Alex P Keaton
Footballguy
Yeah. Hopefully they read this thread so BB can benefit from your strategic advice to sign Dez.
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Indefinite New England Patriots Thread (3 Viewers)
- Thread starter captain_amazing
- Start date
Bossman
Footballguy
Bossmans Bold Prediction:
As thin as they are at WR, the Edleman suspension will force NE to keep another receiving option (WR / TE / RB) that they might not otherwise have kept.
Look for a guy like TE Ryan Izzo to make the team and get a chance to play early. Had Edleman been available, my guess is they would opt to practice squad Izzo.
Izzo looks like a potentially decent receiving option while still capable of run blocking and / or playing FB.
Allen and Tye don't seem to be anything special and may actually be on the decline. Wouldn't not surprise me if one or both were cut.
As thin as they are at WR, the Edleman suspension will force NE to keep another receiving option (WR / TE / RB) that they might not otherwise have kept.
Look for a guy like TE Ryan Izzo to make the team and get a chance to play early. Had Edleman been available, my guess is they would opt to practice squad Izzo.
Izzo looks like a potentially decent receiving option while still capable of run blocking and / or playing FB.
Allen and Tye don't seem to be anything special and may actually be on the decline. Wouldn't not surprise me if one or both were cut.
Anarchy99
Footballguy
IMO, unless another cheaper blocking TE becomes available as a cut from someplace else, Allen is a lock to make the team. With him and Gronk, it makes up for what could be a weaker OL than NE is used to (at least to start the season).
I still don't see what all the fuss is about in terms of receiving options. Hogan, Dorsett, Patterson, Gronk, Hollister, White, Burkhead, and dump offs to Michel are 8 guys they can turn to in a game (with an occasional toss to Develin or Allen).
Tye will be gone and they may keep someone like Berrios or McCarron on the 53-man roster (but inactive on game day) just in case until Edelman returns.
Like every other year, there could be a lot of roster shuffling between now and next Sunday.
EDIT TO ADD: Allen has agreed to restructure his contract and accept less money for this season. So he's sticking around.
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JuniorGong
Footballguy
It is not an easy offense for someone new to pick up, not sure I want to see them give up much for a year of Golden Tate when he could easily struggle to pick things up. A healthy Gronk makes up for a lot and I think James White is poised to play a big role in the passing game especially the first month.
Anarchy99
Footballguy
There is nothing to the Golden Tate stuff. It was a beat reporter that hypothetically picked the type of player that might fit in NE if they were considering someone to target. If they pick up someone, I am guessing they would either bring back Brandon LaFell or wait until after Week 1 and re-sign Kenny Britt if he is healthy (when his contract would be week to week and not guaranteed). Both of those options would at least have had some exposure to the playbook.
JuniorGong
Footballguy
Got it, so people are basically freaking out because they don't have Amendola and Cooks. Cooks was a non-factor in the SB (1 catch, 23 yards) while Amendola was clutch (8 catches, 152 yards). They get Edelman back after 4 games though which if he is healthy is an upgrade from Amendola. Granted, I get that their depth is gone so any injuries could really hurt them but to me I agree a much better move would be signing a LaFell or picking Britt back up as opposed to spending any draft capital. Additionally, who knows who might become available during final cuts.
Anarchy99
Footballguy
Cooks was a non-factor in the quarter he played in the SB before getting lit up and knocked out of the game. There has been some discussion and debate (not by me) that Cook getting knocked out of the game changed what the Pats could do and impacted the outcome of the game. I am in the camp that the Eagles won because the NE defense was a couple of notches below horrid and Cook being around would not have changed anything that the defense did.
However, Cook got hurt a little more than a minute into the 2nd quarter with NE trailing 9-3. That drive stalled at the PHI 35 after the failed pass to Brady, and as BB has been known to do, opted to go for it on 4th and 5 rather than try a 52 yard FG attempt. Instead, Brady threw a deep pass that went incomplete to Gronk for a turnover on downs.
Their next drive, Brady hit Burkhead on a dump off that went for almost 50 yards. Three passes for close to nothing resulted in a FG. Other than that play to Burkhead, the offense did pretty much nothing on 7 plays over two drives and they didn't look right without Cooks. They made adjustments after those two drives and then went on 4 straight 80 yard TD scoring drives. But offensively, those first two drives ended up costing them (although IMO it was the defense that buried them).
