Indefinite New England Patriots Thread (12 Viewers)

[Boston]

Who could Patriots hire as GM to work with Jerod Mayo?

The Patriots are getting right to work in their search for a new general manager. Here are a few potential candidates who could be on their radar.

www.nbcsportsboston.com

 

[Anarchy99]

I can't say I feel the same. I agree with you that it seems like Kraft really believes this is the right thing to do and I hope he's right, but this looks like a disaster.

Hope is not a plan. As already described, until we know A LOT MORE of who the puzzle pieces are on the coaching staff and in the front office (and what their philosophy will be moving forward), it's pretty difficult to have much of an opinion right now.

Since nothing else has changed yet, all that's happened is they swapped out a guy with 38 years of experience as a head coach and a coordinator for a guy with no experience as either of those (but 8 years' experience as a player). BB won a lot (but not recently), so there are arguments either way on how good he's been as a coach lately.

IMO, the 5 biggest needs for the team once the season ended were QB, offensive coordinator, OL, WR, and GM. The order might be different on any given day, but I don't think BB the head coach was a primary issue. I mostly agree that Mayo could turn into a disaster and the team could easily take several steps back. They could have an extended run in the AFCE basement with the other three teams seemingly much better positioned to win in the next few years with a sizeable talent advantage (assuming the Jets can find even a league average QB . . . and if Rodgers stays healthy, they should have one).

Part of me feels that whatever they do in the next two years will be to position Mayo's successor to be able to succeed. NE could easily have Top 10 draft picks for three years straight . . . and if so, would they stick with Mayo? I'm not so sure. I think who they bring in at QB will have a bigger impact than who they hire as GM. If they miss on the 3rd overall pick (or with a big money free agent QB), that will likely sink Mayo before he even starts his coaching career.

 

[Anarchy99]

Forgot to mention that I have seen a couple of reports that the plan moving forward is to explore potential staff with NE ties first and the new GM will most likely be someone that left the organization that they will bringing back. IMO, that's the last thing they should do, but apparently, they prefer guys in their circle of trust.

 

[karl.Racki]

Such a weird hiring

 

[Boston]

Forgot to mention that I have seen a couple of reports that the plan moving forward is to explore potential staff with NE ties first and the new GM will most likely be someone that left the organization that they will bringing back. IMO, that's the last thing they should do, but apparently, they prefer guys in their circle of trust.

The funny part of this is fans forget that the BB hire was extremely unpopular at the time.

 

[Anarchy99]

Forgot to mention that I have seen a couple of reports that the plan moving forward is to explore potential staff with NE ties first and the new GM will most likely be someone that left the organization that they will bringing back. IMO, that's the last thing they should do, but apparently, they prefer guys in their circle of trust.

The funny part of this is fans forget that the BB hire was extremely unpopular at the time.

Not even remotely apples to apples. Bill had already been in the NFL for 25 years before the Pats named him head coach, including 5 years as a head coach (4 as de facto GM), 9 years as a defensive coordinator, and a year as assistant coach under Parcells in NE with 2 SB titles (NYG) and a SB loss (NE). I am not impugning Mayo and suggesting that he can't turn into a good coach, but his level of experience taking over as NE HC is miniscule compared to what BB had for experience when he started.

Taking a glass half full approach, NE would be 0-0 at this stage with or without Bill, and we can't assault Mayo for his results on the field when no games have been played. But where's the fun in that? Initial reaction to their schedule for next year . . . home losses to BUF, MIA, HOU, IND, LAR, SEA and home wins against NYJ and LAC. Road losses to BUF, MIA, NYJ, JAC, CIN, ARI, SFO, CHI with a road win at TEN. That would make them 3-14. That's my starting off point, subject to change if the team makes significant roster and personnel moves.

 

[Boston]

Forgot to mention that I have seen a couple of reports that the plan moving forward is to explore potential staff with NE ties first and the new GM will most likely be someone that left the organization that they will bringing back. IMO, that's the last thing they should do, but apparently, they prefer guys in their circle of trust.

The funny part of this is fans forget that the BB hire was extremely unpopular at the time.

Not even remotely apples to apples. Bill had already been in the NFL for 25 years before the Pats named him head coach, including 5 years as a head coach (4 as de facto GM), 9 years as a defensive coordinator, and a year as assistant coach under Parcells in NE with 2 SB titles (NYG) and a SB loss (NE). I am not impugning Mayo and suggesting that he can't turn into a good coach, but his level of experience taking over as NE HC is miniscule compared to what BB had for experience when he started.

Taking a glass half full approach, NE would be 0-0 at this stage with or without Bill, and we can't assault Mayo for his results on the field when no games have been played. But where's the fun in that? Initial reaction to their schedule for next year . . . home losses to BUF, MIA, HOU, IND, LAR, SEA and home wins against NYJ and LAC. Road losses to BUF, MIA, NYJ, JAC, CIN, ARI, SFO, CHI with a road win at TEN. That would make them 3-14. That's my starting off point, subject to change if the team makes significant roster and personnel moves.

Stop…you know that wasn’t my point…under no condition am I comparing Mayo to BB as a HC…that would be both foolish and unfair…the point was that the BB hire was panned at the time which it 100% was.

