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Indefinite New England Patriots Thread (1 Viewer)

I was watching some Polk highlights last night and he does remind me of Puka. One thing I also noticed was Penix doesn't seem to have the greatest accuracy, and Polk managed to catch a lot of badly thrown balls. I think if he and Maye continue to develop and gel, that could be a great combo.
 
I was curious as to where 1,000-yard receivers come from (sort of a birds and the bees of football). Just pulled this out quickly without a lot of thought, so obviously not an in-depth analysis. Over the past 5 seasons . . .

- There were 112 total 1,000-yard receiving seasons by WRs.
- There were 53 different players that had at least one 1,000-yard season.
- Of those 53 players, 19 were 1st round picks, 15 were 2nd, 10 were 3rd, 1 was a 4th, 5 were 5th, 1 was a 7th, and 2 were by UDFAs.
- Of those 112 total seasons, 47 were by 1st round picks, 26 by 2nd, 22 by 3rd, 2 by 4th, 12 by 5th, 1 by 7th, and 2 by UDFAs.
- Approximately two-thirds of those seasons came from 1st or 2nd round picks.

I am sure there is a lot more to sift through, but at a certain point where a guy was drafted doesn't really matter and it's his production that counts. Would also have to see how some of these guys matched up with QBs. I doubt that will add any perspective to whether QBs make the WRs or vice versa, though.
Thanks for sharing this. Reinforces that draft capital still matters, though it's interesting to see 5th rounders hit more than 4th rounders. Hoping Javon Baker can buck that trend.
 
I hope we really don’t have to evaluate Maye at all this season. I don’t want to see him play. If they want to get him some experience in the last game or two, fine but I hope they dont put him in games where they are relying on him. I’d like to see another offseason to build the line and get that #1 WR before he’s thrown into real game action. He’s super young and I’d love to see them work on his game off the field for a year.
Hard disagree. Sitting and observing as opposed to playing and learning doesn't seem to have any noticeable impact on rookies IMO. I agree, maybe pump the brakes on tossing him out there for a couple weeks but he needs to play this year.

I think you play him once you think he is ready, and you are not throwing him to the wolves (i.e. in a spot where you could hurt his development)...that could be week 1 or week 14...we can speculate all we want but we won't know when until he starts playing with the big boys in camp/practice...last year pretty much everyone thought ARich was a project that was going to need a good amount of seasoning but he showed up to camp, won the job and looked good...I don't think many people saw that coming...no two situations are the same and it is up to Mayo/Van Pelt and company not to screw this up.
 
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Ya'll ain't gotta worry about this young man being phased being on an undermanned team (we don't know that about any of the other 1st round QB's). Turned down Alabama twice to go play for his home state.
I don't know where this kid will go, but he's a competitor that you're going to love.

2022 he comes in. Turns 20 right as the season starts. He's following a legend. I know that sounds ridiculous talking to fans where the GOAT played. But for UNC, Sammy is a legend (and now that he's out of the Washington stink, we might see it translate better to the NFL).

But anyway, he's 20 following a legend. Undermanned outside of Josh Downs (and Antoine Greene was solid). Drake comes in like gangbusters. He put up the numbers, sure, as a kid.

But it's the set of balls on this kid. No he doesn't have the alpha dog personality. He doesn't talk like an alpha, just acts like one. Letting it rip all over the field to Downs and Greene. 3rd and 8 and he's gotta run for it. Done. Yeah, he's gonna do some stupid **** when it comes to running. Totally got the Josh Allen part to him.

Downs and Greene gone after his 1st year. I still can't believe he's being ripped and compared to people 4 years older that had 2-3 WR's drafted on the first 2 days, but I digress.

Tez Walker coming to play in '23 with Drake but NCAA effs Tez for reasons we'll never know. It wasn't a great year.

His disaster year on a a completely undermanned team when he was still the youngest QB in the conference was 3600-24-9, plus 9 rushing TD's.

I've had a few cold pops. I love this kid. Everybody else in this class went where there were multiple first round picks and day 2-3 picks. This kid chose a tough situation because he's loyal to his family and home state.

And he's a damn baller that's going to lay it all on the line.

Sorry for the drunken rant, but congrats Pats. You get to go on a wonderful ride with this great kid.
 
Ya'll ain't gotta worry about this young man being phased being on an undermanned team (we don't know that about any of the other 1st round QB's). Turned down Alabama twice to go play for his home state.
I don't know where this kid will go, but he's a competitor that you're going to love.

