason I mentioned him specifically in my "consensus rookie draft order" post

To me, his RB experience is a plus. Maybe he warrants 3-5 touches out of the backfield... he could be a really nice FF contributor, especially in a PPR league.

 

[twitch]

This will probably sound nuts, but I could see him in Detroit. If the Lions take Stafford at 1, Harvin could possibly fall right to them at 20. Obviously they have other needs. They'd probably be nuts to not go D with every other pick theyd have. But Stafford, Harvin and Calvin? Then, Oline with the early 2nd. Just scrap the D for another year, this is FF we're talkin' here anyway. Talk about a potentially solid young nucleus of offensive players. Harvin and Calvin and a young kid with a howitzer throwing them the ball? Yep. Works for me.

 

[tdmills]

Harvin isn't near the playmaker that Maclin is....period.

Maclin had less around him than Harvin did and still was unreal.

Harvin is very quick...but not blazing fast like Maclin.

 

[EBF]

Harvin isn't near the playmaker that Maclin is....period.

Maclin had less around him than Harvin did and still was unreal.

Harvin is very quick...but not blazing fast like Maclin.

Eh. I don't know if I agree with a word of this. There's a difference between timed speed and track speed, but here are their 40 times from the combine with 10 yard splits:

Jeremy Maclin

40 - 4.45

10 - 1.58

Percy Harvin

40 - 4.39

10 - 1.47

Harvin is faster for the first 10 yards and faster over the total 40 yards. Maclin may have a higher top speed, but most of the routes in the NFL are 5-20 yards. I think it's generally more important to have good acceleration and quickness than it is to have elite 50 yard speed.

As for their production, I don't think it really proves anything. Both of them were impact players. Arguably the offensive centerpiece of their respective teams. Harvin had a good supporting cast, but it's not like Maclin was a one man team. Chase Coffman is an NFL TE, Chase Daniel was a good college QB, and Derrick Washington is a potential NFL RB. Maclin and Harvin both had help. Maclin had gaudier receiving stats, but that was probably a function of his role in the offense and a higher number of targets.

Harvin has a shorter stride than Maclin, which makes me think he has a higher ceiling as a route runner. I think he'll be quicker in and out of breaks, whereas Maclin has a little bit of the long strider disease. He's not nearly as loping as Ted Ginn or Troy Williamson, but he's not as shifty and fluid as Harvin.

I like Maclin well enough and I think he has the potential to be better than Harvin in the NFL, but I don't think he's obviously superior.

 

[FreeBaGeL]

Harvin is faster for the first 10 yards.

It's funny actually, people are fairly misguided on Harvin's speed.Harvin's top-end speed is actually pretty mediocre. He was run down by or failed to pull away from more than a couple average college defensive backs on average teams over his years at Florida.On the flipside, his first 4 or 5 steps are some of the absolute fastest I've ever seen. The guy's acceleration is absolutely unreal. If there were such thing as a 5 or 10 yard dash I have no doubt Harvin would have run one of the fastest times ever.Maclin has superior top-end speed to Harvin, but Harvin has a FAR superior burst. Personally, I'll take the burst as it applies on more plays.

 

[tdmills]

Harvin isn't near the playmaker that Maclin is....period.

Maclin had less around him than Harvin did and still was unreal.

Harvin is very quick...but not blazing fast like Maclin.

Eh. I don't know if I agree with a word of this. There's a difference between timed speed and track speed, but here are their 40 times from the combine with 10 yard splits:

Jeremy Maclin

40 - 4.45

10 - 1.58

Percy Harvin

40 - 4.39

10 - 1.47

Harvin is faster for the first 10 yards and faster over the total 40 yards. Maclin may have a higher top speed, but most of the routes in the NFL are 5-20 yards. I think it's generally more important to have good acceleration and quickness than it is to have elite 50 yard speed.

As for their production, I don't think it really proves anything. Both of them were impact players. Arguably the offensive centerpiece of their respective teams. Harvin had a good supporting cast, but it's not like Maclin was a one man team. Chase Coffman is an NFL TE, Chase Daniel was a good college QB, and Derrick Washington is a potential NFL RB. Maclin and Harvin both had help. Maclin had gaudier receiving stats, but that was probably a function of his role in the offense and a higher number of targets.

Harvin has a shorter stride than Maclin, which makes me think he has a higher ceiling as a route runner. I think he'll be quicker in and out of breaks, whereas Maclin has a little bit of the long strider disease. He's not nearly as loping as Ted Ginn or Troy Williamson, but he's not as shifty and fluid as Harvin.

