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Indefinite New England Patriots Thread (4 Viewers)

ratbast said:
What’s his story? LB bench depth and Special Teams standout? 
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Special teams player mostly but he has played sparingly on defense. NE becomes his 8th team in 8 years, so I am guessing he isn’t a standout at much of anything. But maybe BB can find something he can do well in small doses. 

 
This defense could be really interesting, tons of rotational pieces up front, versatility at LB and the DBs are top notch(if current group stays in tact). Add a young sideline to sideline type MLB and we could be looking at an elite D :popcorn:

 
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RUNNING BACK

Currently on the roster:

Damien Harris RB 90.3 57.1
Sony Michael RB 80.9 68 75.8
James White RB 65.5 76.1 71
Brandon Bolden RB 68.3 76.2 57.2
J.J. Taylor RB 61.2
Danny Vitale FB 49.3


Former NE Players:

Rex Burkhead RB 78.2 70.2 61
Dion Lewis RB 54.7 60.2 65.3
Kenjon Barner RB 60.6 60 59.4
James Develin FB 51.7 56.8


Other Notables:

Derrick Henry RB 92.4 76.2 85.3
Dalvin Cook RB 89 81.3 72.6
Nick Chubb RB 87.2 88.7 86.4
Jonathan Taylor RB 83.9
Alvin Kamara RB 82.2 70 82.9
D Montgomery RB 81.7 66.6
Aaron Jones RB 79.4 84.8 80.7
C McCaffrey RB 75.5 86.5 82.8


I knew Harris had a good year last year, but he scored insanely well (like #2 in the league good). For all the grief the message board has given Sony Michel, his performance was also very good. Also noteworthy was that Rex Burkhead's season score was better than any of James White's seasons. White may have had a bigger impact by playing more snaps or getting more touches in prior years, but on a per play basis last year Burkhead did really well. Since blowing up his knee, ACL surgery,  and going on IR in November, there has been very little reported on his health and availability for 2021.

I would have thought Develin would have had a bigger impact than the numbers show. Apparently his skill set was lead blocking on runs, but they never used him much either running or receiving and that keep his PFF score down. Lewis the last couple of years has become much more of an afterthought at the RB position.

We've already debated White coming back, and the jury's still out in terms of whether that was a smart move or not. The Pats need to either get Cam on the same page with White coming out of the backfield or have unnamed QB of the future start building some chemistry with him. I would guess neither one of the options will happen enough to make White a real contributor like he was with Brady a couple of years.

As far as 2021 goes, NE should be fine but beyond that they need RB help. They are limited in roster spots this year, so maybe they will hold off on drafting someone else until next year. Or maybe Rex is healthy enough to come back for all or most of the season.

 
Matt Lacosse too could be cut candidate. Like Vitale low dead money and decent savings on the cap where there are a lot of bodies. Keene as a 4th TE and back up FB makes sense. 

 
Blackbear said:
Matt Lacosse too could be cut candidate. Like Vitale low dead money and decent savings on the cap where there are a lot of bodies. Keene as a 4th TE and back up FB makes sense. 
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Moving on from Vitale and LaCosse would net them an extra $2.5M in cap space.

 
Anarchy99 said:
They did a Zoom with him but I doubt they would take him at 15. Maybe if they trade down. Although I still think they will trade up for a QB if their guy falls a few picks.
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As a WFT fan I dont think they could trade back further than 18 to get Collins, since Washington would be very interested in him considering their LB problems.

 
Anarchy99 said:
RUNNING BACK

Currently on the roster:

Damien Harris RB 90.3 57.1
Sony Michael RB 80.9 68 75.8
James White RB 65.5 76.1 71
Brandon Bolden RB 68.3 76.2 57.2
J.J. Taylor RB 61.2
Danny Vitale FB 49.3


Former NE Players:

Rex Burkhead RB 78.2 70.2 61
Dion Lewis RB 54.7 60.2 65.3
Kenjon Barner RB 60.6 60 59.4
James Develin FB 51.7 56.8


Other Notables:

Derrick Henry RB 92.4 76.2 85.3
Dalvin Cook RB 89 81.3 72.6
Nick Chubb RB 87.2 88.7 86.4
Jonathan Taylor RB 83.9
Alvin Kamara RB 82.2 70 82.9
D Montgomery RB 81.7 66.6
Aaron Jones RB 79.4 84.8 80.7
C McCaffrey RB 75.5 86.5 82.8


I knew Harris had a good year last year, but he scored insanely well (like #2 in the league good). For all the grief the message board has given Sony Michel, his performance was also very good. Also noteworthy was that Rex Burkhead's season score was better than any of James White's seasons. White may have had a bigger impact by playing more snaps or getting more touches in prior years, but on a per play basis last year Burkhead did really well. Since blowing up his knee, ACL surgery,  and going on IR in November, there has been very little reported on his health and availability for 2021.

