Camp body. Give some competition to Stidham for the 3rd spot. Also if Cam doesn't seem to take Mac under his wing, Hoyer might be a better option as the 3rd QB. He knows the system and can work with Mac a lot in practice and mentor him. I think it's a good move... not a whole lot of upside having Stidham as your 3rd QB.
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Indefinite New England Patriots Thread (3 Viewers)
- Thread starter captain_amazing
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Anarchy99
Footballguy
I have heard so many possible permutations over the Hoyer signing that there are probably too many to go over. Various conspiracy theories involving lots of folks in the Patriots universe include:
- This could mean the end for Cam and they will run with the other three guys. Newton was a place holder until they got someone else, Jones is the someone else, and Cam will be gone by Opening Day.
- This could mean the end for Stidham. They don't need 4 QBs and why bring back Hoyer unless they were giving JS the boot.
- This could mean the end for Hoyer. They brought him in to teach Jones the playbook (because the other two don't know it). He will be a training camp mentor for Jones but will get cut by the regular season.
- Hoyer was added to balance out once the team breaks off into split squad practices. This way they can scrimmage two teams at a time on two fields at a time. Nothing more, nothing less.
IMO, what Stidham wants is basically immaterial. I doubt they could get much if anything in a trade. Not a big market for QBs with a 46 career passer rating, 8.3% INT rate, and 9.4% sack rate. He is so cheap to roster as a backup, that alone makes it worth holding on to him. It also makes more sense to keep Jones and Stidham than it does to keep Jones and Newton as the scheme fit would be better.
Anarchy99
Footballguy
All this could be a whole lot of nothing. They had 4 QB's in camp last year. Brian Lewerke (released this off season) was there along with Newton, Stidham, and Hoyer. It gives them more flexibility to work in different side drills should someone need one-on-one assistance.
I wouldn't rule out Hoyer turning into a coach at some point, whether it be for NE or another franchise.
Anarchy99
Footballguy
I am hearing more whispers about Hightower. Definitely not in the mainstream media yet. Apparently there are some folks in the building that think he may decide he’s not into it anymore. And some folks internally are talking amongst themselves how much they can count on him to play and how healthy he can stay. I would file this under deep rumors and speculation for now. But this could develop as the weeks and months go by.
I did see that one of the players was excited to play with DH and he was participating in Zoom meetings, but that’s different than suiting up in the dog days of August.
Like I said, nothing official, but it’s caught the eye of some people I follow on Twitter.
I did see that one of the players was excited to play with DH and he was participating in Zoom meetings, but that’s different than suiting up in the dog days of August.
Like I said, nothing official, but it’s caught the eye of some people I follow on Twitter.
Anarchy99
Footballguy
Every year I am amazed at how little reporters understand the salary cap rules, and this year is no different. Ryan Hannable wrote an article today discussing the NE salary cap situation. LINK
He explained the team needs to sign their draft class and that will take up $6M. Technically, it will take about $8.9M to sign their draft picks, but that’s not the point. Only players that are in the team’s Top 51 contracts will count against the tap . . . and only the difference in the contracts they are replacing. The only rookie that would apply to would be Mac Jones. Bottom line, NE really doesn’t have to use much cap space at all on their rookie draft class.
They also will net $750,000 in cap room when Chung officially retires in a couple of weeks. At that point they will lose $3.6M in dead cap money for next year.
I understand that a lot of this stuff is hard to follow. It seems like no one in the media understands how things work and many seem oblivious to it.
He explained the team needs to sign their draft class and that will take up $6M. Technically, it will take about $8.9M to sign their draft picks, but that’s not the point. Only players that are in the team’s Top 51 contracts will count against the tap . . . and only the difference in the contracts they are replacing. The only rookie that would apply to would be Mac Jones. Bottom line, NE really doesn’t have to use much cap space at all on their rookie draft class.
