I think Percy Harvin is the best skill position player in this draft (1 Viewer)

[LawFitz]

Harvin will not have problems with getting jammed at the LOS. He is short but is not small. Dude is very strong and exceptionally tough. Playing RB in college no doubt both resulted from and added to this dimension of his skill set.

When I compared him to Welker and Smiff, I forgot about Eddie Royal. ER is also very similar. But I think Harvin is even more explosive and will be more of a playmaker.

EBF's point is sound and is being too easily dismissed. Had Harvin been used exclusively as a WR he'd be considered an elite WR prospect right now. If you watched him in college you'd agree. When he was put in that role he always came through with crisp routes and exceptional ball hawking. But he was too much of a weapon to use exclusively in that role.

Year one he will be a slot guy but over time he will be the type of player who will play the X, the Y or the Z on any given play moving all over the field to exploit mismatches. He may even play 3rd down RB at times IMO and obviously he will be used as a wildcat for as long as that gimmick continues to work.

 

[jurb26]

What position will he play? WR. The people looking at him as a RB/WR hybrid are letting his role in Florida's gimmicky offense cloud their analysis.

Do you even realize that you could be one of these such people just as much as the ones you are trying to call out?

I'm not letting his college usage cloud my opinion of his skills. Quite the opposite. I'm looking past the gimmicky offense and evaluating the athlete in a vacuum. Here's what I see:- He's well built for the WR position at 5'11" and 192 pounds. This is the exact same size as Laveranues Coles and Santonio Holmes. It's within 5 pounds of numerous productive starting NFL receivers.- He passes the combine test with flying colors. Great 40 time. Great 10 yard time. 19 reps of 225 pounds on the bench. 37.5" vertical and 10'1" broad jump. He's fast, strong, and explosive. - He's an impact player on the football field. He's a smooth runner with good speed and an excellent burst. Though he didn't get as many opportunities at WR as other players in this class, he looks good running routes and he catches the ball cleanly. - He was impressive enough to earn a consensus 1st-2nd round grade. When the dust settles, he'll be a high draft pick. I really don't see much NOT to like here. This kid was touted as one of the best football players in the country when he was a high school senior. He produced in many capacities in the most difficult conference in the country. He has all of the physical skills that you look for at the position. On the field, he's a standout player who seamlessly translates his athletic gifts into football success. He's going to be a high draft pick, proving that the NFL scouts are high on his ability. There are almost no negatives with Harvin. I don't think he has quite as much upside as some of the other WRs in this draft, but he looks like one of the safest picks you could make in your rookie drafts. He has almost no real flaws. The only arguments people use against him (he's a RB, he's a gimmick, he's raw, he's a product of a system) all stem from his college usage and not from any actual deficiencies in his game.

Based on this you should absolutely love DHB. He does all of these things better than Harvin, is faster and bigger. Let alone actually played in a true WR role throughout college. I know you don't why is that? If any WR in this class is being undervalued because of his college situation it is DHB, not Harvin. I also know enough to not even bother debating this with you as you'll never concede any points against the guys you love.

 

[FreeBaGeL]

Based on this you should absolutely love DHB. He does all of these things better than Harvin, is faster and bigger. Let alone actually played in a true WR role throughout college. I know you don't why is that? If any WR in this class is being undervalued because of his college situation it is DHB, not Harvin. I also know enough to not even bother debating this with you as you'll never concede any points against the guys you love.

That's the thing though, I don't think DHB does any of the pure WR stuff better than Harvin, he was just asked to do it more often. Harvin is more natural catching the ball with his hands, better adjusts to the ball in the air, and is better at going and getting it in the air (he's more aggressive at going and getting the ball and knows when to do it and when to let it come to him, which is one of the biggest things I look for in a WR). People just don't realize because they're fixated on the highlights they see of him running the ball out of the backfield.

 

[EBF]

Yea, I think Harvin is a better route runner and hands catcher than DHB. DHB has a higher ceiling, but is more of a bust risk.

FWIW, I had Harvin at 5 and DHB at 7 in my latest rankings, so it's not like I see a huge difference.

I defend Harvin because the points people bring up against him don't ring true to me.

 

[Football Jones]

Harvin is raw, & far from polished as a WR. I see very little that tells me he can be a difference-maker at either the WR or RB positions. Not saying he can't do it, but just way too much projecting to make me feel comfortable spending a high rookie pick on this kid.

Sure...he's an elite athlete, but in the end, that means squat by itself. His best chance to excel in the NFL will be playing a role similar to what he did in college (hybrid WR/RB). Teams know that, & it's the main reason he'll be drafted so high.

His FF value? Hard to say until we find out where he goes & what his role will be, but there's no doubt in my mind he'll be much more valuable in the real world (as opposed to FF).

 

[EBF]

Sure, he's an elite athlete, but in the end, that means squat by itself. His best chance to excel in the NFL will be playing a role similar to what he did in college (hybrid WR/RB). Teams know that, & it's the main reason he'll be drafted so high.

Eh. I don't buy that. How many hybrid WR/RB/QB players are there in the NFL right now?Gimmicks work in college. Not so much in the NFL. There's no way to know with 100% certainty, but my prediction is that he'll settle in as a full-time WR in the NFL.

 

[Football Jones]

Sure, he's an elite athlete, but in the end, that means squat by itself. His best chance to excel in the NFL will be playing a role similar to what he did in college (hybrid WR/RB). Teams know that, & it's the main reason he'll be drafted so high.

Eh. I don't buy that. How many hybrid WR/RB/QB players are there in the NFL right now?Gimmicks work in college. Not so much in the NFL. There's no way to know with 100% certainty, but my prediction is that he'll settle in as a full-time WR in the NFL.

Without the gimmicky role at Florida (playing some RB), he definitely wouldn't be drafted as high, IMO. Obviously, I don't know for sure, but yeah, I believe most NFL teams have a hybrid role in mind for him (to some degree, anyway). In the end, I can't see Harvin as anything more than a slot receiver with some RB sprinkled in. He might even be pretty effective doing it, but I'm real leery of his FF value matching his ADP.

 

[EBF]

I believe without the gimmicky role at Florida (playing some RB), he definitely wouldn't be drafted as high. Obviously, I don't know for sure, but yeah, I think most NFL teams have a hybrid role in mind for him (to some degree, anyway).