I would have thought Develin would have had a bigger impact than the numbers show. Apparently his skill set was lead blocking on runs, but they never used him much either running or receiving and that keep his PFF score down. Lewis the last couple of years has become much more of an afterthought at the RB position.

We've already debated White coming back, and the jury's still out in terms of whether that was a smart move or not. The Pats need to either get Cam on the same page with White coming out of the backfield or have unnamed QB of the future start building some chemistry with him. I would guess neither one of the options will happen enough to make White a real contributor like he was with Brady a couple of years.

As far as 2021 goes, NE should be fine but beyond that they need RB help. They are limited in roster spots this year, so maybe they will hold off on drafting someone else until next year. Or maybe Rex is healthy enough to come back for all or most of the season.
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I guess this means let Harris eat as much as he can. He looked great last year. 

 
NorrisB said:
As a WFT fan I dont think they could trade back further than 18 to get Collins, since Washington would be very interested in him considering their LB problems.
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Patriots have a lot of OLB. They just signed Judson and Van Noy to go with youngsters Winovich, Uche, and Jennings. They likely will kick Van Noy inside ILB in a 3-4 defense. I think their need area is either QB, OT, or a CB. 

 
Blackbear said:
Patriots have a lot of OLB. They just signed Judson and Van Noy to go with youngsters Winovich, Uche, and Jennings. They likely will kick Van Noy inside ILB in a 3-4 defense. I think their need area is either QB, OT, or a CB. 
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Arent Bentley and Hightower kinda ####ty ILBs?  Also wouldnt Barmore make sense?

 
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NorrisB said:
Arent Bentley and Hightower kinda ####ty ILBs?  Also wouldnt Barmore make sense?
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NE isn't exactly stacked with talent, so a case could be made that a first round pick could be used on just about anything. The franchise is DOA without getting a QB. They certainly need a WR1. RB is a strength this year but not for future years. They could always use an OT. BB loves his DLmen. If they more Gilmore they need CB help. Chung retired and McCourty is old, so they need safety help. I believe they have at least 8 LB listed on the roster. COuld they use a stud LB? Sure . . . which team couldn't? There are lots of ways or directions they can go in the draft and although they improved their core of talent, they still need a lot more impact players.

Only BB knows their draft board and what he plans to do with probably Plans B-Z in tow if Plan A doesn't materialize. But at this point, if they don't add a QB between now and training camp, they risk being mediocre again this year and next.

 
Blackbear said:
Hightower. Is a great ilb. Bentley decent but unproven. 
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IMO, Hightower's best days are behind him. His leadership and crunch time play are both great, but he's basically an average LB at this point. Given that they didn't get average LB play last year, that means he is an upgrade vs. the guys that were overmatched last year. Doesn't make him great though. IMO, not worth almost a $12.5M cap hit.

 
So trade up with Detroit would be their best option to get Lance?  If they passed on Love why would they trade up for Lance?  If that fails, reach on Mac Jones?  What about pulling Belichicks favorite move and trade back to the second round taking someone like QB Davis Mills?  Grab Kellen Mond in the 3rd?

Anarchy99 said:
NE isn't exactly stacked with talent, so a case could be made that a first round pick could be used on just about anything. The franchise is DOA without getting a QB. They certainly need a WR1. RB is a strength this year but not for future years. They could always use an OT. BB loves his DLmen. If they more Gilmore they need CB help. Chung retired and McCourty is old, so they need safety help. I believe they have at least 8 LB listed on the roster. COuld they use a stud LB? Sure . . . which team couldn't? There are lots of ways or directions they can go in the draft and although they improved their core of talent, they still need a lot more impact players.

Only BB knows their draft board and what he plans to do with probably Plans B-Z in tow if Plan A doesn't materialize. But at this point, if they don't add a QB between now and training camp, they risk being mediocre again this year and next.
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Blackbear said:
Hightower. Is a great ilb. Bentley decent but unproven. 
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To me they're similar in physical abilities right now but Hightower understands and processes what's happening much faster. Would like to see another season from Hightower. Not so much for Bentley.