 

[Deamon]

Forgot to mention that I have seen a couple of reports that the plan moving forward is to explore potential staff with NE ties first and the new GM will most likely be someone that left the organization that they will bringing back. IMO, that's the last thing they should do, but apparently, they prefer guys in their circle of trust.

The funny part of this is fans forget that the BB hire was extremely unpopular at the time.

I think maybe Kraft is trying a little too hard to find his next 'diamond in the rough'. Those things don't come along often, I don't see this as a good hire.

 

[kyoun1e]

Feeling good about this hire but big picture I feel great about the Kraft ownership (not that I already didn't feel that way)...they could not have handled the BB situation better...they allowed him to do his thing and gave him just enough time to prove it was working and when it became very apparent it wasn't they let him go in the classiest manner possible but were also very open about it...the Kraft's identified Mayo a few years ago as someone they believed in (RK said he reminds him of BB in 96 and that his biggest mistake was not hiring BB after Tuna left), gave him a contract and have stay committed to it and did not do Mayo dirty when they easily could have when Vrabel suddenly became available...I will be honest...for a while I was on the hire an offensive HC wagon but the more I thought about it the more I want a leader and not a HC who's head is buried in a play sheet all game...I know that is working very well for some teams but Mayo appears to be a legit leader and I think that is beyond important following a legend...all that being said this is the second most important hire...GM is more important...this team needs a serious infusion of talent on the offensive side of the ball, has to nail the #3 pick and the rest of the draft, needs to make some hard decisions on players like Duggar, Uche, Jennings and Mike O and has a ton of cap space this offseason...regardless of who the HC is this team will only go as far as the new GM will take them the next couple of year...with the Mayo decision coming so quickly I gotta believe they already know who the GM is...the Krafts were very prepared for this (kudos to Tom Curran because he nailed it) and I am very comfortable with their vision.

I can't say I feel the same. I agree with you that it seems like Kraft really believes this is the right thing to do and I hope he's right, but this looks like a disaster.

Remember when the Jets hired Saleh because they thought he was the right guy? And he seems like a good coach. And they drafted Wilson. And it was terrible. Hiring an inexperienced head coach who has never been a coordinator is part of it but hiring a defensive coach is not a good way to develop a franchise quarterback.

Which means they'll need an experienced offensive coordinator. Are we looking for Bill O Brien to usher in a new quarterback? The hope I guess would be that he could develop Jayden Daniels into the next Deshaun Watson, and ignore what happened with Mac and Zappe?

If it's not BoB, I'm worried it will be McDaniels. He was a great coordinator for working with Brady because he didn't need to install the system, just work within it. When he has worked with other quarterbacks it hasn't gone well. And he's got to feel passed over for this job after pulling out on the colts job to stay here. That might make the Mayo McDaniels meetings uncomfortable.

Overall it feels like the Patriots lost a lot of coaching experience, didn't bring in anyone innovative, and expect that to improve the team somehow. It's possible but it doesn't seem likely.

I'm having visions of the future and it's us watching Belichick breaking Shula's record in 2026 for some other team and wishing he was here.

Feel pretty much the same.

Feel like they need to take the blinders off and reach outside the organization.

I'm okay with Mayo IF they bring in somebody with fresh ideas for an OC. That would NOT be O'brien or Josh McDaniels.

 

[Anarchy99]

The point was that the BB hire was panned at the time which it 100% was.

That was a long time ago, but I think fans were more angered by the loss of a first round pick than the fact they took on BB as head coach. I had to look up the transaction . . .

The Jets traded BB, the 149th pick in the 2001 draft, and the 234th pick in the 2002 draft. The 2001 pick was traded to the Lions for picks 180 (TE Arthur Love) and 216 (PK Owen Pochman).
and the 2002 pick was traded to the Redskins (used to move up from 32 to 21 to take TE Daniel Graham).

The Patriots traded the 16th pick in 2000 and the 101st and 206th picks in the 2001 draft. The Jets traded the first-round pick to SF to move up to take DE Shaun Ellis. The 101st pick was used on CB Jamie Henderson and the 206th pick was used on DT James Reed.

I only looked up the picks and the players involved to illustrate that a lot of trades look big on paper but don't really turn into much. Most times I would love trading picks for established players, as most of the time the picks don't usually pan out.

 

[Ministry of Pain]

Feeling good about this hire but big picture I feel great about the Kraft ownership (not that I already didn't feel that way)...they could not have handled the BB situation better...they allowed him to do his thing and gave him just enough time to prove it was working and when it became very apparent it wasn't they let him go in the classiest manner possible but were also very open about it...the Kraft's identified Mayo a few years ago as someone they believed in (RK said he reminds him of BB in 96 and that his biggest mistake was not hiring BB after Tuna left), gave him a contract and have stay committed to it and did not do Mayo dirty when they easily could have when Vrabel suddenly became available...I will be honest...for a while I was on the hire an offensive HC wagon but the more I thought about it the more I want a leader and not a HC who's head is buried in a play sheet all game...I know that is working very well for some teams but Mayo appears to be a legit leader and I think that is beyond important following a legend...all that being said this is the second most important hire...GM is more important...this team needs a serious infusion of talent on the offensive side of the ball, has to nail the #3 pick and the rest of the draft, needs to make some hard decisions on players like Duggar, Uche, Jennings and Mike O and has a ton of cap space this offseason...regardless of who the HC is this team will only go as far as the new GM will take them the next couple of year...with the Mayo decision coming so quickly I gotta believe they already know who the GM is...the Krafts were very prepared for this (kudos to Tom Curran because he nailed it) and I am very comfortable with their vision.

