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Indefinite New England Patriots Thread (1 Viewer)

The prospect of having 3/5 O Linemen that would even have a chance to start for many other teams is like rain in the desert.

Campbell -- Strange/Wilson -- Wilson/Bradbury-- Onwenu -- Moses.

And having one of Strange or Bradbury getting pushed to the bench and being able to fill in. Good god.

Obviously they're not done and still don't have enough quality depth. But if Wilson emerges, it's huge.
I need someone's help here.
On the radio today and I think it was Bedard say this backup G wouldn't measure up and probably not a good starter so they're looking to the rookie LG who has exceeded expectations.
....Conversation drifts and talk about rookie T and C battle and....
Comes back to same backup G and how he has a chance to start on the right.

I was driving so I could be mistaken but I don't think so. I see the post above and this one.

Are we talking below average and average players?
There's an almost hypocrisy that gave me "wait a sec, you just said...." Are the backup Gs good or not?
I think we need to keep things in perspective here. First off, line play across the league is suspect, so depth (along with front line starters) are being sought out on most teams. NE is starting from scratch. Not only are they trying to find a place to begin but they then have to let those players develop chemistry with one another. They at least seem to have pieces to work with. As many pundits have stated backup tackle is where they might be most vulnerable. Bradbury had his issues with the Vikings last year, but he is a veteran who is less likely to make mental mistakes. It would serve the team well if Wilson can develop into the starter at center. In the meantime, getting him on the field at guard could serve the team best in the long run as he develops into an NFL player. Strange, Wallace and Sow all have NFL backup potential given the state of the NFL. Campbell is going to have a steep learning curve which, hopefully, he quickly adjusts too. Josh should be able to help him out there with his play calling. Moses, given his age, is perhaps the greatest concern as far as his availability for 17 games.
The development of the line is a concern. But I think they have the pieces at guard and center, potentially. The depth at the tackle position is the most concerning to me.
 
The prospect of having 3/5 O Linemen that would even have a chance to start for many other teams is like rain in the desert.

Campbell -- Strange/Wilson -- Wilson/Bradbury-- Onwenu -- Moses.

And having one of Strange or Bradbury getting pushed to the bench and being able to fill in. Good god.

Obviously they're not done and still don't have enough quality depth. But if Wilson emerges, it's huge.
I need someone's help here.
On the radio today and I think it was Bedard say this backup G wouldn't measure up and probably not a good starter so they're looking to the rookie LG who has exceeded expectations.
....Conversation drifts and talk about rookie T and C battle and....
Comes back to same backup G and how he has a chance to start on the right.

I was driving so I could be mistaken but I don't think so. I see the post above and this one.

Are we talking below average and average players?
There's an almost hypocrisy that gave me "wait a sec, you just said...." Are the backup Gs good or not?
I think we need to keep things in perspective here. First off, line play across the league is suspect, so depth (along with front line starters) are being sought out on most teams. NE is starting from scratch. Not only are they trying to find a place to begin but they then have to let those players develop chemistry with one another. They at least seem to have pieces to work with. As many pundits have stated backup tackle is where they might be most vulnerable. Bradbury had his issues with the Vikings last year, but he is a veteran who is less likely to make mental mistakes. It would serve the team well if Wilson can develop into the starter at center. In the meantime, getting him on the field at guard could serve the team best in the long run as he develops into an NFL player. Strange, Wallace and Sow all have NFL backup potential given the state of the NFL. Campbell is going to have a steep learning curve which, hopefully, he quickly adjusts too. Josh should be able to help him out there with his play calling. Moses, given his age, is perhaps the greatest concern as far as his availability for 17 games.
The development of the line is a concern. But I think they have the pieces at guard and center, potentially. The depth at the tackle position is the most concerning to me.

As far as Wallace goes the good news is he appears to be playing well…the bad news is it looks like he is going to be a Guard and not a Tackle…agree with you that the main concern is Tackle and specifically Tackle depth…my hope is they are a league-average line this year with both Wilson and Campbell looking like long-term fixtures…it would also be very nice if we could get to a point where we can trust Onwenu for the long-term as well…especially with that contract.
 
