Indefinite New England Patriots Thread (5 Viewers)

[Anarchy99]

If NE carries over their available cap space to next season, they would have $175 million to work with. Having money to spend isn't always a good thing. They did that before and started spending like drunken sailors and ended up paying top dollar for mediocre players. Opinions will vary on Maye, but I'm not sold one way or another whether he is or isn't a franchise QB. No one has any idea at this point. He could fall in the Young, Lance, Wilson, Jones, Trubisky category or in the Stroud, Allen, Mahomes bucket. Similarly, it's premature to anoint Mayo as the next whiz kid young coach. More weeks like the Jets game and fans will start wondering what the coaching staff is doing. Adding another legit WR or two has always sounded so easy, yet it has rarely happened and worked out well in NE. Unless they offer the truly elite guys an extra $15-20M over the length of a contract, they may continue to struggle to attract Tier I free agents. It's hard to tell if they were content to sign JAGs like Osborn or Okafor . . . or if they really did put on full court presses to bring in premium free agents and those players (and their agents) would not bother to pick up the phone.

The one thing I am curious about is at what point (if ever) do the players have to start taking accountability? We are quick to throw Bill under the bus for driving the team into the ground with limited talent, but what if the players should have been better and taken to coaching? The same applies to the Mayo staff . . . perhaps the players just aren't following directions or applying themselves? The team could end up being more disappointing than last year. Hopefully, Mayo, et al, can rally the troops and keep morale up. A long losing streak where they continue to look incompetent and get waxed could ruin the rest of the season, and their effort level could really fall off.

 

[Boston]

If NE carries over their available cap space to next season, they would have $175 million to work with. Having money to spend isn't always a good thing. They did that before and started spending like drunken sailors and ended up paying top dollar for mediocre players. Opinions will vary on Maye, but I'm not sold one way or another whether he is or isn't a franchise QB. No one has any idea at this point. He could fall in the Young, Lance, Wilson, Jones, Trubisky category or in the Stroud, Allen, Mahomes bucket. Similarly, it's premature to anoint Mayo as the next whiz kid young coach. More weeks like the Jets game and fans will start wondering what the coaching staff is doing. Adding another legit WR or two has always sounded so easy, yet it has rarely happened and worked out well in NE. Unless they offer the truly elite guys an extra $15-20M over the length of a contract, they may continue to struggle to attract Tier I free agents. It's hard to tell if they were content to sign JAGs like Osborn or Okafor . . . or if they really did put on full court presses to bring in premium free agents and those players (and their agents) would not bother to pick up the phone.

The one thing I am curious about is at what point (if ever) do the players have to start taking accountability? We are quick to throw Bill under the bus for driving the team into the ground with limited talent, but what if the players should have been better and taken to coaching? The same applies to the Mayo staff . . . perhaps the players just aren't following directions or applying themselves? The team could end up being more disappointing than last year. Hopefully, Mayo, et al, can rally the troops and keep morale up. A long losing streak where they continue to look incompetent and get waxed could ruin the rest of the season, and their effort level could really fall off.

Question...what players do you think aren't playing to the level they could be? IMO they just aren't talented and whether it's BB, Mayo or Vince Lombardi I don't think there's much you can do about it....if anything I actually see players like Stevenson, Henry, Gonzalez and White actually playing pretty well...this is going to be the awful season everyone knew it was going to be (the Cincy game and Seattle to a point gave a little hope but it looks like it was false hope) and the test for Mayo is not going to be just on the field but off the field and in the locker-room...if he can keep this team unified and playing hard with limited distractions that will be impressive because they have to get thru this season without it becoming a Rod Rust-level debacle...he is in a brutal spot for a first year HC.

 

[Anarchy99]

Question...what players do you think aren't playing to the level they could be? IMO they just aren't talented and whether it's BB, Mayo or Vince Lombardi I don't think there's much you can do about it....if anything I actually see players like Stevenson, Henry, Gonzalez and White actually playing pretty well...this is going to be the awful season everyone knew it was going to be (the Cincy game and Seattle to a point gave a little hope but it looks like it was false hope) and the test for Mayo is not going to be just on the field but off the field and in the locker-room...if he can keep this team unified and playing hard with limited distractions that will be impressive because they have to get thru this season without it becoming a Rod Rust-level debacle...he is in a brutal spot for a first year HC.