Anarchy99
Footballguy
Like last year, NE has given Gronk more incentives. But no extension. Per Schefter . . .
The Patriots have given Rob Gronkowski the opportunity to earn $4.3 million more this season through per-game roster bonuses and statistical incentives.
At the highest level, Gronk's salary will jump to $13.3 million if he hits all his bonuses and incentives. On top of his $8 million base, Gronk will earn a $1.1 million bonus for each of the following: If he plays 80 percent of the Patriots' snaps, catches 70 or more passes, scores nine or more touchdowns, or surpasses 1,085 receiving yards.
Leave it to NE to find away to get around paying out money that for other players of Gronk's caliber would be guaranteed. If Gronk gets hurt (Brady too for that matter), he won't hit any of those.
The Patriots have given Rob Gronkowski the opportunity to earn $4.3 million more this season through per-game roster bonuses and statistical incentives.
At the highest level, Gronk's salary will jump to $13.3 million if he hits all his bonuses and incentives. On top of his $8 million base, Gronk will earn a $1.1 million bonus for each of the following: If he plays 80 percent of the Patriots' snaps, catches 70 or more passes, scores nine or more touchdowns, or surpasses 1,085 receiving yards.
Leave it to NE to find away to get around paying out money that for other players of Gronk's caliber would be guaranteed. If Gronk gets hurt (Brady too for that matter), he won't hit any of those.
Anarchy99
Footballguy
BREAKING SPECULATION . . .
Ryan Hannable uses deductive reasoning to conclude that there is a decent chance that Sony Michel or Rex Burkhead will be heading to IR as the Pats Designated For Return player. His rationale is that both Jeremy Hill and Mike Gillislee practiced with players that won't be playing tonight. He expects this means NE will keep 6 RBs. To place a player on IR-DFA, the player must start the year on the initial 53-man roster, and there is not a lot of practical reason to keep 6 RBs.
If true, that dramatically boosts the value of the other RB and makes Jeremy Hill fantasy relevant.
LINK
The only other thing I could think of is if NE has worked out a trade involving either Hill or Gillisle, but I am not sure either player would bring all that much in return.
Ryan Hannable uses deductive reasoning to conclude that there is a decent chance that Sony Michel or Rex Burkhead will be heading to IR as the Pats Designated For Return player. His rationale is that both Jeremy Hill and Mike Gillislee practiced with players that won't be playing tonight. He expects this means NE will keep 6 RBs. To place a player on IR-DFA, the player must start the year on the initial 53-man roster, and there is not a lot of practical reason to keep 6 RBs.
If true, that dramatically boosts the value of the other RB and makes Jeremy Hill fantasy relevant.
LINK
The only other thing I could think of is if NE has worked out a trade involving either Hill or Gillisle, but I am not sure either player would bring all that much in return.
SeniorVBDStudent
Footballguy
What caught my eye was Marquis Flowers supposedly on the bubble.
If the theory is correct, you would think its Michel that will go on IRDFR.
Anarchy99
Footballguy
They were talking about the situation on tonight's broadcast. They definitely felt Michel isn't ready and basically is at the point as a rookie where he should be starting training camp.
The mystery is Burkhead's health. I have heard / read / seen that they have been holding him out as a precaution, but we all know the Pats won't give a straight answer. At this point, Michel hasn't done much on the field and would probably take a few weeks to get up to speed (and thus would see a very limited workload).
IMO, Burkhead played most of camp and obviously knows the playbook and has been in the league. I think he missed 10 days or so and came back sooner than Michel. I'm guessing he will be the one that is active but might get a lighter workload Week 1. Maybe he plays fewer snaps than usual.
Boston
Footballguy
Hill is a great end-of-the-bench fantasy add...he may get a legit opportunity to produce and if he can show a semblance of what he was as a rookie (and Burkhead and/or Michel can't get healthy) he could be very productive...the kid is still only 25 so he is worth a roll of the dice...