I can't say I feel the same. I agree with you that it seems like Kraft really believes this is the right thing to do and I hope he's right, but this looks like a disaster.

Remember when the Jets hired Saleh because they thought he was the right guy? And he seems like a good coach. And they drafted Wilson. And it was terrible. Hiring an inexperienced head coach who has never been a coordinator is part of it but hiring a defensive coach is not a good way to develop a franchise quarterback.

Which means they'll need an experienced offensive coordinator. Are we looking for Bill O Brien to usher in a new quarterback? The hope I guess would be that he could develop Jayden Daniels into the next Deshaun Watson, and ignore what happened with Mac and Zappe?

If it's not BoB, I'm worried it will be McDaniels. He was a great coordinator for working with Brady because he didn't need to install the system, just work within it. When he has worked with other quarterbacks it hasn't gone well. And he's got to feel passed over for this job after pulling out on the colts job to stay here. That might make the Mayo McDaniels meetings uncomfortable.

Overall it feels like the Patriots lost a lot of coaching experience, didn't bring in anyone innovative, and expect that to improve the team somehow. It's possible but it doesn't seem likely.

I'm having visions of the future and it's us watching Belichick breaking Shula's record in 2026 for some other team and wishing he was here.

I like the Mayo hire for a couple reasons...

#1-Big shoes to fill so why not let someone nobody expects much of to have a chance and turn things around?
#2-They know Mayo the player and the coach, they like what he brings to the organization and gives them a certain comfortability as they transition away from Bill Belichick
I think they are wise to not go and hire someone with 10-15 years head coaching experience, let someone start fresh and build the team up but this person already has a great relationship with the front office and owner, it was an easy hire for the Patriots right now.

I think Mayo will be viewed positively, has a chance to follow in the same lane as Demeco Ryans has for Texas in his 1st season.
I could be wrong but the optics on the surface look pretty good IMHO.

 

[Boston]

The point was that the BB hire was panned at the time which it 100% was.

That was a long time ago, but I think fans were more angered by the loss of a first round pick than the fact they took on BB as head coach. I had to look up the transaction . . .

The Jets traded BB, the 149th pick in the 2001 draft, and the 234th pick in the 2002 draft. The 2001 pick was traded to the Lions for picks 180 (TE Arthur Love) and 216 (PK Owen Pochman).
and the 2002 pick was traded to the Redskins (used to move up from 32 to 21 to take TE Daniel Graham).

The Patriots traded the 16th pick in 2000 and the 101st and 206th picks in the 2001 draft. The Jets traded the first-round pick to SF to move up to take DE Shaun Ellis. The 101st pick was used on CB Jamie Henderson and the 206th pick was used on DT James Reed.

I only looked up the picks and the players involved to illustrate that a lot of trades look big on paper but don't really turn into much. Most times I would love trading picks for established players, as most of the time the picks don't usually pan out.

They were not happy with the hire and furious about the picks

 

[Pip's Invitation]

Forgot to mention that I have seen a couple of reports that the plan moving forward is to explore potential staff with NE ties first and the new GM will most likely be someone that left the organization that they will bringing back. IMO, that's the last thing they should do, but apparently, they prefer guys in their circle of trust.

The funny part of this is fans forget that the BB hire was extremely unpopular at the time.

Not even remotely apples to apples. Bill had already been in the NFL for 25 years before the Pats named him head coach, including 5 years as a head coach (4 as de facto GM), 9 years as a defensive coordinator, and a year as assistant coach under Parcells in NE with 2 SB titles (NYG) and a SB loss (NE). I am not impugning Mayo and suggesting that he can't turn into a good coach, but his level of experience taking over as NE HC is miniscule compared to what BB had for experience when he started.

Taking a glass half full approach, NE would be 0-0 at this stage with or without Bill, and we can't assault Mayo for his results on the field when no games have been played. But where's the fun in that? Initial reaction to their schedule for next year . . . home losses to BUF, MIA, HOU, IND, LAR, SEA and home wins against NYJ and LAC. Road losses to BUF, MIA, NYJ, JAC, CIN, ARI, SFO, CHI with a road win at TEN. That would make them 3-14. That's my starting off point, subject to change if the team makes significant roster and personnel moves.

The Chargers losing to a 3-14 team seems pretty on-brand, regardless of who their next coach is.

 

[Anarchy99]

Mayo apparently had a time to hire provision of 24 or 48 hours in his contract, where NE either had to hire him or buy him out once the job opened up.

 

[greenmountaingoat]

I wonder if they’d known Vrabel would be available they’d have gone there. Obviously a lot of people in the building knew about Mayo and Krafts held an obligation to someone a lot of people believed in.