They also will net $750,000 in cap room when Chung officially retires in a couple of weeks. At that point they will lose $3.6M in dead cap money for next year.
I understand that a lot of this stuff is hard to follow. It seems like no one in the media understands how things work and many seem oblivious to it.
Kind of silly that this comes up as a fault of Belichick when the QB MacMahon admits violence against the then GM, Lombardi.
https://www.foxnews.com/sports/patriots-bill-belichick-is-a-lying-piece-of-s-t-super-bowl-champ-says
nittanylion
Footballguy
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rockaction
Footballguy
Think you mean Harris. Williams is currently clogging a roster spot in Chicago.A ploy to motivate Damien Williams?
Julio to Patriots talk... https://boston.cbslocal.com/2021/05/21/report-julio-jones-want-to-play-with-cam-newton/
Anarchy99
Footballguy
Looks like things are at a standstill with Gilmore. He apparently is open to a long-term, multi-year extension . . . for near the top of the market. No word on if he will refuse to play this season for his $7 million salary. Once again I will point out that he chose to have a lot of his contract paid out in bonuses and guarantees and went the opposite direction compared to the standard cheap-at-the-beginning-but-crazy-money-at-the-end contract that many players sign.
People have speculated a 4 year, $62 million extension with $36 million guaranteed would get things done . . . but that seems high and probably not a great investment for a guy that will be 31 around opening day.
People have speculated a 4 year, $62 million extension with $36 million guaranteed would get things done . . . but that seems high and probably not a great investment for a guy that will be 31 around opening day.
NE is interested him for sure to some unknown degree but I have a very hard time believing NE is at or near the top of Julio's wish list. For his fantasy sake I hope not but really don't think I'm clouded with my fantasy interests by saying I'm just not buying this report. If anything I felt the opposite was more likely to be true, and that is ATL would send him to a preferred destination and NE was not one of them.
I am not trying to come in here and speak ill of the Patriots. I just think a variety of factors were they are right now make it were I just don't see this as a preferred spot. Perhaps I'm wrong and his admiration for Cam/BB is that strong but I just don't think so. I think we'll find out soon.
You would think if true it is a desire to play for a Super Bowl ring and he thinks Belichick can get a team capable of getting back there. Not about stats. If you added Julio this team would be well stacked both sides of the ball with only the QB to be settled. I would think for sure at least this season his stats would suffer.menobrown said:
We’ll have to agree to disagree that NE is a viable SB contender, with or without Julio.
I phrased it as “he thinks” they could get to a Super Bowl. I think 10-7 is a reasonable guess since they have a much better roster as compared to last season according to analysts. If they exceed that I think most fans would be ecstatic. They main area of worry is QB. Are we going to get the same Cam as last season and a swap over to Mac Jones.
Agree on the QB issue and was going to add to my earlier comment that for me to be wrong I think it would take Cam turning back the clock or Mac emerging and quickly. Of those I got more confidence in the latter but not enough in either.
And I just think if Julio will think other teams offer him a better chance at a SB to point that's a negative for NE on the whole. For example if you look at teams that he's most linked I believe only the Raiders have worst odds right now to win the SB then NE. I just don't see that as a positive in his thought process, NE vs the other teams he could go giving him a chance to win a SB.
Anarchy99
Footballguy
I don’t think JJ really has much say in where he goes. There are only a handful of teams who can afford him. It’s not like he is a free agent.
As for NE getting involved, there’s been enough reported on them having an interest that I don’t think it will happen. NE usually makes trades from out of nowhere when there were no leaks.
You don't think they'll treat one of the most respected players in history of the franchise with a little respect? Similar to how Lions did Stafford? Personally I think his relationship with Blank is tight and what he's meant to the franchise that I do think they will work with him to send him to a preferred destination. Not so much pick his team, but somewhere he wants to go, again like with Stafford. And there are enough potential suitors with enough ability to create cap space that I don't think it's going to be difficult to find a match for Julio and Atlanta both. I know he can't be traded til after June 1 but I think the holdup right now is teams know Atlanta is up against the cap with really only Julio and Grady Jarret contracts to rework and they are won't meet Atlanta's asking price which I expect will drop when June 1 actually gets here.
