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Indefinite New England Patriots Thread (9 Viewers)
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SeniorVBDStudent
Footballguy
I recommend two homework assignments, to be completed when you're not drinking.
1. write an essay on the hazards of alcohol consumption.
2. write an essay on the origins of the racist label applied to Boston and the surrounding area, including the bus riots of the 70s within the scope of the essay. in the essay, analyze how socio-economics influences the behavior of people, citing the deep south and Boston as cultural examples.
SeniorVBDStudent
Footballguy
To be fair, I was born and raised in Maine and have lived in the south since 1990 so there is some validity to your point here
Where in Maine?To be fair, I was born and raised in Maine and have lived in the south since 1990 so there is some validity to your point here
SeniorVBDStudent
Footballguy
Anarchy99
Footballguy
We're pretty much at the point where even the naysayers are even suggesting Cam Newton will be the starting QB to start the season. The only holdout is Tom Curran, who still thinks there's a chance that over the next 2 weeks BB will elevate Jones to top billing. Ben Volin has gone so far to say that there never was a QB competition and no matter what it was going to be Newton (which is very similar to what I have been suggesting).
Cam started every practice he was available with the starters and started all 3 preseason games (with very limited use in the games). IIRC, he did not practice with the second unit other than in drills. BB's calling card is starters don't play much in the preseason games. Jones got used as a QB2 all training camp and in the preseason games.
Just to reiterate, I would much rather have Jones in there as I don't think Cam gives them the best chance to win, Jones is clearly the future, so why not give him the keys and get some experience.
The talking heads have mostly moved the on and now have been discussing when Jones actually will start. Week 7 at home against the Jets was deemed a safe landing spot. When do folks feel Mac might take over by Cam? (I still think BB sticks with Cam until he gets hurt or until the team starts losing . . . but I see the first of those being the more likely of the two).
Cam started every practice he was available with the starters and started all 3 preseason games (with very limited use in the games). IIRC, he did not practice with the second unit other than in drills. BB's calling card is starters don't play much in the preseason games. Jones got used as a QB2 all training camp and in the preseason games.
Just to reiterate, I would much rather have Jones in there as I don't think Cam gives them the best chance to win, Jones is clearly the future, so why not give him the keys and get some experience.
The talking heads have mostly moved the on and now have been discussing when Jones actually will start. Week 7 at home against the Jets was deemed a safe landing spot. When do folks feel Mac might take over by Cam? (I still think BB sticks with Cam until he gets hurt or until the team starts losing . . . but I see the first of those being the more likely of the two).
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Boston
Footballguy
First of all Ben Volin is a buffoon…he is like listening to a middle schooler, I have zero respect for his opinion…I would be surprised if Newton does not start, all signs have pointed to that…as for the change it all depends on what Cam shows up…if it is Cam of last year it will be very quickly…if the 1,000 excuses the Cam supporters are making are valid and he plays like a real NFL Qb it will TBD…a lot will depend on the D…if it is as good as it potentially can be that will extend Cam’s shelf life as it will cover for his flaws but if it is not hitting on all cylinders and Cam has to throw a lot and play from behind it will expose him and if they get upset in a game or two this decision could cost them a playoff spot…as a fan if Cam plays it really takes away a lot of my enjoyment for watching them and I know I am definitely not alone with this feeling.
SeniorVBDStudent
Footballguy
I would guess Cam needs to start 1-2 or 1-3 to get yanked in the early part of the season...or if his play in the first 3-4 games in horrific and the Pats win despite that.
Weeks 5-9 are the easiest part of the schedule, and then the schedule gets real hard, real fast.
So, if I were wanting Jones in asap, I would actually be hoping for a horrible start to the season to get a change made after week 3 or week 4, because if Cam survives that, you'd pretty much be stuck with him until the Pats are out of the playoff picture.
Weeks 5-9 are the easiest part of the schedule, and then the schedule gets real hard, real fast.