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The prospect of having 3/5 O Linemen that would even have a chance to start for many other teams is like rain in the desert.

Campbell -- Strange/Wilson -- Wilson/Bradbury-- Onwenu -- Moses.

And having one of Strange or Bradbury getting pushed to the bench and being able to fill in. Good god.

Obviously they're not done and still don't have enough quality depth. But if Wilson emerges, it's huge.
I need someone's help here.
On the radio today and I think it was Bedard say this backup G wouldn't measure up and probably not a good starter so they're looking to the rookie LG who has exceeded expectations.
....Conversation drifts and talk about rookie T and C battle and....
Comes back to same backup G and how he has a chance to start on the right.

I was driving so I could be mistaken but I don't think so. I see the post above and this one.

Are we talking below average and average players?
There's an almost hypocrisy that gave me "wait a sec, you just said...." Are the backup Gs good or not?
I think we need to keep things in perspective here. First off, line play across the league is suspect, so depth (along with front line starters) are being sought out on most teams. NE is starting from scratch. Not only are they trying to find a place to begin but they then have to let those players develop chemistry with one another. They at least seem to have pieces to work with. As many pundits have stated backup tackle is where they might be most vulnerable. Bradbury had his issues with the Vikings last year, but he is a veteran who is less likely to make mental mistakes. It would serve the team well if Wilson can develop into the starter at center. In the meantime, getting him on the field at guard could serve the team best in the long run as he develops into an NFL player. Strange, Wallace and Sow all have NFL backup potential given the state of the NFL. Campbell is going to have a steep learning curve which, hopefully, he quickly adjusts too. Josh should be able to help him out there with his play calling. Moses, given his age, is perhaps the greatest concern as far as his availability for 17 games.
The development of the line is a concern. But I think they have the pieces at guard and center, potentially. The depth at the tackle position is the most concerning to me.
Thank you

It sounds like if they add a good RG it silences this stuff and ...I get it. Thanks.

My Titans are well stocked at G so maybe y'all will have some WW luck.

I find backup Ts to be a maddening topic. Somehow in the NFL it's ok to do poorly at developing backup QBs and Ts.
I've long been voicing how the UFLs best few tackles can at least play and be scrappy and fight. Meanwhile my Titans put in a turnstyle backup and I whine to at least try the blocking TE at tackle.

I've always thought Vrabel would love UFL guys but he doesn't really go to that well much. One here n there. Harbaugh signed the best UFL tackle and he did great the other night on just a few days practice too.

Great against third string or maybe even fourth. That isn't starting. Big mountain still to climb but if a third string tackle stinks then why is this not seen as progress? I think top OL from the UFL should be in every camp. Maybe even from the CFL because whew can those big fellas run. I'd be looking under every rock and trying anything.

Sorry, ranting...I get it
 
Bourne reads to me like he's about done. He's doing an old man script in my opinion.

I was surprised to see all the nice comments of Polk staying a long long time signing autographs. In the twenty second video, he was friendly and nice and maybe Vrabel got through to that kid.

I wasn't a fan of Mac Jones doing a patient and efficient Brady imitation. He was good for a year, no doubt, but Maye is fun. I see a lot of clones of Deion Branch in camp highlights and have a thought of McDaniels trying to make him all efficiently boring. Maybe Diggs is better than I expect and can be "the man" and everyone just plays off that.

McLaurin is a bad signing at his age, for a young team, but ...he might bring balance to the Pats and help Maye develop well.

Y'all have watched it for twenty years, you tell me. Is McDaniels about to turn Maye into a robot or will he have some fun and play the game this year?
 
Vrabel will be on Bussin with the Boys this week.
They're long interviews. Put it on a TV and make a sandwich type long
 

There was never a reason to use a first-round pick on him.
I believe it was the Rams coach, Sean McVay, who was at a microphone when the Patriots pick came in for Strange ...
... he started laughing then said something to the effect of "how dumb are we ... thinking we might get him in the 4th round".
In Belechicks quest to be thought of as a genius, he took some players way too early, hoping they'd become Hall of Famers and BB could then say "I told you so".
Instead BB just ran the team into the ground with a severe lack of talent influx year after year.
 
