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Indefinite New England Patriots Thread (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter captain_amazing
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Casting Couch
Footballguy
[Per Schefter] New England Patriots signing former Jaguars’ WR Marqise Lee to a one-year contract.
http://twitter.com/AdamSchefter/status/1253337575839772674
http://twitter.com/AdamSchefter/status/1253337575839772674
Anarchy99
Footballguy
I heard them discussing this on the radio earlier this morning. Lee showed flashes 4 or 5 years ago, but he has been limited to 3 catches over the past 2 seasons with knee injuries. He missed time in his other seasons as well. Depending on what it cost them dollar wise, it could be a decent shot in the dark. It's not like they have any cap room to make a splash, so you have to shop at the discount receiver stores. Signing a going to be 29-year-old who hasn't really played the last two years and has had repeated serious knee injuries probably won't work out, but there is always a chance he is healthier now.
Bossman
Footballguy
I predict they trade the pick and move back into the 2nd round but if they did use the #23, would love to see them take rush DE/LB.
Has been a need for 2 years now. Lost a few bodies at LB in free agency this year.
But they took Sanyo Michele over Darius Leonard??? Still burns me. Oh, and we've got that 3rd rd RB from last year now too. smh.
O-line would be acceptable ... offense was the worst it has been in a very long time last year. They're still wanting to be a run heavy offense and they are very thin at the position. Yeah, they have 2nd string bodies but no quality. As we saw last year, one guy goes down and there's trouble. 2 go down and forget about it.
Here's what they don't need at 23 ... reach for a QB. I say wait and grab a QB to develop later or even better ... don't take one at all and develop Stidham
. ....don't draft another WR that doesn't fit, or another CB that they coach into a nobody.
... and lord almighty, if they draft another RB before round 5 I'm gonna puke. :X
Has been a need for 2 years now. Lost a few bodies at LB in free agency this year.
But they took Sanyo Michele over Darius Leonard??? Still burns me. Oh, and we've got that 3rd rd RB from last year now too. smh.
O-line would be acceptable ... offense was the worst it has been in a very long time last year. They're still wanting to be a run heavy offense and they are very thin at the position. Yeah, they have 2nd string bodies but no quality. As we saw last year, one guy goes down and there's trouble. 2 go down and forget about it.
Here's what they don't need at 23 ... reach for a QB. I say wait and grab a QB to develop later or even better ... don't take one at all and develop Stidham
. ....don't draft another WR that doesn't fit, or another CB that they coach into a nobody.
... and lord almighty, if they draft another RB before round 5 I'm gonna puke. :X
Gandalf
Footballguy
Boston
Footballguy
Whether the Pats end up with Hurts will be the final hurdle for the Stidham era to be official...unless they really like someone like Eason or Fromm and use a #2 on them I think once we know what happens with Hurts we'll have official clarity on whether they view Stidham as their QB of the future...I do hope they add another legit prospect as I'd like to have a plan B just in-case it does not work out...if they come out of this season with their QB situation still a question mark I will be real dissapointed.
As for the rest of the draft...gotta believe they will be making a ton of trades and moving up and down...gonna need one of those stock market tickers to keep up...if this team is going have a shot at being good in the future they need to hit it hard the next two days...they are springing leaks and they need to be filled with good, young, cheap talent so they are in a position to use that cap space effectively next year.
As for the rest of the draft...gotta believe they will be making a ton of trades and moving up and down...gonna need one of those stock market tickers to keep up...if this team is going have a shot at being good in the future they need to hit it hard the next two days...they are springing leaks and they need to be filled with good, young, cheap talent so they are in a position to use that cap space effectively next year.
Boston
Footballguy
I am just assuming that with their cap situation they aren't gonna do that but if they deal Thuney that could be on the table again...as far as free agents go there is nothing real appealing out there (at least to me) unless they really like Stidham but feel like he is a year away from being ready and a guy like Dalton would be a nice bridge...I definitely don't see any of the free agents being a long-term answer unless BB can get Winston a brain transplant.