So, if I were wanting Jones in asap, I would actually be hoping for a horrible start to the season to get a change made after week 3 or week 4, because if Cam survives that, you'd pretty much be stuck with him until the Pats are out of the playoff picture.
johnnycakes
Footballguy
All I know is Mac Jones versus Brady in Week 4 would be a lot more fun to watch than Cam versus Brady.
Boston
Footballguy
The big winner if Cam plays is sports radio…also, if Cam plays a substantial part of the season and the Pats don’t make the playoffs it is gonna get as ugly around here since Pete Carroll was the Coach…if Cam plays over Jones I will not accept anything less than the playoffs…if you are going to have another bridge year you go with the young kid and not a veteran on a one year deal who showed nothing last year.
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Anarchy99
Footballguy
Clearly Bill thinks Cam has improved and will perform much better than last year or he wouldn't be prepared to start Newton. BB has tended to downplay the QB position, whether it be by suggesting it's one of 53 roster spotsr, placing more emphasis on defense and special teams, or not investing a ton of money or draft picks at the position. So unless people are going to say after 45 years and 12 Super Bowl appearances that he suddenly is a bumbling Inspector Clouseau of a head coach, I'm guessing he thinks Cam is worthy of being a starting QB (and right now a better option than Jones). As far as what the fans or media have to say about it, yeah, he could care less.
As mentioned earlier, a case could be made that the 2021 roster is better overall and more complete than the 2018 roster that won the SB. And a case could also be made that the 2021 NE roster is similar to the 2015 CAR roster that went to the SB. I AM NOT suggesting 2021 Cam is in the same universe as 2015 Cam, but the Panthers had: Greg Olsen 1104/7, Jonathan Stewart 1088/7, Ted Ginn 799/10, Jerricho Cotchery 501/3, Corey Brown 485/4, Devin Funchess 473/5, Mike Tolbert 410/4. Olson was a stud, but those other guys sort of seem pretty ordinary to me.
That team overall didn't have a Top 10 offense (in yardage) . . . they just were very good at getting into the end zone. They also allowed 19.3 ppg . . . a number the Patriots defense could beat in terms of points allowed this year. No, the Patriots are not going to average 31 ppg like the Panthers did, but Carolina won a ton of games that year.
Maybe Bill has lost it and has no idea what he is doing anymore, but I can envision him looking at the recent NE teams and that CAR team and thinking he can be competitive rolling with Cam. (That's me imagining what BB is thinking, not me thinking that.)
As mentioned earlier, a case could be made that the 2021 roster is better overall and more complete than the 2018 roster that won the SB. And a case could also be made that the 2021 NE roster is similar to the 2015 CAR roster that went to the SB. I AM NOT suggesting 2021 Cam is in the same universe as 2015 Cam, but the Panthers had: Greg Olsen 1104/7, Jonathan Stewart 1088/7, Ted Ginn 799/10, Jerricho Cotchery 501/3, Corey Brown 485/4, Devin Funchess 473/5, Mike Tolbert 410/4. Olson was a stud, but those other guys sort of seem pretty ordinary to me.
That team overall didn't have a Top 10 offense (in yardage) . . . they just were very good at getting into the end zone. They also allowed 19.3 ppg . . . a number the Patriots defense could beat in terms of points allowed this year. No, the Patriots are not going to average 31 ppg like the Panthers did, but Carolina won a ton of games that year.
Maybe Bill has lost it and has no idea what he is doing anymore, but I can envision him looking at the recent NE teams and that CAR team and thinking he can be competitive rolling with Cam. (That's me imagining what BB is thinking, not me thinking that.)
@Anarchy99 since you are the NE guy and I can't find much on the IDP side about Barmore what is his situation at this point heading into the season? Various depth charts (the old rotoworld) have him buried. Is he going to have a significant role this year?
Anarchy99
Footballguy
He didn’t play much in the preseason games which is probably a good thing. That usually means BB considers a player an important piece. He had a foot injury 3-4 weeks ago but appears to be back.