 
SeniorVBDStudent said:
Do you think Atlanta would avoid Fields if available?  
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I think they would. In my humble opinion, which I know you didn’t ask for... Ryan is a decent QB entering his prime. He’s had a super bowl in his grasp. Knows the offense and has shown no signs of falling off the cliff. With Brady as an example, he will still be their franchise QB. I think he is better than what he’s been given credit for. 

 
Lawrence Guy’s contract is one where the numbers are both high and low. 4 years worth up to $24M. But it’s really 4 years for $11.5M and the rest is all incentives. 

White’s contract has some weird language that makes his cap number only $1.2M. Bottom line, NE with a smidge under $12M left in cap space as currently constituted. But they certainly have ways to free up more space if needed. 

 
Except the Niners are already saying they are keeping Garoppolo for this year. So unless BB really wants to make a Godfather trade to move up, it's another year of Cam (and maybe the guy they take in the 2nd round).

 
Blackbear said:
Unless they cut him.
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Per Shefter, SF keeping Garoppolo this year and have no interest in trading him. He's not going anywhere. And he has a no trade clause (if that matters). This has been what they have been saying all off season, so not really a surprise.

 
Anarchy99 said:
Per Shefter, SF keeping Garoppolo this year and have no interest in trading him. He's not going anywhere. And he has a no trade clause (if that matters). This has been what they have been saying all off season, so not really a surprise.
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Right. Unless they cut him. 

 
Anarchy99 said:
Per Shefter, SF keeping Garoppolo this year and have no interest in trading him. He's not going anywhere. And he has a no trade clause (if that matters). This has been what they have been saying all off season, so not really a surprise.
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My theory is this is just SF trying to strongarm BB into over-paying (or vice-versa viz. under-paying) for JG. 

JG has some stink on him from his time in NE (not a great practice player, failure to thrive) so I don't see NE selling the farm for a B+ quarterback (cue Anarchy pointing out that Cam has been a D+ qb during his NE tenure).

 
Blackbear said:
I think they would. In my humble opinion, which I know you didn’t ask for... Ryan is a decent QB entering his prime. He’s had a super bowl in his grasp. Knows the offense and has shown no signs of falling off the cliff. With Brady as an example, he will still be their franchise QB. I think he is better than what he’s been given credit for. 
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We agree.  But I don't think Mr. Blank agrees.

 
Blackbear said:
You think Jimmy G is equivalent to Mahomes and Rodgers?
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No. But if SF fashions themselves as legit contenders this year, they will need someone that knows their system and has experience (ie, not a rookie). I have seen scenarios where the Niners ended up with Darnold once the Jets take Wilson, but that would make a lot less sense now.

 
SeniorVBDStudent said:
My theory is this is just SF trying to strongarm BB into over-paying (or vice-versa viz. under-paying) for JG. 

JG has some stink on him from his time in NE (not a great practice player, failure to thrive) so I don't see NE selling the farm for a B+ quarterback (cue Anarchy pointing out that Cam has been a D+ qb during his NE tenure).
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Just what NE needs. Not one . . . BUT TWO oft-injured and underperforming quarterbacks. Over his career, Garoppolo is straddling the line of having missed more games than he was available to play in (since he became a starter). That and both guys are mediocre when they play.

If NE ends up having to roll out either of those two, NE would have to have an ELITE defense to make a run this year. I don't see that happening, and if they were to continue to improve defensively they would need to draft defense early and often this draft (and hit on their picks). I have little faith in Newton or Garoppolo being strong leaders and being able to mount comebacks at the end of games.

 
Anarchy99 said:
Just what NE needs. Not one . . . BUT TWO oft-injured and underperforming quarterbacks. Over his career, Garoppolo is straddling the line of having missed more games than he was available to play in (since he became a starter). That and both guys are mediocre when they play.

If NE ends up having to roll out either of those two, NE would have to have an ELITE defense to make a run this year. I don't see that happening, and if they were to continue to improve defensively they would need to draft defense early and often this draft (and hit on their picks). I have little faith in Newton or Garoppolo being strong leaders and being able to mount comebacks at the end of games.
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We agree wrt JG.  I wan't to believe Cam is better than 2020 Cam.