Never hear about a Head Coach getting bloodied as he jumps into a scrum
Demario Douglas got his attention as he screamed at him but the fight I think involved Henderson the rookie RB
Guess nobody had any video of what unfolded, just the aftermath
 

There was never a reason to use a first-round pick on him.
I believe it was the Rams coach, Sean McVay, who was at a microphone when the Patriots pick came in for Strange ...
... he started laughing then said something to the effect of "how dumb are we ... thinking we might get him in the 4th round".
In Belechicks quest to be thought of as a genius, he took some players way too early, hoping they'd become Hall of Famers and BB could then say "I told you so".
Instead BB just ran the team into the ground with a severe lack of talent influx year after year.

in the spirit of fairness I'd point out some context here. the cupboard was laid bare trying to keep getting Tom back to the superbowl after JimmyG had been run off....at which point Tom ran himself off. the sheer duration of the Pats/Brady/Kraft/Belichick dynasty including the implicit directionally correct personnel moves during that period is something to marvel at, and something that should be considered as context when sitting in judgement of BB's acts of desperation at the end of the run.
 

There was never a reason to use a first-round pick on him.
I believe it was the Rams coach, Sean McVay, who was at a microphone when the Patriots pick came in for Strange ...
... he started laughing then said something to the effect of "how dumb are we ... thinking we might get him in the 4th round".
In Belechicks quest to be thought of as a genius, he took some players way too early, hoping they'd become Hall of Famers and BB could then say "I told you so".
Instead BB just ran the team into the ground with a severe lack of talent influx year after year.

in the spirit of fairness I'd point out some context here. the cupboard was laid bare trying to keep getting Tom back to the superbowl after JimmyG had been run off....at which point Tom ran himself off. the sheer duration of the Pats/Brady/Kraft/Belichick dynasty including the implicit directionally correct personnel moves during that period is something to marvel at, and something that should be considered as context when sitting in judgement of BB's acts of desperation at the end of the run.
Not at all how I viewed it.
You would have a case for "trying to get Brady back to the Superbowl" if Belichick traded away draft picks to acquire vets that were past their prime.
That wasn't the case. In fact, BB was pretty stingy with his draft picks ... other than trading back to get more.
I would argue that Brady left BECAUSE the team had become so void of talent. Due to terrible drafting and lack of quality free agent signings.
Bradys last season in NE, it was obvious they weren't winning another SB anytime soon. Brady moved on to better pastures.
 

There was never a reason to use a first-round pick on him.
I believe it was the Rams coach, Sean McVay, who was at a microphone when the Patriots pick came in for Strange ...
... he started laughing then said something to the effect of "how dumb are we ... thinking we might get him in the 4th round".
In Belechicks quest to be thought of as a genius, he took some players way too early, hoping they'd become Hall of Famers and BB could then say "I told you so".
Instead BB just ran the team into the ground with a severe lack of talent influx year after year.

in the spirit of fairness I'd point out some context here. the cupboard was laid bare trying to keep getting Tom back to the superbowl after JimmyG had been run off....at which point Tom ran himself off. the sheer duration of the Pats/Brady/Kraft/Belichick dynasty including the implicit directionally correct personnel moves during that period is something to marvel at, and something that should be considered as context when sitting in judgement of BB's acts of desperation at the end of the run.
Not at all how I viewed it.
You would have a case for "trying to get Brady back to the Superbowl" if Belichick traded away draft picks to acquire vets that were past their prime.
That wasn't the case. In fact, BB was pretty stingy with his draft picks ... other than trading back to get more.
I would argue that Brady left BECAUSE the team had become so void of talent. Due to terrible drafting and lack of quality free agent signings.
Bradys last season in NE, it was obvious they weren't winning another SB anytime soon. Brady moved on to better pastures.

I thought it was over the second he hired Matt Patricia as the OC…truly one of all the all-time “I will never understand this” moves in sports history…now I realize it was over the second he hooked-up with Jor-Don…he hasn’t been thinking straight since.
 

