Judge Smails
Footballguy
How do you not gameplan for a rookie QB by showing multiple looks, blitzing, etc? And this guy was a defensive guru? Somebody please explain why this guy should still be the HC in Cincy for another season..
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If Cincy loses this game to SF (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter Judge Smails
- Start date
gman8343
What would Lemmy do?
2007?
He's had one winning season in five years.
Craig_MiamiFL
Footballguy
Definitely have to consider.
Even the offense hasn't progressed this year. I'm shocked at how bad this veteran offense has looked at times this year.
Even the offense hasn't progressed this year. I'm shocked at how bad this veteran offense has looked at times this year.
King of the Wolfies
Footballguy
win or lose, he should be fired. he is wasting this offense with an ever worsening defense.
Doctor Detroit
Please remove your headgear
Does he make the personnel decisions? If not then no. Bengals D is atrotious on a good day.
Raider Nation
Devil's Advocate
If only he could have brought the 2000 Ravens defense with him to Cincy.
Craig_MiamiFL
Footballguy
20 points allowed to the Niners is like giving 35 to an average offense.Not a very impressive defensive outing.
fsufan
Footballguy
what about the under achieving O
Especially giving up a 1st down on a draw on 3rd and 9 with 2 minutes left. Even the announcers (Faulk) said that they would run a draw play and not throw a pass. They would have gotten the ball back with plenty of time and good field position.
He should be fired before he gets on the plane.
I love the Bengals, and I thought Lewis was a great hire, but it is clear he is not an elite head coach. Maybe the Bengals do not deserve that, but its time for a different direction.
I give him some benefit given the injuries the team suffered on D, but the decision making has been terrible.
I love the Bengals, and I thought Lewis was a great hire, but it is clear he is not an elite head coach. Maybe the Bengals do not deserve that, but its time for a different direction.
I give him some benefit given the injuries the team suffered on D, but the decision making has been terrible.
Craig_MiamiFL
Footballguy
Not only is the defense subpar, but I thought the worst running back wearing jersey #32 this year resided in Chicago....that's not the case. I don't even know why Watson gets taken out. Or why Trudi is playing ahead of Dede at this point.
The offense looked way out of sync.
The offense looked way out of sync.
knowledge dropper
Footballguy
Lifelong Bengals fan.
He is no better a HC than Dave Shula. He constantly makes terrible gameday decisions and has lost control of the team. I don't think he is ever going to get Chad Johnson back. If Lewis stays, CJ is gone.
He should be fired, but he won't. Mike Brown does not have the stones to face the wrath of "city leaders."
He is no better a HC than Dave Shula. He constantly makes terrible gameday decisions and has lost control of the team. I don't think he is ever going to get Chad Johnson back. If Lewis stays, CJ is gone.
He should be fired, but he won't. Mike Brown does not have the stones to face the wrath of "city leaders."
mad sweeney
Footballguy
True, but only scoring 13 on the Niners? 21 points should be very attainable for that O. Can't hang this one on the D. They didn't help, but scoring 13 is more pathetic than giving up 20 IMO.
Da Guru
Fair & Balanced
Marvin is a good DC, the HC job seems to have overwhelmed him and the team is regressing. Time for a change.
Raider Nation
Devil's Advocate
That's a huge part of it right there, aside from the X's and O's.The inmates run the asylum on that team, though fault must be shared by the front office for constantly drafting a bunch of goons.
Yes, he should be fired.
I've been a Bengals fan since 1987 - many lean years. Marvin started a turnaround in the team's fortunes, but it's turned south the last two years. He obviously does not have a handle on the team and it shows. The most disconcerting thing is what was mentioned tonight - he doesn't seem to take ownership of the situation. This is not the first time that that attitude has been mentioned. I don't care who you are - as a leader of an organization, such as an NFL head coach, you HAVE to take responsibility for your team. I don't care about injuries, poor personnel decisions, etc. - it's your team, man up and take responsibility. Hearing these things make me believe that he's just waiting for a new job. So, go ahead and fire him.