Anarchy99
Footballguy
There are probably only 5 or 6 teams that can take on his contract. ATL might say he can pick from the teams that show an interest and can afford him and make a legit offer. But as far as him getting to pick from 31 other teams? No, I don’t think that’s how it is.
We've had this discussion a few times and we simply don't agree with how easy it is for teams to create cap space so I don't see it this way at all. I think it's more the reverse, only a small handful of teams could not fit in him if they wanted to trade for him.
Also meant to say I agree you on this, was what I was trying to say earlier. I don't think he picks THE team, he picks from a handful of teams that Atlanta can get comp from. My whole reason for being in this thread was just to say I'm dubious of that report that NE would be one of those teams.
Anarchy99
Footballguy
If ATL is looking to get more cap space this year, they could extend Jones and dramatically reduce his cap number for this year. And Jones can make it easy on them if he wants to stay a Falcon. IMO the best spot for Jones is ATL and the best move for the Falcons is to keep him.
Vinatieri is retiring. One of my favorites of all time. I was lucky to be at this game, the best game I’ve seen live. He became a legend that season. Congrats on wonderful career Vinatieri.
https://twitter.com/ezlazar/status/1397631934361186308?s=20
https://twitter.com/ezlazar/status/1397631934361186308?s=20
Not surprising since Johnson did well and has roster exemption. Lacrosse might be next one cut given they have five other tight ends on roster.
Anarchy99
Footballguy
As expected, Hoyer's contract is for the league veteran minimum ($1.075M) with $100K guaranteed. His cap number is $850K, which means he won't count against the cap because he's not in their Top 51 contracts (if my math is right).
As discussed previously, there are a lot of fringe guys on the roster (and now probably a few different names). I like to think they are trying to carve out enough cap space to acquire Julio Jones (and then get him to tweak his deal once he gets here). I am sure they have talked about it, but I am not so sure they will give ATL the best offer.
As discussed previously, there are a lot of fringe guys on the roster (and now probably a few different names). I like to think they are trying to carve out enough cap space to acquire Julio Jones (and then get him to tweak his deal once he gets here). I am sure they have talked about it, but I am not so sure they will give ATL the best offer.
Anarchy99
Footballguy
I mostly have heard similar comments, but the only thing I would point out is the comments from players were based off of direct questions from reporters. What are they supposed to say, the rookie is in way over his head? That there's a reason he fell out of the Top 10 and he was the 5th QB selected? Of course not. Also worth reminding people playing against no defenders in shorts on a nice day in drills is not all that close to real football. But yes, Jones was hitting guys in stride.
The bigger take away is that Cam is still . . . inconsistent? Inaccurate? Not a great passer? Pick your own wording or phrase there. Cam had throws on basic seam routes that weren't all that great. Curran pointed out that a bunch of guys had to make some unbelievable catches on Cam's throws . . . which isn't exactly what you want to see from your QB.
I still find it both odd and interesting that there are a couple of folks (Curran included) that say Stidham has the strongest arm on the roster by far and he believes he is way better than he showed in garbage time in real games last year. Curran also noted that he thought Mac was smaller in stature than he expected. That'll happen when you see someone standing next to Cam at 6'5", 250.