Bossman
Footballguy
looking at their last 5 drafts .. really nothing spectacular coming from any of them considering how many picks they've had (granted none early in the 1st rd).Jordan Richards(a 2nd round pick 2 years ago) dealt for a 7th. Seems like a lot of early round picks aren't panning out, that's going to catch up at some point.
Patriots Draft History
Names that stand out to me; Garapollo ... and maybe Tre Flowers.
Of all of the other picks that would still be on their rookie deal, average to below average at best.
To be fair, a look at some other teams shows they've done no better so it's not like BB is bad at his job.
One glaring issue is they can not draft a quality DB. At some point I think BB needs to consider changing the DB coach.
They look great coming out of college with all their pass defendeds and int's ... and slowly turn into "can't turn and find the ball".
example; the kid in the last pre-season game, stride for stride, touching the WR with one hand, while looking back for the ball the last 5 yards.
Goes up and is able to make the int. Give him one year of coaching and he's staring at the WR as the ball comes in and trying to break up the pass once the ball gets there. Can't intercept a pass if you're not turning your head.
JuniorGong
Footballguy
While this is true the one thing I give BB the GM credit for is he will make roster cuts with no thought to where he drafted someone. The vast majority of GM’s in the NFL will resist cutting the cord on a borderline roster player if they drafted them high because they don’t want it to be a black mark on them.Jordan Richards(a 2nd round pick 2 years ago) dealt for a 7th. Seems like a lot of early round picks aren't panning out, that's going to catch up at some point.
SeniorVBDStudent
Footballguy
Just to revisit this, you don't think there's any scenario where McDaniels tries to redeploy the Gronk / Hernandez package with Gronk / Hollister?
And that the Allen restructuring allows them to do this?
Boston
Footballguy
I think there is a very easy scenario for this to happen and it entails Hollister being nearly as good as a Hernandez...I think people tend to forget just how talented Hernandez was...I like the progress Hollister is making and he looks like he will have a role this year but it is a giant leap of faith to think he can step in and be anything close to Hernandez....I don’t see Allen having anything to do with this...while he is not what they thought they were getting he is a solid blocking TE that they trust...they now can keep him at a more reasonabe rate since he was vastly overpaid prior to it...
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Anarchy99
Footballguy
I know it's trendy to throw shade on BB the GM, particularly on his draft history. But like I have mentioned many times, trying to come up with star players typically drafting the last few picks of the first round isn't that easy.
Here are all the last 5 picks in the first round for the last 10 drafts before this one for players that were not NE picks.
2008
Antoine Cason DB
Lawrence Jackson, DE SEA
Kentwalm Balmer DT SFO
Dustin Keller TE NYJ
Kenny Phillips DB NYG
(NE pick forfeited, other pick used on Jerod Mayo)
2009
Eric Wood C BUF
Hakeem Nicks WR NYG
Kenny Britt WR TEN
Beanie Wells RB ARI
Evander Hood DE PIT
(NE traded back)
2010
Jared Odrick DE MIA
Kyle Wilson DB NYJ
Jahvid Best RB DET
Jerry Hughes DE IND
Patrick Robinson DB NOS
(NE picked Devin McCourty)
2011
Mark Ingram RB NOS
Gabe Carimi T CHI
Muhammad Wilkerson DT NYJ
Cameron Heyward DT PIT
Derrick Sherrod T GBP
(NE drafted Nate Solder)
2012
Keivin Zeitler G CIN
Nick Perry DE GBP
Harrison Smith DB MIN
A.J. Jenkins WR SFO
Doug Martin RB TBB
(NE picked Chandler Jones and Dont'a Hightower)
2013
Sylvester Williams DT DEN
Cordarrelle Patterson WR MIN
Alec Ogletree LB LAR
Travis Frederick C DAL
Matt Elam DB BAL
(NE traded back)
2014
Deone Bucannon DB ARI
Kelvin Benjamin CAR WR
Jimmy Ward DB SFO
Bradley Roby DB DEN
Teddy Bridgewater QB MIN
(NE picked Dominique Easley)
2015
Byron Jones DB DAL
Laken Tomlinson G DET
Phillip Dorsett WR IND
Damarious Randall DB GBP
Stephone Anthony LB NOS
(NE picked Malcolm Brown)
2016
Kenny Clark DT GBP
Joshua Garnett G SFO
Robert Nkemdiche DT ARI
Vernon Butler DT CAR
Germain Ifeti G SEA
(NE pick forfeited)
2017
Taco Charlton DE DAL
David Njoku TE CLE
T.J. Watt LB PIT
Reuben Foster LB SFO
Ryan Ramczyk T NOS
(NE pick traded for Brandin Cooks)
Based on that, in context, I thing NE did a decent job given where they typically have to draft from. Not many of those late first round picks by other teams turned into impact players, and a bunch of them just plan fizzled.