I like Maclin well enough and I think he has the potential to be better than Harvin in the NFL, but I don't think he's obviously superior.

I appreciate the write up....but I think we can agree to disagree.Maclin was injured at the combine and still ran an unofficial 4.4 flat. He is GAME faster....and I know that.

Harvin is quicker and those times were proven.

But supporting casts.....Tebow could go down as the best college football player ever, Louis Murphy is solid, Ingram, Rainey could be the fastest college player in the nation.

Daniels is solid(for the Big 12 that is), Coffman is good,....not much else though.

I do agree that Maclin is a longer strider...but so was Desean Jackson. I believe that Maclin is a more explosive and bigger framed Jackson.

This thread is about Harvin...being the best skill position player(wait what position is that again?) so I don't want to hijack it.

 

[NorrisB]

Harvin = Ted Ginn

 

[EBF]

Harvin = Ted Ginn

 

[gump]

Harvin is faster for the first 10 yards.

Harvin's top-end speed is actually pretty mediocre. He was run down by or failed to pull away from more than a couple average college defensive backs on average teams over his years at Florida.On the flipside, his first 4 or 5 steps are some of the absolute fastest I've ever seen. The guy's acceleration is absolutely unreal. If there were such thing as a 5 or 10 yard dash I have no doubt Harvin would have run one of the fastest times ever.

Great examples of this in the BCS Champ game. He had two 50-yard plays where he EXPLODED thru a hole and was into the open...then brought down by a CB that had an angle or caught him.I had to rewind those two plays a few times to believe the burst I saw thru the line...incredible.Don't forget he was open deep down the sideline as well...when a pressured Tebow just missed him.I love the guy...and really hope the Bucs take him at #19.

 

[LawFitz]

This thread is about Harvin...being the best skill position player(wait what position is that again?) so I don't want to hijack it.

skill positions = QB, WR, RB, TE... I think.

 

[Andy Dufresne]

I'm a believer. Hard to discount that he scored 17 TDs last year alone.

I think both he and Maclin are going to make big impacts in the NFL. But I do think Maclin is going to be the better fantasy player.

 

[Holy Schneikes]

Like Royal or DJ in PHI last year (situation wise), and he reminds me of ER - just stronger and w/ more upside.

Royal absolutely AMAZED people with his strength last year at the combine with 24 reps on bench press (more than any WR there, at 182 pounds). That may not all translate to functional strength, but it seems odd to compare a smallish receiver (who posted a respectable 19 reps) to Royal and have one of your differentiators be strength.

 

[Football Jones]

As it stand now, Percy Harvin is my pick for most overrated prospect. I believe you have to do too much projecting with this guy to make him a top pick in FF drafts. He'll likely be a 1st-rounder in the NFL draft, early 2nd at worst, but Harvin was a niche player in college. That's fine if he had shown elite skills as a WR, but he didn't, IMO. And I think most people agree he won't be able to make his living as a RB in the NFL.

Let's see where he goes & maybe we'll be able to get a better idea of his role as a pro, but he'll probably be long gone before I'd consider him a good value pick in rookie drafts.

 

[tdmills]

This thread is about Harvin...being the best skill position player(wait what position is that again?) so I don't want to hijack it.

skill positions = QB, WR, RB, TE... I think.

I think I was being facetious asking which position is he playing.

 

[jurb26]

I don't know if he's the best skill position player in the draft, but I think he's a good prospect. The whole RB/WR thing is throwing some people for a loop. Personally, it doesn't worry me at all. I don't think there's any ambiguity with Harvin. He's a WR. At 5'11" and 190 pounds, he's plenty big enough to play full-time on the outside.

If he stays healthy and focused, I think he can become a Santana Moss or Santonio Holmes type of contributor. He'll probably never be a superstar, but he's an elite athlete with all of the necessary athletic gifts and football skills needed to make the transition. People are making the same mistake with him that they made with Eddie Royal and DeSean Jackson last season. They're looking at the college usage instead of looking at the athlete. This guy can play ball.

 

[jurb26]

As it stand now, Percy Harvin is my pick for most overrated prospect. I believe you have to do too much projecting with this guy to make him a top pick in FF drafts. He'll likely be a 1st-rounder in the NFL draft, early 2nd at worst, but Harvin was a niche player in college. That's fine if he had shown elite skills as a WR, but he didn't, IMO. And I think most people agree he won't be able to make his living as a RB in the NFL.Let's see where he goes & maybe we'll be able to get a better idea of his role as a pro, but he'll probably be long gone before I'd consider him a good value pick in rookie drafts.

