JuniorGong
Footballguy
Great win but really hurts their draft position for next year
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Indefinite New England Patriots Thread (4 Viewers)
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SeniorVBDStudent
Footballguy
SeniorVBDStudent
Footballguy
TEN and OAK are not chopped liver. HOU and MIA are not bad football teams who "got lucky" beating other teams but lost to NE because they are "very weak".
Was a great game for our Pats ... but against a very weak MIA team (but so was DET). MIA was lucky to be 3-0 beating TEN, NYJ, OAK.
Really liked the fact that Pats had the run game going early ... then they went away from it for no apparent reason.
My concerns with the defense are lowered a notch but I still don't have a lot of confidence in that side of the ball vs a quality offense.
Pats got spanked by Jacksonville (that was 10 years in the making) and then lost to Patricia sans Flowers and Chung.
I'm glad the Pats got smoked by the Jaguars. The Dark Lord will use this later in the season. You already know what I'm talking about.
Edelman is back. Gordon is ramping up. Michel and White are getting north of 5 YPC. Touchdown's to Dorsett and Patterson were icing on the cake.
Plus or minus Gronk's ankle, the death star is nearly operational.
I find your lack of faith disturbing.
Was a great game for our Pats ... but against a very weak MIA team (but so was DET). MIA was lucky to be 3-0 beating TEN, NYJ, OAK.
Really liked the fact that Pats had the run game going early ... then they went away from it for no apparent reason.
My concerns with the defense are lowered a notch but I still don't have a lot of confidence in that side of the ball vs a quality offense.
Like almost all things debated around here, the truth will lie somewhere in the middle. The likely outcome is a 10 or 11 win division title.
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Insoxicated
JuniorGong said:
Some real funny chatter in here over the last week. The spineless fans showing their “when the going gets tough, quit” mindset is always entertaining.
Welcome back Julian. Meet Josh and Sony. Rob’s in the corner shotgunning beers if you need him.
On to week 5.
Bossman
Footballguy
True, I'm not your "typical" rose colored glasses Pats fan
Some real funny chatter in here over the last week. The spineless fans showing their “when the going gets tough, quit” mindset is always entertaining.
Welcome back Julian. Meet Josh and Sony. Rob’s in the corner shotgunning beers if you need him.
On to week 5.
Bossman
Big win last week against a MIA team most expected to finish last in the AFC East.
...This weeks game vs IND still isn't much of a test.Gonna have everyone in NE back on the SB bandwagon now.
True test will be week 6, home vs KC. Jules and Gordon will be up and running so no excuses on offense against a pretty awful KC defense.
... but I'm much more interested in seeing the defense stop somebody besides a MIA team that traded away their best WR in Landry ... and also had Parker sitting out.
The way KC played against DEN, a much more talented team on defense than NE, I figure them to put up 40 points on NE.
NE defense is still a problem and will continue to be a problem for this team regardless of the boost on offense from Jules / Gordon.
Maybe Sanyo Michelle can limit the offensive touches on the other team by grinding out clock but not going to help when they're playing from behind.
Anarchy99
Footballguy
PFF with some interesting player rankings through the first month. Decent producers from NE so far (with position ranking):
- Andrews (2)
- Flowers (3)
- JMcCourty (6)
- Gronk (6)
- Develin (7)
- JC Jackson not enough snaps to qualify, or else he would be in the Top 3-5 CBs
- Andrews (2)
- Flowers (3)
- JMcCourty (6)
- Gronk (6)
- Develin (7)
- JC Jackson not enough snaps to qualify, or else he would be in the Top 3-5 CBs
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Insoxicated
Surprised to see Hightower at only 19th Ranked and with a 70.8 grade.
Brady 75.2pts at 18th best QB.
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Bossman
Footballguy
Pats catching a huge break tonight with IND players out. Jules back, Gordon another week groomed... Home game helps the situation even further.Phenomena said:
SHOULD be an easy win for them ... but that's what we said about DET.
They lose this one and my shtick will be off the HOOK tomorrow.