There was never a reason to use a first-round pick on him.
I believe it was the Rams coach, Sean McVay, who was at a microphone when the Patriots pick came in for Strange ...
... he started laughing then said something to the effect of "how dumb are we ... thinking we might get him in the 4th round".
In Belechicks quest to be thought of as a genius, he took some players way too early, hoping they'd become Hall of Famers and BB could then say "I told you so".
Instead BB just ran the team into the ground with a severe lack of talent influx year after year.

in the spirit of fairness I'd point out some context here. the cupboard was laid bare trying to keep getting Tom back to the superbowl after JimmyG had been run off....at which point Tom ran himself off. the sheer duration of the Pats/Brady/Kraft/Belichick dynasty including the implicit directionally correct personnel moves during that period is something to marvel at, and something that should be considered as context when sitting in judgement of BB's acts of desperation at the end of the run.

Tom didn’t “run himself off”
 
I hope you get an interview to watch with him just before cut down day.
He's so smart and blunt (kinda Bellichick-ian) how he talks that when he did with the Titans it was everything.
I almost knew the 53, I had a good idea why they added this guy and that guy from the WW soon after and sometimes even why they're not doing certain plays.

I think Vrabel made him stop because he was pointing out weaknesses for the opponents but it's a new day, maybe he lets him again
 
T. Henderson looks like the real deal. He's going to get a lot of usage in this McDaniel's offense. Hype train is going to go off the rails this week.

I know it was against of 2nd and 3rd stringers early on, but it's clear that we are far from the dumpster fire we were a year ago.

Meanwhile, J. Dobbs did no favors for the WRs last night. Jeesh. I wish they could do better at the backup QB position. He's terrible.
 
Another step in the right direction...a few random thoughts based on yesterday and the overall camp:

*Vrabel knows what he is doing...you can already see the culture-change he has instilled...the Pats are not going to lose any games due to coaching while he is here.

*Love what I saw out of the rookie class...Henderson has a chance to be a game-changer...Williams looks like there is definitely something there...could not be happier with what I am seeing with the rookie O-linemen...I absolutely love how Campbell plays and he has Captain written all over him...Wilson is gonna be legit and they may have found something with the Bryant kid...it is possible when it is all said and done that they got three starters on the line out of this draft (if it is two starters and a swing-tackle that is still A+)...Chism is going to make it difficult to not put him on the 53 man...Woodson looks like he can play...Larison has a chance to make this team...still a very long way to go but it is very encouraging watching these rookies so far after it being a black hole for quite some time.

*Looks like Polk and Bourne are going to be the odd men out at WR...Diggs, Pop, Boutte, Williams and Hollins are looking like definites and Chism is definitely knocking on the door because I do think it is going to be very difficult to get him on the PS...their potential FB got hurt and not sure if they have a #3 TE on the roster right now so hopefully they can find a spot for him if he can continue building on last night's performance...Baker suddenly embracing special teams is a new turn of events...reports on him lately have been much better as well...just not sure how they can keep him with how everyone else is looking.

*I wish the Brady statue was based on something he actually did like the Bobby Orr statue at the Garden is...just feels like it loses some soul because that part is missing.
 
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Lan Larison put on season-ending IR…too bad…it was a nice story and it looks like he has some potential to be a Brandon Bolden type of player…Pats signed Deneric Prince…if the WRs keep playing well RB is another position like TE where they could go thin so they can keep an extra WR…Giardi mentioned that keeping 7 WRs might not be out of the question to start the year.
 
Giardi on Chism...Vrabel pointing out "physicality' is a big thing since that has been one of his points of emphasis in building the new culture.

I haven't been caught up in the Efton Chism hype train. Yes, he has the makings of an NFL player, but his best work came during the spring, and with all due respect, football isn't played in shorts and t-shirts. So when Chism struggled to produce consistently during the start of camp, it looked more and more like he was a practice squad candidate/developmental player.

But the last few days have certainly made me reconsider that stance. Chism was rock solid in the joint practice with the Commanders on Wednesday, then added six receptions for 50 yards and a touchdown in Friday night's preseason opener.