 

[greenmountaingoat]

Makes you wonder if he had HC interviews lined up last year and the loyalty clause was the incentive to stay

 

[greenmountaingoat]

On the plus side, BB broadly gets a lot of the credit for the D being good. Maybe Mayo has actually been instrumental in this. And they are actually pretty close to having a very competitive defense. Every team has injuries. But that side of the ball is pretty solid.

 

[greenmountaingoat]

So keeping continuity on the side of the ball that’s actually not broken would be a smart thing to do.

The offense on the other hand is so bad that an absolutely average set of offensive decision makers would be a massive improvement. Waldman and Harmon run circles and them as WR talent evaluators

 

[greenmountaingoat]

Amazing point @Anarchy99 wrt the GM hire. You can’t tell me that the Krafts haven’t noticed how bass akward the personnel decisions have been. I’m not sure we’re in a position to second guess. In other words, people who disagreed with Bill over the years and left. But they were actually correct with opinions.

 

[Uruk-Hai]

I mostly agree that Mayo could turn into a disaster and the team could easily take several steps back.

How is that possible? They earned the #3 pick in the draft because they are a bad team and the talent level is low. How many steps back can they take from there? Unless you're talking about some kind of scandal involving Mayo, they are already at the bottom. Nowhere to go but up, or stay where they are. BB ran that franchise into the ground the last 4-5 years.

 

[SeniorVBDStudent]

I mostly agree that Mayo could turn into a disaster and the team could easily take several steps back.

How is that possible? They earned the #3 pick in the draft because they are a bad team and the talent level is low. How many steps back can they take from there? Unless you're talking about some kind of scandal involving Mayo, they are already at the bottom. Nowhere to go but up, or stay where they are. BB ran that franchise into the ground the last 4-5 years.

The defense could absolutely take a step back.

 

[Lansdowne]

Makes you wonder if he had HC interviews lined up last year and the loyalty clause was the incentive to stay

Mayo was interviewed by the Broncos and Raiders for their HC openings and the Panthers tried as well but Mayo turned them down and signed an extension to stay with the Pats. Had they known a year ago that Vrabel would be available then I’m not completely sure they would commit to Mayo as the successor, but the organization feels good enough about Mayo to stick to their plan and I’m cool with that.

 

[Uruk-Hai]

I mostly agree that Mayo could turn into a disaster and the team could easily take several steps back.

How is that possible? They earned the #3 pick in the draft because they are a bad team and the talent level is low. How many steps back can they take from there? Unless you're talking about some kind of scandal involving Mayo, they are already at the bottom. Nowhere to go but up, or stay where they are. BB ran that franchise into the ground the last 4-5 years.

The defense could absolutely take a step back.

They won 4 games. Only one team won less games than NE in 2023. If the defense gets worse, they win - what - two? three? There aren't many steps to go back from here.

 

[Anarchy99]

I mostly agree that Mayo could turn into a disaster and the team could easily take several steps back.

How is that possible? They earned the #3 pick in the draft because they are a bad team and the talent level is low. How many steps back can they take from there? Unless you're talking about some kind of scandal involving Mayo, they are already at the bottom. Nowhere to go but up, or stay where they are. BB ran that franchise into the ground the last 4-5 years.

The defense could absolutely take a step back.

They won 4 games. Only one team won less games than NE in 2023. If the defense gets worse, they win - what - two? three? There aren't many steps to go back from here.

They played 12 one score games. They weren’t very good but they were competitive. They could start getting blown out every game.

 

[Boston]

I mostly agree that Mayo could turn into a disaster and the team could easily take several steps back.

How is that possible? They earned the #3 pick in the draft because they are a bad team and the talent level is low. How many steps back can they take from there? Unless you're talking about some kind of scandal involving Mayo, they are already at the bottom. Nowhere to go but up, or stay where they are. BB ran that franchise into the ground the last 4-5 years.

The defense could absolutely take a step back.

They won 4 games. Only one team won less games than NE in 2023. If the defense gets worse, they win - what - two? three? There aren't many steps to go back from here.

It is all about the offense (they need a talent upgrade at every position somehow) which is currently a complete and utter train wreck...for whatever reason he had, BB totally neglected it...first foolishly hiring Patricia as OC in 2022 then putting a roster together on that side of the ball that was built to fail miserably as well as doing everything possible to not develop a young QB correctly...what was maddening about it going into 2023 was it was beyond obvious to see it was going to be a terrible unit...how it ended with BB is why the Kraft's are going away from the one-man power organization to a checks and balances organization with a lot more voices that will be heard...I am good with the Mayo hire but it is just a piece of the puzzle with BB gone...we need to see who the GM is as well as what the staff looks like (both the front office and coaching...with huge importance on the GM and OC for obvious reasons)...overall I am less concerned with the record in 2024 then I am with seeing the roster taking a big step forward with figuring out the QB position being at the top of the list...if they are a competitive 5 to 7 win team that had a very good draft and free agency and a foundation for the future is starting to be laid where you can see a pathway to being a legit contender I will be very pleased...BB did not leave this team in good shape and there is a lot of work that needs to be done both on and off the field.