It's impossible to know how his usage affected his draft stock. Had he been a full-time WR in a conventional passing offense, he might actually be a higher pick like Lee Evans and Santana Moss were. As for the role he'll play in the NFL, I highly doubt he'll see significant time at RB. Florida runs a unique offense that employs speedy WRs as RBs. They did it with Harvin and a couple of the other guys on the roster like Jeff Demps. It works at the amateur level against inferior athletes and schemes, but it's not a common tactic in the NFL. Even with the success Chris Johnson is having, I don't think teams look at a guy who's 5'11" 192 pounds and think RB. That's WR size. Generally, the trend for skill players making the transition from NCAA to NFL is to become more specialized. Look at guys like Anquan Boldin, Michael Robinson, and Devin Hester. They contributed at multiple positions in college, but once they got to the NFL, they concentrated more on one specific role. The NFL looks at college athletes and funnels them into the position that best suits their skill set. You just don't see a lot of guys playing slash type roles, even guys who were versatile performers in college. Harvin may have been a dangerous weapon out of the backfield in the SEC, but his NFL living will most likely be made on the outside against cornerbacks and safeties.

In the end, I can't see Harvin as anything more than a slot receiver with some RB sprinkled in. He might even be pretty effective doing it, but I'm real leery of his FF value matching his ADP.

Why do you think he'll be limited to a slot role? Why don't you think he'll be able to play outside?A few posters have mentioned the slot as his destiny. If he's big enough, strong enough, and fast enough to play outside, I don't see why he'll be relegated to the slot.

 

[jurb26]

Based on this you should absolutely love DHB. He does all of these things better than Harvin, is faster and bigger. Let alone actually played in a true WR role throughout college. I know you don't why is that? If any WR in this class is being undervalued because of his college situation it is DHB, not Harvin. I also know enough to not even bother debating this with you as you'll never concede any points against the guys you love.

That's the thing though, I don't think DHB does any of the pure WR stuff better than Harvin, he was just asked to do it more often. Harvin is more natural catching the ball with his hands, better adjusts to the ball in the air, and is better at going and getting it in the air (he's more aggressive at going and getting the ball and knows when to do it and when to let it come to him, which is one of the biggest things I look for in a WR). People just don't realize because they're fixated on the highlights they see of him running the ball out of the backfield.

I don't believe any of this to be true and something tells me if DHB played at UF and Harvin at Maryland neither would you or EBF.

 

[Football Jones]

I believe without the gimmicky role at Florida (playing some RB), he definitely wouldn't be drafted as high. Obviously, I don't know for sure, but yeah, I think most NFL teams have a hybrid role in mind for him (to some degree, anyway).

It's impossible to know how his usage affected his draft stock. Had he been a full-time WR in a conventional passing offense, he might actually be a higher pick like Lee Evans and Santana Moss were. As for the role he'll play in the NFL, I highly doubt he'll see significant time at RB. Florida runs a unique offense that employs speedy WRs as RBs. They did it with Harvin and a couple of the other guys on the roster like Jeff Demps. It works at the amateur level against inferior athletes and schemes, but it's not a common tactic in the NFL. Even with the success Chris Johnson is having, I don't think teams look at a guy who's 5'11" 192 pounds and think RB. That's WR size. Generally, the trend for skill players making the transition from NCAA to NFL is to become more specialized. Look at guys like Anquan Boldin, Michael Robinson, and Devin Hester. They contributed at multiple positions in college, but once they got to the NFL, they concentrated more on one specific role. The NFL looks at college athletes and funnels them into the position that best suits their skill set. You just don't see a lot of guys playing slash type roles, even guys who were versatile performers in college. Harvin may have been a dangerous weapon out of the backfield in the SEC, but his NFL living will most likely be made on the outside against cornerbacks and safeties.

In the end, I can't see Harvin as anything more than a slot receiver with some RB sprinkled in. He might even be pretty effective doing it, but I'm real leery of his FF value matching his ADP.

Why do you think he'll be limited to a slot role? Why don't you think he'll be able to play outside?A few posters have mentioned the slot as his destiny. If he's big enough, strong enough, and fast enough to play outside, I don't see why he'll be relegated to the slot.

Along with myself, I believe many people leery of Harvin simply don't believe he has (or will have) the skills to be a starting-caliber WR. Therefore, if he's not starting (& not on the outside), the slot is pretty much his ideal position. Playing the WR3 role would also allow him to be used as a hybrid RB more effectively.

 

[Cookiemonster]

All I've got to say, is that if Harvin were drafted by say, Indy... I'd be trying to buy a 1.04 or so draft pick. His short-area quicks are so elite, that he very likely will have a career path similar to Santana Moss. I dissappointing 1st season or two 'till he refines all the nuances of route running, but a skill set tailor-made to explode on the scene when he "gets it." Whether that happens in year 1 (Eddie Royal) or year 3 or 4 (Moss) remains to be seen, but I'm extrememly confident that it will happen.

 

[twitch]

All I've got to say, is that if Harvin were drafted by say, Indy... I'd be trying to buy a 1.04 or so draft pick. His short-area quicks are so elite, that he very likely will have a career path similar to Santana Moss. I dissappointing 1st season or two 'till he refines all the nuances of route running, but a skill set tailor-made to explode on the scene when he "gets it." Whether that happens in year 1 (Eddie Royal) or year 3 or 4 (Moss) remains to be seen, but I'm extrememly confident that it will happen.

You better believe it. I have a hard time understanding why guys dont think he's capable of becoming a great WR. I credit Harvin for everything he did at Florida because he completely bought into what Meyer asked of him. He played some RB simply because he was just that good. And really, who can argue with the results? He played all over the field for 3 years, and helped lead that team to 2 titles. I mean the guy was the MVP of the SEC title game his 1st year. What freshman is doing that?

He's one of the safest picks in the draft this year, imo. And Im praying to god he falls into the 20s so NE alteast has a shot at him. You put him in that O with Moss and Welker? I'll stop. But I think he'll be drafted earlier than that. I think he's gonna rise up boards similarly to Chris Johnson, who probably rose a full round in a month. Harvin is just too much of the complete package, with the skills, the tenacity, the football IQ. God, dont let him go to some team like the Colts. It'll be a lot of from guys like me for atleast a few years.

