If Hitler would have ONLY invaded Russia? (1 Viewer)

[Eephus]

The Germans never tried before they were deeply involved in Russia for a push to the Suez.  And Rommel far exceded his orders and The logistics he had.  The point is if not involved in russia, concentration of the luftwaffe and u boats in the medeterrian would be possible along with the best panzer divisions. German air superoity negates the royal navy in the med. and insures the supplies get through for the 20 or so German divisions that would of been needed.  German numerical superiority vs. The british in these years practically insures success. This scenario was churchills biggest fear, and the german navys dream plan. 

That's 4x-5x more German divisions than there were at the peak of the actual campaign.  You have to add the 8-10 Italian divisions that weren't much for fighting but still consumed materiel.  It would be a formidable force if you could manage the logistics but I think you're overestimating the ability of the Germans to do that.  I don't think they could achieve air superiority and neutralize the ability of the Royal Navy to disrupt supply efforts.  Even if they could ferry supplies to Libya, the Eastern Mediterranean is a long ways away.  There was little ability to forage, no rail network and the handful of roads were well defended.

 

[Leroy Hoard]

The drugs and delusions didn't help. But he was a nut, so his idea that he was some sort of God is probably the reason he thought he could take over the world anyway. 

Might be the best thing about dictators. Hopefully that little freak in N. Korea has the same ending to his pathetic delusions.

 

[Hot Diggity Dog]

That's 4x-5x more German divisions than there were at the peak of the actual campaign.  You have to add the 8-10 Italian divisions that weren't much for fighting but still consumed materiel.  It would be a formidable force if you could manage the logistics but I think you're overestimating the ability of the Germans to do that.  I don't think they could achieve air superiority and neutralize the ability of the Royal Navy to disrupt supply efforts.  Even if they could ferry supplies to Libya, the Eastern Mediterranean is a long ways away.  There was little ability to forage, no rail network and the handful of roads were well defended.

Again the with the main strength of the luftwaffe we are talking thousands of war planes in theater instead of the few hundred historically. German air transport could of also been brought to bear.  Many panzer divisions were resupplied by air in the Russian campaign when they outran the normal logistical support. And in the winter of 41-42 pockets of surrounded German divisions in russia were supplied for months by air. The Germans were able to reinforce and supply 250,000 men in north Africa in Tunisia in the winter of 42-43, almost entirely by air, even after the losses in air transport at Stalingrad.  

So after the conquest of Greece and Crete there was an opportunity for the Germans.   British strength in Egypt was depleted by redeploying men to Greece and the losses there.  If Crete and Sicily were made major luftwaffe air bases along with others established along the Libyan coast any British ships attacking convoys from Italy are in great danger.  Further Libyan air bases with bombers can now hit Alexandria naval base and the Suez canal.  Air transport with Condor transport planes augment the convoys and keep Libyan air bases supplied.  Quick transfer of panzer divisions to north Africa followed by a push through Egypt.  With significant air support convoys can get through to Libyan ports closer to Egypt like Tobruck and Benghazi (!!).  Uboats depolyed against the British own highly extended supply chain around Africa and the bottleneck at Gibraltar threaten to turn the tables on the British and choke them out. 

And that's without considering a more concentrated diplomatic campaign directed against Turkey and Spain to either join the axis outright, allow German divisions to transport through their territory to attack Gibraltar and the middle East,  or face conquest by Germany thus allowing attacks on Gibraltar and the middle East. 

 

[GilbertGrape]

I played a very complex computer game called Hearts of Iron II that is about WWII. In one game I played as the USSR. The Germans invaded Poland, and then just stopped. Didn't do anything else except maybe take Denmark. Never invaded France. France and the U.K. never did anything. I finally got bored and declared war on Germany. The U.S. immediately declared war on the USSR and landed a huge army on my eastern shore. 

 

[SaintsInDome2006]

Been watching the History & military channels a lot lately & keep wondering.  Now I'm pretty sure Hitler would have to take Poland and a few others along the road to the motherland but is there any doubt that Russia would have fell in a giant heap?  Now I know France & England joined in after the invasion of Poland but do you really think they go all out if Germany ignores them & goes for Russia?  Would the world have even cared?

I love that you started this topic, but an important point - Germany & Russia invaded Poland together. Even after the U.K. & the Allies went to war with the Axis, Russia sat out. Without the Molotov-Ribbentrop deal WW2 likely never happens in the same way. Russia also invaded Finland and the Baltics. The whole reason for this is that the allies were counting on the USSR to side with them in an invasion. By splitting up eastern Europe Germany and Russia avoided that whole problem, because poland was essentially "gone" and with Russia out the allies supposedly would have no reason to invade. The only way this does not happen is if Russia had stood by the allies and threatened to join them in war vs Germany if it went into Poland. Russia selling everyone out essentially made war inevitable, because it meant Germany was definitely taking Poland. 

 

[SaintsInDome2006]

This is the 78th anniversary of the Russian invasion of Poland.

 

[kentric]

Again the with the main strength of the luftwaffe we are talking thousands of war planes in theater instead of the few hundred historically. German air transport could of also been brought to bear.  Many panzer divisions were resupplied by air in the Russian campaign when they outran the normal logistical support. And in the winter of 41-42 pockets of surrounded German divisions in russia were supplied for months by air. The Germans were able to reinforce and supply 250,000 men in north Africa in Tunisia in the winter of 42-43, almost entirely by air, even after the losses in air transport at Stalingrad.  

So after the conquest of Greece and Crete there was an opportunity for the Germans.   British strength in Egypt was depleted by redeploying men to Greece and the losses there.  If Crete and Sicily were made major luftwaffe air bases along with others established along the Libyan coast any British ships attacking convoys from Italy are in great danger.  Further Libyan air bases with bombers can now hit Alexandria naval base and the Suez canal.  Air transport with Condor transport planes augment the convoys and keep Libyan air bases supplied.  Quick transfer of panzer divisions to north Africa followed by a push through Egypt.  With significant air support convoys can get through to Libyan ports closer to Egypt like Tobruck and Benghazi (!!).  Uboats deployed against the British own highly extended supply chain around Africa and the bottleneck at Gibraltar threaten to turn the tables on the British and choke them out. 

And that's without considering a more concentrated diplomatic campaign directed against Turkey and Spain to either join the axis outright, allow German divisions to transport through their territory to attack Gibraltar and the middle East,  or face conquest by Germany thus allowing attacks on Gibraltar and the middle East. 

I was also going to say that in this scenario Germany would have made strong headway via their air superiority.  All you have to do is look at what happened in Crete.  Britain controlled the seas, but the Luftwaffe controlled the air.  With control of a base in Libya and repair and stationing of an air base in Crete, the Germans could have put quite a bit of pressure on the British forces in Egypt.