2022 he comes in. Turns 20 right as the season starts. He's following a legend. I know that sounds ridiculous talking to fans where the GOAT played. But for UNC, Sammy is a legend (and now that he's out of the Washington stink, we might see it translate better to the NFL).

But anyway, he's 20 following a legend. Undermanned outside of Josh Downs (and Antoine Greene was solid). Drake comes in like gangbusters. He put up the numbers, sure, as a kid.

But it's the set of balls on this kid. No he doesn't have the alpha dog personality. He doesn't talk like an alpha, just acts like one. Letting it rip all over the field to Downs and Greene. 3rd and 8 and he's gotta run for it. Done. Yeah, he's gonna do some stupid **** when it comes to running. Totally got the Josh Allen part to him.

Downs and Greene gone after his 1st year. I still can't believe he's being ripped and compared to people 4 years older that had 2-3 WR's drafted on the first 2 days, but I digress.

Tez Walker coming to play in '23 with Drake but NCAA effs Tez for reasons we'll never know. It wasn't a great year.

His disaster year on a a completely undermanned team when he was still the youngest QB in the conference was 3600-24-9, plus 9 rushing TD's.

I've had a few cold pops. I love this kid. Everybody else in this class went where there were multiple first round picks and day 2-3 picks. This kid chose a tough situation because he's loyal to his family and home state.

And he's a damn baller that's going to lay it all on the line.

Sorry for the drunken rant, but congrats Pats. You get to go on a wonderful ride with this great kid.

Love it!

Must say, based on the interviews I've seen, I like his personality. Has some good fire. Good fit for NE.

On the flip side, I cringed every time I heard C. Williams speak during the draft. Weird vibe comes from that dude.
 
I was curious as to where 1,000-yard receivers come from (sort of a birds and the bees of football). Just pulled this out quickly without a lot of thought, so obviously not an in-depth analysis. Over the past 5 seasons . . .

- There were 112 total 1,000-yard receiving seasons by WRs.
- There were 53 different players that had at least one 1,000-yard season.
- Of those 53 players, 19 were 1st round picks, 15 were 2nd, 10 were 3rd, 1 was a 4th, 5 were 5th, 1 was a 7th, and 2 were by UDFAs.
- Of those 112 total seasons, 47 were by 1st round picks, 26 by 2nd, 22 by 3rd, 2 by 4th, 12 by 5th, 1 by 7th, and 2 by UDFAs.
- Approximately two-thirds of those seasons came from 1st or 2nd round picks.

I am sure there is a lot more to sift through, but at a certain point where a guy was drafted doesn't really matter and it's his production that counts. Would also have to see how some of these guys matched up with QBs. I doubt that will add any perspective to whether QBs make the WRs or vice versa, though.
Breakdown of the 112 seasons based on which order each player was taken in his draft class (ie, 4th WR taken regardless of draft spot).

01 - 12
02 - 18
03 - 11
04 - 6
05 - 6
06 - 3
07 - 5
08 - 6
09 - 8
10 - 5
11 - 7
12 - 6
13 - 0
14 - 1
15 - 1
16+ 17

Top 5 selection: 53 (47.3%)
Top 10 selection: 80 (71.4%)
Not Top 10 Selection: 32 (28.6%)

To be clear, this is just a breakdown, and every player moving forward does not have to apply to any prior distribution patterns . . .

Current Patriots Receivers and Spot Selected:

Kendrick Bourne - 33
DeMario Douglas - 27
Ja'Lynn Polk - 10
K.J. Osborn - 27
JuJu Smith-Schuster - 6
Javon Baker - 18
Tyquan Thornton - 10
Jalen Reagor - 4
Kayshon Boutte - 22
T.J. Luther - 33
Kawaan Baker - 33

Interestingly enough, the 3 guys that were picked the earliest who have already played have realistically little chance to become big contributors (Reagor, JJSS, and Thornton).
 

Hopefully someone steps up and takes advantage of this opportunity...the Cole Strange era has been an interesting one...many thought it was a stretch when they took him with a #1 and that appears to be the case.

That article points out a couple of decent FAs that are still hanging out in the breeze.

Don't understand what the hell they are waiting for.
 
Not a lot of info but posting it because White is a player I think has a ton of upside, so it is good to hear he is heading in the right direction.


On the flipside, not hearing good things about Mapu...sounds like he is kind of position-less.
 
With the Rhamondre extension, the Pats have now committed $318 million to bringing back 8 players from last year's squad that won 4 games (who knows how much of that they will actually have to pay out). Other than Barmore, I'm not sure the guys they extended were true difference makers.