 

[Football Jones]

To clarify my stance on Harvin, I'm not saying he can't be a starter at the WR position in the NFL. I simply believe there's WAY too much projecting to make me feel comfortable spending a high rookie pick on him. He'll very likely be long gone before I'd consider taking him.

I do feel it's an enormous stretch to assume he'll be an elite WR, tho. Can't see it. I think he could possibly excel as a slot receiver/hybrid RB, but like I said, I'm real leery of his FF value matching his ADP.

 

[ChuckLiddell]

To clarify my stance on Harvin, I'm not saying he can't be a starter at the WR position in the NFL. I simply believe there's WAY too much projecting to make me feel comfortable spending a high rookie pick on him. He'll very likely be long gone before I'd consider taking him.

I do feel it's an enormous stretch to assume he'll be an elite WR, tho. Can't see it. I think he could possibly excel as a slot receiver/hybrid RB, but like I said, I'm real leery of his FF value matching his ADP.

Do you think late first round is too early to pick him? That is where it seems like he will go. After:Crabtree

Maclin

Moreno

Wells

For sure, then possibly also after:

DHB

Stafford

McCoy

D.Brown

Britt (?)

Nicks (?)

Do you see him in the 8-12 range, or do you feel he is too risky for the first round alltogether?

 

[Football Jones]

To clarify my stance on Harvin, I'm not saying he can't be a starter at the WR position in the NFL. I simply believe there's WAY too much projecting to make me feel comfortable spending a high rookie pick on him. He'll very likely be long gone before I'd consider taking him.

I do feel it's an enormous stretch to assume he'll be an elite WR, tho. Can't see it. I think he could possibly excel as a slot receiver/hybrid RB, but like I said, I'm real leery of his FF value matching his ADP.

Do you think late first round is too early to pick him? That is where it seems like he will go. After:Crabtree

Maclin

Moreno

Wells

For sure, then possibly also after:

DHB

Stafford

McCoy

D.Brown

Britt (?)

Nicks (?)

Do you see him in the 8-12 range, or do you feel he is too risky for the first round alltogether?

I wouldn't take Harvin in the 1st round. 2nd round is where I'd start thinking about it, depending on where he goes, intended role (if we can even get a clue before our rookie drafts), my team needs, etc. If I had to guess now, I doubt I'd take Harvin before 2.5 or so, but like I said, it just depends.

 

[bcr8f]

I wouldn't take Harvin in the 1st round. 2nd round is where I'd start thinking about it, depending on where he goes, intended role (if we can even get a clue before our rookie drafts), my team needs, etc. If I had to guess now, I doubt I'd take Harvin before 2.5 or so, but like I said, it just depends.

I have the 1.01(IDP)1.041.162.01 2.04I may take him at 2.04 if he's still there.

 

[FreeBaGeL]

I wouldn't take Harvin in the 1st round. 2nd round is where I'd start thinking about it, depending on where he goes, intended role (if we can even get a clue before our rookie drafts), my team needs, etc. If I had to guess now, I doubt I'd take Harvin before 2.5 or so, but like I said, it just depends.

I have the 1.01(IDP)1.041.162.01 2.04I may take him at 2.04 if he's still there.

He won't make it past the middle of the 1st in a 12 team league so don't worry, you won't have to make that choice.

 

[anakin]

No way Harvin is there at 2.04 or on the second round unless you are in an 8 or 10 team dynasty league. Crabtree, Wells, Moreno, Maclin, D Brown, McCoy are all in front of him. Maybe you can make the case for Stafford, but DHB, Britt, Nicks, and Greene have their own set of question marks. With IDP Curry and 1-2 other defensive players may have first round grades. I like the kid and I own the 1.05, 1.06, 1.08, 1.11 and 1.14. in one dynasty league and he will be on my mind in the top eight.

 

[Football Jones]

Strangely, I'd like to feel comfortable enough to take Harvin in the 1st round of one particular PPR league I'm in (I have several 1st-rounders). I actually want to like him. Obviously, his upside is what's intriguing.

In the end, I believe he'll go before I could pull the trigger. I don't hate him as a prospect, but feel he's overrated. Never say never, tho. I'll definitely keep my options open in the league I mentioned.

 

[EBF]

Another thing to consider is that this isn't a great draft crop. It's not like this group is laden with can't-miss players. Moreno is a borderline athlete who can hardly crack 4.6 at under 210 pounds. McCoy bombed his pro day. Wells is a softie. Greene runs a 4.6. Brown is a bit of an enigma. DHB had weak production in college and is a suspect route runner. Maclin may be a better return man than WR. Nicks lacks top speed and quickness. Britt lacks burst and has streaky hands.

Given the lack of bankable talent in this class, I would probably peg Harvin as one of the 3-4 safest picks in the group. Those who have expressed doubts about his ability to become a successful NFL WR have yet to cite a single deficiency in his game that will prevent him from making the transition. Is he too slow? Is he too weak? Is he too small? Does he lack quickness? Does he lack innate receiving ability? Why exactly will he fail? No one has been able to answer that question thus far and I think when you look at the overall package of skills Harvin offers, you see that there's nothing missing besides experience.

 

[FUBAR]

Strangely, I'd like to feel comfortable enough to take Harvin in the 1st round of one particular PPR league I'm in (I have several 1st-rounders). I actually want to like him. Obviously, his upside is what's intriguing.

In the end, I believe he'll go before I could pull the trigger. I don't hate him as a prospect, but feel he's overrated. Never say never, tho. I'll definitely keep my options open in the league I mentioned.