 

[Anarchy99]

Phil Perry is reporting NE will not be bringing in a GM. Matt Groh and Eliot Wolf expected to handle personnel moves.

Like I mentioned several times already, if their plan is to move off of BB and leave everything / everyone else the same, that likely just makes things worse and the fans may revolt.

 

[kyoun1e]

Phil Perry is reporting NE will not be bringing in a GM. Matt Groh and Eliot Wolf expected to handle personnel moves.

Like I mentioned several times already, if their plan is to move off of BB and leave everything / everyone else the same, that likely just makes things worse and the fans may revolt.

Absolutely terrible.

Why not look around?

Only reason I can think of for not doing that is that Groh and Wolf actually wanted to draft other players, but was overruled by Bill every time.

If that's not the case, this is a serious blown opportunity.

 

[fruity pebbles]

Seems like they’re looking for a Texans type turn around which I can understand. If the GM news is legit, I take that back and just strikes me as lazy hires all around.

 

[kyoun1e]

Phil Perry is reporting NE will not be bringing in a GM. Matt Groh and Eliot Wolf expected to handle personnel moves.

Like I mentioned several times already, if their plan is to move off of BB and leave everything / everyone else the same, that likely just makes things worse and the fans may revolt.

MIke Giardi reporting something similar although he says "they are in no hurry to hire a GM and may wait until after the draft" and "don't discount Groh and Wolf."

 

[kyoun1e]

And now there's talk Josh McDaniels could come back.

And the hits just keep on comin.

 

[Boston]

And now there's talk Josh McDaniels could come back.

And the hits just keep on comin.

If all this is true the Kraft's are falling into the same trap as BB in that they only want to be surrounded by people they know and are comfortable with...that is not what this franchise needs right now...if this is how it all plays out they are going to deflate a fan base that was re-energized by BB moving on (and it was 100% time to move on)...it also puts them in a position where if there are not immediate results the fanbase will be very unforgiving real quickly...as much as McDaniel's leaves me feeling blah (I would rather have him then O'Brien...not that that means much) I understand that far more than I do these Wolf and Groh rumors...I do believe Curran was dead-on with his reporting which means they have had plenty of time to come up with a front office plan and if this is it, it is beyond underwhelming...it is disappointing because there has been nothing positive going on in that area of the organization for a long time and I don't know how you can reward anyone involved in it no matter how much BB had the final say.

 

[fasteddie_21]

Local sports radio should be entertaining for us non-Pats fans!

 

[Lansdowne]

And now there's talk Josh McDaniels could come back.

And the hits just keep on comin.

Robert Kraft at his age doesn’t want to “truly” start over, and seems to be hoping that removing Bill Belichick equates to removing what ails them, but it’s so much more than that. This franchise needed a fresh start more than anything else and this just feels like a downgraded version of the same regime. I’m going to be pissed if they run it back with Mac Jones and bring back Josh McDaniels thinking he’s going to fix everything.

 

[Anarchy99]

There is a report from Jeff Howe that BB wasn't totally onboard drafting Mac and preferred taking Davis Mills later in the draft. But with the more democratic draft process in recent drafts, the rest of the draft room all wanted Jones. It doesn't sound like Bill was vehemently opposed to Mac, only that he liked Mills a little better (who would not have required the 15th pick to get him).

 

[Boston]

There is a report from Jeff Howe that BB wasn't totally onboard drafting Mac and preferred taking Davis Mills later in the draft. But with the more democratic draft process in recent drafts, the rest of the draft room all wanted Jones. It doesn't sound like Bill was vehemently opposed to Mac, only that he liked Mills a little better (who would not have required the 15th pick to get him).

Everything involving the QB position post-Brady has been bad…Mac showed something his rookie year but that seems like a decade ago…thinking Mills was the answer is not a good look at all…I am really holding out hope that these Groh/Wolf rumors are not true…that is such an underwhelming plan for such an important time for the franchise…my biggest fear is this is the beginning of Jonathan Kraft looking to put his stamp on the organization and that is taking precedent over doing what is right.

 

[Anarchy99]

There is a report from Jeff Howe that BB wasn't totally onboard drafting Mac and preferred taking Davis Mills later in the draft. But with the more democratic draft process in recent drafts, the rest of the draft room all wanted Jones. It doesn't sound like Bill was vehemently opposed to Mac, only that he liked Mills a little better (who would not have required the 15th pick to get him).

Everything involving the QB position post-Brady has been bad…Mac showed something his rookie year but that seems like a decade ago…thinking Mills was the answer is not a good look at all…I am really holding out hope that these Groh/Wolf rumors are not true…that is such an underwhelming plan for such an important time for the franchise…my biggest fear is this is the beginning of Jonathan Kraft looking to put his stamp on the organization and that is taking precedent over doing what is right.

The QB class of 2021 has proven to be pretty underwhelming to far. I know passer rating is just one metric (and others likely just as important), but that class hasn't performed that great in terms of passing efficiency . . .

