If a player takes a cheap shot at Brady (1 Viewer)

[eom]

this guy is trolling --- nobody's that far removed from reality.

except maybe big daddy caned.

and those dudes that thought washington was going to be tough....

 

[encaitar]

This is one of those differences between fantasy football and real football. If I'm a coach I'm praying that Moss goes down before Brady.

You can't expect people on a fantasy football board to understand real football. Forget that defenses have to completely revamp their gameplan for Moss. Forget that Welker and Stallworth are only open because they are single covered since the safeties are worried about Moss.Tom Brady scores 5 TD's a game!!! There is no way Moss can influence a game like him.

Forget the fact that Brady's been a top QB and the Pats an elite team for the last 5 years without even a Welker/Stallworth/Watson level receiving corps. Those two guys could never get open on their own and no way Brady can put up good numbers without Moss. I'm so glad to learn about "real" football on this board. I would've never know teams gameplan around Moss and certainly I'd never know that he was double covered on all his great catches in double coverage. How anybody can possibly think the team is better off without Brady than Moss is one of the most baffling things I've ever read on these boards.

Well, just to let you know, I wasn't refuting that the team is better off without Brady then they are without Moss. Clearly Brady has been a part of their winning ways for many years. I was responding to the idea that the Pats could continue tearing up defenses without Moss, as had been mentioned earlier in the thread. I don't doubt that they would be a great offense without Moss, but Stallworth and Welker would struggle with more attention. I would believe that the running game would become far more important in order to ease pressure in the passing game. With Moss that doesn't matter. His need to be constantly double covered opens up the underneath routes no matter what emphasis is placed on the running game. Remember, he made Randall Cunningham, Brad Johnson, Duante Culpepper, and JEFF GEORGE look like HOF QB's in Minnesota. Don't underestimate him either.

 

[eom]

how many balls did welker catch w/o moss last year?

how many points did the pats put up in their last 6 games last year w/o moss?

how many superbowls did the pats win w/o moss?

how many td's did moss have last year w/o brady?

dude, don't bs yourself.

w/o moss the pats go from 50/game to 40/game.

w/o brady they go to 10/game.

 

[encaitar]

This is one of those differences between fantasy football and real football. If I'm a coach I'm praying that Moss goes down before Brady.

You can't expect people on a fantasy football board to understand real football. Forget that defenses have to completely revamp their gameplan for Moss. Forget that Welker and Stallworth are only open because they are single covered since the safeties are worried about Moss.Tom Brady scores 5 TD's a game!!! There is no way Moss can influence a game like him.

So you may have missed the original point here. Moss absolutely changes the game. He is a huge catalyst in the Pats passing game, and creates opportunities because he'll draw coverage. Welker is a great compliment to Moss in the passing game, a slot reciever coming underneath the coverage as the safties are staying deep, and moving the chains. Stallworth has shown me more with YAC this year than I recall in some of his other stints in NO & PHI. He can still stretch a field, though. The point I was speaking to was the following: That without Moss, this WR corps is worse than other WR groups the Pats have had over thieir recent history. I disagree. I think that Welker & Stallworth are an upgrade over the receivers the Pats had last year, and for several years previously. Branch never had a 1000 yd season. Givens never had a 1000 yd season. Caldwell never had a 1000 yd season. Troy Brown had 1, back in 2001, I think ( my dates could be off, but I'm not lookiong it up )Maybe Moss opens up the passing game so much that both of these guys will be 1000 yd receivers. But watching the games, it sure looks like these guys are performing above the level of any of the WR on the recent Pats teams.

I will definitely agree that Stallworth/Welker is better than Caldwell/whoever else? Gaffney second half?. Stallworth proved he was a talented receiver when he was with the Eagles. However, neither one of them has seen a double team all year because of Randy. My point wasn't that without Moss they were a terrible WR core, it was that without Moss they aren't a 40+ point a game offense, no matter the opposing defense.

 

[encaitar]

how many balls did welker catch w/o moss last year?how many points did the pats put up in their last 6 games last year w/o moss?how many superbowls did the pats win w/o moss?how many td's did moss have last year w/o brady?dude, don't bs yourself.w/o moss the pats go from 50/game to 40/game.w/o brady they go to 10/game.

Well I guess we will have to wait until Randy's ankle or hamstring injuries flare up again, but I don't think you understand just how game changing Randy Moss is until you've had him on your team and then lost him. The middle of the field is no longer wide open, defenses can stack 8 in the box again, defenses can afford to blitz again. It makes a bigger difference than you want to believe. If it really is that hard for you to believe, just look at the team whose scoring record the Pats are gonna break this year. See who the big playmaker was? Must be coincidence.