Seems like my prediction is coming true. I feel like the way Newton was throwing was to guard his shoulder. I have had a shoulder injury and can tell you it is difficult to throw a football. I have hard to change my throw style for throwing a football. I’m not a pro athlete by any means. But I can tell you as a one time guy that could easily throw from deep left field with either a baseball or a softball(which is harder) those days are well behind me. My guess is that Newton has a situation in his shoulder that doesn’t allow him to open up his arm for fear of what could happen.
ratbast
Footballguy
Boston
Footballguy
Burkhead to Texans:
https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2021/06/01/texans-sign-rex-burkhead/
Good player who is very reliable when he plays but it was time to move on as you just can't count on him to be on the field...if you are hoping Stevenson gets some looks this year this is a step in that direction.
https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2021/06/01/texans-sign-rex-burkhead/
Good player who is very reliable when he plays but it was time to move on as you just can't count on him to be on the field...if you are hoping Stevenson gets some looks this year this is a step in that direction.
Anarchy99
Footballguy
Burkhead was usually productivity when he got the ball . . . he averaged 46 yards on just 8.5 touches per game in his time in NE. As you mentioned, he was just banged up too many times to bring back again.Boston said:
As far as Stevenson goes, IMO, something doesn't add up. He averaged 9 yards a carry in junior college and had a season with 2100+ yards. Then he averaged 7.2 ypc at Oklahoma . . . but only averaged 8.7 carries per game. Obviously those are some crazy YPC numbers. The Sooners used him more his second year compared to his first. Then he got drafted in the 4th round, and some people thought that was a reach . . . there weren't a ton of folks suggesting he was a great NFL prospect. He caught 46 passes in 40 total college games, so to me he seems more in the mold of Harris and Michel than being a dual threat back.
I still think I would have preferred a more well rounded, all around back than Stevenson, as he seems to be just the latest in a long line of bigger one dimensional backs that have come and gone over the years.
Boston
Footballguy
While he didn't put up big receiving #'s almost all the scouting reports I have seen say he has good hands so hopefully he can be a little more diverse than many of the RBs they have had in the past (and present).
Anarchy99
Footballguy
With Cam dinged, that put the spotlight on Mac and Stidham, and Stidham was the one with more command of the offense in practice. LINK
LINK2
There are a few media types that feel Stidham has the biggest arm and could be the best option (at least for now). It will be interesting to monitor if Stidham really does look the best throughout camp if they would actually consider starting him.
LINK2
There are a few media types that feel Stidham has the biggest arm and could be the best option (at least for now). It will be interesting to monitor if Stidham really does look the best throughout camp if they would actually consider starting him.
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Boston
Footballguy
I would highly recommend reading Bedard's piece in the BSJ (it's a pay site so I can't link to it) if you want a much more in-depth report of yesterday's practice with regard to the QB's.
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Anarchy99
Footballguy
Boston
Footballguy
BB threw Jones into the fire yesterday...it was a practice designed to favor the D (no running plays, blitz packages)...Stidham knew what to expect so he was going to look better (Bedard said if he didn't he should have packed his bags)...for Jones it was designed to be a learning experience as it was his first experience with it.
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Anarchy99
Footballguy
There are folks in the media who felt Stidham was capable the last two training camps and in practice both years. Obviously that didn’t translate on the field when he came in in relief of Cam in garbage time last year. But there are people who tend to think Stidham could still be a viable starter somewhere.
Boston
Footballguy
I'm rooting for him...I am all in on Jones but if Stidham can take the leap we were told by many of these media types was going to happen last year but didn't it would mean they could cut bait with Cam before the season even starts.
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Anarchy99
Footballguy
That was the conclusion I came up with when they brought back Hoyer. But that was before the Stidham wanting to be traded to HOU storyline.
IMO, Can would be perfect to back up Lamar in BAL. But not sure Newton is ready to concede he is no longer starter material.
Uruk-Hai
Footballguy
I'm not seeing that from Baltimore's perspective. Newton's style of play is completely different than Jackson's. If Lamar Jackson gets hurt, the Ravens are sunk because they've tooled their entire offensive philosophy around him. They could win - at best - maybe 8 or 9 games with the backups they have now, who have been in the system for a couple of years. I don't think Newton would win them any more than that.
And if QB-needy NE (still seems weird typing that) doesn't want Cam Newton, why would Baltimore?