And pay whatever it takes to get Jason Garrett - the offense would be better, lord knows the defense couldn't be worse.
I've been a Bengals fan since 1987 - many lean years. Marvin started a turnaround in the team's fortunes, but it's turned south the last two years. He obviously does not have a handle on the team and it shows. The most disconcerting thing is what was mentioned tonight - he doesn't seem to take ownership of the situation. This is not the first time that that attitude has been mentioned. I don't care who you are - as a leader of an organization, such as an NFL head coach, you HAVE to take responsibility for your team. I don't care about injuries, poor personnel decisions, etc. - it's your team, man up and take responsibility. Hearing these things make me believe that he's just waiting for a new job. So, go ahead and fire him.
And pay whatever it takes to get Jason Garrett - the offense would be better, lord knows the defense couldn't be worse.
Craig_MiamiFL
Footballguy
I agree with you. I just wouldn't defend the performance of either side of the ball. (I've seen the majority of the Niner games & this was one of the very few that were watchable from their offensive perspective).Just an overall bad performance by the Bengals. I don't think anything positive came from this showing.
the_quagmires
Footballguy
The Bengals are one of the only teams in the NFL without a General Manager. One playoff game in 17 years speaks for itself. Although Marvin Lewis is pathetic, he's not the problem. It's Mike Brown.
knowledge dropper
Footballguy
Amen. When he got on the Dan Patrick show last spring and basically said there is no problem and it's not his problem, I would have fired him. It was one of the worst interviews I have ever heard from someone in his position.
QuizGuy66
Footballguy
To look at the number of points scored does not really indicate how poorly the defense played tonight. the 49ers were 9 for 15 on 3rd Down conversions and had the ball nearly 36 minutes! They took the air out of the ball by dominating the pace. The Bengals defense had plenty of opportunities to get a key stop and get the offense back on the field and they failed.-QG
mad sweeney
Footballguy
Oh would it? Is that because when you hire someone who's a "genius" on one side of the ball, when he's the HC that side of the ball is dominant? If that's the case, you should get a big defensive guru to come in.
Saint
Footballguy
Definitely need to get some discipline back on the team...
As HC, you need to make the right calls. the defense has been subpar for multiple years, and the offense looked out of sync against the leagues worst defense. In addition, throwing a challenge on a play that was clearly not winnable was also a poor decision as it cost them the timeout. Even though they gave up the first, if they had kept the challenge, they would have had another opportunity to stop them and get the ball back with about 10 seconds. Bad decision.
At this point, I think it is hard not to argue that Lewis is on thin ice. If he's not fired this year, and if they don't make the playoffs next year, he's gone.
As HC, you need to make the right calls. the defense has been subpar for multiple years, and the offense looked out of sync against the leagues worst defense. In addition, throwing a challenge on a play that was clearly not winnable was also a poor decision as it cost them the timeout. Even though they gave up the first, if they had kept the challenge, they would have had another opportunity to stop them and get the ball back with about 10 seconds. Bad decision.
At this point, I think it is hard not to argue that Lewis is on thin ice. If he's not fired this year, and if they don't make the playoffs next year, he's gone.
Gopher State
Footballguy
First Cincy has had a lot of injuries this year, thats beyond the coaches control. IMO Palmer was off tonight, and I think Palmer is having a off year. I don't think they should fire the coach, but if they do Cincy Fans deserve Denny Green.
mad sweeney
Footballguy
I agree. Everything from player attitude/effort/performance to coaching decisions, even the booth was ######ed.
Well, that's the rub of the situation. Even if Lewis is the defensive "guru", he has nothing to work with on the defensive side of the ball - I'm not denying that. My personal beef is that he is not a leader and does not seem capable of running a team (or this team, as it may be). And as a Bengal fan, I feel that the best years of Palmer, Chad and Housh are being wasted by a bad defense and a coach that's not capable of turning the defense or the team around.So, hire a possibly great young offensive coach (Garrett) to keep the offense rolling. Then, hopefully the defense can pick it up with some new faces, whoever the new coach brings in, because that unit can't get much worse (again, hopefully)
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Judge Smails
Footballguy
I really dislike everything this team is doing. Defensively, they used to be opportunistic but now are a joke. Points do not tell the story - they probably lose TOP in just about every game they play. The defense's job should be to get what should be one of the more prolific offenses on the field more often - they fail miserably in this department.