 

[chris1969]

Moss is the one opposing teams ought to be trying to take out.

Agreed, and it doesn't have to be a dirty hit! Just a hard one!

I can see them putting up 40+ with Brady and Stallworth, Welker, Gaffney and Watson. Can't see them doing the same with Cassell and Moss. And apparently neither does BB, that's why he pulled Matt for letting the Dolphins get within striking range. If he doesn't think Cassell can hold onto a 21 point lead in the 4th, he can't be a very good starter material. Brady;s the key. Cut the head off and the body will die.

Without Moss, Welker and Stallworth look pretty pedestrian. Watson would see more action though.

They won 3 SBs with less. What's the key? Brady. Losing Moss would hurt, but not much. Losing Brady would be a death knell. You're welcome to your opinion, but I would bet that 98% of the board would agree that Brady is a lot bigger loss than Moss.

Not me, IMO Brady has always been a product of the system, see Derek Anderson. Once Moss is out of the picture, cover 2 looks really, really good to a defensive coordinator. Let the speed guys do their thing, it won't make much of a difference because even if the receiving corp with Moss is better than last year, the receiving corp without him is worse. Without Moss, the receiving corps would only appeal to a QB like Brett Farve.

Seriously? Reche Caldwell as your #1 with no #2 (Gafney didn't get started until very late ) is better than Stallworth/Welker? Without Moss, this is still the best WR talent Brady has had in his career.

Yes seriously, Stallworth and Welker are only deep threats. If Moss went down, I'd play cover 2 all day and only really worry about Watson and Gafney.

If there's one thing Welker's not, it's a deep threat. He's small and quick and finds holes in coverage then turns on the burners upfield. But deep threat?! Pretty much invalidates any argument you could have on the subject. A vast majority of his catches and TDs are short passes with a lot of YAC

Yeah, yeah, Welker's a super hero and pees gold flakes and when he farts it smells like roses but if Moss is out and I can play cover 2 I tell my corner that his only job is to knock that little guy on his ### before he gets 5 yards from the line of scrimmage. Welker only gets those over the middle catches because everybody is trying to contain Moss. With Moss out he doesn't worry me a bit. It's not like he was worth anything before he came to the Pats. And yeah Welker has really only made a name as a deep threat, the fact that he's made a few catches over the middle doesn't change that. If Moss was gone, he wouldn't have a chance to go over the middle. LB's would kill him.

 

[mad sweeney]

Moss is the one opposing teams ought to be trying to take out.

Agreed, and it doesn't have to be a dirty hit! Just a hard one!

I can see them putting up 40+ with Brady and Stallworth, Welker, Gaffney and Watson. Can't see them doing the same with Cassell and Moss. And apparently neither does BB, that's why he pulled Matt for letting the Dolphins get within striking range. If he doesn't think Cassell can hold onto a 21 point lead in the 4th, he can't be a very good starter material. Brady;s the key. Cut the head off and the body will die.

Without Moss, Welker and Stallworth look pretty pedestrian. Watson would see more action though.

They won 3 SBs with less. What's the key? Brady. Losing Moss would hurt, but not much. Losing Brady would be a death knell. You're welcome to your opinion, but I would bet that 98% of the board would agree that Brady is a lot bigger loss than Moss.

Not me, IMO Brady has always been a product of the system, see Derek Anderson. Once Moss is out of the picture, cover 2 looks really, really good to a defensive coordinator. Let the speed guys do their thing, it won't make much of a difference because even if the receiving corp with Moss is better than last year, the receiving corp without him is worse. Without Moss, the receiving corps would only appeal to a QB like Brett Farve.

Seriously? Reche Caldwell as your #1 with no #2 (Gafney didn't get started until very late ) is better than Stallworth/Welker? Without Moss, this is still the best WR talent Brady has had in his career.

Yes seriously, Stallworth and Welker are only deep threats. If Moss went down, I'd play cover 2 all day and only really worry about Watson and Gafney.

If there's one thing Welker's not, it's a deep threat. He's small and quick and finds holes in coverage then turns on the burners upfield. But deep threat?! Pretty much invalidates any argument you could have on the subject. A vast majority of his catches and TDs are short passes with a lot of YAC

Yeah, yeah, Welker's a super hero and pees gold flakes and when he farts it smells like roses but if Moss is out and I can play cover 2 I tell my corner that his only job is to knock that little guy on his ### before he gets 5 yards from the line of scrimmage. Welker only gets those over the middle catches because everybody is trying to contain Moss. With Moss out he doesn't worry me a bit. It's not like he was worth anything before he came to the Pats. And yeah Welker has really only made a name as a deep threat, the fact that he's made a few catches over the middle doesn't change that. If Moss was gone, he wouldn't have a chance to go over the middle. LB's would kill him.