That's kind of how I feel here. I doubt I'll end up with him on any team, but he has that shock factor that makes me want to own him in case he explodes. I just don't have any mid 1sts, so he's pretty much a non-factor in my draft plans (except that he'll push a player down to me)

 

[Football Jones]

Another thing to consider is that this isn't a great draft crop. It's not like this group is laden with can't-miss players. Moreno is a borderline athlete who can hardly crack 4.6 at under 210 pounds. McCoy bombed his pro day. Wells is a softie. Greene runs a 4.6. Brown is a bit of an enigma. DHB had weak production in college and is a suspect route runner. Maclin may be a better return man than WR. Nicks lacks top speed and quickness. Britt lacks burst and has streaky hands. Given the lack of bankable talent in this class, I would probably peg Harvin as one of the 3-4 safest picks in the group. Those who have expressed doubts about his ability to become a successful NFL WR have yet to cite a single deficiency in his game that will prevent him from making the transition. Is he too slow? Is he too weak? Is he too small? Does he lack quickness? Does he lack innate receiving ability? Why exactly will he fail? No one has been able to answer that question thus far and I think when you look at the overall package of skills Harvin offers, you see that there's nothing missing besides experience.

When I said Harvin was raw & unpolished, that was my short answer (albeit not in detail). Tons of WRs have been quick & strong. It takes specific abilities to be a top WR. Like sinking your hips before making cuts, not rounding cuts, taking no false steps, being deceptive, & on, & on. I haven't see him be consistent enough in the skills which will enable him to be a difference-maker at the WR position in the NFL.The report was he looked good in shorts, but we all know how that goes. He wouldn't even run routes at the Combine. Sure, he's been coached up for his Pro Day, but suiting up & playing in an NFL game is light years from the Pro Day.That said, he's a boom or bust player who could boom. He's no sure thing, IMO, but his elite physical traits will help him. One reason I'm down on him is I continue to get the feeling he'll be used in a hybrid role (at least to some degree), & depending on the situation, that could hurt his FF value. Not a huge concern, but something to consider. I've explained even I would be interested in taking him in leagues where I have multiple 1st round picks, so it's not like I hate him. Simply put, I believe he's overrated.

 

[EBF]

I think if you watch the following highlight package and just focus on the plays where he's running routes and catching passes, he looks very natural. Now obviously highlights aren't going to tell the whole story, but what you see is a fluid athlete who runs crisp routes and snags the ball cleanly with his hands. One thing I like about him is that he has a short, smooth stride. People compare him to Ted Ginn, but Ginn was a long strider with loping speed. Harvin has much better body proportions and shows a lot more short area quickness and change of direction. Long-legged runners sometimes struggle to gain separation out of breaks because they're not able to gear down as quickly as little guys. Harvin won't have that problem.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=34--XTjboDI

 

[Dinsy Ejotuz]

I think if you watch the following highlight package and just focus on the plays where he's running routes and catching passes, he looks very natural. Now obviously highlights aren't going to tell the whole story, but what you see is a fluid athlete who runs crisp routes and snags the ball cleanly with his hands. One thing I like about him is that he has a short, smooth stride. People compare him to Ted Ginn, but Ginn was a long strider with loping speed. Harvin has much better body proportions and shows a lot more short area quickness and change of direction. Long-legged runners sometimes struggle to gain separation out of breaks because they're not able to gear down as quickly as little guys. Harvin won't have that problem.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=34--XTjboDI

Ok... I just watched five minutes of clips on Harvin and you know what I didn't see? A downfield WR. No outs, no hooks, no double moves - no routes. With the exception of one play from the slot where he made a single cut and split the zone for a touchdown everything was short or effectively uncontested (blown coverage, tipped ball) - and we don't know if he can play the position for which he's presumably being drafted. I actually agree with EBF that Harvin's as decent a bet as anyone not named Crabtree, but there are some big unknowns.

To be honest, he is so explosive, elusive and powerful running the ball I don't know why he's not being looked at as a RB. When I plug his #s in as a RB he pops up as one of a very few players who would be likely to gain significant productive weight as a RB. And if he added 10 pounds he'd be a damn good back.

 

[jurb26]

Another thing to consider is that this isn't a great draft crop. It's not like this group is laden with can't-miss players. Moreno is a borderline athlete who can hardly crack 4.6 at under 210 pounds. McCoy bombed his pro day. Wells is a softie. Greene runs a 4.6. Brown is a bit of an enigma. DHB had weak production in college and is a suspect route runner. Maclin may be a better return man than WR. Nicks lacks top speed and quickness. Britt lacks burst and has streaky hands.

Given the lack of bankable talent in this class, I would probably peg Harvin as one of the 3-4 safest picks in the group. Those who have expressed doubts about his ability to become a successful NFL WR have yet to cite a single deficiency in his game that will prevent him from making the transition. Is he too slow? Is he too weak? Is he too small? Does he lack quickness? Does he lack innate receiving ability? Why exactly will he fail? No one has been able to answer that question thus far and I think when you look at the overall package of skills Harvin offers, you see that there's nothing missing besides experience.

It's comments like this that throw your objectivity out the window IMO. You'll site Harvin's use in college as a positive and claim that those who don't see it that way are getting caught up in his schematic usage. Yet you never bring up the fact that DHB played on a run heavy team with atrocious QB play. DHB ran more true WR routes last year alone than Harvin has in his entire career. Sure DHB has work to do on becoming a better route runner, but Harvin has light-years of work to do. Just because he is a great athlete doesn't mean that those attributes will seamlessly transition into NFL WR or even route running success. I've watched you and others continually post these highlights from youtube on Harvin and I'm sorry, but they just aren't convincing of the point you are trying to make.

 

[jurb26]

I think if you watch the following highlight package and just focus on the plays where he's running routes and catching passes, he looks very natural. Now obviously highlights aren't going to tell the whole story, but what you see is a fluid athlete who runs crisp routes and snags the ball cleanly with his hands. One thing I like about him is that he has a short, smooth stride. People compare him to Ted Ginn, but Ginn was a long strider with loping speed. Harvin has much better body proportions and shows a lot more short area quickness and change of direction. Long-legged runners sometimes struggle to gain separation out of breaks because they're not able to gear down as quickly as little guys. Harvin won't have that problem.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=34--XTjboDI

Ok... I just watched five minutes of clips on Harvin and you know what I didn't see? A downfield WR. No outs, no hooks, no double moves - no routes. With the exception of one play from the slot where he made a single cut and split the zone for a touchdown everything was short or effectively uncontested (blown coverage, tipped ball) - and we don't know if he can play the position for which he's presumably being drafted. I actually agree with EBF that Harvin's as decent a bet as anyone not named Crabtree, but there are some big unknowns.