Career passer rating to date for guys with 100+ career attempts:

Jones 85.8
Lawrence 85.0
Lance 84.5
Mills 83.0
Fields 82.3
Ehringer 76.1
Wilson 73.2

Given that 4 guys went before Jones, not sure the QB options were all that great. And given that Jones tops that list, at least for now, it appears that draft class hasn't produced very much so far. Lawrence could still develop, but not sure anyone else will.

Not sure the Pats could have come away with a decent QB out of that draft . . . no matter who was involved in the assessment and selection process.

 

[Boston]

Report: Steve, Brian Belichick have been offered opportunity to return to Patriots for 2024

Bill Belichick has parted ways with the Patriots but his two sons on the club's defensive staff may be sticking around.

www.nbcsports.com

 

[Boston]

There is a report from Jeff Howe that BB wasn't totally onboard drafting Mac and preferred taking Davis Mills later in the draft. But with the more democratic draft process in recent drafts, the rest of the draft room all wanted Jones. It doesn't sound like Bill was vehemently opposed to Mac, only that he liked Mills a little better (who would not have required the 15th pick to get him).

Everything involving the QB position post-Brady has been bad…Mac showed something his rookie year but that seems like a decade ago…thinking Mills was the answer is not a good look at all…I am really holding out hope that these Groh/Wolf rumors are not true…that is such an underwhelming plan for such an important time for the franchise…my biggest fear is this is the beginning of Jonathan Kraft looking to put his stamp on the organization and that is taking precedent over doing what is right.

The QB class of 2021 has proven to be pretty underwhelming to far. I know passer rating is just one metric (and others likely just as important), but that class hasn't performed that great in terms of passing efficiency . . .

Career passer rating to date for guys with 100+ career attempts:

Jones 85.8
Lawrence 85.0
Lance 84.5
Mills 83.0
Fields 82.3
Ehringer 76.1
Wilson 73.2

Given that 4 guys went before Jones, not sure the QB options were all that great. And given that Jones tops that list, at least for now, it appears that draft class hasn't produced very much so far. Lawrence could still develop, but not sure anyone else will.

Not sure the Pats could have come away with a decent QB out of that draft . . . no matter who was involved in the assessment and selection process.

Agreed...but that is also one offseason...we are now going into the fifth offseason post-Brady.

 

[Anarchy99]

Agreed...but that is also one offseason...we are now going into the fifth offseason post-Brady.

They admittedly did not have much of a plan post Brady (which is clearly on BB).The Cam experiment didn't work, and they gave Mac 3 years and that didn't work either. Most teams don't spend a first on a QB and keep burning high draft picks on other QB (or sign top free agents at the same time). I agree the post Brady plan has been an abject failure, but they swung and missed on a washed-up free agent (which should have been predicable) and didn't hit on their first-round draft pick. Now the Pats know what plenty of other teams have had to go through in finding a capable QB.

I also agree NE needed to be more proactive, but consider:

In 2019, Murray, Jones, and Haskins were already off the board when they picked (and they ended up taking Stidham).
In 2020, Burrow, Tua, Herbert, and Lover were already off the board when they picked.
In 2021, Lawrence, Wilson, Lance, and Fields were already off the board when they picked.
In 2022, Pickett was already off the board when they picked (and they ended up taking Zappe).
In 2023, Young, Stroud, and Richardson were already off the board when they picked.

I'm not giving them a pass for not having done more to find a capable QB, but in those 5 years, here were the other guys drafted:

2019: Drew Lock, Will Grier, Ryan Finley, Easton Stick, Clayton Thorson, Garnder Minshew, Trace McSorley
2020: Jalen Hurts, Jacob Eason, James Morgan, Jake Fromm, Jake Luton, Cole McDonald, Ben DiNucci, Tommy Stevens, Nate Stanley
2021: Kyle Trask, Kellen Mond, Davis Mills, Ian Book, Sam Ehlinger
2022: Desmond Ridder, Malik Willis, Matt Corral, Sam Howell, Chris Oladokun, Skylar Thompson, Brock Purdy
2023: Will Levis, Hendon Hooker, Jake Haener, Stetson Bennett, Aidan O'Connell, Clayton Tune, Dorian Thompson-Robinson, Sean Clifford, Jaren Hall, Tanner McKee, Max Duggan

In 5 drafts, NE appears to have missed on Jones, Zappe, and Stidham. How many more QBs should they have drafted? The guys that were available to them that turned into regular starters were Hurts, Purdy, and Howell.

(To be clear, I am not giving them a pass for their churn at OC and the lack of development of the OL and skill position players. Those are different issues.)

Clearly, they have to keep searching for a QB . . . but how they find one is open for debate.

 

[Boston]

Agreed...but that is also one offseason...we are now going into the fifth offseason post-Brady.

They admittedly did not have much of a plan post Brady (which is clearly on BB).The Cam experiment didn't work, and they gave Mac 3 years and that didn't work either. Most teams don't spend a first on a QB and keep burning high draft picks on other QB (or sign top free agents at the same time). I agree the post Brady plan has been an abject failure, but they swung and missed on a washed-up free agent (which should have been predicable) and didn't hit on their first-round draft pick. Now the Pats know what plenty of other teams have had to go through in finding a capable QB.