“It was awesome. Super surreal,” he said after the game. “You kind of walk out of the tunnel with everyone...it’s just a blessing to be out here. I don’t take for granted that I got to go out there and play. Definitely super awesome, and I’m super thankful for the opportunity.”

Chism was beaming from ear to ear as he stood at the podium and fielded questions. It certainly helped that Mike Vrabel praised the youngster for the physicality he displayed as a blocker and for how he finished his runs. One in particular, a short gain in the right flat, was punctuated by Chism lowering his shoulder and running through a defender. Yes, it was unexpected, and the bench absolutely lost their minds, hooting, hollering, and flexing.

"I think his play strength stood out to me, just from the sideline,” said Vrabel. “I think it’s the way he blocks, his ability to catch the ball in traffic. The ball was basically tipped or bobbled coming out of Ben’s [Wooldridge] hand, kind of ran through a tackle, ran through contact, and we threw him a screen. So, those are all positive things. I think his play strength to me is what stood out.”

“Anytime you kind of get a compliment from a head coach, it’s definitely an honor,” said Chism. “So, I appreciate that from him. But I feel like just playing hard, that’s kind of what I pride myself on, and the little details and going out there and doing everything I can to my full ability. So, I felt like when I got the ball, I got to show that, but even in the blocking, I try to show that in the running, blocking, and the route running, whatever it is, just kind of playing hard.”

The Pats could keep seven receivers on the initial 53-man roster. Considering there are five locks (Diggs, Douglas, Hollins, Williams, Boutte), the door is very much open for Chism to earn a spot. And even if he doesn't, the likelihood of him being claimed on waivers is relatively low, as teams seem more and more inclined to keep the players they've been working with since the spring. Then again, if Chism has another week like this past one, he might just make his case so strong the Patriots don't want to risk his loss. Not bad for an undrafted player.
 
Not sure what to make of W. Campbell's performance.

He and Wilson for sure had a major screw up on Maye's disastrous turnover, but on the flip side there seems to be a lot of good film out there on Campbell (and Wilson). Baldinger was drooling over Campbell finishing blocks until the whistle and pissing people off.

Meanwhile, and not surprisingly, the Felger crew was total meh on Campbell.

Two rookies on the blind side is highly unusual. Some stat out there it's been 20+ years since that has taken place. Hope these two rooks learn....FAST.
 
Not sure what to make of W. Campbell's performance.

He and Wilson for sure had a major screw up on Maye's disastrous turnover, but on the flip side there seems to be a lot of good film out there on Campbell (and Wilson). Baldinger was drooling over Campbell finishing blocks until the whistle and pissing people off.

Meanwhile, and not surprisingly, the Felger crew was total meh on Campbell.

Two rookies on the blind side is highly unusual. Some stat out there it's been 20+ years since that has taken place. Hope these two rooks learn....FAST.

I am by no means an expert but I was totally focused on him and really liked what I saw...he has great footwork and plays with a nasty edge...there are going to be rookie moments like the play you mentioned but I stand by what I thought when they drafted him...he is Matt Light 2.0...like Light he may not be an All Pro but he will be a high-level LT that you can trust and win with for the next 10 years...I also expect him to be a Captain as soon as next year.
 
Phil Perry with a new 53-man projection after the Washington game:

Groupjng it Edge, DT, and (I)LBs fifteen seems a lot. IDK them we'll enough to say anything more than a number.

I think more old school 3-4, 4-3 with DEs and OLBs.

I liked Jennings for what he was- a big ILB and his switch to OLB did show he doesn't have explosion but tough run stuffer still. There such a weak market for LBs that it's a shame they can't trade him for some peanuts at least.

3 TEs is too low but looking at Ourlads, I don't know the 4th and on so maybe they will be taking whoever the Titans cut or adding elsewhere.

Vrabel's own Patriots and Steelers days, Arthur and Lafleur coaching under him, adding Mack's blocking...McDaniels can run his offense and all but Vrabel's mark on it will definitely be an occasional big boy 2-3 TE set that reminds you he is a big fan of Parcells too.
The rookie tackle too. Some days he's just gonna need TE help.