I generally agree with this. Harvin will be a far better NFL player than he is a fantasy player IMO. His athletic ability is without question. The problem is, that athletic ability alone isn't enough in the NFL. You need to be able to specialize it. I'm not saying Harvin can't, but those saying he showed those WR skills in college are simply dreaming. That's not saying he can't develop them. Only there is more risk IMO. There are simply too many unknowns and too much hype around Harvin for my taste. I'd love it if he landed on my NFL team. But I won't be willing to pay the price it will take to land him on my fantasy teams from what I'm seeing around here.

 

[EBF]

I don't know if he's the best skill position player in the draft, but I think he's a good prospect. The whole RB/WR thing is throwing some people for a loop. Personally, it doesn't worry me at all. I don't think there's any ambiguity with Harvin. He's a WR. At 5'11" and 190 pounds, he's plenty big enough to play full-time on the outside.

If he stays healthy and focused, I think he can become a Santana Moss or Santonio Holmes type of contributor. He'll probably never be a superstar, but he's an elite athlete with all of the necessary athletic gifts and football skills needed to make the transition. People are making the same mistake with him that they made with Eddie Royal and DeSean Jackson last season. They're looking at the college usage instead of looking at the athlete. This guy can play ball.

It seems pretty self-explanatory to me. With Royal, people were pessimistic about his FF prospects because he didn't put up big receiving stats in college and was viewed as more of a return man than WR. What those people overlooked is that he had all of the physical ability and football skills needed to produce as a WR. He just didn't have gaudy receiving stats because of the way he was used. I see the same thing happening with Harvin. Some people are pessimistic about his FF prospects because he didn't put up big receiving stats and is viewed by some as more of a RB/WR hybrid than a WR. What those people are overlooking is that he has all of the physical ability and football skills needed to produce as a WR. He just doesn't have gaudy receiving stats because of the way he was used. Put him on the outside in a conventional offense and he'll excel just like Royal did. He's a phenomenal athlete and a natural hands catcher. He can be a Coles/SMoss/Royal/Holmes type of weapon.

 

[twr]

As it stand now, Percy Harvin is my pick for most overrated prospect. I believe you have to do too much projecting with this guy to make him a top pick in FF drafts. He'll likely be a 1st-rounder in the NFL draft, early 2nd at worst, but Harvin was a niche player in college. That's fine if he had shown elite skills as a WR, but he didn't, IMO. And I think most people agree he won't be able to make his living as a RB in the NFL.Let's see where he goes & maybe we'll be able to get a better idea of his role as a pro, but he'll probably be long gone before I'd consider him a good value pick in rookie drafts.

if he goes to a team that uses him like reggie bush, hes going to be worth alot in PPR.

 

[thecardiackid]

Like Royal or DJ in PHI last year (situation wise), and he reminds me of ER - just stronger and w/ more upside.

Royal absolutely AMAZED people with his strength last year at the combine with 24 reps on bench press (more than any WR there, at 182 pounds). That may not all translate to functional strength, but it seems odd to compare a smallish receiver (who posted a respectable 19 reps) to Royal and have one of your differentiators be strength.

Point taken. I guess I didn't know or remember that nugget from last year's combine. Either way, maybe it's just my own personal 'eye test', combined w/ Harvin getting a lot of work out of the backfield - making me think he plays *stronger*.

 

[jurb26]

I don't know if he's the best skill position player in the draft, but I think he's a good prospect. The whole RB/WR thing is throwing some people for a loop. Personally, it doesn't worry me at all. I don't think there's any ambiguity with Harvin. He's a WR. At 5'11" and 190 pounds, he's plenty big enough to play full-time on the outside.

If he stays healthy and focused, I think he can become a Santana Moss or Santonio Holmes type of contributor. He'll probably never be a superstar, but he's an elite athlete with all of the necessary athletic gifts and football skills needed to make the transition. People are making the same mistake with him that they made with Eddie Royal and DeSean Jackson last season. They're looking at the college usage instead of looking at the athlete. This guy can play ball.