Offensively, they are predictable. I see no deception. Even the pathetic announcers tonight were calling every single running play. Where are the slants? What about the short pick plays that just about every team runs now? Predictable and inefficient.
Offensively, they are predictable. I see no deception. Even the pathetic announcers tonight were calling every single running play. Where are the slants? What about the short pick plays that just about every team runs now? Predictable and inefficient.
knowledge dropper
Footballguy
They are sickeningly bad and the worst part is they are squandering away a window of opportunity where they have some talent in the prime of their careers.
Rushmore
Footballguy
QuizGuy66
Footballguy
well we did, actually...If we do let go of Marvin, I don't want us to go the coordinator route yet again. I'd rather see us get somebody who's been a head coach before who has some credibility versus learning to be the head guy on the job.
Marty's really the one guy that comes to mind off the top of my head. I'd be more than happy to gamble with his playoff track record as at least he'd get us there.
-QG
ptsteelers
Footballguy
Don't let my FBG name fool you, I am not here, as a Steeler fan, to bash on Bengal Nation, but I have to chime in here.
Yes, Lewis needs/deserves to be fired.
This entire team is a shadow of what it should be, and Lewis is the key reason.
Poor "character" draft selections, repeatedly.
Dreadful Defense (from a Def. coach).
Never taking resposibility for his or his players actions (or lack of actions).
Horrible decisions on the field.
Leadership skills are subpar.
Plus other reasons I am sure.
For those that say he has no personel on defense ... why is that. He is the main reason for that also. We are not talking about a first or hell, even a third year coach. He has been there long enough to "turn" the def, and yet ....
Okay, that is my two cents. You may now begin the Steeler hater bashing.
Yes, Lewis needs/deserves to be fired.
This entire team is a shadow of what it should be, and Lewis is the key reason.
Poor "character" draft selections, repeatedly.
Dreadful Defense (from a Def. coach).
Never taking resposibility for his or his players actions (or lack of actions).
Horrible decisions on the field.
Leadership skills are subpar.
Plus other reasons I am sure.
For those that say he has no personel on defense ... why is that. He is the main reason for that also. We are not talking about a first or hell, even a third year coach. He has been there long enough to "turn" the def, and yet ....
Okay, that is my two cents. You may now begin the Steeler hater bashing.
Paddy O'Seanessy
Footballguy
No.
Where do you get off figuring Cincinnati is all that much better than the 49ers?
They've lost, what, six linebackers this year? They're eliminated and on the road.
The haven't been a contender since Palmer's knee injury.
Oh, that's right. They have Chris Perry.
Where do you get off figuring Cincinnati is all that much better than the 49ers?
They've lost, what, six linebackers this year? They're eliminated and on the road.
The haven't been a contender since Palmer's knee injury.
Oh, that's right. They have Chris Perry.
The defense stinks claims are reasonable on the surface but geesh have they been beaten down with injuries. Last time I botherred to look they had a few LBers that were sitting on the WW because no other team wanted them. Odell Thurman is the one that bugs me most. I thought he was gonna be just terrific in this league.
The character concerns are a last year issue. Marvin took his beating last year for that and he has been all over it this year. IIRC They just dumped a high draft pick(Nicholson) player this summer. When's the last time you heard Henry being arrested? Last couple years and this year are night and day difference with his players acting like ...well adults. The "what a mess" people need to give him some credit for this year. He did seem to straighten things out some.