Anarchy99
Footballguy
Since Edelman became a starter, NE has gone 34-7 (.829) when Brady, Edelman, and Gronkowski have all played together. The last time they were able to play together was in November of 2016 against the Jets, the game when Gronk came in for a couple of plays (he was already banged up) and then couldn't go anymore and went on IR.
Anarchy99
Footballguy
NE has released running back Kenjon Barner to make room for Julian Edelman on the active roster. This means the team will only have two active backs against the Colts in Sony Michel and James White. At some point in the near future they need to add a RB. Can't see Michel and White lasting the rest of the season without someone else to come in and give them a breather at times.
SeniorVBDStudent
Footballguy
fred_1_15301
Footballguy
msommer
Footballguy
Bossman
Footballguy
What happened to Brandon Bolden, last I knew he was on the roster after cutdowns this season.
Anarchy99
Footballguy
Bossman
Footballguy
That IND team was even worse than MIA on offense. Really depleted without their RB1, WR1, TE1, and on their 3rd string RT?
They still managed to get within 7 points in the second half.
Course the gift int's had a bit to do with that ... but still.
Flying Elvis
Footballguy
This has been my biggest gripe, and a topic of conversation with a few friends lately. Brady keeps taking "team friendly" deals so there's room to sign other players.... Where the fudgsicles are these unicorns? (Black Unicorn notwithstanding)
I was mentioned that the talent level on this team was much, much better when Pioli was here. It's impossible to argue that. It's been a parade of JAGs and highly questionable payouts to players nobody else thought should be that expensive (remember Leigh Bodden?) but the big money saved on TB's contract goes there.
At this point I can't really tell if it's just terrible scouting / player evaluation or BB just straight thinking he can turn water into wine. Either way, there's cause for concern.
Anarchy99
Footballguy
Apparently you haven't been keeping up. Can't remember if it was in this thread or a TB12 one, but Brady's team friendly deals aren't as team friendly as they appear. He just takes money upfront, has a bunch of guaranteed money, or gets bonuses and incentives that disguise what he makes. So fans and the media look at it and say HE'S ONLY MAKING $14 MILLION THIS YEAR. But his salary cap number is much higher.
So this year Brady has a $22 million cap hit (plus a bunch of performance incentives that can drive up his total) and a $27 million cap hit next year . . . even though they will only pay him $14 million in salary each year. He still could be considered underpaid and have an even greater cap hit if he insisted on getting max value compared to his peers, but his "discount" is not as dramatic as some people make it out to be.
A lot of things have changed since Pioli was around. For starters, there has been an explosion in salaries for top tier players . . . meaning the fair to mid-land guys want their cut as well and a lot of players that aren't stars are getting paid like they are. I agree that NE had a better core in the past, but that was a blend of hitting on some really good draft picks and taking in cast offs from other organizations. Both of those are tough to do really well consistently. Seemingly now all they do is draft guys that were hurt in college (or get hurt as soon as they come to NE).
And let's not forget that 15 years ago teams weren't chucking the ball 60 times a game and passing for 400 yards on a regular basis. Guess what, lots of teams can't cover the pass either now . . . it's not just NE.
But to repeat myself, part of the reason why NE seems to have less talent is that they don't ever choose to go all in. Some people say they are cheap and won't pay their players, but that's how they stay competitive. They don't over spend and BB has proven that he can coach up average talent. I don't think we are covering any new ground here. They play to make it to the Final Four each year and hope that good health, good coaching, and mistakes by the opposition can get them farther than that.
Bossman
Footballguy
OK my "glass half full" Pats fans...
They made easy work of the formerly undefeated Dolphins and now coming off an easy win vs the Colts last week.
Edleman back, Josh Gordon with 3 weeks to assimilate to the system, Sony Michele now looking like he's up to game speed, team at full strength / mostly healthy with a full 10 days to heal from the last game.
... so tell me what I should expect to see Sunday night, at home, vs KC. Predictions, game plans and such. Give me your opinion / best guess at what will happen.
They made easy work of the formerly undefeated Dolphins and now coming off an easy win vs the Colts last week.
Edleman back, Josh Gordon with 3 weeks to assimilate to the system, Sony Michele now looking like he's up to game speed, team at full strength / mostly healthy with a full 10 days to heal from the last game.