Anarchy99
Footballguy
The only way they can afford an established QB would be if they traded Thuney (or cut other significant players with decent salaries). While I suppose a Thuney trade could still happen, the greater chance of that happening was before the draft. I am not sure if there will be a mid-draft trade for Thuney, but after today his value will be greater than the draft picks remaining (meaning he would be worth more than a 4th round pick). It wouldn't make much sense to trade him now for a higher draft pick next year (although Bill being Bill, I suppose he would consider it).
Their dead money, Gilmore, Thuney, Hightower, Edelman, Cannon ,and Mason add up to $100 million. This year's league cap allocation per team is $198 million (NE was able to roll over almost $6 million on top of that). So they used basically half their allocated cap space (and dead weight) to only roster 6 players.
Until they clear up the cap space, there is no way to add Newton, Winston, or Dalton (or anyone of substance at any position). Maybe BB has some monster trade planned that moves NE players for draft capital to shed payroll to be able to add a veteran QB.
Bossman
Footballguy
as far as the QB situation ...
Patriots have had Brady at somewhat of a hometown discount for decades ...
but I think the other formula for success is to have a quality QB on a rookie contract.
The latest being Mahomes in KC but also see history of other teams that went far with QB's still on rookie deals ...allowing them to "load up" on defense .. Goff LAR, Wilson SEA,
I think the Pats are going this route, content to run with Stidham and spend their $ on defense.
Patriots have had Brady at somewhat of a hometown discount for decades ...
but I think the other formula for success is to have a quality QB on a rookie contract.
The latest being Mahomes in KC but also see history of other teams that went far with QB's still on rookie deals ...allowing them to "load up" on defense .. Goff LAR, Wilson SEA,
I think the Pats are going this route, content to run with Stidham and spend their $ on defense.
Bossman
Footballguy
I'd rather they trade Edleman. Love him but he's old. Frees up cap space. TB would be a good fit. I could see Cameron Brate coming to NE in part of that deal.
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Boston
Footballguy
Anarchy99
Footballguy
He's a perfect fit for NE, too. Not quite sure why the Pats should just be sending everyone to Tampa to help Tom out. NE still has a team trying to win games and make a splash in 2021.
Boston
Footballguy
Not sure what your point is...I said I was looking at this from a Tampa angle not a Patriot angle and said I did not want to lose him.
Bossman
Footballguy
I agree that trading White would make no sense.
but I don't think BB is afraid of building Florida's "team Geritol" (TB), to the point he wouldn't send them a 34 year old WR.
BB strategy has always been "better to trade them a year too early than a year too late".
Edleman has shown signs of breaking down. Wouldn't shock me to see him shipped off. Would break my heart but would be good for business imo.
Really regretting NE sending a 2nd for Sanu today. Just seemed like desperation at the time and a very "un-Patriot" like move.
Anarchy99
Footballguy
Looking at the three salary cap reporting sites . . .
Spotrac shows NE with $2.1 million in cap space prior to signing Lee . . . but still needing $10.3 million in cap space to sign their pool of drafted players (if they use them all).
Over The Cap shows NE with $1.2 million in cap space prior to signing Lee . . . but still needing to sign their drafted players.
The NFLPA site shows NE with $1 million in cap space prior to signing Lee . . . but still needing to sign their drafted players.
As of today, NE has about $1 million in cap space (probably less after signing Marqise Lee). What veteran QB in their right mind would risk life and limb for a $1 million? For someone like Dalton, the league minimum for his length of service would be higher then NE could pay him. (And again, adding the caveat that that is without any other roster moves to make room for him.) Plus, they need to be able to sign all their draft picks.