It seems pretty self-explanatory to me. With Royal, people were pessimistic about his FF prospects because he didn't put up big receiving stats in college and was viewed as more of a return man than WR. What those people overlooked is that he had all of the physical ability and football skills needed to produce as a WR. He just didn't have gaudy receiving stats because of the way he was used. I see the same thing happening with Harvin. Some people are pessimistic about his FF prospects because he didn't put up big receiving stats and is viewed by some as more of a RB/WR hybrid than a WR. What those people are overlooking is that he has all of the physical ability and football skills needed to produce as a WR. He just doesn't have gaudy receiving stats because of the way he was used. Put him on the outside in a conventional offense and he'll excel just like Royal did. He's a phenomenal athlete and a natural hands catcher. He can be a Coles/SMoss/Royal/Holmes type of weapon.

Why are you lumping Jackson into this is my real question? You never even mentioned him in this response and for good reason IMO.

 

[trader jake]

Harvin = Ted Ginn

Agree with EBF here. To me Harvin's game in the NFL will more closely resemble Devin Hester than Ted Ginn.

 

[jurb26]

Harvin = Ted Ginn

Agree with EBF here. To me Harvin's game in the NFL will more closely resemble Devin Hester than Ted Ginn.

Then you agree with me, not EBF.

 

[trader jake]

Harvin = Ted Ginn

Agree with EBF here. To me Harvin's game in the NFL will more closely resemble Devin Hester than Ted Ginn.

Then you agree with me, not EBF.

Just don't see Harvin getting consistent carries out of the backfield and his frame is too small to allow him to be a true #1 NFL wideout. Explosive player but he isn't 'the best skill position player in this draft'.

 

[EBF]

I don't know if he's the best skill position player in the draft, but I think he's a good prospect. The whole RB/WR thing is throwing some people for a loop. Personally, it doesn't worry me at all. I don't think there's any ambiguity with Harvin. He's a WR. At 5'11" and 190 pounds, he's plenty big enough to play full-time on the outside.

If he stays healthy and focused, I think he can become a Santana Moss or Santonio Holmes type of contributor. He'll probably never be a superstar, but he's an elite athlete with all of the necessary athletic gifts and football skills needed to make the transition. People are making the same mistake with him that they made with Eddie Royal and DeSean Jackson last season. They're looking at the college usage instead of looking at the athlete. This guy can play ball.

It seems pretty self-explanatory to me. With Royal, people were pessimistic about his FF prospects because he didn't put up big receiving stats in college and was viewed as more of a return man than WR. What those people overlooked is that he had all of the physical ability and football skills needed to produce as a WR. He just didn't have gaudy receiving stats because of the way he was used. I see the same thing happening with Harvin. Some people are pessimistic about his FF prospects because he didn't put up big receiving stats and is viewed by some as more of a RB/WR hybrid than a WR. What those people are overlooking is that he has all of the physical ability and football skills needed to produce as a WR. He just doesn't have gaudy receiving stats because of the way he was used. Put him on the outside in a conventional offense and he'll excel just like Royal did. He's a phenomenal athlete and a natural hands catcher. He can be a Coles/SMoss/Royal/Holmes type of weapon.

Why are you lumping Jackson into this is my real question? You never even mentioned him in this response and for good reason IMO.

Yea, Jackson isn't a great comparison. I probably shouldn't have mentioned him. Anyways, some people are approaching this with a narrow mind. NFL teams don't just look at how a guy was used in college and assume that it's exactly how he must be used in the pro grame. They look at the athlete and they PROJECT how he'll perform once he's in their system. Harvin projects very well as a full time WR. The people who mention Reggie Bush and Chris Johnson are just missing the point, IMO. This guy is not a RB. He may get an occasional carry on gadget plays, but he'll make his living on the outside catching passes. Is he big enough to play WR? No question. Does he have enough explosiveness, speed, and quickness to be a great route runner? No question. Does he catch the ball cleanly and demonstrate natural hands? Absolutely. I don't think Harvin will ever be a frontline FF player who single-handedly carries teams to titles, but there's really no reason to think he can't be Laveranues Coles or Eddie Royal.

 

[EBF]

Harvin = Ted Ginn

Agree with EBF here. To me Harvin's game in the NFL will more closely resemble Devin Hester than Ted Ginn.

Then you agree with me, not EBF.

Just don't see Harvin getting consistent carries out of the backfield and his frame is too small to allow him to be a true #1 NFL wideout. Explosive player but he isn't 'the best skill position player in this draft'.