Word is he’s looked good in camp and was very disruptive last night. I would guess he will be a rotational / situational piece and will likely earn more playing time as the season progresses. That being said, he may not have great fantasy numbers if he gets double teamed.
SeniorVBDStudent
Footballguy
While we're doing Q&A with Anarchy, assuming Gilmore comes back, does Jackson go to the bench? He was bloody awful.
SeniorVBDStudent
Footballguy
I do think the hook will come early if it needs to, and I don't think Bill thinks of this as year 2 of a rebuild. I think he wants it to be the revenge tour, and he has circled the Tampa and two Buffalo games on his mental calendar.
It's kind of amusing to me when you say "I will not accept anything less than..." and "it is gonna get as ugly around here since Pete Carroll was coach". If I'm Bill, and this comes to pass, at his age and what he's done for this organization, I laugh all the way to my 8 rings yacht on my way out never to be heard from again.
Anarchy99
Footballguy
At this point I am starting to think that they have some agreement with SG where he plays out his contract but he plays fewer games. Whether that means leaving him on PUP or putting him on IR with the ability to return. They can leave him on PUP and he would miss 6 games with the option to have him miss 2 more. If they want him on IR instead, they would have to have him on their initial 53 man roster and then put him on IR. They changed the return from IR rules last year, so he would miss a minimum of 3 games if they went that route. I really don't see them just giving him more money for this year. And giving him a one year extension and a lot more money would just make next year's cap number a big number.
Which Jackson do you mean? J.C. Jackson is locked in as a starter. Michael Jackson will likely be cut. They apparently had an interest in the kid from Ohio State at the draft (Shaun Wade), so he may be their developmental guy that comes out of nowhere to play meaningful snaps.
Wise Old Owl
Footballguy
My new theory is that Bill is out to prove that he was responsible for all the winning, not Brady. How is he going to do that? Win a SB with terrible quarterback play to prove that not only does he not need Brady, he doesn't really even need the whole position. It's the only thing that makes sense at this point.
Anarchy99
Footballguy
I have not. I can do that after they announce the initial 53 man roster tomorrow. Doing the mental projections, my initial reaction is that either Harris or Stevenson is likely due for an increase in production, but I have to try to figure out what the QB situation is likely to be because that will make a difference.
SeniorVBDStudent
Footballguy
SeniorVBDStudent
Footballguy
Taylor is bigger than I thought he was. I'm curious if you see him eating into White's share at all.
Birdie048
Footballguy
23 yo JJ Taylor is 5'6" 185 lb? Big? Compared to what ?? Not being a
but curious...& 29 yo James White is 5'10" & 205 lb
SeniorVBDStudent
Footballguy
dunno...maybe its cuz he carries that weight on a shorter frame than white.23 yo JJ Taylor is 5'6" 185 lb? Big? Compared to what ?? Not being a
& 29 yo James White is 5'10" & 205 lb
Dizzy
Footballguy
Just a hunch... but I get the feeling that Bill Belichick is not the kind of coach that listens a whole lot to outside voices.
Boston
Footballguy
He has also made big decisions that others would say were stupid. Some worked out well, others not so much. Of course we are all behind what he says. However, I think any reasonable QB would win early in this schedule. So, you want see Cam struggle then go to Mac when he has upfield battle. Or go rookie and then if he struggles, go back to Cam. It seems obvious we won’t win Super Bowl with Cam. Yet we don’t know how great Mac can be.
elguapo07
Footballguy
What did BB see in Cam last year that suggested Cam deserved to start the entire season? BB is now doubling down that Cam is still a starting caliber QB. What does he see in Cam that the rest of the league has seemingly overlooked? If the Pats have a fast start are we gonna see another full year of Cam?
Just don't understand why BB is hitching his wagon to a guy that no other team who plans on winning this year views nothing more than a backup? Mac may or may not be the future but I think BB needs to find out sooner rather than later as Cam isn't the future.
He doesn’t move easy. He entered with a starter in mind. He thinks conventional wisdom is he isn’t ready.