To be honest, he is so explosive, elusive and powerful running the ball I don't know why he's not being looked at as a RB. FWIW... when I plug his #s in as a RB he pops up one of a very few players who would be likely to gain significant productive weight as a RB. And if he put 10 pounds he'd be a damn good back.

Agreed on all points here. Harvin is a decent bet to be a good NFL player and I've said that all along. It is his fantasy success that is greatly in question.

 

[EBF]

Another thing to consider is that this isn't a great draft crop. It's not like this group is laden with can't-miss players. Moreno is a borderline athlete who can hardly crack 4.6 at under 210 pounds. McCoy bombed his pro day. Wells is a softie. Greene runs a 4.6. Brown is a bit of an enigma. DHB had weak production in college and is a suspect route runner. Maclin may be a better return man than WR. Nicks lacks top speed and quickness. Britt lacks burst and has streaky hands.

Given the lack of bankable talent in this class, I would probably peg Harvin as one of the 3-4 safest picks in the group. Those who have expressed doubts about his ability to become a successful NFL WR have yet to cite a single deficiency in his game that will prevent him from making the transition. Is he too slow? Is he too weak? Is he too small? Does he lack quickness? Does he lack innate receiving ability? Why exactly will he fail? No one has been able to answer that question thus far and I think when you look at the overall package of skills Harvin offers, you see that there's nothing missing besides experience.

It's comments like this that throw your objectivity out the window IMO. You'll site Harvin's use in college as a positive and claim that those who don't see it that way are getting caught up in his schematic usage. Yet you never bring up the fact that DHB played on a run heavy team with atrocious QB play. DHB ran more true WR routes last year alone than Harvin has in his entire career. Sure DHB has work to do on becoming a better route runner, but Harvin has light-years of work to do. Just because he is a great athlete doesn't mean that those attributes will seamlessly transition into NFL WR or even route running success. I've watched you and others continually post these highlights from youtube on Harvin and I'm sorry, but they just aren't convincing of the point you are trying to make.

Like I said earlier, DHB is exactly two spots behind Harvin in my most recent public rankings, so any great disparity in how I view them is a product of your imagination. I never said that those knocks against DHB have convinced me that he's going to fail. However, those are the most common knocks people cite against him (whether they're valid or not). The point of the post was to show that EVERY top prospect in this draft has question marks. Nothing more. That said, I do think Harvin has more potential as a route runner than DHB. Tall receivers sometimes have trouble gaining separation out of breaks because of their long stride. This is something that many scouting reports cite in regards to DHB. Here's a blurb from NFL.com's scouting report:

Might be the draft's most dangerous vertical threat, but offers little else. Long-legged and struggles to generate consistent separation out of his cuts.

IMO, Harvin won't have this problem. He has a very short, fluid stride. With his burst, speed, and quickness, I have no doubt that he'll develop into an effective route runner. All of the physical tools are there.

 

[jurb26]

Another thing to consider is that this isn't a great draft crop. It's not like this group is laden with can't-miss players. Moreno is a borderline athlete who can hardly crack 4.6 at under 210 pounds. McCoy bombed his pro day. Wells is a softie. Greene runs a 4.6. Brown is a bit of an enigma. DHB had weak production in college and is a suspect route runner. Maclin may be a better return man than WR. Nicks lacks top speed and quickness. Britt lacks burst and has streaky hands.

Given the lack of bankable talent in this class, I would probably peg Harvin as one of the 3-4 safest picks in the group. Those who have expressed doubts about his ability to become a successful NFL WR have yet to cite a single deficiency in his game that will prevent him from making the transition. Is he too slow? Is he too weak? Is he too small? Does he lack quickness? Does he lack innate receiving ability? Why exactly will he fail? No one has been able to answer that question thus far and I think when you look at the overall package of skills Harvin offers, you see that there's nothing missing besides experience.

It's comments like this that throw your objectivity out the window IMO. You'll site Harvin's use in college as a positive and claim that those who don't see it that way are getting caught up in his schematic usage. Yet you never bring up the fact that DHB played on a run heavy team with atrocious QB play. DHB ran more true WR routes last year alone than Harvin has in his entire career. Sure DHB has work to do on becoming a better route runner, but Harvin has light-years of work to do. Just because he is a great athlete doesn't mean that those attributes will seamlessly transition into NFL WR or even route running success. I've watched you and others continually post these highlights from youtube on Harvin and I'm sorry, but they just aren't convincing of the point you are trying to make.

Like I said earlier, DHB is exactly two spots behind Harvin in my most recent public rankings, so any great disparity in how I view them is a product of your imagination. I never said that those knocks against DHB have convinced me that he's going to fail. However, those are the most common knocks people cite against him (whether they're valid or not). The point of the post was to show that EVERY top prospect in this draft has question marks. Nothing more. That said, I do think Harvin has more potential as a route runner than DHB. Tall receivers sometimes have trouble gaining separation out of breaks because of their long stride. This is something that many scouting reports cite in regards to DHB. Here's a blurb from NFL.com's scouting report:

Might be the draft's most dangerous vertical threat, but offers little else. Long-legged and struggles to generate consistent separation out of his cuts.

IMO, Harvin won't have this problem. He has a very short, fluid stride. With his burst, speed, and quickness, I have no doubt that he'll develop into an effective route runner. All of the physical tools are there.

Doesn't sound like DHB has struggled with anything of late:

Terps’ Heyward-Bey puts on a show in positional drills

Posted: March 11th, 2009 | NFL.com Staff | Tags: Darrius Heyward-Bey, Maryland, Moises Fokou

Darrius Heyward-Bey works out during the 2009 NFL Scouting Combine. (Michael Conroy/AP)

Darrius Heyward-Bey works out during the 2009 NFL Scouting Combine. (Michael Conroy / Associated Press)

The headliner at Maryland’s pro day was Darrius Heyward-Bey (6-1 5/8, 212 pounds), who drew a bunch of receiver coaches, including the New York Jets’ Henry Ellard.

After running the fastest 40-yard dash at the combine (4.30 seconds), Heyward-Bey opted not to do workout drills again Wednesday. Instead, he focused his attention on the position drills and nailed that portion of the workout. He’s a smooth runner and is adept at catching the ball.

