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I Was Promised The Commies Weren't Coming For Everything, And You Know How That Worked Out (1 Viewer)

Proof is quite the concept, isn't it?

It might be evidence, but proof is another ball of wax altogether. 

 
DaVinci said:
Down with racists, except for my racists!  :mellow:
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Huh? I'm not a Philly or Kate Smith guy. I think we're getting into the slippery slope argument many people were making about removing public commemorations and where it ends. We were assured it would stop only at the most virulent of slaveholding racists.

It was even possibly a satirical song about racism, according to the article. But...let's tear it down anyway because it seems offensive. 

Anyway, I don't care if the thread goes away. I just had a moment. 

 
It’s an interesting conversation. We certainly can’t depend on companies to preserve history- they will always do what is convenient and profitable. I also don’t know if this singer is really so important that she needs a statue outside a baseball stadium or that her version of a song that’s been performed by a million people is the definitive version that should be played at baseball games. She didn’t write the song. I have a lot more issue of historical preservation when talk about Tiger Stadium and other ballparks getting bulldozed for new modern stadiums. If teams will happily erase their own history I don’t think it really matters if they want to get rid a song from a woman who recorded some offensive songs.

 
Nick Vermeil said:
Sick of this version of the song anyway. 
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But I would ask what you might feel when it's a song you like? It seems like there is a vocal fringe that will stop at nothing -- even demanding the removal of a civic tribute to somebody who may have been satirizing an ugly notion -- until, out of normative concerns, our history is totally airbrushed.

The constantly aggrieved seem to stop at nothing; however small the infraction by the person or piece of artwork, regardless of even the pertinence to the work in question, without even stopping to consider the intent of the work that may or may not be relevant to the work in question.

It's a socially tyrannical impulse these people have, and corporations are kowtowing to it out of PR concerns. That concerns me a bit. 

 
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I guess a similar comparison would be what if Spotify decided to remove R. Jelly or Pandora got rid of all their Michael Jackson songs. 

 
Ilov80s said:
I guess a similar comparison would be what if Spotify decided to remove R. Jelly or Pandora got rid of all their Michael Jackson songs. 
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Similar, but not totally analogous. The work in question isn't pertinent to the standard she performed. It's like removing Whitney Houston's version of The Star Spangled Banner because of her personal failings.

 
rockaction said:
Similar, but not totally analogous. The work in question isn't pertinent to the standard she performed. It's like removing Whitney Houston's version of The Star Spangled Banner because of her personal failings.
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Does that make it easier or more difficult to remove the recording? Without MJ, there is no Thriller. There’s no separating them. So I could see the argument MJ was a predator and so all his songs are part of a tainted legacy that a company might want to move on from. I could also see the argument that people like the song and that’s really the only version that matters so how do we get rid of it?

Conversely, God Bless America has nothing to really do personally with Kate Smith so it’s easy to just choose a different version. 

 
Ilov80s said:
Does that make it easier or more difficult to remove the recording? Without MJ, there is no Thriller. There’s no separating them. So I could see the argument MJ was a predator and so all his songs are part of a tainted legacy that a company might want to move on from. I could also see the argument that people like the song and that’s really the only version that matters so how do we get rid of it?

Conversely, God Bless America has nothing to really do personally with Kate Smith so it’s easy to just choose a different version. 
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I'd say the pertinence of the behavior or attitude in question to the work is important. In other words, it's more difficult ot listen to MJ sing P.Y.T. (Pretty Young Thing) than it is to hear him sing something like Singin' In The Rain or some other such song.

 
rockaction said:
I'd say the pertinence of the behavior or attitude in question to the work is important. In other words, it's more difficult ot listen to MJ sing P.Y.T. (Pretty Young Thing) than it is to hear him sing something like Singin' In The Rain or some other such song.
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True though still think when we are talking about a standard like God Bless America, it’s so easy to replace- especially here. I’d never heard of Kate Smith before in my life and I’m a pretty big music nerd, history nerd and like pre-baby boomer music. She’s just not very relevant to modern audiences and the article I read indicated the Yankees were already talking about replacing her before this in place of more modern artists and live performances.

 
Ilov80s said:
True though still think when we are talking about a standard like God Bless America, it’s so easy to replace- especially here. I’d never heard of Kate Smith before in my life and I’m a pretty big music nerd, history nerd and like pre-baby boomer music. She’s just not very relevant to modern audiences and the article I read indicated the Yankees were already talking about replacing her before this in place of more modern artists and live performances.
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That is also true, but she's sort of a Philadelphia Flyers institution, hence the statue. I think you're thinking of Ronan Tynan with the Yankees.

But your point about replacing a standard with another is taken. I guess it depends on how you value the personality of the performer and how it informs the work or doesn't.

 
What’s the upside for the Yankees to keep playing her song? Even if it’s like 1% of fans upset about it, I wouldn’t think there’s anything to gain by defending an artist who has been dead for 40 years and is a relic of a generation mostly gone. With Philadelphia it’s a tougher situation since there’s a lot more history with her and the team.

 
rockaction said:
That is also true, but she's sort of a Philadelphia Flyers institution, hence the statue. I think you're thinking of Ronan Tynan with the Yankees.

But your point about replacing a standard with another is taken. I guess it depends on how you value the personality of the performer and how it informs the work or doesn't.
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They had played her GBA at Yankee games for 10 years. Also the Yankees ditched Ronan awhile ago too when he made anti-Semitic comments.