It will be interesting following all this to see how they navigate through the salary cap waters. One would guess they may try to trade picks from this year for more picks next year when they have more ability to sign draft picks. Even packaging multiple picks to try to move up this year would cost them money . . . the #2 pick they came with is getting allocated at a projected $1.5 million cap hit for this year. Trading two 3rd round picks for a 2nd adds up to a similar salary total for this year.
NE's best bet is to try to package something like a 3rd and a 6th this year to a team that likes someone still on the board in the 3rd for their 2nd round pick next year. No matter what, NE is going to have to do something to get under the cap.
Bossman
Footballguy
Jeebus... no wonder they couldn't sign Brady ... or Thuney.
Are you sure there is no cap relief after Brady signed with TB? ... Otherwise, This has to be the worst cap management in the league.
If this is accurate, BB should be embarrassed.
Anarchy99
Footballguy
If the reporting on Sanu was accurate, he was on the short list of players that Brady signed off on to be brought in. At the time, NE was 8-0 and very much in the mix for going on another SB run. Sanu had 10-81-1 in his first game with the Pats against the Ravens. He suffered a high ankle sprain on a punt return the next week, couldn't play the following week, and was severely limited the rest of the way. He had surgery in March to repair the ankle.
Since he got hurt and was not effective from that point forward, the trade looks bad. Who knows how the trade would have looked if he had stayed healthy. It was probably a slight overpay, but they got him for a year and a half on a somewhat reasonable contract ($6.5 million for this year). NE would gladly take any of those three outcomes from the Ravens games in any game this year . . . 10 catches . . . 81 yards . . . or a TD reception. Sanu isn't going to set the world on fire, and an injured Sanu wasn't worth a 2nd round pick. But he should be a better third receiver than Dorsett was (I realize that isn't exactly a high bar to break).
Edelman is probably worth more to NE than what he would get back in a trade. He's too old, too frail, and too expensive to really get much back for him. Probably a conditional 6th round pick that could turn into a 5th rounder if he played in a set number of games. Not a lot of expected return for 34-year-old receivers that have been beaten up.
Anarchy99
Footballguy
The issue for Brady was that when NE gave him a raise last year, they extended his contract to include the 2020 season with a provision that the contract voided prior to the start of the 2020 season. That gave them some salary cap relief for 2019 by extending the cap hit across two season instead of one. They had until 3/17 this year to work out a new deal to be able to keep kicking the salary cap hit to future seasons. They didn't get a new contract done (they didn't even try to), thus they had to take an immediate $13.5 million dead cap hit for his unaccounted for payouts. They also are eating money still from the Antonio Brown debacle (to the tune of $4.5 million against the cap this year). With all their other moves, they have a total of $24 million in dead cap money this year.
Jeebus... no wonder they couldn't sign Brady ... or Thuney.
Are you sure there is no cap relief after Brady signed with TB? ... Otherwise, This has to be the worst cap management in the league.
If this is accurate, BB should be embarrassed.
GroveDiesel
Footballguy
The Patriots are going to be one of the most interesting teams in the league this year (assuming there is a this year). I don’t think not having Brady can be understated, but it’s also BB’s show and the Patriots.
I totally agree with, it was either Beane or McDermott in Buffalo, who said that the AFC East still runs through New England. Whether they have Brady or not, they are still the team to beat until someone proves otherwise. They may have their backs up against the wall, but since when has that ever really affected them? And people may forget that Brady didn’t really play all that great in several games last year and still won most of them. He had an AWFUL game against the Bills but the defense won the game for them. Same against the Cowboys and Bengals. So they’re a team that can very well win even without great QB play.
I totally agree with, it was either Beane or McDermott in Buffalo, who said that the AFC East still runs through New England. Whether they have Brady or not, they are still the team to beat until someone proves otherwise. They may have their backs up against the wall, but since when has that ever really affected them? And people may forget that Brady didn’t really play all that great in several games last year and still won most of them. He had an AWFUL game against the Bills but the defense won the game for them. Same against the Cowboys and Bengals. So they’re a team that can very well win even without great QB play.