 
Anarchy99 said:
Just what NE needs. Not one . . . BUT TWO oft-injured and underperforming quarterbacks. Over his career, Garoppolo is straddling the line of having missed more games than he was available to play in (since he became a starter). That and both guys are mediocre when they play.

If NE ends up having to roll out either of those two, NE would have to have an ELITE defense to make a run this year. I don't see that happening, and if they were to continue to improve defensively they would need to draft defense early and often this draft (and hit on their picks). I have little faith in Newton or Garoppolo being strong leaders and being able to mount comebacks at the end of games.
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So Stidham for you? If not Stidham, then who? 

 
SeniorVBDStudent said:
We agree wrt JG.  I wan't to believe Cam is better than 2020 Cam.
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Things Cam can do better on in 2021:

- Avoid getting COVID
- Better grasp of the playbook
- Upgraded skill position players
- More practice time

Things I am not sure Cam will do better in 2021:

- Pocket presence and spacing within the pocket
- Decision making
- Untimely turnovers / hero ball
- Shoulder may be shot / can't throw more than 10 yards
- Accuracy
- Other injuries

So sure, that first grouping should lead him to do a little better. But that second grouping probably keeps him at a below average productivity level.

I am not sure if the running game and defense are good enough to overcome Newton's limitations. Certainly I hope he can do a lot better than he showed last year.

 
Anarchy99 said:
No. But if SF fashions themselves as legit contenders this year, they will need someone that knows their system and has experience (ie, not a rookie). I have seen scenarios where the Niners ended up with Darnold once the Jets take Wilson, but that would make a lot less sense now.
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Why would anyone want Darnold? 
 

Watch somehow everything is going good for us actually buying free agents at record levels for us and Belichick trades a boat load for Darnold just to trigger me. 

 
Blackbear said:
So Stidham for you? If not Stidham, then who? 
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I don't like Stidham much either . . . given that he doesn't really seem much more than a Summer Camp Program Coordinator these days. Having some teammates over to play catch is nice and all, but that is probably trying to score brownie points with BB.

 
Anarchy99 said:
Why would anyone want Garoppolo?
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If you take away the injury risk he is good. He did go to the super bowl... though didn’t fair well in that super bowl. Darnold has not done a damn thing. And he was out with injury too. If this team gets Darnold then I’m going to rage drop them. Please don’t mention this guy as any sort of good thing again. He sucks. You know that.

 
Blackbear said:
If you take away the injury risk he is good. He did go to the super bowl... though didn’t fair well in that super bowl. Darnold has not done a damn thing. And he was out with injury too. If this team gets Darnold then I’m going to rage drop them. Please don’t mention this guy as any sort of good thing again. He sucks. You know that.
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I never once suggested he was good. But the Jets coach came from the SF organization, which is why people are connecting the dots to get Darnold to the 49ers. I don't see any desire for NE to have the slightest bit of interest in him.

That doesn't change the overriding issue that I just don't think Jimmy G much more than average. Yes, the Niners won games with him when their defense was out of this world, scary good. He had 11 games with 30+ passing attempts and a passer rating of 90+ and 7 games with 30+ passes and a passer rating of under 85.

Do you consider the NE offense overall as being better or worse than the 49ers?

 
There have been a bunch of callers lately on talk radio asking how the Pats would do this season with Brady instead of Newton (with the same roster they have now). That's not exactly a fair question, as things would have played out much differently to get to this point. The question has mostly been avoided with BETTER being the simple response. Would they be considered better than the Chiefs / Bills / Ravens / Dolphins / Browns / Colts?

 
Anarchy99 said:
I never once suggested he was good. But the Jets coach came from the SF organization, which is why people are connecting the dots to get Darnold to the 49ers. I don't see any desire for NE to have the slightest bit of interest in him.

That doesn't change the overriding issue that I just don't think Jimmy G much more than average. Yes, the Niners won games with him when their defense was out of this world, scary good. He had 11 games with 30+ passing attempts and a passer rating of 90+ and 7 games with 30+ passes and a passer rating of under 85.

Do you consider the NE offense overall as being better or worse than the 49ers?
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49ers better with Jimmy G. If Patriots had Jimmy G then Patriots better. 

 
Blackbear said:
49ers better with Jimmy G. If Patriots had Jimmy G then Patriots better. 
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Mike Giardi tweeted that there are at least two other teams interested in Garoppolo, so the narrative that he ends up in NE after being cut or traded for a half eaten bag of peanuts is not going to materialize.

 
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