I also agree NE needed to be more proactive, but consider:

In 2019, Murray, Jones, and Haskins were already off the board when they picked (and they ended up taking Stidham).
In 2020, Burrow, Tua, Herbert, and Lover were already off the board when they picked.
In 2021, Lawrence, Wilson, Lance, and Fields were already off the board when they picked.
In 2022, Pickett was already off the board when they picked (and they ended up taking Zappe).
In 2023, Young, Stroud, and Richardson were already off the board when they picked.

I'm not giving them a pass for not having done more to find a capable QB, but in those 5 years, here were the other guys drafted:

2019: Drew Lock, Will Grier, Ryan Finley, Easton Stick, Clayton Thorson, Garnder Minshew, Trace McSorley
2020: Jalen Hurts, Jacob Eason, James Morgan, Jake Fromm, Jake Luton, Cole McDonald, Ben DiNucci, Tommy Stevens, Nate Stanley
2021: Kyle Trask, Kellen Mond, Davis Mills, Ian Book, Sam Ehlinger
2022: Desmond Ridder, Malik Willis, Matt Corral, Sam Howell, Chris Oladokun, Skylar Thompson, Brock Purdy
2023: Will Levis, Hendon Hooker, Jake Haener, Stetson Bennett, Aidan O'Connell, Clayton Tune, Dorian Thompson-Robinson, Sean Clifford, Jaren Hall, Tanner McKee, Max Duggan

In 5 drafts, NE appears to have missed on Jones, Zappe, and Stidham. How many more QBs should they have drafted? The guys that were available to them that turned into regular starters were Hurts, Purdy, and Howell.

(To be clear, I am not giving them a pass for their churn at OC and the lack of development of the OL and skill position players. Those are different issues.)

Clearly, they have to keep searching for a QB . . . but how they find one is open for debate.

IMO they have only taken one legit swing and that was Mac and it appears they weren't all in on that one...he had his limitations but looked like he could be a legit starting NFL QB after his rookie year but as soon as McDaniels left everything went south quickly and I blame both the team and Mac for that...if the reports are true that BB was pushing hard to move on from #12 it was irresponsible to not have a succession plan which they absolutely did not have as they signed a pretty washed-up Cam late to compete with Stidham who was definitely not seen as anything too special...from all accounts BB was in no rush to draft Mac (who they sat back on and did not aggressively go after in the draft) and roll with Cam and or someone like Davis Mills in year 2 which is another head-scratcher...after that we know what happened and it is not pretty...besides those QBs they drafted Zappe in the 4th round and I don't think that was seen as anything that was going to make a difference...so, while I agree that it is very difficult to find a franchise QB (especially without a high pick) I don't think the Pats under BB really over-extended themselves trying to do it...hopefully that all changes with this #3 pick because if they don't want to draft this high again they need to figure out that position.

 

[elguapo07]

Agreed...but that is also one offseason...we are now going into the fifth offseason post-Brady.

They admittedly did not have much of a plan post Brady (which is clearly on BB).The Cam experiment didn't work, and they gave Mac 3 years and that didn't work either. Most teams don't spend a first on a QB and keep burning high draft picks on other QB (or sign top free agents at the same time). I agree the post Brady plan has been an abject failure, but they swung and missed on a washed-up free agent (which should have been predicable) and didn't hit on their first-round draft pick. Now the Pats know what plenty of other teams have had to go through in finding a capable QB.

I also agree NE needed to be more proactive, but consider:

In 2019, Murray, Jones, and Haskins were already off the board when they picked (and they ended up taking Stidham).
In 2020, Burrow, Tua, Herbert, and Lover were already off the board when they picked.
In 2021, Lawrence, Wilson, Lance, and Fields were already off the board when they picked.
In 2022, Pickett was already off the board when they picked (and they ended up taking Zappe).
In 2023, Young, Stroud, and Richardson were already off the board when they picked.

I'm not giving them a pass for not having done more to find a capable QB, but in those 5 years, here were the other guys drafted:

2019: Drew Lock, Will Grier, Ryan Finley, Easton Stick, Clayton Thorson, Garnder Minshew, Trace McSorley
2020: Jalen Hurts, Jacob Eason, James Morgan, Jake Fromm, Jake Luton, Cole McDonald, Ben DiNucci, Tommy Stevens, Nate Stanley
2021: Kyle Trask, Kellen Mond, Davis Mills, Ian Book, Sam Ehlinger
2022: Desmond Ridder, Malik Willis, Matt Corral, Sam Howell, Chris Oladokun, Skylar Thompson, Brock Purdy
2023: Will Levis, Hendon Hooker, Jake Haener, Stetson Bennett, Aidan O'Connell, Clayton Tune, Dorian Thompson-Robinson, Sean Clifford, Jaren Hall, Tanner McKee, Max Duggan

In 5 drafts, NE appears to have missed on Jones, Zappe, and Stidham. How many more QBs should they have drafted? The guys that were available to them that turned into regular starters were Hurts, Purdy, and Howell.

(To be clear, I am not giving them a pass for their churn at OC and the lack of development of the OL and skill position players. Those are different issues.)