GroveDiesel
Footballguy
Bossman
Footballguy
Dugger feels like a reach but I'm thankful they got a player that might be able to cover TE's and RB's now.
Maybe Uche could be this guy as well. Either way, slow LB's and Safeties were there weakness on D imo so this is a welcome change from their typical lumbering run stuffing jumbo LB's.
Anfernee Jennings seems the Van Noy replacement.
Back to back TE's. And what's odd is they traded UP to get them. So they were very careful to land BOTH of these guys. Tells me that they must think highly of them both.
Of the two TE's taken, safe to assume Asiasi is more the traditional pass catching TE ... and Keene more the Swiss army knife?
People jumping to the "Gronk & Hernandez" comparison. I don't see either one of these guys able to give what Gronk or Hernandez gave them.
Just your avg Cameron Brate / Jack Doyle type players ... which can still be productive ... just not superstars.
.... so far I'm not surprised they haven't taken a QB .... they'll grab some kid late that is barely on the radar ... but I am surprised they haven't taken an O-line yet.
To me, that was a major issue last season affecting both the run and passing game. Unless they're thinking everyone comes back healthy at the position?
No round 4 picks and only one round 5 pick. Going to be slim picking by the time they are able to make some hay in the 6th round.
Maybe Uche could be this guy as well. Either way, slow LB's and Safeties were there weakness on D imo so this is a welcome change from their typical lumbering run stuffing jumbo LB's.
Anfernee Jennings seems the Van Noy replacement.
Back to back TE's. And what's odd is they traded UP to get them. So they were very careful to land BOTH of these guys. Tells me that they must think highly of them both.
Of the two TE's taken, safe to assume Asiasi is more the traditional pass catching TE ... and Keene more the Swiss army knife?
People jumping to the "Gronk & Hernandez" comparison. I don't see either one of these guys able to give what Gronk or Hernandez gave them.
Just your avg Cameron Brate / Jack Doyle type players ... which can still be productive ... just not superstars.
.... so far I'm not surprised they haven't taken a QB .... they'll grab some kid late that is barely on the radar ... but I am surprised they haven't taken an O-line yet.
To me, that was a major issue last season affecting both the run and passing game. Unless they're thinking everyone comes back healthy at the position?
No round 4 picks and only one round 5 pick. Going to be slim picking by the time they are able to make some hay in the 6th round.
Anarchy99
Footballguy
For those concerned about the OL, there is nothing wrong with Wynn-Thuney-Andrews-Mason-Cannon and the two guys they drafted last year with funky names. No team’s OL will be able to sustain mass injuries at the same time. Compared to other positions, OL was a much lower priority.
BB’s strategy looks pretty straightforward. Take away the pass with a top secondary, get some disruptive, younger blood to get timely pressure on QB’s, beef up special teams, and don’t turn the ball over on offense. The early winning teams weren’t all that impressive offensively.
BB’s strategy looks pretty straightforward. Take away the pass with a top secondary, get some disruptive, younger blood to get timely pressure on QB’s, beef up special teams, and don’t turn the ball over on offense. The early winning teams weren’t all that impressive offensively.
wikkidpissah
Footballguy
the top 3 were all guys ideally suited as disruptors and that's the philosophy BB has gone to (making an awful lot of FA $$ for his defensive plug&plays) - 2-3 tight cover assignments and the rest shooting gaps and blowing things up - that made the NE defense so deadly in the 1st half of '19.
what i dont get is the TEs. i've come to embrace BB's post-Gronk sentiment that, if a TE's not in-line he's just a fat, slow receiver, just as i believed along when he took Gronk & AHern a decade ago to show the game they werent using TEs right. there was one TE i was really high on this draft - smart (HS QB), leveraging (baller), big enough to be in-line and willing, if not all that able yet, to do so. twice i watch BB trade up in the 3rd to take a TE and neither of em are my guy. Instead, one cant block, one cant catch. And, as soon as he's done, the Saints trade the rest of their draft to pick my guy, Trautman. Coach has earned his arrogance, but he's so frikkin arrogant....