I don't understand the obsession that people have with size. It's not that important for WRs. Santana Moss - 5'10" 200Steve Smith - 5'9" 185Eddie Royal - 5'9" 185Santonio Holmes - 5'11" 192Joey Galloway - 5'11" 197Marvin Harrison - 6'0" 185Isaac Bruce - 6'0" 188Greg Jennings - 5'11" 197Laveranues Coles - 5'11" 192Derrick Mason - 5'10" 192Donald Driver - 6'0" 194Lee Evans - 5'11" 197Terry Glenn - 5'11" 196Percy Harvin - 5'11" 192This notion of "ideal size" is basically bunk and should generally be ignored.

 

[trader jake]

This notion of "ideal size" is basically bunk and should generally be ignored.

In the grand scheme of the NFL the wideout position isn't important enough to justify a 1st round selection unless the player has it all...and Harvin doesn't. Too many busts, too many headaches, and too many of them are dependent on factors outside their control. Add in the steep learning curve for the position and it's a perfect storm of missed opportunity costs for GM's.Basically, I don't believe Percy Harvin is worth a 1st round selection. In the NFL or fantasy ball.

 

[bcr8f]

I really haven't liked Gator WR's lately but I'm starting to come around. I was impressed with him at his pro day. I wouldn't use him as a RB but perhaps a slash type roll could work.

 

[tdmills]

I don't know if he's the best skill position player in the draft, but I think he's a good prospect. The whole RB/WR thing is throwing some people for a loop. Personally, it doesn't worry me at all. I don't think there's any ambiguity with Harvin. He's a WR. At 5'11" and 190 pounds, he's plenty big enough to play full-time on the outside.

If he stays healthy and focused, I think he can become a Santana Moss or Santonio Holmes type of contributor. He'll probably never be a superstar, but he's an elite athlete with all of the necessary athletic gifts and football skills needed to make the transition. People are making the same mistake with him that they made with Eddie Royal and DeSean Jackson last season. They're looking at the college usage instead of looking at the athlete. This guy can play ball.

It seems pretty self-explanatory to me. With Royal, people were pessimistic about his FF prospects because he didn't put up big receiving stats in college and was viewed as more of a return man than WR. What those people overlooked is that he had all of the physical ability and football skills needed to produce as a WR. He just didn't have gaudy receiving stats because of the way he was used. I see the same thing happening with Harvin. Some people are pessimistic about his FF prospects because he didn't put up big receiving stats and is viewed by some as more of a RB/WR hybrid than a WR. What those people are overlooking is that he has all of the physical ability and football skills needed to produce as a WR. He just doesn't have gaudy receiving stats because of the way he was used. Put him on the outside in a conventional offense and he'll excel just like Royal did. He's a phenomenal athlete and a natural hands catcher. He can be a Coles/SMoss/Royal/Holmes type of weapon.

Why are you lumping Jackson into this is my real question? You never even mentioned him in this response and for good reason IMO.

Yea, Jackson isn't a great comparison. I probably shouldn't have mentioned him. Anyways, some people are approaching this with a narrow mind. NFL teams don't just look at how a guy was used in college and assume that it's exactly how he must be used in the pro grame. They look at the athlete and they PROJECT how he'll perform once he's in their system. Harvin projects very well as a full time WR. The people who mention Reggie Bush and Chris Johnson are just missing the point, IMO. This guy is not a RB. He may get an occasional carry on gadget plays, but he'll make his living on the outside catching passes. Is he big enough to play WR? No question. Does he have enough explosiveness, speed, and quickness to be a great route runner? No question. Does he catch the ball cleanly and demonstrate natural hands? Absolutely. I don't think Harvin will ever be a frontline FF player who single-handedly carries teams to titles, but there's really no reason to think he can't be Laveranues Coles or Eddie Royal.

Well EBF, I am going to respectfully disagree with your point of Reggie Bush and Chris Johnson comparisons. Reggie Bush has all along been a WR trying to play RB and Chris Johnson was a WR until Skip Holtz moved him to RB later in his collegiate career. I believe they all have similiar skill sets and that is a great comparison.Now I do agree with you that team project players and how they will fit within their own system/team. If I have to compare it, it is very similiar to college recruiting. Teams first recruit the athlete and then try to implement them/develop them to fit their system. I believe teams try to change players too much...just me though. But I don't believe Harvin can be a true good WR....day in and day out. In the right system....he could be that slot/Welker type player. Or that Reggie Bush package type player.