Heyward-Bey was one of 24 players who worked out in front of 50 scouts indoors on FieldTurf. (Heyward-Bey ranks fifth in Mike Mayock’s position rankings.)

 

[Weiner Dog]

Coming out of college, I believe Harvin is this generation's Desmond Howard. If you watch college tape of both players, you will see they both:

1) Have similar builds (albeit, it's difficult to ignore Harvin's "guns")

2) Run with the same forward lean

3) Have the same ability to one-cut w/o slowing (even though Harvin is more of a strider in the open field)

I do believe Harvin is a better all-around athlete than Howard, while Howard was a better college football player. In Howard's defense, smaller WR's have an easier time in today's NFL with the WCO and inability of CB's to jam after 5 yards.

Howard:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=phxrqPnejxk

Harvin:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hE-4-bzH9WI

Howard was largely a disappointment in the NFL (123 catches for 1597 yards) as a WR. Time will only tell if Harvin can expand his skill-set to the NFL game. I think the best way to draft Harvin for dynasty FF purposes is not to reach for him. Sure...if he falls to you, take him. I just believe his longer learning curve will allow you to acquire him cheaper in two years. Plus, you won't waste a roster spot waiting for him to marinate.

Harvin will most likely be a terror on special teams his first year or two. His ability to adapt to an NFL offense will rely on his study habits...not ability to play football and certainly not athletic ability.

 

[Football Jones]

I've pretty much said all I want to say about Harvin. I just have one thing I want to point out. Simply having the physical traits for being a top WR doesn't mean a player will excel. If it was only a matter of learning the skills needed to become a top WR, lots of guys would be studs.

Despite elite physical traits, many, many WR prospects fail. Why? Because they don't have certain innate (God-given) position-specific abilities. You can only be coached up so far. Ideally, you want WR prospects to show most of those abilities as a collegian...& Harvin hasn't done that, IMO.

That's where projecting comes in. In Harvin's case, I'm not comfortable enough with his skill set (as it stands now) to spend a high rookie pick on him. I also worry about how a pro team will use him & if it'll hurt his FF value. Despite his athletic prowess, there's a lot of "ifs" to consider when evaluating this kid.

I might take a chance under the right circumstances, but I still believe he's overrated.

 

[twitch]

I've pretty much said all I want to say about Harvin. I just have one thing I want to point out. Simply having the physical traits for being a top WR doesn't mean a player will excel. If it was only a matter of learning the skills needed to become a top WR, lots of guys would be studs.Despite elite physical traits, many, many WR prospects fail. Why? Because they don't have certain innate (God-given) position-specific abilities. You can only be coached up so far. Ideally, you want WR prospects to show most of those abilities as a collegian...& Harvin hasn't done that, IMO. That's where projecting comes in. In Harvin's case, I'm not comfortable enough with his skill set (as it stands now) to spend a high rookie pick on him. I also worry about how a pro team will use him & if it'll hurt his FF value. Despite his athletic prowess, there's a lot of "ifs" to consider when evaluating this kid.I might take a chance under the right circumstances, but I still believe he's overrated.

Just curious. Youre not an Oklahoma fan are you?? Ya think Iglesias has some of those "innate(God-given) position-specific abilities"?? Thats some of the funniest stuff Ive heard here in a while.

 

[FreeBaGeL]

I've pretty much said all I want to say about Harvin. I just have one thing I want to point out. Simply having the physical traits for being a top WR doesn't mean a player will excel. If it was only a matter of learning the skills needed to become a top WR, lots of guys would be studs.Despite elite physical traits, many, many WR prospects fail. Why? Because they don't have certain innate (God-given) position-specific abilities. You can only be coached up so far. Ideally, you want WR prospects to show most of those abilities as a collegian...& Harvin hasn't done that, IMO.

That's not really the point being argued here though, and this is what I've been trying to get across, and I believe EBF has too.When you look at Harvin, you see a guy with great athletic ability that may or may not be able to learn how to translate that into becoming a good receiver.When I look at Harvin, I see a guy with great athletic ability that is also a very good receiver. You say that Harvin hasn't shown those "WR abilities" as a collegian. I disagree. When he was asked to be a receiver, he was, and he demonstrated all of that to me. He just wasn't asked to do it as often as other guys ranked around him. I've said this before and I'll say it again, Harvin has great hands, and plays the ball as well in the air as any other prospect I've seen this year. If he's running a post and the ball is underthrown, he fights back to it and makes a play on the ball. A guy like DHB just kind of keeps on running and reaches backwards.It's funny actually. That big play that Harvin had on the highlight video above gets laughed off as a lucky tip, but that's only something that someone that didn't see him play much would say. That exact play happened several times (tipped pass that he took for a long touchdown), and several other times in a similar scenario he went back to the ball instead of waiting on it. Throughout his career he has done very well with his judgement with the ball in the air, when to let it come to him and when to come back and fight for it. He has natural WR instincts, catches the ball naturally with his hands, and is aggressive back to the ball when he needs to be. He's not an elite physical athlete that can become a good WR, he's a good WR that also has elite physical tools.It's also worth noting that he was asked to go deep much less this year because Florida had another good deep threat this (Louis Murphy) and as such could keep Harvin fresher for those carries out of the backfield. Watch some tape of his first two years and you'll see much better the way he adjusts to the ball in the air when he's downfield, which at the time was surprising to me that a supposed "speed" guy was so good at coming back and playing the ball like he was big guy.

 

[bcr8f]

I wouldn't take Harvin in the 1st round. 2nd round is where I'd start thinking about it, depending on where he goes, intended role (if we can even get a clue before our rookie drafts), my team needs, etc. If I had to guess now, I doubt I'd take Harvin before 2.5 or so, but like I said, it just depends.

I have the 1.01(IDP)1.04

1.16

2.01

2.04

I may take him at 2.04 if he's still there.

He won't make it past the middle of the 1st in a 12 team league so don't worry, you won't have to make that choice.

It is IDP but that's fine wit me. I need to avoid those players who rise quickly before the draft like Vernon Davis and Chad Jackson.

Strangely, I'd like to feel comfortable enough to take Harvin in the 1st round of one particular PPR league I'm in (I have several 1st-rounders). I actually want to like him. Obviously, his upside is what's intriguing.