Re-draft picks. Marvin Lewis brought change to Cincy. They had some ridiculously low # of scouts and (unlike other teams or what you'd expect) the coaches were expected to do it. That was crazy as some teams hire dozens of people to scout college talent all year long. When he was hired, part of bringing him on was adding a real scouting dept and not just a few guys or whatever it was. This new(relatively) unit does fairly well at evaluating talent but seems to really stink at evaluating risks like injury history or character flaws. They sooooo have to improve in this area.
I won't bother linking to the numerous posts praising the talent of some of these players but....many here liked alot of their picks at the time.
I don't see the point in firing Marvin. With an actual NFL caliber LB corps, next year's coach is going to do better with the D than this years. I feel like that's a given. I wouldn't want to mess with the continuity of what's one of the better offenses in the league. If you think you'd like to, think of Sean Payton and Norv Turner's meddling this year. I don't see much gain from firing Marvin.
Hiring/firing/evaluating the scouting department would be an important step IMO
The character concerns are a last year issue. Marvin took his beating last year for that and he has been all over it this year. IIRC They just dumped a high draft pick(Nicholson) player this summer. When's the last time you heard Henry being arrested? Last couple years and this year are night and day difference with his players acting like ...well adults. The "what a mess" people need to give him some credit for this year. He did seem to straighten things out some.
Re-draft picks. Marvin Lewis brought change to Cincy. They had some ridiculously low # of scouts and (unlike other teams or what you'd expect) the coaches were expected to do it. That was crazy as some teams hire dozens of people to scout college talent all year long. When he was hired, part of bringing him on was adding a real scouting dept and not just a few guys or whatever it was. This new(relatively) unit does fairly well at evaluating talent but seems to really stink at evaluating risks like injury history or character flaws. They sooooo have to improve in this area.
I won't bother linking to the numerous posts praising the talent of some of these players but....many here liked alot of their picks at the time.
I don't see the point in firing Marvin. With an actual NFL caliber LB corps, next year's coach is going to do better with the D than this years. I feel like that's a given. I wouldn't want to mess with the continuity of what's one of the better offenses in the league. If you think you'd like to, think of Sean Payton and Norv Turner's meddling this year. I don't see much gain from firing Marvin.
Hiring/firing/evaluating the scouting department would be an important step IMO
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Tanner9919
Footballguy
if he's fired, Stephen A Smith will turn this into a black/white issue in 3....2.....1....Raider Nation said:
knowledge dropper
Footballguy
Why waste another year giving Lewis another chance? I have seen nothing on the field this season that gives me a glimmer of hope Lewis will turn it around. This team was built around Carson, TJ, CJ and Big Willie. From the quotes that came from Big Willie this week, he can't stand Lewis and from looking at the faces and body language of Carson, TJ and CJ they can't either.Saint said:
mad sweeney
Footballguy
You mean Henry, the guy that missed half the season on suspension? I wouldn't call 5 months without an arrest a "success" story. And if he hadn't been gone for half the season how much different would their O be? And how much credit should Marvin get for that anyway since Henry had to stay away from Bengals facilities and meetings since the start of the season. And then, just to show how much he matured, he tells us that he "kind of" feels like he let his team down "a little". That's not accountability nor is it adult behavior. And it doesn't stop him from acting like a jackass when he hauls in a big pass either. He drafted Odell, knowing that there were character issues. And he's drafted several guys that have character issues. So when one of his character issue guys goes awry, you can't use "well if they had this guy..." as an excuse. You rolled the dice on a bad guy and you don't get a gimme because you were wrong. This year he's paying for the years of letting the character guys get in trouble, that's still his fault.This "offense" put up a whopping 13 points in a national game against a horrible 3-10 team. Do you really think meddling is really going to hurt them? He's got his players talking trash on and off the field, CJ and his TD celebrations (in the 2 or 3 games he actually scores that is), Housh talking about how much better the team is than the teams that they are losing to. You watch their WRs and it's a ##### and moan and yelling for a flag fest after every incompletion. Palmer and CJ are in a tiff every game, except I noticed that Chad didn't have much to say after "Mr Closeup" DJacked a game tying TD. TJ catches the 4th down conversion and turns to his own sideline and starts talking trash and beating his chest, like his sideline needed to be reminded of how good TJ thinks he is. I would hardly call the HoF jacket and all the yelling from CJ and Tj as "adult behavior"Sure they've had some players go down on D, but you can't list Odell as a casualty as that was brought on by Marvin drafting him in the first place, and other teams deal with it as well. But if your vaunted offense can't put up more than 13 one the lowly Niners, #####ing about the defense is laughable. Even with Henry back in it seems like the Bengals have gotten worse. It's a poorly run team with no acountability from from the coach on down, little discipline and little faith in each other. If that's not bad coaching, I dunno what is. As for the Saints, how did Payton meddle with the O? He tried running the same offense as last year only without the heart of the O, Deuce. He needed to meddle more and change things up as soon as Bush became the feature back. Or do injuries only count against the Bengals performance.