... so tell me what I should expect to see Sunday night, at home, vs KC. Predictions, game plans and such. Give me your opinion / best guess at what will happen.
JuniorGong
Footballguy
Just need someone to convince Andy Reid it is a playoff game and they will win easilyBossman said:
Tanner9919
Footballguy
so true!NFL Network this morning ran a story about opposing QBs playing Pats for the first time under BB - those QB's are a combine 1-41 W/L
revenge game for BB remember he got blown out by KC last season.payback time.
I'm not a Pats fan, but the Chiefs are up against this week..and this should kick off the patented Andy Reid midseason collapse.
Flying Elvis
Footballguy
DST not allowed; last possession wins... 70-67ish... lol.
Bossman
Footballguy
Tru dat.
As a Pats fan, I certainly hope they take the reigns off of Brady this week.
Hard to imagine this wont be a track meet.
SengerCJ
Footballguy
Not sure I’d put money on the pats but they do have a few things leaning in their favor.
-Home game.
-10 days to prepare following a game where it felt like they were able to go on cruise control after halftime.
-Edelman two full weeks back, plenty of time to shake off the rust.
-Gordon will now be almost 3 weeks in the offense.
-Eric Murray, Eric Berry, Justin Houston all likely out for KC with Kpassagnon questionable. Which, to my knowledge, is a big chunk of their defense.
-Primetime game against a young QB starting in his 2nd primetime game, keep in mind the game where the Broncos nearly beat the Chiefs was also primetime.
It should be a very interesting game.
-Home game.
-10 days to prepare following a game where it felt like they were able to go on cruise control after halftime.
-Edelman two full weeks back, plenty of time to shake off the rust.
-Gordon will now be almost 3 weeks in the offense.
-Eric Murray, Eric Berry, Justin Houston all likely out for KC with Kpassagnon questionable. Which, to my knowledge, is a big chunk of their defense.
-Primetime game against a young QB starting in his 2nd primetime game, keep in mind the game where the Broncos nearly beat the Chiefs was also primetime.
It should be a very interesting game.
Bossman
Footballguy
All excellent points.SengerCJ said:
Some things going against the Patriots:
- Tyreek Hill - Uber fast and shifty. Not a good matchup for NE DB's.
- Kareem Hunt - Pats have been playing well vs the run the past 2 weeks ... but against MIA and IND. They've yet to stop the run vs a talented RB that can also make plays via the pass
- Kelce - Big, plodding LB's on NE are not going to be able to match up with this guy. Going to need a S and some more to slow him down.
If they do choose to double team him, KC should have a field day throwing the ball to Hill and Watkins one on one outside and over the middle.
- Mahomes - vs below avg passing defenses, this guy has thrown for 4,6, and 3 TD's. DEN and JAX were able to slow him down ... so he just ran it into the end zone on them.
Team Smokin'
Footballguy
Ditto on Gronk and be nice to see Edelman catch 10 balls for 100 yards and a score or two.
Sony Michel came up questionable and game-time decision? Really? I can also see James White be highly involved. Michel expected to be a big part of this track meet. If he doesn't go because of some fluke injury who else rushes the ball now?
40 - 37 Gostskowski last second FG.
Anarchy99
Footballguy
Saw an interesting stat line on Brady so far. On passes 10-20 yards downfield, he has a QB rating of 127.1 on throws to the left, 146.8 in the middle, and 120.0 to the right. The league average is 84.0, 95.6, and 86.5. But on deep throws his passer rating appears to be 0.0.
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SengerCJ
Footballguy
Also excellent points. I’m not very optimistic but I feel this is the best week they could have played them, don’t think they would have stood a chance during the first 5 weeks against KC.
Bossman
Footballguy
Thankfully Pats D held KC to field goals to start the game.
Mahomes had receivers open but missed a couple that could have been TD's.
He sharpened up in the second half and seemed like KC was scoring at will.
Was a big win for the Pats but this defense is still a problem ... despite how they looked vs MIA and IND.
Mahomes had receivers open but missed a couple that could have been TD's.
He sharpened up in the second half and seemed like KC was scoring at will.
Was a big win for the Pats but this defense is still a problem ... despite how they looked vs MIA and IND.