Do you guys like the 4th RB? I swear I just read about him or they added someone.

Chism looked good in the highlights.
 
I see it-
#Patriots undrafted RB Lan Larison will undergo surgery on a broken foot he suffered against Washington, per
@ByMarkDaniels
.

Larison broke his foot mid-game and played the rest of the way on one healthy foot, even scoring a touchdown late in the game! 🤯
 
As always gotta take it with a grain of salt but solid first half which I am going to over-react to anyways...Henderson looks like he is going to be special...overall this rookie class look like it could be very good...absolutely love what I see out of Chism, he is sneaky strong...he's not gonna just make this team but he is going to be a factor...I like what I see out of Marcus Bryant, could be a real steal in the 7th round...Truman Jones is going to make this team...ugly miss by the rookie kicker, this job is wide-open...this Iton kid shows up a decent amount...zero doubt Vrabel has this team headed in the right direction.
 
Phil Perry's updated 53-man projection:

Perry has Dugger not making the team, which only makes sense if they’re going to find a trade partner. The cap hit would be too large cutting him now ($14.25m in dead cap this year and $9m toward 2026’s cap). Trading him would save over $10m toward this year’s cap.
 
Phil Perry's updated 53-man projection:

Perry has Dugger not making the team, which only makes sense if they’re going to find a trade partner. The cap hit would be too large cutting him now ($14.25m in dead cap this year and $9m toward 2026’s cap). Trading him would save over $10m toward this year’s cap.

It appears he has definitely fallen out of favor with Vrabel and how he wants to play D...Dugger has always been over-rated...the key is figuring out a way to move on from him and not get whacked on the $ side...gotta believe that will be tricky.
 
I liked the Chism highlights and Reiss' piece on Boutte turning it around.
It seems Vrabel has coached and given opportunities and then all but weeded WRs out like everyone hoped for when he was added as coach.

(Maybe Reiss' again) I saw a bit about fixing a lineman up with pad level and hand placement. Former HC as OL coach but that's Vrabel's thing he always mentions.

Y'all seem to be getting what Vrabes promised or expected. Pats still need pieces but do you feel good about it?
Callahan is usually a mess and I don't have the vibe Vrabel gives. Maybe I have what y'all felt last year.
Do you notice the stability or direction? Like we may not be there but we are on the path
 
I liked the Chism highlights and Reiss' piece on Boutte turning it around.
It seems Vrabel has coached and given opportunities and then all but weeded WRs out like everyone hoped for when he was added as coach.

(Maybe Reiss' again) I saw a bit about fixing a lineman up with pad level and hand placement. Former HC as OL coach but that's Vrabel's thing he always mentions.

Y'all seem to be getting what Vrabes promised or expected. Pats still need pieces but do you feel good about it?
Callahan is usually a mess and I don't have the vibe Vrabel gives. Maybe I have what y'all felt last year.
Do you notice the stability or direction? Like we may not be there but we are on the path

The difference between last year and BB's last year (and probably last two seasons) is astronomical...I cannot stress how much better it is...you can already see the professionalism and culture Vrabel wants to establish and there is zero doubt who is in charge both on and off the field...going into this season I thought there were three things that were most important (along with improving your record from being a 4-win team to the 8-win area)...they were:

*Vrabel instilling a new culture...check

*Drake Maye's development...Vrabel and McDaniels (love his hiring) are pushing him hard and by all accounts the kid is doing everything the right way as both a QB and a leader...I truly believe this kid has a chance to be very special...remember, he will only be 23 at the end of this month

*The 2025 draft class...there are many reasons the Pats bottomed-out post TB12 but it is tough not to put their drafts at the top...obviously still early but this draft class (along with rookie free agents) has a chance to be first-rate and be one that can be part of the foundation for becoming a legit contender again...below is a little rookie blog from Jerry Thornton

Overall, I don't know how any Patriot fan can't be optimistic right now...they still have a long way to go to be close to the Bills, Chiefs and Ravens and there will be plenty of ups and down this season but right now I am the most fired-up for a season I have been since TB12 left...really looking forward to watching this team develop.