But you never do know how they will develop. The main question here is that he is the best skill position player(who doesn't have a position).

He has a lot of negatives.

1)Is he a system player?

2)What position will he play?

3)Can he stay healthy?

4)He is undersized?

5)Can a Florida WR succeed in the NFL?

Just a few negatives to discuss to start.

 

[EBF]

This notion of "ideal size" is basically bunk and should generally be ignored.

In the grand scheme of the NFL the wideout position isn't important enough to justify a 1st round selection unless the player has it all...and Harvin doesn't. Too many busts, too many headaches, and too many of them are dependent on factors outside their control. Add in the steep learning curve for the position and it's a perfect storm of missed opportunity costs for GM's.Basically, I don't believe Percy Harvin is worth a 1st round selection. In the NFL or fantasy ball.

We're not talking about where he'll go in the NFL draft. We're talking about his FF prospects. You say he doesn't have it all. What exactly is his game missing? I don't see any glaring holes myself. It's funny that people can say Harvin is too small to be a starting NFL WR and then turn around and draft Steve Smith, Santonio Holmes, Eddie Royal, Laveranues Coles, Santana Moss, and Derrick Mason in their FF leagues.

 

[EBF]

Now I do agree with you that team project players and how they will fit within their own system/team. If I have to compare it, it is very similiar to college recruiting. Teams first recruit the athlete and then try to implement them/develop them to fit their system. I believe teams try to change players too much...just me though. But I don't believe Harvin can be a true good WR....day in and day out. In the right system....he could be that slot/Welker type player. Or that Reggie Bush package type player.But you never do know how they will develop. The main question here is that he is the best skill position player(who doesn't have a position).He has a lot of negatives.1)Is he a system player?2)What position will he play?3)Can he stay healthy?4)He is undersized?5)Can a Florida WR succeed in the NFL?Just a few negatives to discuss to start.

The only legitimate knock is durability. The answers to the other questions seem pretty obvious to me. Is he a system player? No. He's an athletic freak of nature who would have excelled for any major program. What position will he play? WR. The people looking at him as a RB/WR hybrid are letting his role in Florida's gimmicky offense cloud their analysis. He may be used on some trick plays, but I bet he won't carry it more than 3-4 times per game.Is he undersized? No. As I showed earlier, there are numerous standout WRs with similar dimensions. Can a Florida WR succeed in the NFL? Yes. Where you go to school has no bearing on your ability to play football.

 

[jurb26]

This notion of "ideal size" is basically bunk and should generally be ignored.

In the grand scheme of the NFL the wideout position isn't important enough to justify a 1st round selection unless the player has it all...and Harvin doesn't. Too many busts, too many headaches, and too many of them are dependent on factors outside their control. Add in the steep learning curve for the position and it's a perfect storm of missed opportunity costs for GM's.Basically, I don't believe Percy Harvin is worth a 1st round selection. In the NFL or fantasy ball.

We're not talking about where he'll go in the NFL draft. We're talking about his FF prospects. You say he doesn't have it all. What exactly is his game missing? I don't see any glaring holes myself. It's funny that people can say Harvin is too small to be a starting NFL WR and then turn around and draft Steve Smith, Santionio Holmes, Eddie Royal, Laveranues Coles, Santana Moss, and Derrick Mason in their FF leagues.

Suffice it to say that although I think Harvin is a great athlete I don't think he does any of the WR functions as well as you seem to. As a matter of fact (and I've said this for months) I don't really know how you can have such strong opinions of this elite WR ability given his body of work in college. Hence, I think the best comparison that can be made for Harvin is Hester. As far as prospects coming out of school it doesn't get much closer to this IMO. Like Hester, Harvin will have to fine tune his natural abilities to flourish in the NFL. I'm not sure those natural abilities are even ideally suited towards playing WR at the NFL level. That will likely take time and there is no certainty that it will ever happen. I think his ceiling as a WR is to turn into a Santana Moss type guy. Floor, Peter Warrick.

 

[jurb26]

What position will he play? WR. The people looking at him as a RB/WR hybrid are letting his role in Florida's gimmicky offense cloud their analysis.

Do you even realize that you could be one of these such people just as much as the ones you are trying to call out?