JuniorGong
Footballguy
Anarchy99
Footballguy
I partly agree and partly disagree. Mahomes missed some throws because the defense had him running for his life and were in his face on several occasions. I couple times he missed guys that were open when he wasn't under duress.
But that's how things go in today's NFL. High scoring teams only need a couple stops on defense to win. In the 11 playoff games last year, a team scored 30+ points 7 times including 3 times when a team scored 40+ points. Games have just become high scoring track meets.
We are almost done with Week 6 of the regular season this year. Collectively, teams have scored 30+ points 53 times already and 40+ points 15 times. The days of consistent, shut down defenses seems to have left us.
For as shaky as they have played, the Pats are currently would be the #2 seed in the AFC. The Pats may not have been all that great so far, but which teams in the AFC have been stellar?
Bossman
Footballguy
Good points.
Really no AFC team that is strong on both sides of the ball this year. I thought JAX might be in that category but they've seemed to have lost something as of late.
The vibe that I got from this game vs KC was not that NE earned a hard fought victory ... but more so that KC mistakes made NE fortunate to get the win.
NE defense got a couple of critical key turnovers, one in the end zone, but that felt more like a mistake by a rookie QB than great defensive play by NE.
NE had their own mistakes. The 97 yard kickoff return was so bad. Chalk that up as an aberration ... and wth was that pooched kickoff? Real head scratcher.
I really want to be all in on this years team but not sure how anyone can be confident when their defense is so bad.
Team is giving up 24.7 ppg avg this year vs 18.5 last year, 15.6 the year before.
One thing for sure ... Brady and co. better keep the pedal to the metal because that's the only way they are going to win vs a quality opponent.
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Anarchy99
Footballguy
The Patriots have gotten this far by 1) making fewer mistakes than their opposition, 2) (usually) better coaching, and 3) having Tom Brady. That's their secret formula in a nutshell (which is not exactly covering any new ground). If they have two out of three on that short list, that often is good enough to win. We collectively have been rehashing this simple formula for years now.
Opposing players make a big mistake or a costly penalty. Coaches make a critical error or have no clock management skills. I'll be the first to admit that a lot of times they flat out got lucky (see PIT game last year).
If we go back to the 2003-2004 era, NE won a lot of games, but they didn't win by very much and many of those games came down to the last possession or last few minutes. They usually didn't blow anyone out, but they did enough to win.
So instead of barely winning 20-17, now they are barely winning 43-40. But as Brady said the other day, a win is still a win whether it is 3-0 or 41-38. We'll see how the rest of the season goes, but the team that looks like the one the Pats need to watch out for is probably Baltimore.
How could they possibly make this work?
Patrick Peterson - DB - Cardinals
CBS Sports' Bryant McFadden reports Patrick Peterson's "ideal trade destination" is the Saints, while the Patriots and Eagles have also showed interested in acquiring Peterson.
The Cardinals have been adamant that Peterson won't be traded, but Peterson has requested a trade and "wants out" of the desert. Arizona has zero use for Peterson as the worst team in the league in a complete rebuild. Peterson offers this organization more value by bringing in draft picks/young players to aid in the process while he's still in his prime and can fetch a nice haul. Still 28, Peterson is signed through 2020. Peterson played his college ball at LSU.
Related: Patriots, Saints, Eagles
Patrick Peterson - DB - Cardinals
CBS Sports' Bryant McFadden reports Patrick Peterson's "ideal trade destination" is the Saints, while the Patriots and Eagles have also showed interested in acquiring Peterson.
The Cardinals have been adamant that Peterson won't be traded, but Peterson has requested a trade and "wants out" of the desert. Arizona has zero use for Peterson as the worst team in the league in a complete rebuild. Peterson offers this organization more value by bringing in draft picks/young players to aid in the process while he's still in his prime and can fetch a nice haul. Still 28, Peterson is signed through 2020. Peterson played his college ball at LSU.
Related: Patriots, Saints, Eagles
Bossman
Footballguy
Peterson is a $15m cap hit and NE has $0 cap space.
Suppose NE could trade Gronk straight up for him. He's at almost $12m.