 
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I liked the Chism highlights and Reiss' piece on Boutte turning it around.
It seems Vrabel has coached and given opportunities and then all but weeded WRs out like everyone hoped for when he was added as coach.

(Maybe Reiss' again) I saw a bit about fixing a lineman up with pad level and hand placement. Former HC as OL coach but that's Vrabel's thing he always mentions.

Y'all seem to be getting what Vrabes promised or expected. Pats still need pieces but do you feel good about it?
Callahan is usually a mess and I don't have the vibe Vrabel gives. Maybe I have what y'all felt last year.
Do you notice the stability or direction? Like we may not be there but we are on the path

The difference between last year and BB's last year (and probably last two seasons) is astronomical...I cannot stress how much better it is...you can already see the professionalism and culture Vrabel wants to establish and there is zero doubt who is in charge both on and off the field...going into this season I thought there were three things that were most important (along with improving your record from being a 4-win team to the 8-win area)...they were:

*Vrabel instilling a new culture...check

*Drake Maye's development...Vrabel and McDaniels (love his hiring) are pushing him hard and by all accounts the kid is doing everything the right way as both a QB and a leader...I truly believe this kid has a chance to be very special...remember, he will only be 23 at the end of this month

*The 2025 draft class...there are many reasons the Pats bottomed-out post TB12 but it is tough not to put their drafts at the top...obviously still early but this draft class (along with rookie free agents) has a chance to be first-rate and be one that can be part of the foundation for becoming a legit contender again...below is a little rookie blog from Jerry Thornton

Overall, I don't know how any Patriot fan can't be optimistic right now...they still have a long way to go to be close to the Bills, Chiefs and Ravens and there will be plenty of ups and down this season but right now I am the most fired-up for a season I have been since TB12 left...really looking forward to watching this team develop.


Insert Anarchy's reality check here.

I'm optimistic. Hopefully it translates into some Ws.
 
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I liked the Chism highlights and Reiss' piece on Boutte turning it around.
It seems Vrabel has coached and given opportunities and then all but weeded WRs out like everyone hoped for when he was added as coach.

(Maybe Reiss' again) I saw a bit about fixing a lineman up with pad level and hand placement. Former HC as OL coach but that's Vrabel's thing he always mentions.

Y'all seem to be getting what Vrabes promised or expected. Pats still need pieces but do you feel good about it?
Callahan is usually a mess and I don't have the vibe Vrabel gives. Maybe I have what y'all felt last year.
Do you notice the stability or direction? Like we may not be there but we are on the path

The difference between last year and BB's last year (and probably last two seasons) is astronomical...I cannot stress how much better it is...you can already see the professionalism and culture Vrabel wants to establish and there is zero doubt who is in charge both on and off the field...going into this season I thought there were three things that were most important (along with improving your record from being a 4-win team to the 8-win area)...they were:

*Vrabel instilling a new culture...check

*Drake Maye's development...Vrabel and McDaniels (love his hiring) are pushing him hard and by all accounts the kid is doing everything the right way as both a QB and a leader...I truly believe this kid has a chance to be very special...remember, he will only be 23 at the end of this month

*The 2025 draft class...there are many reasons the Pats bottomed-out post TB12 but it is tough not to put their drafts at the top...obviously still early but this draft class (along with rookie free agents) has a chance to be first-rate and be one that can be part of the foundation for becoming a legit contender again...below is a little rookie blog from Jerry Thornton

Overall, I don't know how any Patriot fan can't be optimistic right now...they still have a long way to go to be close to the Bills, Chiefs and Ravens and there will be plenty of ups and down this season but right now I am the most fired-up for a season I have been since TB12 left...really looking forward to watching this team develop.


Insert Anarchy's reality check here.

I'm optimistic. Hopefully it translates into some Ws.

I try to get not too caught up in the W's and L's...the big thing is they are headed in the right direction...that being said once you take a look at their schedule your mind can wander.
 
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A couple of points from recent podcasts that I'm curious to hear reactions from the regulars here.....