Onwenu and Andrews are not playing close to the levels they played in prior seasons. Despite the hype, the analytics show that Gonzalez has been a net negative this year so far. In two of their three outings, the secondary got carved up. Yesterday, the Jets executed pretty much whatever they wanted (running or passing). The OL as a whole has been bad and gotten worse. Is that coaching? Lack of ability? Motivation? Self-discipline? In the past, they picked linemen in the same draft spots as they have recently . . . but the recent picks and signings haven't worked out. I get Dante was as good as it gets, but they've had multiple seasons to find a competent OL coach (or OC for that matter). Are we collectively throwing Douglas, Polk, Baker, Boutte, Thornton overboard already? Are they JAGs? Is it the coaching? The play calling? Brissett? The OL? All we know is the fit hasn't been there yet.

I don't expect you or anyone else to have an answer (these are theoretical questions). Maybe it's everything . . . players not playing their best (or knowing what to do), a lack of chemistry, coaches not being on the same page, ownership that was so used to winning that they don't know how to course correct and get out of the doldrums, stocking the roster with the wrong guys, the pivot to life after Bill, etc. The fans got spoiled . . . winning isn't easy and takes a lot of work.

 

[Boston]

From Bedard's article in BSJ:

HELL NO WE'RE NOT PLAYING DRAKE MAYE ANYTIME SOON.

I mean, do people have eyes? Nowhere on god's green Earth should the Patriots remotely think about putting Maye anywhere near that offense. It's freaking carnage out there behind the group that can't block straight.

 

[rockaction]

I don't know. You guys beat Cinci and barely lost to Seattle.

Losing very handily to a very good team isn't a shame. The Jets looked bad the first Monday because they played what I think is the best team in pro football—the 49ers are the biggest, toughest, fastest, smartest guys around. They've had the misfortune of playing Mahomes twice, once with a great defense on Mahomes's side (I think KC was 1 or 2 in DVOA Defense last year). Yes, MN beat a banged-up 49ers team, but they're still class of the NFL, IMO. So the Jets' 32-19 loss where they had radically new assemblages of units and hadn't played a lick in the preseason isn't so bad.

What I'm trying to say by way of this 49er love is that the Jets are ****in' good. They might not make the playoffs due to their schedule, but last night sort of should have showed people how good they are. They got beat by an insanely physical 49ers squad across the country from their home, beat a very physical TN team on the road, and got a home game to beat up on a beat-up New England.

Brissett is a huge problem for the Pats. You won't win with that guy. Maye should be starting unless they think he'll get ruined.

And don't listen to the Boston media about football. They stink at it. Not that New York is any better. I mean, NY might be worse, so that's not homerism. But Boston is no Midwest or Southern city where there's a huge football culture and the beat writers are excellent. There is no football in the Northeast anymore for the most part. The residents of the Northeast are aging, there's no replacement kids, and the ones that are there are small and white in small New England towns. You generally don't find good football north of the Mason-Dixon line and east of College Station anymore, unless we're talking dirty Jersey.

 

[Boston]

I don't know. You guys beat Cinci and barely lost to Seattle.

Losing very handily to a very good team isn't a shame. The Jets looked bad the first Monday because they played what I think is the best team in pro football—the 49ers are the biggest, toughest, fastest, smartest guys around. They've had the misfortune of playing Mahomes twice, once with a great defense on Mahomes's side (I think KC was 1 or 2 in DVOA Defense last year). Yes, MN beat a banged-up 49ers team, but they're still class of the NFL, IMO. So the Jets' 32-19 loss where they had radically new assemblages of units and hadn't played a lick in the preseason isn't so bad.