Anarchy99
Footballguy
I am sure there will be times where they run out Gronk and Hollister together in dual TE sets against specific opponents. But I don't think they will use that as a base package on offense. And as Boston mentioned, I would not consider Hollister in the same skill set as Hernandez. Hollister has some potential, but I think we are a long way from him getting onto the field and putting up solid receiving numbers.
SeniorVBDStudent
Footballguy
In addition to Gillislee, QB Etling got the axe per nfl.com
SeniorVBDStudent
Footballguy
Lions kept Matt Cassell over newbie Jake Rudock.
SeniorVBDStudent
Footballguy
SeniorVBDStudent
Footballguy
Flowers and Bolden cut. Final cuts listed on patriots.com.
Anarchy99
Footballguy
Bolden will probably be back. Like last year, I am guessing that they will sign him after the first week and pay him week to week instead of having his salary guaranteed. I expect a lot of roster moves between now and next Sunday.Flowers and Bolden cut. Final cuts listed on patriots.com.
I read that TE Ryan Izzo will be the player tabbed IR-DFA, which seems like an odd choice as I would not think he would have a big enough role to use that designation on him.
SeniorVBDStudent
Footballguy
rockaction
Footballguy
Just grabbed Jeremy Hill in a sixteen-teamer, sixteen-rounder because I think Michel is missing for at least a few more weeks and Gillislee was realeased. Who did I drop? Warren III, who is on now on year-long (?) IR while clearly not being injured in the least.
So I guess this Jets fan can give the Patriots the weakest, most effeminate "Go Pats" and wish their bigger backs well.
So I guess this Jets fan can give the Patriots the weakest, most effeminate "Go Pats" and wish their bigger backs well.
Anarchy99
Footballguy
Michel limited at practice. I would be surprised if he played this week.
Burkhead not even listed on the injury report, so that should tell us who is most likely to get a decent workload this week.
Hollister listed as limited.
Cannon listed as a full participant (which is good news for both the ground and air games).
WR Kendall Wright in for a tryout.
White always a threat to get a ton of dump offs. It will depend how HOU plays them. However, in 4 games against the Texans over the past 3 years, White only had 7 total receptions.
Burkhead not even listed on the injury report, so that should tell us who is most likely to get a decent workload this week.
Hollister listed as limited.
Cannon listed as a full participant (which is good news for both the ground and air games).
WR Kendall Wright in for a tryout.
White always a threat to get a ton of dump offs. It will depend how HOU plays them. However, in 4 games against the Texans over the past 3 years, White only had 7 total receptions.
LAUNCH
Footballguy
https://twitter.com/jeffphowe/status/1037748428388933632
With Rex Burkhead, the Patriots, internally, believe he is going to be a star if he stays healthy, especially without Edelman. Burkhead isn’t on the injury report, could’ve played in the preseason if it weren’t just the preseason. He’s ready to roll.
With Rex Burkhead, the Patriots, internally, believe he is going to be a star if he stays healthy, especially without Edelman. Burkhead isn’t on the injury report, could’ve played in the preseason if it weren’t just the preseason. He’s ready to roll.
Casting Couch
Footballguy
Riley McCarron - WR - Patriots
Patriots promoted WR Riley McCarron from the practice squad.
The 2017 UDFA was hyped as a roster possibility for most of the summer before getting let go at final cuts. He's now back in time for Week 1 and could see immediate snaps in the slot. Playing for a receiver-desperate team, McCarron is worth a flier in Dynasty leagues.
Source: Field Yates on Twitter
Sep 6 - 5:42 PM
Patriots promoted WR Riley McCarron from the practice squad.