Then cut Cordarelle Patterson who's making $3m
Whizzinator
Footballguy
Don't think they will really be in on him, but that's not really how the cap works.
Acquiring team is only on hook for his base salary, $11 mil (the other $3 mil per year in his annual average is bonus proration, but Cards have to pay that and thus it stays on their cap). And then the acquiring team only has to cover the pro-rated portion which remains this year--which is roughly $6 mil. Pats have more than $5 mil in cap space after the Gilmore restructuring, so they could make it work with some simple additonal restructurings of current players.
Next year they'd need to find the full $11 mil, too
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Anarchy99
Footballguy
The Pats have roughly $7.5 million in cap space. Peterson has an $11 million salary this year. If they brought in Peterson for half the year, they would only need $5.5 million in cap room.
Bossman
Footballguy
Peterson still an uber stud CB?kyoun1e said:
If so, I'd see if ARZ would consider taking Josh Gordon straight up for him.
... and promptly cut Rowe as a "ahem" salary cap move.
I'd really love to see just 1 stud on that side of the ball.
Oh how I pine for the talent of Seymore or Mcginest or Bruschi or Law or R.Harrison ... etc.
Bossman
Footballguy
GB This week.
My initial impression is that Rogers will have his way with this defense. GB just put up 27 on the leagues best defense last week.
... but GB WR's pretty banged up. Allison is doubtful and Cobb is Q. Pats catch a big break if these 2 can't go.
So, assuming Rogers carves them up, looks like he'll be doing it with Davante Adams and rookie Marquez Valdes-Scantling.
Still need to hope NE's offense has a better showing than last week ... because one offensive TD isn't going to do it vs GB.
If Gronk is only at 75%, is going to slow down the NE offense going forward. Teams aren't having to double and triple team him like they have.
Likely going to need 35+ to get a win.
My initial impression is that Rogers will have his way with this defense. GB just put up 27 on the leagues best defense last week.
... but GB WR's pretty banged up. Allison is doubtful and Cobb is Q. Pats catch a big break if these 2 can't go.
So, assuming Rogers carves them up, looks like he'll be doing it with Davante Adams and rookie Marquez Valdes-Scantling.
Still need to hope NE's offense has a better showing than last week ... because one offensive TD isn't going to do it vs GB.
If Gronk is only at 75%, is going to slow down the NE offense going forward. Teams aren't having to double and triple team him like they have.
Likely going to need 35+ to get a win.
Bossman
Footballguy
anyone else care to comment on what we watched yesterday?
- Lack of talent on defense ... all 3 levels. This has to be the worst defense NE has fielded in the Brady era.
weak pass rush, mistakes in the secondary, and LB's that are too slow vs a mobile QB.
Sad part is, as bad as the defense was, they did enough to win the game ... if the offense played like it has recently.
- Lack of talent on O-line
too many O-linemen facing the QB at the end of each play. Several times Titans coming thru clean without a hand put on them.
Did Scarnechia retire again? This group seems to be regressing for whatever reason.
- Offensive play calling. Why no hurry up until mid 4th qtr? Why no classic NE dink and dunk ... at all?
Did TEN take away the middle of the field on every play somehow? Just a feeble game plan on that side of the ball and no effective adjustments at halftime.
The good news, Belichick has another 2 months to polish this turd before NE hosts a week 1 playoff game.
- Lack of talent on defense ... all 3 levels. This has to be the worst defense NE has fielded in the Brady era.
weak pass rush, mistakes in the secondary, and LB's that are too slow vs a mobile QB.
Sad part is, as bad as the defense was, they did enough to win the game ... if the offense played like it has recently.
- Lack of talent on O-line
too many O-linemen facing the QB at the end of each play. Several times Titans coming thru clean without a hand put on them.
Did Scarnechia retire again? This group seems to be regressing for whatever reason.
- Offensive play calling. Why no hurry up until mid 4th qtr? Why no classic NE dink and dunk ... at all?
Did TEN take away the middle of the field on every play somehow? Just a feeble game plan on that side of the ball and no effective adjustments at halftime.
The good news, Belichick has another 2 months to polish this turd before NE hosts a week 1 playoff game.