 
Ilov80s said:
They had played her GBA at Yankee games for 10 years. Also the Yankees ditched Ronan awhile ago too when he made anti-Semitic comments.
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Yeah, I knew both. Ronan had made jokes to a neighbor or some such stuff like that. I was just talking about the article and Philly.

 
rockaction said:
But I would ask what you might feel when it's a song you like? It seems like there is a vocal fringe that will stop at nothing -- even demanding the removal of a civic tribute to somebody who may have been satirizing an ugly notion -- until, out of normative concerns, our history is totally airbrushed.

The constantly aggrieved seem to stop at nothing; however small the infraction by the person or piece of artwork, regardless of even the pertinence to the work in question, without even stopping to consider the intent of the work that may or may not be relevant to the work in question.

It's a socially tyrannical impulse these people have, and corporations are kowtowing to it out of PR concerns. That concerns me a bit. 
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You seem aggrieved.

 
And "commie" is more of an eighties jock-esque and derogatory term. 

Say it with me.

Commie. Commie. Commies. 

 
rockaction said:
But I would ask what you might feel when it's a song you like? It seems like there is a vocal fringe that will stop at nothing -- even demanding the removal of a civic tribute to somebody who may have been satirizing an ugly notion -- until, out of normative concerns, our history is totally airbrushed.

The constantly aggrieved seem to stop at nothing; however small the infraction by the person or piece of artwork, regardless of even the pertinence to the work in question, without even stopping to consider the intent of the work that may or may not be relevant to the work in question.

It's a socially tyrannical impulse these people have, and corporations are kowtowing to it out of PR concerns. That concerns me a bit. 
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Lefty commie that I am I was never big On the forced patriotism anyway. It has its place for a time after 9/11 but no need for it to be permanent. And if the performer has any connection to racism then all the better. Maybe she’s misunderstood?  Who cares. I’m a business owner and I want all my customers to feel welcome. Except the bigots. Screw them. 

 
rockaction said:
Nothing political about it. It's not a state actor, no laws are involved.

It's a private corporation/entity bowing to public and private pressure. 
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It's a reductionist statement that is no better than political discourse using memes. It distracts from your broader, and far more interesting, points by being simplistic and (almost?) entirely inaccurate.

Bring back the Rocky statue!

 
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Chaka said:
Bring back the Rocky statue!
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I'm reclaiming commie.

San Dimas High School football rules! 

On a serious note, conservatives are allowed to use words for ironic and humorously serious effect, too. It's long been said conservatives have no sense of humor. Irony is a humorist's and satirist's device at times.

 
So you're saying private businesses made a business decision. I think we call that the free market last I checked. 

 
So a private entity commits a public relations move to enhance its private coffers at the behest of apolitical pressures and we move the discussion and result to the political forum.

That sounds about right, I guess. Here it dies.  

 
I feel like the concern is how far the country is going to head down this path.  I didn't know who this lady was before today and I won't lose sleep over it.  Just comes across as goofy to me. 

Lets cover a statue of a women who sang a racist song in the 30s, but we'll still rock that Wells Fargo logo who screwed over countless minorities in their lending practices. 

 
Henry Ford said:
Which song were you referring to? “Pickaninny Heaven” or “That’s Why Darkies Were Born”?
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"That's Why Darkies Were Born" is the name of the title song in the article, an article that states that it the song in question has been claimed to have been satirical in nature and was sung and covered by none other than the accused communist Paul Robeson, presumably to prove a satirical point.  

 
rockaction said:
"That's Why Darkies Were Born" is the name of the title song in the article, an article that states that it the song in question has been claimed to have been satirical in nature and was sung and covered by none other than the accused communist Paul Robeson, presumably to prove a satirical point.  
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I recommend you read the other one, too. 

 
I don’t like it at all. It’s their decision but Kate Smith is  an important bit of American history. Along with Bing’s “White Christmas”, her “God Bless America” was THE American song of World War II. Incidentally, Randy Newman uses the line “that’s why darkies were born in his song “Undrneath the Harlem Moon” a satire from the album Twelve Songs.

That being said, rockaction’s title of this thread, and it’s implications, are way over the top. 

 
timschochet said:
I don’t like it at all. It’s their decision but Kate Smith is  an important bit of American history. Along with Bing’s “White Christmas”, her “God Bless America” was THE American song of World War II. Incidentally, Randy Newman uses the line “that’s why darkies were born in his song “Undrneath the Harlem Moon” a satire from the album Twelve Songs.

That being said, rockaction’s title of this thread, and it’s implications, are way over the top. 
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Like I said, this forum is where good ideas go to die, if not to at least lose syntactical accuracy. 

 
rockaction said:
So a private entity commits a public relations move to enhance its private coffers at the behest of apolitical pressures and we move the discussion and result to the political forum.

That sounds about right, I guess. Here it dies.  
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I didn't realize the Flyers were striking Kate Smith's God Bless America from history forever....making it impossible for you to still hear and enjoy it. 

 
Henry Ford said:
rockaction said:
"That's Why Darkies Were Born" is the name of the title song in the article, an article that states that it the song in question has been claimed to have been satirical in nature and was sung and covered by none other than the accused communist Paul Robeson, presumably to prove a satirical point.  
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I recommend you read the other one, too. 
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Oh come on. What's the big deal about telling little black kids that their dream world includes lots of big watermelons?

 
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