What I'm trying to say by way of this 49er love is that the Jets are ****in' good. They might not make the playoffs due to their schedule, but last night sort of should have showed people how good they are. They got beat by an insanely physical 49ers squad across the country from their home, beat a very physical TN team on the road, and got a home game to beat up on a beat-up New England.

Brissett is a huge problem for the Pats. You won't win with that guy. Maye should be starting unless they think he'll get ruined.

And don't listen to the Boston media about football. They stink at it. Not that New York is any better. I mean, NY might be worse, so that's not homerism. But Boston is no Midwest or Southern city where there's a huge football culture and the beat writers are excellent. There is no football in the Northeast anymore for the most part. The residents of the Northeast are aging, there's no replacement kids, and the ones that are there are small and white in small New England towns. You generally don't find good football north of the Mason-Dixon line and east of College Station anymore, unless we're talking dirty Jersey.

I could not disagree more with your last paragraph...locally we have some of the best in the business...Tom Curran, Phil Perry, Mike Reiss, Mike Giardi, Greg Bedard, Andrew Callhan and Nancy Guregian (and Bert Breer can even be included even though he does national stuff he is a presence locally) are all top-notch and none from this crew can be considered a "homer."

 

[rockaction]

Eh, I stand corrected. You're talking print. I'm talking talk radio.

We're not speaking the same language here and what I typed was wrong. Curran and Reiss are good.

 

[Boston]

Eh, I stand corrected. You're talking print. I'm talking talk radio.

We're not speaking the same language here and what I typed was wrong. Curran and Reiss are good.

Totally different world when it comes to talk radio although outside of Zolak it is usually far more negative than positive, so the "homer" factor is minimal.

 

[rockaction]

Totally different world when it comes to talk radio.

Yeah, I keep letting the two bleed together and no city might have a starker difference between the talk guys and the print/serious media than Boston does. It's also been a long while (a decade) since I lived in the Northeast so I'm only connected to their media through NESN and other television conglomerates that don't really have the best media on. Now, I don't know what NESN does with football anymore, so don't quote me on that, either.

 

[Boston]

Totally different world when it comes to talk radio.

Yeah, I keep letting the two bleed together and no city might have a starker difference between the talk guys and the print/serious media than Boston does. It's also been a long while (a decade) since I lived in the Northeast so I'm only connected to their media through NESN and other television conglomerates that don't really have the best media on. Now, I don't know what NESN does with football anymore, so don't quote me on that, either.

Whether people like it or not right now Talk Radio in Boston goes thru the Felger and Mazz show which usually is very negative and excels at being a Monday morning quarterback (for all sports)...the funny part about this is everyone complains about the show, yet the ratings are thru the roof so there seems to be a disconnect between the complaining and the ratings...being a Sales Rep on the road locally I do listen to them but will turn them off the second it goes from analysis/talk to arrogance which is pretty often...Breer, Bedard, Giardi, Perry, Curran and Reiss will all be heard regularly on one show or another whether it's on the Sports Hub or EEI and all of them are great (and fair) and all have their own style and bring something a little different to the table...going back to print, from a pure x's and o's standpoint Bedard and Giardi do a great job over at BSJ (as do the guys who do the other sports on that site)...BSJ is a pay site (it's cheap) but it is well-worth the $ if you're a Boston sports fan and the content is updated daily...from a pure football IQ Scott Zolak is kind of a savant and the fact he played high-level college and in the NFL makes him different than the other media personalities...he understands the actual game of football as well as anyone...he can come across as whacky (which is why he is not for everyone) but I know for a fact that is no act...it is who he is...he was beloved as a teammate...he is around my age and I know a lot of people who know him or have crossed paths with him and every single one of them has nothing but positive things to say about him...as a side story my son was in a lax tourney about 5 years ago and they were playing a team from Long Island...I started talking to this big guy who's kid played for the Long Island team...real nice guy which can be unusual for a Long Island parent in the lax world...come to find out he actually played college ball for Maryland and I asked him if he played with Zo...without skipping a beat he lit up and said he was a freshman when Zo was a Senior and he was one of the best teammates he ever had...said Zo was the leader of the team, was liked/respected by everyone and he could not have been better to the freshmen (which is the #1 thing when it comes to team/program culture in college IMO)...that encounter really left an impression with me because he was so enthusiastic talking about him.