IMO, not much has changed in the past couple of months. Draft Maye and hope he develops into something and pray that the rest of the guys they drafted pan out. IMO, the OL is worse than last season, the WR group is raw and unproven, and the coaching staff will be learning under duress and by trial by fire. DraftKings has lowered NE's over/under win total to 3.5 wins. They have the lowest projected win total for most major sports books (even CAR surpassed them at 5.5 . . . some places have the Panthers at 7.5). I expect that we will hear more feel good stories in camp and talk of guys catching a lot of passes in shorts and shells, but once the bullets go live reality will set in.

As far as Stevenson goes, NE has seen their RB production drop from:

2021: 2641 YFS, 26 total TD, 4.5 ypc
2022: 2231 YFS, 11 total TD, 4.7 ypc
2023: 1984 YFS, 10 total TD, 3.7 ypc

They've been trending in the wrong direction. With the OL they have and a lot of inexperienced players on offense, Again, hard to really form an opinion when we really haven't seen the offense in action yet. But at least for now, I would expect more of the same this year.
 
it’s going to be a long season.. I always want them to win when I’m watching but I’m more or less convinced 2025 1.01 is their best long term option
 
it’s going to be a long season.. I always want them to win when I’m watching but I’m more or less convinced 2025 1.01 is their best long term option

I don't see a path to a good record...besides the roster they have a tough schedule...if Maye looks like a franchise QB (by far the most important thing), Mayo looks like he can coach and the 2024 draft looks promising I will be totally fine...would like to have seen a little more action in free agency but overall there wasn't much they could do this offseason that would have a big effect on 2024's record.
 
With the Rhamondre extension, the Pats have now committed $318 million to bringing back 8 players from last year's squad that won 4 games (who knows how much of that they will actually have to pay out). Other than Barmore, I'm not sure the guys they extended were true difference makers.

IMO, not much has changed in the past couple of months. Draft Maye and hope he develops into something and pray that the rest of the guys they drafted pan out. IMO, the OL is worse than last season, the WR group is raw and unproven, and the coaching staff will be learning under duress and by trial by fire. DraftKings has lowered NE's over/under win total to 3.5 wins. They have the lowest projected win total for most major sports books (even CAR surpassed them at 5.5 . . . some places have the Panthers at 7.5). I expect that we will hear more feel good stories in camp and talk of guys catching a lot of passes in shorts and shells, but once the bullets go live reality will set in.

As far as Stevenson goes, NE has seen their RB production drop from:

2021: 2641 YFS, 26 total TD, 4.5 ypc
2022: 2231 YFS, 11 total TD, 4.7 ypc
2023: 1984 YFS, 10 total TD, 3.7 ypc

They've been trending in the wrong direction. With the OL they have and a lot of inexperienced players on offense, Again, hard to really form an opinion when we really haven't seen the offense in action yet. But at least for now, I would expect more of the same this year.
I think it’s unfair to label those re-signed players as if they were the problem. Onwenu was their best remaining offensive lineman, they had to bring him back. Extending Stevenson was a smart move as that gives stability to an offense in desperate need of it. The one I was hesitant on was Dugger as I don’t think he’s anything more than league average and not a big time play maker. But there needed to be some familiar faces returning as the team transitions, it can’t all just be rookies.

This team is going to lose a lot this year, and the sooner we as fans make peace with that, the better for our psyche. The development of this team’s draft picks over the next few years is what’s going to shape the future of the franchise. Hopefully Maye hits, and that they continue to try building around him. And hopefully the OC carousel can stop for a while with Van Pelt.
 
With the Rhamondre extension, the Pats have now committed $318 million to bringing back 8 players from last year's squad that won 4 games (who knows how much of that they will actually have to pay out). Other than Barmore, I'm not sure the guys they extended were true difference makers.

IMO, not much has changed in the past couple of months. Draft Maye and hope he develops into something and pray that the rest of the guys they drafted pan out. IMO, the OL is worse than last season, the WR group is raw and unproven, and the coaching staff will be learning under duress and by trial by fire. DraftKings has lowered NE's over/under win total to 3.5 wins. They have the lowest projected win total for most major sports books (even CAR surpassed them at 5.5 . . . some places have the Panthers at 7.5). I expect that we will hear more feel good stories in camp and talk of guys catching a lot of passes in shorts and shells, but once the bullets go live reality will set in.