In the end, I believe he'll go before I could pull the trigger. I don't hate him as a prospect, but feel he's overrated. Never say never, tho. I'll definitely keep my options open in the league I mentioned.

If he's there at 1.16(doubtful I know) I could get trade value out of the pick.

 

[Football Jones]

I've pretty much said all I want to say about Harvin. I just have one thing I want to point out. Simply having the physical traits for being a top WR doesn't mean a player will excel. If it was only a matter of learning the skills needed to become a top WR, lots of guys would be studs.Despite elite physical traits, many, many WR prospects fail. Why? Because they don't have certain innate (God-given) position-specific abilities. You can only be coached up so far. Ideally, you want WR prospects to show most of those abilities as a collegian...& Harvin hasn't done that, IMO. That's where projecting comes in. In Harvin's case, I'm not comfortable enough with his skill set (as it stands now) to spend a high rookie pick on him. I also worry about how a pro team will use him & if it'll hurt his FF value. Despite his athletic prowess, there's a lot of "ifs" to consider when evaluating this kid.I might take a chance under the right circumstances, but I still believe he's overrated.

Just curious. Youre not an Oklahoma fan are you?? Ya think Iglesias has some of those "innate(God-given) position-specific abilities"?? Thats some of the funniest stuff Ive heard here in a while.

I'm not quite sure why that's funny, but to each his own. I'm also not sure why it matters where I'm from, but yes, I'm from Oklahoma & I'm a fan of all the in-state teams. As far as Iglesias, I'm not super-high on him. There's a very good chance I won't end up with him on any of my dynasty teams.

 

[Football Jones]

I've pretty much said all I want to say about Harvin. I just have one thing I want to point out. Simply having the physical traits for being a top WR doesn't mean a player will excel. If it was only a matter of learning the skills needed to become a top WR, lots of guys would be studs.Despite elite physical traits, many, many WR prospects fail. Why? Because they don't have certain innate (God-given) position-specific abilities. You can only be coached up so far. Ideally, you want WR prospects to show most of those abilities as a collegian...& Harvin hasn't done that, IMO.

That's not really the point being argued here though, and this is what I've been trying to get across, and I believe EBF has too.When you look at Harvin, you see a guy with great athletic ability that may or may not be able to learn how to translate that into becoming a good receiver.When I look at Harvin, I see a guy with great athletic ability that is also a very good receiver. You say that Harvin hasn't shown those "WR abilities" as a collegian. I disagree. When he was asked to be a receiver, he was, and he demonstrated all of that to me. He just wasn't asked to do it as often as other guys ranked around him. I've said this before and I'll say it again, Harvin has great hands, and plays the ball as well in the air as any other prospect I've seen this year. If he's running a post and the ball is underthrown, he fights back to it and makes a play on the ball. A guy like DHB just kind of keeps on running and reaches backwards.It's funny actually. That big play that Harvin had on the highlight video above gets laughed off as a lucky tip, but that's only something that someone that didn't see him play much would say. That exact play happened several times (tipped pass that he took for a long touchdown), and several other times in a similar scenario he went back to the ball instead of waiting on it. Throughout his career he has done very well with his judgement with the ball in the air, when to let it come to him and when to come back and fight for it. He has natural WR instincts, catches the ball naturally with his hands, and is aggressive back to the ball when he needs to be. He's not an elite physical athlete that can become a good WR, he's a good WR that also has elite physical tools.It's also worth noting that he was asked to go deep much less this year because Florida had another good deep threat this (Louis Murphy) and as such could keep Harvin fresher for those carries out of the backfield. Watch some tape of his first two years and you'll see much better the way he adjusts to the ball in the air when he's downfield, which at the time was surprising to me that a supposed "speed" guy was so good at coming back and playing the ball like he was big guy.

If you're telling me he's a "very good receiver" right now, then I totally disagree. BTW, it's exactly what's being discussed here. I, along with others, believe he has a long, LONG way to go before he can excel at the NFL level. I think Harvin is still wet behind the ears (as far as the WR position goes).Personally, I believe those high on Harvin are at least somewhat blinded by his college production. That said, I've explained why he's an intriguing prospect, & even the kind of player I might take under the right circumstances (like having multiple 1st round picks, for instance). In the end, tho, he's overrated, IMO.On the bright side, it would be rather boring if everyone had the same opinion.

 

[CanadianNFLJunkie]

I'll ask the same question that I've asked others before, had Eddie Royal and D-Jack had gone to Minnesota or Buffalo or any other crappy team with a crappy QB, would they have posted the same type of numbers? I'd say no. Harvin is supposed to go as high as 10 or so to 23 or so. Personally I'd think he'd be a welcome addition to an already establishing pass offensive type of team. But Harvin is smallish and not many smallish players can take a pounding and last in this league. Sure Steve Smith and a few others might be the exception, but look at other dwarf-like midget players.

 

[bcr8f]

I'll ask the same question that I've asked others before, had Eddie Royal and D-Jack had gone to Minnesota or Buffalo or any other crappy team with a crappy QB, would they have posted the same type of numbers? I'd say no. Harvin is supposed to go as high as 10 or so to 23 or so. Personally I'd think he'd be a welcome addition to an already establishing pass offensive type of team. But Harvin is smallish and not many smallish players can take a pounding and last in this league. Sure Steve Smith and a few others might be the exception, but look at other dwarf-like midget players.

Steve Smith is short but he isn't small. He very muscular and strong. Harvin may be a better return man/Reggie Bush type or slot receiver. The last Gator WR to be a pro bowler was in 1985(Wes Chandler)

 

[Cookiemonster]

I'll ask the same question that I've asked others before, had Eddie Royal and D-Jack had gone to Minnesota or Buffalo or any other crappy team with a crappy QB, would they have posted the same type of numbers? I'd say no. Harvin is supposed to go as high as 10 or so to 23 or so. Personally I'd think he'd be a welcome addition to an already establishing pass offensive type of team. But Harvin is smallish and not many smallish players can take a pounding and last in this league. Sure Steve Smith and a few others might be the exception, but look at other dwarf-like midget players.