 

[Boston]

From Giardi:
Look, if it wasn't obvious before, the Pats are offensively challenged. It has felt like Van Pelt is following the same shadowy path Bill O'Brien had to walk down the year before. His play sheet isn't expanding; it's only shrinking because of an offensive line struggling not only from a physical standpoint but with their communication, leading to a number of missed assignments and far too many rushers cruising unabated to the quarterback.

 

[Bossman]

Most of us understand that the Felger and Mazz negativity is a schtick. It gets people to tune in and divides the homers from the Debbie Downers. People will tend to take one side or the other.
... and the more the teams lose, the better the schtick works. It wouldn't really work if the Patriots were still winning Superbowls.

 

[kyoun1e]

Most of us understand that the Felger and Mazz negativity is a schtick. It gets people to tune in and divides the homers from the Debbie Downers. People will tend to take one side or the other.
... and the more the teams lose, the better the schtick works. It wouldn't really work if the Patriots were still winning Superbowls.

Mazz is intolerable.

I love Felger. He often takes a contrarian take and also has a sixth sense on knowing what will stir up the fanbase. He cuts right to the chase and doesn't cater at all to anyone. He's fearless. I often agree with him on many takes.

I'd love to see Felger at the national level. He'd get under everyone's skin...and he wouldn't care.

 

[Anarchy99]

I am sure F + M have a similar fan base as Howard Stern did. Stern fans listened for 30 minutes at a time. People that hated him would average 2+ hours listening because that couldn’t wait to hear whatever else he would say that would infuriate them.

 

[Anarchy99]

Currently at a wedding reception in Atlanta. Even after 8 years of therapy, the tears from these folks are still real . . . and delicious. #28-3

 

[Anarchy99]

More poor game grades from PFF after the Jets fiasco. Only players over 70: Uche 82.8, White 79.9, Peppers 77.8, Onwenu 74.4, Hooper 72.8. Bottom 10 scores: Thornton 51.9, Godchaux 51.1, Jennings 51.0, McMillan 46.7, Andrews 44.5, Gonzalez 44.1, Stevenson 43.0, Robinson 42.9, Wallace 42.3, Johnson 38.7.

This brings me back to what I mentioned last week. There are some really good players getting really poor grades . . . guys that used to get really high marks. Why is that? Poor coaching? Lack of effort? Hidden injuries? Projected talent was higher than actual talent level? Thoughts on why very few Patriots players are getting good game scores or why they keep getting poor marks?

 

[kyoun1e]

More poor game grades from PFF after the Jets fiasco. Only players over 70: Uche 82.8, White 79.9, Peppers 77.8, Onwenu 74.4, Hooper 72.8. Bottom 10 scores: Thornton 51.9, Godchaux 51.1, Jennings 51.0, McMillan 46.7, Andrews 44.5, Gonzalez 44.1, Stevenson 43.0, Robinson 42.9, Wallace 42.3, Johnson 38.7.

This brings me back to what I mentioned last week. There are some really good players getting really poor grades . . . guys that used to get really high marks. Why is that? Poor coaching? Lack of effort? Hidden injuries? Projected talent was higher than actual talent level? Thoughts on why very few Patriots players are getting good game scores or why they keep getting poor marks?

They are not as good as we (nor management) thought.

 

[Anarchy99]

PFF has Christian Gonzalez as the 127th ranked CB in the league so far this year. LINK

Not sure why they view him as a major liability.

 

[Lansdowne]

PFF has Christian Gonzalez as the 127th ranked CB in the league so far this year. LINK

Not sure why they view him as a major liability.

PFF’s grading system is all over the place and why I don’t put much stock in their rankings.