Anarchy99
Footballguy
Oddly enough, in the 10 year gap between SB victories (also known as Brady’s prime), the Pats scored 500+ points four times . . . And did not win a SB. Their teams that allowed the least amount of points fared much better. Four of their 6 teams that allowed the fewest points won SB’s. Last year and 2006 were the teams that didn’t win.
Bossman
Footballguy
When Trautman was still on the board at 87, I thought that would be the pick. How fitting to bring in the Gronk "wanna be" at pick #87.
They took LB Jennings there, the Belichick/ Saban connection in full swing.
When they traded back in at pick 91 I was thinking, ok, HERE is the Trautman pick. Nope. Who is this TE now?
When they traded in again at the end of the round and took another TE not named Trautman I thought to myself ..
this Trautman kid must be dumb as a stump for the Pats to pass on him 3 times and take two other guys with less skill at that position.
Belicheck positioning to pick Trevor Lawrence in the 2021 draft. They have a great shot at it. I can only see the Bears, Redskins and maybe CAR getting in the mix. INDY, & Jax will knock each other out of the running and it's not like HOU is any good either. They traded away their offense.
Anarchy99
Footballguy
LOL. A coach for 45 years who has coached in 12 Bowls suddenly has lost his mind and they are in contention for the worst record in the league.
NE_REVIVAL
Footballguy
I find it odd that some think Bradys prime ended in 2013, when he then went on to have maybe the best 5 yr period any qb has ever had.
I think reg season points against (if that is what u mean) vs post season pts against can be pretty misleading. For instance in 2003 NE had #1 reg season pts def and yet gave up 29 to carolina in sb 38.
More recently in 2017 NE was #5 pts against and yet they were horrific in the sb giving up 41 to the eagles in sb 52. So yes, teams that give up less points in the playoffs tend to win.
Since you brought it up, it's worth pointing out how many (much like now) were claiming Brady was all washed up back in 2013; bring on Jimmy G! Right before Brady went on a 5yr run as good or better than any in history. Just sayin.........
https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/13776027/the-day-buried-patriots-qb-tom-brady-nfl
Boston
Footballguy
You knew it was coming...no pressure on this kid, he's only following-up two of the best kickers in NFL history.
Anarchy99
Footballguy
The Patriots scored 13 points in their most recent SB win. They lost SB’s scoring 14 and 17 points. Sure, Nick Foles had the game of his life and they lost to the Eagles. Overall, the defense has been pretty stout in the postseason.I find it odd that some think Bradys prime ended in 2013, when he then went on to have maybe the best 5 yr period any qb has ever had.
I think reg season points against (if that is what u mean) vs post season pts against can be pretty misleading. For instance in 2003 NE had #1 reg season pts def and yet gave up 29 to carolina in sb 38.
More recently in 2017 NE was #5 pts against and yet they were horrific in the sb giving up 41 to the eagles in sb 52. So yes, teams that give up less points in the playoffs tend to win.
Since you brought it up, it's worth pointing out how many (much like now) were claiming Brady was all washed up back in 2013; bring on Jimmy G! Right before Brady went on a 5yr run as good or better than any in history. Just sayin.........
https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/13776027/the-day-buried-patriots-qb-tom-brady-nfl
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Boston
Footballguy
My guess:
*Two TEs-biggest black hole on the team
*K-hopefully he is the next Gostkowski and is here the next 12 years along with Bailey...BB is a freak for special teams
*Three defensive picks-there D last year was very good but it is in real danger of taking a big step backwards...they lost Van Noys, Collins, Roberts, Shelton and Harmon...all legit contributors last year...the McCourtys are not getting younger and Hightower is not very durable...they needed an infusion of young athleticism and hopefully these three contribute that.