Mike Giardi thinks Diggs will not be a thousand yard receiver and that Douglas may be the better value play as he will be the Welker to Diggs's Moss.

SI's Mike Kadlick calls Boutte WR3 versus Hollins when previously I understood the top 3 to be Diggs/Douglas/Hollins. He has Hollins as WR4 and Chism now WR5.
 
A couple of points from recent podcasts that I'm curious to hear reactions from the regulars here.....

Mike Giardi thinks Diggs will not be a thousand yard receiver and that Douglas may be the better value play as he will be the Welker to Diggs's Moss.

SI's Mike Kadlick calls Boutte WR3 versus Hollins when previously I understood the top 3 to be Diggs/Douglas/Hollins. He has Hollins as WR4 and Chism now WR5.
The one thing I have heard that was a bit shocking is that it appears Dugger may be on the roster bubble. He played until the end of the game the other night. His near fumble on the last play almost cost them the game. Key players are not in the last play of a preseason game. Peppers is likely going to start and that would put Dugger on the bench. Having a $14M a year backup doesnt make sense.
 
A couple of points from recent podcasts that I'm curious to hear reactions from the regulars here.....

Mike Giardi thinks Diggs will not be a thousand yard receiver and that Douglas may be the better value play as he will be the Welker to Diggs's Moss.

SI's Mike Kadlick calls Boutte WR3 versus Hollins when previously I understood the top 3 to be Diggs/Douglas/Hollins. He has Hollins as WR4 and Chism now WR5.

IMO I think it is still a work in progress and a lot of it is based on unexpected stuff;

*I feel like Bourne isn't even on the team anymore...some thought his experience playing for McDaniels would be a plus but unless we are missing something he is a goner...Polk is becoming an afterthought...with his injury he could survive and go on IR but it really doesn't feel like he is in their plans...Baker feels like another odd man out unless they think he can really contribute on special teams

*Boutte...was an x-factor going into the season but it looks like he has got his head on straight and they trust him...as far as whether he the #3 or Hollins is it will all depend on Boutte...we know what Hollins is and him being a #3 is a stretch...that is not the role you want him in...if Boutte continues what he is doing in camp he will be ahead of Hollins as it makes sense both short and long term

*Pop...nothing but positive news on him during preseason but I am still not sold, especially as a slot WR...he can be a weapon but until I see him taking constant hits I don't know if we can rely on him to be a consistent presence

*Diggs...I get the feeling once the real games start we are going to realize pretty quickly he will be their best WR in 2025 by a decent amount...as for 1,000 yards I do think he can do it as that is averaging 59 yards per game which I think is very doable if he plays all 17 games

*Williams...looks the part of what they drafted and brings something different than the other WRs...he is going to be part of this offense this year but right now it is really difficult to get a handle on how much...I am hoping that this time next year we are comfortable saying he is a core part of this offense

*Chism...the biggest wildcard...I am trying not to over-react (and not doing a good job with it) but when I watch him I see Welker...I fully understand that going against starters is totally different but everything I see in this kid says slot-WR for McDaniels...the power for his size he is showing is something I just don't see in Pop and it is vital for that role...gonna be real interesting to see where this ends up because the swing could be anywhere from being a non-factor to being their slot WR for the near future...if he is legit it will be a huge addition

Overall I think this unit will be vastly improved over last year (how could it not be) but still very much a work in progress...my hope is that Williams, Boutte and Chism (as well as Pop) all establish themselves and the Pats are one alpha WR (that they get via the draft, trade or free agency) away from having a legit WR unit to grow with Maye for 2026 and beyond.
 
Overall I think this unit will be vastly improved over last year (how could it not be) but still very much a work in progress...my hope is that Williams, Boutte and Chism (as well as Pop) all establish themselves and the Pats are one alpha WR (that they get via the draft, trade or free agency) away from having a legit WR unit to grow with Maye for 2026 and beyond.

are they already talking to the Commanders? :D
 
If you know Vrabel added Hollins for his blocking and Trayveon likes to run wide; how do you split that Boutte Hollins split you're discussing?
 

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