 

[Bossman]

More poor game grades from PFF after the Jets fiasco. Only players over 70: Uche 82.8, White 79.9, Peppers 77.8, Onwenu 74.4, Hooper 72.8. Bottom 10 scores: Thornton 51.9, Godchaux 51.1, Jennings 51.0, McMillan 46.7, Andrews 44.5, Gonzalez 44.1, Stevenson 43.0, Robinson 42.9, Wallace 42.3, Johnson 38.7.

This brings me back to what I mentioned last week. There are some really good players getting really poor grades . . . guys that used to get really high marks. Why is that? Poor coaching? Lack of effort? Hidden injuries? Projected talent was higher than actual talent level? Thoughts on why very few Patriots players are getting good game scores or why they keep getting poor marks?

Some is poor coaching.
How many times did the defensive ends over-rush and not keep the QB in the pocket? ... allowing the QB to squirt out and scramble for chunks of yards / 1st downs.
Seems like they want the sack and glory that comes with it so none of them are willing to set the edge and hold it.
Forcing the QB to stay in the pocket isn't going to get you a bigger contract like the sack stats will. It's a sign that some are playing for themselves instead of doing what's best for the team.
Between that and a TON of missed tackles, the defense was as disappointing as the offense last week. Very unexpected.

 

[Anarchy99]

Curran was asked the other day when Maye would take over as starter. He said it’s more situationally based vs. a specific week or date. He felt once NE was eliminated from playoff contention or effectively eliminated . . . once they were 6 games below .500.

 

[Anarchy99]

Everyone knows the offense is ungood, but that's been masking that the defense hasn't been great either. NE is allowing 52 more yards per game than last year (most of that through the air). The Pats have been a net -115 yards per game so far this year. We all know last year was bad . . . when they were a net -25 yards per game. There's already talk of problems in the locker room. Evan Lazar commented that the players are teetering on a mutiny (the team has since taken down that episode of this podcast from their website). Oh, forgot to mention, center David Andrews and offensive tackle Caeden Wallace are going on injured reserve.

 

[kyoun1e]

Everyone knows the offense is ungood, but that's been masking that the defense hasn't been great either. NE is allowing 52 more yards per game than last year (most of that through the air). The Pats have been a net -115 yards per game so far this year. We all know last year was bad . . . when they were a net -25 yards per game. There's already talk of problems in the locker room. Evan Lazar commented that the players are teetering on a mutiny (the team has since taken down that episode of this podcast from their website). Oh, forgot to mention, center David Andrews and offensive tackle Caeden Wallace are going on injured reserve.

And now Dugger and Peppers are going to be out.

I'm actually surprised there are many "experts" out there picking NE to win tmrw. Everyone is saying that Miami is a mess, but still, that mess includes some talent like Hill, Waddle, Achane, and Mostert. With Huntley having another week under his belt, I bet McDaniels figures something out that at least meets middling.

And with Andrews out and other injuries on the O line, who is out there?

Have a bad feeling just when you think you've hit bottom...you haven't.

 

[Boston]

Patriots' Jabrill Peppers arrested for assault, cocaine possession

One of the Patriots' team captains will be arraigned in court today after his Saturday arrest.

www.nbcsports.com

Not good...Peppers is a Team Captain by the way...we are now going back to the future with the Pats as this type of stuff (along with the train wreck on the field) was not uncommon back in the day...the Mayo regime is gonna be tested to the fullest this year...he is Kraft's handpicked successor to BB so he may get some slack but things are heading south at a rapid rate...on the field there is no chance of being good but if off-the-field BS like this and/or there are locker-room issues boiling over this could be a one and done situation.

 

[kyoun1e]

Patriots' Jabrill Peppers arrested for assault, cocaine possession

One of the Patriots' team captains will be arraigned in court today after his Saturday arrest.

www.nbcsports.com

Not good...Peppers is a Team Captain by the way...we are now going back to the future with the Pats as this type of stuff (along with the train wreck on the field) was not uncommon back in the day...the Mayo regime is gonna be tested to the fullest this year...he is Kraft's handpicked successor to BB so he may get some slack but things are heading south at a rapid rate...on the field there is no chance of being good but if off-the-field BS like this and/or there are locker-room issues boiling over this could be a one and done situation.