As far as Stevenson goes, NE has seen their RB production drop from:

2021: 2641 YFS, 26 total TD, 4.5 ypc
2022: 2231 YFS, 11 total TD, 4.7 ypc
2023: 1984 YFS, 10 total TD, 3.7 ypc

They've been trending in the wrong direction. With the OL they have and a lot of inexperienced players on offense, Again, hard to really form an opinion when we really haven't seen the offense in action yet. But at least for now, I would expect more of the same this year.
I think it’s unfair to label those re-signed players as if they were the problem. Onwenu was their best remaining offensive lineman, they had to bring him back. Extending Stevenson was a smart move as that gives stability to an offense in desperate need of it. The one I was hesitant on was Dugger as I don’t think he’s anything more than league average and not a big time play maker. But there needed to be some familiar faces returning as the team transitions, it can’t all just be rookies.

This team is going to lose a lot this year, and the sooner we as fans make peace with that, the better for our psyche. The development of this team’s draft picks over the next few years is what’s going to shape the future of the franchise. Hopefully Maye hits, and that they continue to try building around him. And hopefully the OC carousel can stop for a while with Van Pelt.

Agreed...the Pats already have enough holes with the resigned players...can you imagine how bad it would be without them...cap space is not an issue right now...nothing they did this offseason will have a negative effect on what they can do in the future.
 
I am beginning to come around on the lack of offseason moves. What's the point in signing a big free agent offensive piece if Maye or Mayo fizzle? A lot easier to attract talent next year if the team trajectory is looking up. Plus the AFC East is strong right now. No reason to try and keep up when you can lay low and rebuild.

Maybe I'm just coping lol
 
Bedard's latest article is about the OL-- and to the surprise of few (nobody??) he's "very concerned." Leaving *some* hope that some guys step up but the overall tone is fairly depressing.

Owenu maybe did zero to prep for the move to RT and so had to be moved back to G, also the other Guards stink.
Okorafor at LT - there's some optimism that it might work but given that he was cut by the Steelers, the optimism seems a bit premature.
Wallace at RT seems like that's where he's going to have to be to get him on the field.
Sow is meh, OK at LG.

Also noted-
OL coach Scott Peters is bit of an unknown but was passed up by the Browns, though he was their assistant OL coach the past 3 years.
Other front office staff around the league sees the personnel as not being a good fit for a zone running team due to overall size and lack of athleticism.
 
Bedard's latest article is about the OL-- and to the surprise of few (nobody??) he's "very concerned." Leaving *some* hope that some guys step up but the overall tone is fairly depressing.

Owenu maybe did zero to prep for the move to RT and so had to be moved back to G, also the other Guards stink.
Okorafor at LT - there's some optimism that it might work but given that he was cut by the Steelers, the optimism seems a bit premature.
Wallace at RT seems like that's where he's going to have to be to get him on the field.
Sow is meh, OK at LG.

Also noted-
OL coach Scott Peters is bit of an unknown but was passed up by the Browns, though he was their assistant OL coach the past 3 years.
Other front office staff around the league sees the personnel as not being a good fit for a zone running team due to overall size and lack of athleticism.

Read the article (Bedard loves his O-line talk and does a very good job with it) and it is definitely cause for concern and I don't think anyone who pays attention to this team is surprised...big picture this team lost its O-line magic when Dante retired...he was as good as there ever was and could pretty much work miracles...unfortunately BB didn't seem to think things would change when he retired (similar to the O with Brady) and here we are...this was an area they really needed to invest more into during free agency because they didn't have enough draft assets and with the holes at QB and WR there was only so much that could be accomplished in the draft...having a third rounder turn into your starting LT is probably a reach and I think they should be very pleased if Wallace turns into a quality starting RT...if Robinson turns into a starting G or at least a high-end backup that would be a very nice addition...I think they need to move on from Strange who was a foolish pick from the get-go...the real concern with Bedard's article is Mike O...with Andrews nearing the end it appeared he was kind of an anchor going forward and he was definitely paid as such...whether it is at G or T he needs to be top-of-the-line or a unit that already needs work will take another step backwards...that part of Bedard's article is very alarming...as for LT it is what it is at this point...if they can get average play out of Okorafor I think they will be pleased because unless something surprising happens I don't see this position being upgraded until next offseason with either a high #1 or high-end FA...they should have never gone as long with Trent Brown as they did...you just can't rely on him and that was pretty obvious...right now it is fingers crossed that between Wallace, Robinson, Sow and maybe Jake Andrews and Mafi they get at least two quality starters for the future and attack this unit in a big way next offseason.
 

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