Neither is a dwarf. I guess you thought Mike Tyson was a little dwarf-like midget too @ a (very generous) 5'11" stature. I've seen some places list him as short as 5'9 and heard from others who had been around him that say 5'9 was still being generous. We're talking little midgets like Maurice Jones Drew, huh! Go see if you can get Harvin's Path to the Draft video clips - they should be on YouTube. I might be bigger than him, but I sure as hell wouldn't want to get hit by him. The guy is rocked.Harvin is built very much like Steve Smith. A little RB!!! Harvin has played quite a bit of RB!!! He's also caught some (few compared to other WRs in this draft) passes and looked good doing it. His WR sample size is smaller than Sanchez', but that's why they likely won't go top 10 in the NFL draft. They'll both likely be mid-1st to very early 2nd round picks, and I'd make Harvin a top 6 or 7 rookie pick in FFB. I really like the guy, but if we're arguing that Harvin is the best skill position player in this draft...

HELL NO! He's probably the best athelete but even that is debatable.

 

[LawFitz]

Except for migraines, this guy has been an absolute stud.

And more importantly for the 2011 season, Harvin is a guy who will be underrated again b/c of the health questions and new/rookie QB, and yet he'll continue to be a WR1 on a PPG basis in leagues that reward return stats, barring a complete meltdown of the Vikings offense. Could Ponder be that bad? It's something that I'll have to research if I'm to consider drafting Percy this year.

This is a guy who can be drafted as late as WR3 with WR1 upside, as long as you also draft a competent backup WR to fill in if necessary. I wish the Vikings had picked Dalton instead. I like him better than Ponder.

 

[FUBAR]

Except for migraines, this guy has been an absolute stud.

And more importantly for the 2011 season, Harvin is a guy who will be underrated again b/c of the health questions and new/rookie QB, and yet he'll continue to be a WR1 on a PPG basis in leagues that reward return stats, barring a complete meltdown of the Vikings offense. Could Ponder be that bad? It's something that I'll have to research if I'm to consider drafting Percy this year.

This is a guy who can be drafted as late as WR3 with WR1 upside, as long as you also draft a competent backup WR to fill in if necessary. I wish the Vikings had picked Dalton instead. I like him better than Ponder.

that's the key, many leagues don't give return yardage

 

[Breesisdaman]

Cant stay healthy long enough. Speaking of headaches he was on my fantasy team last year. The end of the season was just a killer!

 

[FantasyTrader]

Except for migraines, this guy has been an absolute stud.

And more importantly for the 2011 season, Harvin is a guy who will be underrated again b/c of the health questions and new/rookie QB, and yet he'll continue to be a WR1 on a PPG basis in leagues that reward return stats, barring a complete meltdown of the Vikings offense. Could Ponder be that bad? It's something that I'll have to research if I'm to consider drafting Percy this year.

This is a guy who can be drafted as late as WR3 with WR1 upside, as long as you also draft a competent backup WR to fill in if necessary. I wish the Vikings had picked Dalton instead. I like him better than Ponder.

That's pretty much the book on Percy. He COULD be all-world, but look at how many qualifiers are in your statement. He'll continue to be a WR1 on a pts per game basis, counting return stats, if the offense doesn't regress. Well...yeah.

 

[snellman]

Except for migraines, this guy has been an absolute stud. And more importantly for the 2011 season, Harvin is a guy who will be underrated again b/c of the health questions and new/rookie QB, and yet he'll continue to be a WR1 on a PPG basis in leagues that reward return stats, barring a complete meltdown of the Vikings offense. Could Ponder be that bad? It's something that I'll have to research if I'm to consider drafting Percy this year.This is a guy who can be drafted as late as WR3 with WR1 upside, as long as you also draft a competent backup WR to fill in if necessary. I wish the Vikings had picked Dalton instead. I like him better than Ponder.

I don't think you will see Harvin returning a lot of kicks this year. I think Frazier was happy with Booker returning kicks and wants to keep Harvin out of harms way with injuries and migraines. He still may get some returns, but I think Booker will get the bulk of them.

 

[gandalas]

Except for migraines, this guy has been an absolute stud.

And more importantly for the 2011 season, Harvin is a guy who will be underrated again b/c of the health questions and new/rookie QB, and yet he'll continue to be a WR1 on a PPG basis in leagues that reward return stats, barring a complete meltdown of the Vikings offense. Could Ponder be that bad? It's something that I'll have to research if I'm to consider drafting Percy this year.

This is a guy who can be drafted as late as WR3 with WR1 upside, as long as you also draft a competent backup WR to fill in if necessary. I wish the Vikings had picked Dalton instead. I like him better than Ponder.

That's pretty much the book on Percy. He COULD be all-world, but look at how many qualifiers are in your statement. He'll continue to be a WR1 on a pts per game basis, counting return stats, if the offense doesn't regress. Well...yeah.

The thing is, the offense cannot regress that much from last season. It was horrid...

 

[griff321]

Except for migraines, this guy has been an absolute stud.

And more importantly for the 2011 season, Harvin is a guy who will be underrated again b/c of the health questions and new/rookie QB, and yet he'll continue to be a WR1 on a PPG basis in leagues that reward return stats, barring a complete meltdown of the Vikings offense. Could Ponder be that bad? It's something that I'll have to research if I'm to consider drafting Percy this year.

This is a guy who can be drafted as late as WR3 with WR1 upside, as long as you also draft a competent backup WR to fill in if necessary. I wish the Vikings had picked Dalton instead. I like him better than Ponder.

That's pretty much the book on Percy. He COULD be all-world, but look at how many qualifiers are in your statement. He'll continue to be a WR1 on a pts per game basis, counting return stats, if the offense doesn't regress. Well...yeah.

The thing is, the offense cannot regress that much from last season. It was horrid...

Unless we see the Vikings make significant FA moves this squad could still regress. No doubt last year was a underachiever party and the entire roster was invited and the injuries in key areas didn't help anyone, but CP7 will have growing pains and it will be painful.Harvin is still a stud that you will never be able to rely on until the final injury report is released. The big plus here is the Vikings wont be playing in primetime this season so you'll at least you'll have more options if he does sit.

 

[eakfootball]

Well the Pack got Percy without the migraines in Randall Cobb.

 

[Steed]

Cobbs a nice player but let's not get ahead of ourselves here.

 

[EBF]

33 carries in two seasons. Wonder if anyone still thinks he's a RB.