Wow.

And the hits just keep onnnnnn comin'.

 

[kyoun1e]

Drumbeat now getting loud for Maye.

I say no.

At least let him land the week after next against a beatable JAX D...not the HOU D.

 

[Anarchy99]

Drumbeat now getting loud for Maye.

I say no.

At least let him land the week after next against a beatable JAX D...not the HOU D.

Part of the problem is, what happens if Maye is overwhelmed / terrible? Are they going to bench him in favor of Brissett? They can't put the toothpaste back in the tube. They will be inviting blitzes non-stop until Maye figures out what to do. Even if they try to run more, the OL isn't strong enough to keep the ball moving and sustain drives. Brissett has been pressured on 50% of drop backs. Sure, some of those are from him holding the ball too long, but many times he stood no chance. They run the risk of Maye being a turnover machine (like many other rookie QBs). And there is always the risk he gets hurt. I don't think it would be quite that dire, but I would guess for every great scramble that Brissett would have been sacked that Maye turns into a big first down, there could be just as many poor decisions to try to escape the pocket and get hit, putting the ball at risk through bad decisions passing or potentially fumbling.

If the season ended today, NE currently would hold the #1 pick in the draft. Obviously, there is a ton of football to be played, and their potential draft spot will go up and down as the season progresses. They rank 26th in odds to make the post season (15%) right now. Bottom line, they aren't winning this season anyway, what's the rush to get him in there and beaten like a mule?

 

[Anarchy99]

JuJu's numbers in KC really aren't helping the Patriots cause any. A lot of people thought he was washed, banged up, and lost a step or two when he left PIT. In his 2 stints with KC, he's had 7 games with 70+ yards (including 3 of 100+) to go along with 10 games of 5+ receptions. With NE, he had only 1 game of 70+ yards and 2 with 5+ catches. I get that NE doesn't have Mahomes or Reid, but the Chiefs figured out how to get JJSS involved (something NE could never figure out).

 

[Bossman]

Seeing what some of the other rookie QB's are doing is probably putting pressure on the team to start Maye.
But the switch to Maye tells me that the coaches are seeing plays that Brissett is missing. Defenses are selling out to stop the run / pressure the QB and Brissett hasn't been able to take advantage passing the ball.
WR's open downfield and when he's not being sacked he's checking it down to a RB ... or scrambling ... or throwing it away.
I've seen it a couple times watching the games and the WR's getting open are rightfully frustrated and show it.
I can't imagine the frustration of a WR that has to run from the huddle, 25 yards out to his position, then fight thru a jamb, sprint, make a move, get open, then stand there as your QB doesn't even look your way, then jog 25 yards back to the huddle to do it all over again. Play after play after play.
There was talk of "mutiny" in the locker room. I could see the WR's losing faith in the process after a few of games of this.
I could also see the defense losing faith in the process when giving up very few points and still losing.
After 5 games Mayo is already in danger of losing players that are no longer buying in.
Hopefully Maye can make defenses pay for playing 7 in the box and sending extra rushers on every play ... as a quality NFL QB should but might be asking a lot from a rookie.

 

[Bossman]

Sounds like Andrews career may be over.
The muscle tore off the bone the first time he injured his shoulder. Now the muscle tore. He's having surgery that "might" allow the torn muscle to grow back together.
Doesn't matter how good the defense is, how good the WR's are, or how good the QB is ....this team is completely crippled by the injuries and lack of talent on the O-line. They can not win because they can not score.
Here's hoping there are a couple of pro-bowl caliber O-linemen reaching free agency this offseason. NE should be ready to overpay to get all of them they can.

 

[Boston]

Sounds like Andrews career may be over.
The muscle tore off the bone the first time he injured his shoulder. Now the muscle tore. He's having surgery that "might" allow the torn muscle to grow back together.
Doesn't matter how good the defense is, how good the WR's are, or how good the QB is ....this team is completely crippled by the injuries and lack of talent on the O-line. They can not win because they can not score.
Here's hoping there are a couple of pro-bowl caliber O-linemen reaching free agency this offseason. NE should be ready to overpay to get all of them they can.