I can't even formulate a response to this. I'm just going to put you on my ignore list to preserve my reamaining IQ points.

 

[eom]

how many balls did welker catch w/o moss last year?how many points did the pats put up in their last 6 games last year w/o moss?how many superbowls did the pats win w/o moss?how many td's did moss have last year w/o brady?dude, don't bs yourself.w/o moss the pats go from 50/game to 40/game.w/o brady they go to 10/game.

Well I guess we will have to wait until Randy's ankle or hamstring injuries flare up again, but I don't think you understand just how game changing Randy Moss is until you've had him on your team and then lost him. The middle of the field is no longer wide open, defenses can stack 8 in the box again, defenses can afford to blitz again. It makes a bigger difference than you want to believe. If it really is that hard for you to believe, just look at the team whose scoring record the Pats are gonna break this year. See who the big playmaker was? Must be coincidence.

so, why did you duck all my questions?it's an open book quiz, btw.

 

[timschochet]

There is no point in arguing with anyone who believes that Tom Brady is not the most important player on the Patriots. If someone tells you that 5 + 5 = 11, do you argue with him? Better to just walk away, because he might be dangerous.

 

[encaitar]

how many balls did welker catch w/o moss last year?how many points did the pats put up in their last 6 games last year w/o moss?how many superbowls did the pats win w/o moss?how many td's did moss have last year w/o brady?dude, don't bs yourself.w/o moss the pats go from 50/game to 40/game.w/o brady they go to 10/game.

Well I guess we will have to wait until Randy's ankle or hamstring injuries flare up again, but I don't think you understand just how game changing Randy Moss is until you've had him on your team and then lost him. The middle of the field is no longer wide open, defenses can stack 8 in the box again, defenses can afford to blitz again. It makes a bigger difference than you want to believe. If it really is that hard for you to believe, just look at the team whose scoring record the Pats are gonna break this year. See who the big playmaker was? Must be coincidence.

so, why did you duck all my questions?it's an open book quiz, btw.

OK, if you need me to look up stats because you believe it will show me something I already don't know, then okay.

how many balls did welker catch w/o moss last year?

67 and 1 TD. Yes, with Brady he would've had more, but he was nothing more than a possession receiver in Miami and still is in NE. But being a possession reciever looks good when noone is left in the middle of the field to defend you.

how many points did the pats put up in their last 6 games last year w/o moss?

Well, I'm not gonna add it up, but it wasn't spectacular. 40 twice against Houston and Tennessee? Not exactly enforcing their will upon defenses now is it?

how many superbowls did the pats win w/o moss?

I don't really think arguing whether their offense is better with or without Moss has anything to do with Superbowl wins of the past. Brady is a difference maker that much is true. By the end of his career he may be remembered as the best QB ever because of his ability to perform when it matters.

how many td's did moss have last year w/o brady?

Well I hardly think this is a fair argument. He had Aaron Brooks and Andrew Walter throwing him the ball with no time to throw it. Plus he had two different nagging injuries last year and quit when his team was losing(not something the Pats will have to worry about).My point is.. the Pats scored an average of 24 points a game last year. Yes, Welker and Stallworth would've made a difference, but Moss is the true difference maker.I think we may be missing each other's points here. I don't doubt that losing Brady would hurt this team more than losing Moss. Not only is Brady one of the best QB's in the league, he's the team's heart and soul. Plus, his backup has no experience and isn't all that great to begin with(if he can't beat out Leinart for a job in college). However, I feel if you throw a Jon Kitna or a Drew Bress in this offense, they still shoot for the record books. I don't feel the same if you throw in a good journeyman receiver in place of Moss.The difference is this... Brady makes this team great. Moss makes this OFFENSE epic.

 

[xNiZzLEx]

So you don't like the patriots beating up on your favorite team.. Well, maybe your favorite team should just, well.... I don't know.... stop them? If they can't, respect the fact that they are playing hard until the end. A lot of people are saying, "They should take Brady out, he's going to be injured." Well, Isn't that what you want? Just sit there, watch the game and as sick as it sounds, hope it happens. In these blow outs, do you see the other team taking out their starters when they know it's a sure loss? I certainly don't see that happening.