 

[tdmills]

Now I do agree with you that team project players and how they will fit within their own system/team. If I have to compare it, it is very similiar to college recruiting. Teams first recruit the athlete and then try to implement them/develop them to fit their system. I believe teams try to change players too much...just me though. But I don't believe Harvin can be a true good WR....day in and day out. In the right system....he could be that slot/Welker type player. Or that Reggie Bush package type player.But you never do know how they will develop. The main question here is that he is the best skill position player(who doesn't have a position).He has a lot of negatives.1)Is he a system player?2)What position will he play?3)Can he stay healthy?4)He is undersized?5)Can a Florida WR succeed in the NFL?Just a few negatives to discuss to start.

The only legitimate knock is durability. The answers to the other questions seem pretty obvious to me. Is he a system player? No. He's an athletic freak of nature who would have excelled for any major program. What position will he play? WR. The people looking at him as a RB/WR hybrid are letting his role in Florida's gimmicky offense cloud their analysis. He may be used on some trick plays, but I bet he won't carry it more than 3-4 times per game.Is he undersized? No. As I showed earlier, there are numerous standout WRs with similar dimensions. Can a Florida WR succeed in the NFL? Yes. Where you go to school has no bearing on your ability to play football.

I think the durability thing isn't as big of a deal....because he didn't have a MAJOR injury right?Well saying he can be a WR and him doing it are two different things. I want to know if he can be an X or a Z...not a slot.Where you go to school does have a bearing. The quality of facilities and coaches help in development, plus having a Pro style offense makes the transition less extreme to the NFL.I think the main thing is can he be a legit WR...nobody knows. He didn't do it in college, but he does have good athletic ability.

 

[EBF]

What position will he play? WR. The people looking at him as a RB/WR hybrid are letting his role in Florida's gimmicky offense cloud their analysis.

Do you even realize that you could be one of these such people just as much as the ones you are trying to call out?

I'm not letting his college usage cloud my opinion of his skills. Quite the opposite. I'm looking past the gimmicky offense and evaluating the athlete in a vacuum. Here's what I see:- He's well built for the WR position at 5'11" and 192 pounds. This is the exact same size as Laveranues Coles and Santonio Holmes. It's within 5 pounds of numerous productive starting NFL receivers.- He passes the combine test with flying colors. Great 40 time. Great 10 yard time. 19 reps of 225 pounds on the bench. 37.5" vertical and 10'1" broad jump. He's fast, strong, and explosive. - He's an impact player on the football field. He's a smooth runner with good speed and an excellent burst. Though he didn't get as many opportunities at WR as other players in this class, he looks good running routes and he catches the ball cleanly. - He was impressive enough to earn a consensus 1st-2nd round grade. When the dust settles, he'll be a high draft pick. I really don't see much NOT to like here. This kid was touted as one of the best football players in the country when he was a high school senior. He produced in many capacities in the most difficult conference in the country. He has all of the physical skills that you look for at the position. On the field, he's a standout player who seamlessly translates his athletic gifts into football success. He's going to be a high draft pick, proving that the NFL scouts are high on his ability. There are almost no negatives with Harvin. I don't think he has quite as much upside as some of the other WRs in this draft, but he looks like one of the safest picks you could make in your rookie drafts. He has almost no real flaws. The only arguments people use against him (he's a RB, he's a gimmick, he's raw, he's a product of a system) all stem from his college usage and not from any actual deficiencies in his game.

 

[MDPapi]

I really haven't liked Gator WR's lately but I'm starting to come around. I was impressed with him at his pro day. I wouldn't use him as a RB but perhaps a slash type roll could work.

Normally I would agree. NFL. Gator. Wide Receiver. They should never be in the same sentence. But Harvin is such a great athlete that if he lands in the right place with the right coaches and system, he could be a special player. Best skill position player in draft? Maybe not. But really, really good.

 

[massraider]

Pat Kirwan mentioned some personal problems in a nfl.com chat. I found some high school stuff, but nothing since. Anyone heard anything?From NFLDS:

Character: Harvin has made a conscious effort to stay out of the spotlight at Florida. He had a series of run-ins during his high school days that had the Florida staff worrying about his character (first Virginia player banned this century from athletic competition during his prep days).

 

[jwb]

Well, I agree with you, EBF, but also think bringing up CJ3 is legit. Harvin ran the ball - well - in college. Much more than a typical wideout would. His body of work at WR is small, but decent enough that he passes my (admittedly amateur) eye test. And from what I hear, he wowed at WR on his pro day.

You mention 3-4 carries a game - that's 2-3 more than a typical "WR who can run" would get. And he's already shown he's not just an end-around guy. I can see him actually lining up in the backfield a lot. Likely get a lot of passes from there, but a few runs too (3-4 would be ideal - just enough to keep a defense off balance).