Clearly, they have to keep searching for a QB . . . but how they find one is open for debate.

Was trading up to go get a QB ever a consideration? If not, why not?

 

[Uruk-Hai]

Agreed...but that is also one offseason...we are now going into the fifth offseason post-Brady.

They admittedly did not have much of a plan post Brady (which is clearly on BB).The Cam experiment didn't work, and they gave Mac 3 years and that didn't work either. Most teams don't spend a first on a QB and keep burning high draft picks on other QB (or sign top free agents at the same time). I agree the post Brady plan has been an abject failure, but they swung and missed on a washed-up free agent (which should have been predicable) and didn't hit on their first-round draft pick. Now the Pats know what plenty of other teams have had to go through in finding a capable QB.

I also agree NE needed to be more proactive, but consider:

In 2019, Murray, Jones, and Haskins were already off the board when they picked (and they ended up taking Stidham).
In 2020, Burrow, Tua, Herbert, and Lover were already off the board when they picked.
In 2021, Lawrence, Wilson, Lance, and Fields were already off the board when they picked.
In 2022, Pickett was already off the board when they picked (and they ended up taking Zappe).
In 2023, Young, Stroud, and Richardson were already off the board when they picked.

I'm not giving them a pass for not having done more to find a capable QB, but in those 5 years, here were the other guys drafted:

2019: Drew Lock, Will Grier, Ryan Finley, Easton Stick, Clayton Thorson, Garnder Minshew, Trace McSorley
2020: Jalen Hurts, Jacob Eason, James Morgan, Jake Fromm, Jake Luton, Cole McDonald, Ben DiNucci, Tommy Stevens, Nate Stanley
2021: Kyle Trask, Kellen Mond, Davis Mills, Ian Book, Sam Ehlinger
2022: Desmond Ridder, Malik Willis, Matt Corral, Sam Howell, Chris Oladokun, Skylar Thompson, Brock Purdy
2023: Will Levis, Hendon Hooker, Jake Haener, Stetson Bennett, Aidan O'Connell, Clayton Tune, Dorian Thompson-Robinson, Sean Clifford, Jaren Hall, Tanner McKee, Max Duggan

In 5 drafts, NE appears to have missed on Jones, Zappe, and Stidham. How many more QBs should they have drafted? The guys that were available to them that turned into regular starters were Hurts, Purdy, and Howell.

(To be clear, I am not giving them a pass for their churn at OC and the lack of development of the OL and skill position players. Those are different issues.)

Clearly, they have to keep searching for a QB . . . but how they find one is open for debate.

Was trading up to go get a QB ever a consideration? If not, why not?

Ego and a flawed process.

 

[Boston]

Great read from Curran...summarizes where we are right now:

Curran: Belichick's exit raises questions about Pats' power dynamics

A new era will begin in New England this year, but as Tom E. Curran writes, there’s still plenty left to untangle from Bill Belichick’s 24-year Patriots tenure.

www.nbcsportsboston.com

 

[SeniorVBDStudent]

They paid virtually nothing for Cam Newton. So much so that African American apologists like Richard Sherman said the league was racist because the only starting gig he could find.

The took a qb in jones that needed a solid run game, oline and receiving corps and by and large he had none of these things.

The GM who did this is gone, but I'm concerned because that same guy may be the greatest coach ever.

Matt Groh to be the GM? My confidence is not swelling.

 

[Boston]

This is good news:

Curran: Jonathan Kraft not seeking Pats football ops responsibility

Will Jonathan Kraft be more involved in the Patriots’ football operations after Bill Belichick’s departure? Tom E. Curran has a definitive answer.

www.nbcsportsboston.com

 

[Boston]

Perry: Patriots have to take a chance on a QB in NFL Draft

Phil Perry makes a case for the Patriots selecting a QB with the No. 3 pick in the 2024 NFL Draft and offers some NFL comps for LSU’s Jayden Daniels and UNC’s Drake Maye.

www.nbcsportsboston.com

 

[Boston]

Projecting Patriots' front office hirings and promotions in 2024

Taking a look at possible front office fits to support the post-dynasty era Patriots

patriotswire.usatoday.com

 

[kyoun1e]

Perry: Patriots have to take a chance on a QB in NFL Draft

Phil Perry makes a case for the Patriots selecting a QB with the No. 3 pick in the 2024 NFL Draft and offers some NFL comps for LSU’s Jayden Daniels and UNC’s Drake Maye.

www.nbcsportsboston.com

Agree with this.

Even if Daniels is rated as the 8th best player on the board at #3, take him.

NE has done well getting OLineman later in the draft.

Use the abundant cap space to find a #1 WR.

 

[Boston]

Thunder!

 

[Balco]

I wonder if they’d known Vrabel would be available they’d have gone there. Obviously a lot of people in the building knew about Mayo and Krafts held an obligation to someone a lot of people believed in.

I know Vrabel loves the organization but from a career standpoint why would he consider taking that job? Pats opening was least desirable of all the vacancies, in my opinion. The roster is devoid of talent and the offense is an embarrassment to modern football. And it’s not the coordinator that’s the problem. Zero speed anywhere.

This team is going to be bad for awhile.