These players are getting paid a lot of money to do their jobs which is to play football at the highest level they can. The better they do, the more money they make down the road. They aren't going to stop trying, period. Also, even when Cassel was put in at the end of the game on Sunday, the Washington Def couldn't even stop him. He ran the ball in from 15 yards out. Should he of just handed the ball off to a back to be stuffed up the middle? No, he's trying to prove himself as a player so he's going to try his balls off with every opportunity he gets just like any other player is going to do. I can almost guarantee that BB loves the fact that people hate him for having a great team and "running up scores" because it gives him more fuel to just keep doing it. Quit complaining and just worry about your own teams.

 

[mad sweeney]

So you don't like the patriots beating up on your favorite team.. Well, maybe your favorite team should just, well.... I don't know.... stop them? If they can't, respect the fact that they are playing hard until the end. A lot of people are saying, "They should take Brady out, he's going to be injured." Well, Isn't that what you want? Just sit there, watch the game and as sick as it sounds, hope it happens. In these blow outs, do you see the other team taking out their starters when they know it's a sure loss? I certainly don't see that happening. These players are getting paid a lot of money to do their jobs which is to play football at the highest level they can. The better they do, the more money they make down the road. They aren't going to stop trying, period. Also, even when Cassel was put in at the end of the game on Sunday, the Washington Def couldn't even stop him. He ran the ball in from 15 yards out. Should he of just handed the ball off to a back to be stuffed up the middle? No, he's trying to prove himself as a player so he's going to try his balls off with every opportunity he gets just like any other player is going to do. I can almost guarantee that BB loves the fact that people hate him for having a great team and "running up scores" because it gives him more fuel to just keep doing it. Quit complaining and just worry about your own teams.

Wow, how original, haven't heard that 5000 times in the last 3 days, thanks for contributing. This thread hasn't dealt with the issue of running up the score, and hasn't even been a Pat bashing thread. it's been a little hijacked from the OP, but that grew organically from the replies. Keep the Pat Basher Bashing out of this thread. TIA

 

[encaitar]

Getting back on topic, if Brady does go down with an injury, does the opposing QB wet his pants? I mean I wouldn't want to be on Harrison's bad side, nor Seymour's or Wilfork's. Is that what is really stopping anyone from taking cheap shots? Fear of retribution?

 

[xNiZzLEx]

Getting back on topic, if Brady does go down with an injury, does the opposing QB wet his pants? I mean I wouldn't want to be on Harrison's bad side, nor Seymour's or Wilfork's. Is that what is really stopping anyone from taking cheap shots? Fear of retribution?

I don't think he would need to be wetting his pants, this isn't baseball with retaliation of hit batsmen.. But to expand on your question, would the guy who retaliates get a bigger punishment than the original cheap shot? I'd say yes and thats the reason why they wouldn't do it.

 

[PMENFAN]

Haynesworth raking his cleats across the face of a man on the ground got only 5 games, don't remember what the fine was. And other than Charles Martin on McMahon I've never seen so blatant attempt to injure someone. So unless it's even on that magnitude I doubt there's a suspension. No reason for any special punishment just because it's Brady. Oh, and he'll use the same criteria for determining if it was deliberate as the people who claim that BB isn't running up the score.

Very few people say they're not running up the score. The question is, "why shouldn't they?" Why should they play less than their best until early in the 4th quarter? Remember, we're in week 8 of the season. There's a ton of room for improvement. Don't like them scoring on you? You have the same salary as a team. Earn yours, because they're not going to stop earning theirs. To get a cheap shot on Brady, they've got to get close. That's not happening much. Then, what is cheap? A blind side hit? That's going to happen when the opportunity presents itself, no matter the QB, no matter the score. Hitting the QB on an INT? Again, happens every time. Tom Brady has shown through the years that he can take the hits, even playing w/ a sports hernia for most of the year 2 years ago. Could his season be ended on one play? Absolutely. IF it's a deliberate run, and we all know what that means, I think the Haynesworth penalty would seem miniscule.

 

[Truman]

By 'the Haynesworth penalty' do you mean the penalty Haynesworth was leveled with after knocking Matt Schaub out of the game last Sunday?

What is 'a deliberate run'? Is that like when Wilfork knocked Losman out in week 2?

 

[Neil Beaufort Zod]

Personal foul. Roughing the QB, 15 yards. Plus a $12,500 fine. And he'll deny it was a cheap shot.

 

[twitch]

Will someone in this forum take care of this? seriously. Just go the game. Walk up to Brady. And knock him out. Please. Get it over with!

 

[bcr8f]

Take a shot at Belichick.