Harvin is one of those guys you want to get the ball. The team who drafts him will do exactly that.

 

[trader jake]

This notion of "ideal size" is basically bunk and should generally be ignored.

In the grand scheme of the NFL the wideout position isn't important enough to justify a 1st round selection unless the player has it all...and Harvin doesn't. Too many busts, too many headaches, and too many of them are dependent on factors outside their control. Add in the steep learning curve for the position and it's a perfect storm of missed opportunity costs for GM's.Basically, I don't believe Percy Harvin is worth a 1st round selection. In the NFL or fantasy ball.

We're not talking about where he'll go in the NFL draft. We're talking about his FF prospects. You say he doesn't have it all. What exactly is his game missing? I don't see any glaring holes myself.

Where Percy Harvin is selected in the NFL Draft directly effects his fantasy football production. It can also be a sign of what NFL GM's expect from him and how much leeway the team that selects him would be willing to give him should he struggle early. If he goes mid 1st to the Jets he'll get every opportunity to be successful but if he goes early 2nd to the Rams I'm guessing his FF stock will drop dramatically.One of my big concerns with Harvin is his relative inexperience playing wide receiver, especially against more physical defenders. He isn't exactly a polished product at wideout and his frame appears smaller to me that other players of similar height and weight. No doubt he's explosive but I'm guessing that next gear won't be as evident against the freaks patrolling defense backfields of the NFL. If the offensive coordinator has to be overly creative to get production out of a wideout he isn't worth a selection in the 1st round.

 

[EBF]

One of my big concerns with Harvin is his relative inexperience playing wide receiver, especially against more physical defenders. He isn't exactly a polished product at wideout and

What skills does he lack that you would hope to see from a WR prospect?Is there any good reason to believe that he lacks the ability to run crisp routes and get open?

his frame appears smaller to me that other players of similar height and weight.

This is just silly. You said he's too small. I provided a list of players with similar dimensions. Now you say he "appears smaller" than these players. Gimme a break. Size is a non-factor here. And FWIW, he's pretty jacked up.http://media.photobucket.com/image/percy%2...vinpercy_11.jpg

No doubt he's explosive but I'm guessing that next gear won't be as evident against the freaks patrolling defense backfields of the NFL.

This is true for every WR prospect in the draft. Competition is tougher for everyone once they get to the NFL. Nevertheless, Harvin still has athletic gifts on par with many of the best WRs in the league. If he's deficient, he's no more deficient than guys like Steve Smith and Santana Moss.

If the offensive coordinator has to be overly creative to get production out of a wideout he isn't worth a selection in the 1st round.

Why are you assuming that his offensive coordinator will have to "be overly creative" to get production out of him? He's the same size as Laveranues Coles, Santonio Holmes, Eddie Royal, and Santana Moss. He has very similar speed and athletic gifts. So if those guys are able to routinely get open and make plays in the passing game, why won't Harvin be able to do the same? What skill does he lack that they possess? As far as I can tell, the answer is none. Your post illustrates a lot of the errors that I think people are making with Harvin. They look at his college career and say, "Well he didn't play much WR and he got a lot of touches on gimmicky plays out of the backfield, therefore he's not a good WR prospect." Just because you haven't done something doesn't mean you don't have the ability to do it.

Here's a quick analogy to demonstrate this point. I've never jogged in place for two minutes consecutively. Does this mean I'm incapable of jogging in place for two minutes consecutively? No. I could do it right now if someone asked me to. Why? Because I possess the physical skills needed to perform the task. I've never done it simply because I've never been compelled to.

That's sort of how I feel about Harvin. No one has ever asked him to be a full-time WR. Does this mean he is incapable of it? No. By all appearances, he has the physical ability and football skills needed to be effective as a full-time wideout. He simply hasn't done it yet because no one has asked him to. When he gets to the NFL, he'll almost certainly be funneled into a more traditional WR role, where he'll probably thrive.

It all goes back to what I said about looking past the system and evaluating the athlete in a vacuum. When you do that, it's hard not to be optimistic about Harvin's chances. He's a dynamite football player with a top shelf set of athletic gifts. The only knocks on his game (aside from durability) stem from things that he had no control over (being used as a gadget player instead of a full-time WR, failure of previous Florida WRs, product of a system). IMO, people who harp on these points can't see the forest from the trees. This guy is a very good prospect.