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Moving from a coordinator role to the HC duties is the problem not their ability to coach avg guys into a top D or top O. Just like Lewis, Billick, when Norv is just your Off corrdinator you will have a better than average one, his more recent example was his time in SF. Personnel is probably 50% of the equation. There are very few guys that are great CEOs out of all the ones who try and their are very few great HCs for all those who give it a shot. Coordinators can make average guys into HOFers a great player like Barry Sanders cannot make a HOF coach. When great coaches and above avg talent come together you have the makings for SBs plural. A caveat here is the way the NFL scheduling is determined w/losers playing losers you can get an avg HC to get you to the SB if he can get a favorable game or player matchups. Honestly when did you ever hear that guy is a great coach just he has a crappy team or else he would be in the SB every year? Young HCs seem to come into their position w/alot of fire and can motivate the players for several years. Marvin probably needs to step down and the team needs more of a disciplarian now to get the team fired up another laid back coaching approach i.e. Herm, Lovie just wont get it done. Marvin should have fixed what ever the personnel issues are between Parmer and his WRs instead of letting them work it out.
SeniorVBDStudent
Footballguy
Complete agreement with the Steeler fan.- Patriots fanTo add, I see a severe lack of in-game adjustments when I watch the Bengals play. It's like they throw the guys out there with a scheme and see if it sticks. That's woefully inadequate.ptsteelers said:Don't let my FBG name fool you, I am not here, as a Steeler fan, to bash on Bengal Nation, but I have to chime in here.Yes, Lewis needs/deserves to be fired.This entire team is a shadow of what it should be, and Lewis is the key reason. Poor "character" draft selections, repeatedly.Dreadful Defense (from a Def. coach).Never taking resposibility for his or his players actions (or lack of actions).Horrible decisions on the field.Leadership skills are subpar.Plus other reasons I am sure.For those that say he has no personel on defense ... why is that. He is the main reason for that also. We are not talking about a first or hell, even a third year coach. He has been there long enough to "turn" the def, and yet ....Okay, that is my two cents. You may now begin the Steeler hater bashing.
Cincy homer here, Bengal fan since the early 70s.
This team sucks. They've sucked all season. How bad must the Ravens be if the Bengals beat them twice?
The only game in which they actually looked good was Tennessee. They struggled to beat the Jets and the Rams. They just lost to the Niners.
Time and time again--really, ever since winning the division in '05--this team has looked lost, confused and/or disinterested. Typical Bengals drive this year: incomplete pass (usually overthrown by Palmer), run for a few yards, incomplete pass, punt.
Why in the world do they keep turning to Rudi? It's pretty clear that his best days are behind him. Rudi into the pile for little or no gain.
I've been a big Palmer fan, but he's been way less than stellar this year. He's been Bengalized.
Lewis should be fired. Today wouldn't be too soon. However, that's not going to solve the root problem--Mike Brown and his inept, doomed-to-fail organization. As one of our local sports-talk guys said, losing is in this organization's DNA.