The 2017 UDFA was hyped as a roster possibility for most of the summer before getting let go at final cuts. He's now back in time for Week 1 and could see immediate snaps in the slot. Playing for a receiver-desperate team, McCarron is worth a flier in Dynasty leagues.
Source: Field Yates on Twitter
Sep 6 - 5:42 PM
SaintsInDome2006
Footballguy
I guess because there are points there. I struggle trying to understand what Dorsett and Patterson will do. What is the breakdown by receiver position?
Who is actually filling Edelman's position? Would it be Patterson by default?
Hogan I take it has the same role.
I take it that Dorsett fills in for Cooks on the outside.
Who takes over for Amendola in the slot?
I realize that I might be confusing things a bit but there are so many points and opportunities to be had that (it seems year after year) this is a worthwhile exercise to go through.
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Anarchy99
Footballguy
I’ve tried my best to answer as best I can. In 0 PPR leagues, only once did NE have 3 WR’s in the same year have 75 fantasy points.
Even now, trying to figure who best fits which more standard roles is mostly not applicable, because the Pats will use a WR, TE, or RB for any of them. Add in that they will do something completely different from one game to the next and it will be hard to figure out. Almost like positionless basketball, just offensive skill positions instead.
Without Edelman, all it means is they will play 2 TE or 2 RB more. I would expect both White and Burkhead to be pretty active as receivers.
There will likely be games when Patterson, Dorsett, or a 2nd TE does something but they might not do much for another 6 games. Bottom line, as WR go in NE, I don’t think they will have another consistent contributor past Hogan and Edelman (once he gets back).
Anarchy99
Footballguy
In a move that should shock no one, NE cut WR/KR Riley McCarron after he dropped a fair catch on a punt yesterday that gave the Texans life. They put Hill on IR and also cut WR CHad Hansen. That frees up three roster spots . . . no idea who they are going to replace those folks with.
Boston
Footballguy
Boston
Footballguy
Corey Coleman in for a visit...
https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2018/09/10/corey-coleman-worked-out-for-patriots-set-to-visit-eagles/
https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2018/09/10/corey-coleman-worked-out-for-patriots-set-to-visit-eagles/
Anarchy99
Footballguy
And signed to a one year deal. Since people will ask, IMO it is highly unlikely he has much of a role any time soon. Best case is he learns the offense this year and they bring him back next year and has a bigger role in Year Two (similar to Dorsett this year).
Also added WR Bennie Fowler.
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Boston
Footballguy
Anarchy99
Footballguy
The annual sky is falling narrative has started to present itself again. NE got out everythinged in Jacksonville. The Jags played and coached great and NE didn't. Pretty simple.
I went back and reviewed how NE has done historically. Since 2001, they have been.500 or worse in September four times, and in three of those seasons went on to win the SB.
Here is their overall record by month . . .
September - 40-17 (.702)
October - 55-16 (.775)
November - 48-17 (.738)
December - 62-11 (.849)
January - 27-10 (.730)
February - 5-3 (.625)
The December total includes three Week 17 losses when they had nothing to play for and benched most of their starters for significant portions of the game or else they could have been 65-8 (.890).
The point being, even though things might look out of sorts now, history suggests that they will right the ship and get on track in a few games.
I went back and reviewed how NE has done historically. Since 2001, they have been.500 or worse in September four times, and in three of those seasons went on to win the SB.
Here is their overall record by month . . .
September - 40-17 (.702)
October - 55-16 (.775)
November - 48-17 (.738)
December - 62-11 (.849)
January - 27-10 (.730)
February - 5-3 (.625)
The December total includes three Week 17 losses when they had nothing to play for and benched most of their starters for significant portions of the game or else they could have been 65-8 (.890).
The point being, even though things might look out of sorts now, history suggests that they will right the ship and get on track in a few games.
Ditkaless Wonders
Footballguy
I like it that often N.E. gives their division and conference hope in September. Its very considerate of them. Its November and December where they get rude and selfish and insist on winning al of the time. Its that late in the year behavior which keeps the other kids from wanting to have play dates with them, selfish creatures.
Ghost Rider
Footballguy
Why would the sky be falling? September is never their best month under Belichick, and they were beaten by a better all-around team.