Prediction: The Dolphins won't go 0-16, because they'll beat the Bengals in the last game of the season. It's in Miami. Based on what we've seen this year, there's no reason at all to believe this Bengals team will show up to play. On the road, a lousy season, players probably concerned with getting on the plane and outta town for the offseason, and an opponent most likely desperate to avoid a historically bad season.
Literally EVERYONE here in Cincy thought that SF would be an easy win, but we see how that worked out.
Dolphins over Bengals. Mark it down. Maybe that will finally be enough humiliation to cost Marvin his job. He's become Dave Shula, Bruce Coslet, and **** LeBeau. Bengalized.
This team sucks. They've sucked all season. How bad must the Ravens be if the Bengals beat them twice?
The only game in which they actually looked good was Tennessee. They struggled to beat the Jets and the Rams. They just lost to the Niners.
Time and time again--really, ever since winning the division in '05--this team has looked lost, confused and/or disinterested. Typical Bengals drive this year: incomplete pass (usually overthrown by Palmer), run for a few yards, incomplete pass, punt.
Why in the world do they keep turning to Rudi? It's pretty clear that his best days are behind him. Rudi into the pile for little or no gain.
I've been a big Palmer fan, but he's been way less than stellar this year. He's been Bengalized.
Lewis should be fired. Today wouldn't be too soon. However, that's not going to solve the root problem--Mike Brown and his inept, doomed-to-fail organization. As one of our local sports-talk guys said, losing is in this organization's DNA.
Prediction: The Dolphins won't go 0-16, because they'll beat the Bengals in the last game of the season. It's in Miami. Based on what we've seen this year, there's no reason at all to believe this Bengals team will show up to play. On the road, a lousy season, players probably concerned with getting on the plane and outta town for the offseason, and an opponent most likely desperate to avoid a historically bad season.
Literally EVERYONE here in Cincy thought that SF would be an easy win, but we see how that worked out.
Dolphins over Bengals. Mark it down. Maybe that will finally be enough humiliation to cost Marvin his job. He's become Dave Shula, Bruce Coslet, and **** LeBeau. Bengalized.
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one game seems to have been everything to you hereI mentioned Odell and I think I'm confused here. Is it Pollack maybe? Who was the LB that looked terrific but his neck injury ended his career real quick? That guy and Chris Perry....just gotta throw out there to bad luck IMO.
Re character, I do think Lewis deserved the beatings he got previously for the ones they knew about and drafted anyway. However, I think the team has improved this year dramatically in the # of arrests. Yes it's pathetic that I even need to mention that BUT they haven't been an issue since the summer and he seemed to turn that around. Henry was suspended, right, for previous shenanigans. ....Look I was one of the one's that praised the Marvin hire and then was "all over him" for the arrests and I just think it's necessary to say it's better this year. This time last year, I think you would have said 5 months a year is progress. Of course, I'm guessing and all but please think back if you could.
Those WRs whining, there aren't many teams that don't have whiney WRs anymore and that's something that bugs me but (sadly) I resort to "at least they want the ball" thoughts. I have nothing nice to say about Moss and Owens words and actions or inactions and how I feel others have become similar. CJ and his cousin are loudmouths but I think some actually like CJ's fire and blow off his mouthiness.
I see more GM probs than coach probs really
You have a lot of valid points, but there is a whole lot going on in the locker room that we just don't know. To me this Bengals team just doesn't look like they are playing with a lot of fire, and IMHO that starts with the Head Coach.
slayer666
Footballguy
Without question Marvin Lewis should be fired, the Bengals are stagnant under his direction. The organization has finished .500 or worse in 16 of the past 17 seasons, so ownership and the front office in general need to take long looks at themselves in the mirror as well.In other words, since Paul Brown died and Mike Brown took over.Paul Brown was a football legend. He knew football. Mike Brown is a lawyer and businessman. He thinks he can do it Dad's way, but he's not Dad.Without question Marvin Lewis should be fired, the Bengals are stagnant under his direction. The organization has finished .500 or worse in 16 of the past 17 seasons, so ownership and the front office in general need to take long looks at themselves in the mirror as well.