It was already a very bad O line with him…now it just gets worse…overall they were not a good team but with injuries already starting to mount up with Andrews, Bentley, Barmore, Wallace and now the Peppers situation (and Judon being traded) they really have a chance to be old school Patriot’s bad/dysfunctional…it sucks but there is a part of me that feels it is good for the youngsters who probably didn’t truly appreciate the 20 year run with Brady…welcome to the club…now you are officially a fan!

 

[Bossman]

Sounds like Andrews career may be over.
The muscle tore off the bone the first time he injured his shoulder. Now the muscle tore. He's having surgery that "might" allow the torn muscle to grow back together.
Doesn't matter how good the defense is, how good the WR's are, or how good the QB is ....this team is completely crippled by the injuries and lack of talent on the O-line. They can not win because they can not score.
Here's hoping there are a couple of pro-bowl caliber O-linemen reaching free agency this offseason. NE should be ready to overpay to get all of them they can.

It was already a very bad O line with him…now it just gets worse…overall they were not a good team but with injuries already starting to mount up with Andrews, Bentley, Barmore, Wallace and now the Peppers situation (and Judon being traded) they really have a chance to be old school Patriot’s bad/dysfunctional…it sucks but there is a part of me that feels it is good for the youngsters who probably didn’t truly appreciate the 20 year run with Brady…welcome to the club…now you are officially a fan!

This is looking like it might take a decade to turn around now with each year worse than the last.
Even if Maye is "the guy" ... he's useless with what they have around him.
Also, good luck getting quality FA's to sign here ... and good luck getting your quality players to STAY here.
Since not many are willing to waste their career playing for what has become a perennial loser.
Say goodbye to the few studs on defense that play out their contract ...and if I'm Drake Maye or Jalynn Polk, I can't WAIT for my rookie contract to be up so I can sign with another team.

 

[Boston]

Sounds like Andrews career may be over.
The muscle tore off the bone the first time he injured his shoulder. Now the muscle tore. He's having surgery that "might" allow the torn muscle to grow back together.
Doesn't matter how good the defense is, how good the WR's are, or how good the QB is ....this team is completely crippled by the injuries and lack of talent on the O-line. They can not win because they can not score.
Here's hoping there are a couple of pro-bowl caliber O-linemen reaching free agency this offseason. NE should be ready to overpay to get all of them they can.

It was already a very bad O line with him…now it just gets worse…overall they were not a good team but with injuries already starting to mount up with Andrews, Bentley, Barmore, Wallace and now the Peppers situation (and Judon being traded) they really have a chance to be old school Patriot’s bad/dysfunctional…it sucks but there is a part of me that feels it is good for the youngsters who probably didn’t truly appreciate the 20 year run with Brady…welcome to the club…now you are officially a fan!

This is looking like it might take a decade to turn around now with each year worse than the last.
Even if Maye is "the guy" ... he's useless with what they have around him.
Also, good luck getting quality FA's to sign here ... and good luck getting your quality players to STAY here.
Since not many are willing to waste their career playing for what has become a perennial loser.
Say goodbye to the few studs on defense that play out their contract ...and if I'm Drake Maye or Jalynn Polk, I can't WAIT for my rookie contract to be up so I can sign with another team.

Taking it a step further…is Jonathan Kraft up to the challenge of being the man…so much of a pro sports franchise being successful is quality ownership…Dad is not getting any younger and you have to believe Jonathan’s hands are all over the post-BB era so far.

 

[Anarchy99]

I think some people are giving Mayo too much credit. I don't think he has autonomy to make many decisions. I believe there are some decisions made by upper management where he is flat out told what to do. Secondary to that, I think there are some decisions that are put to a vote / involve group think and involve a collaborate majority rules. I don't believe at this point that he has the power to do whatever he wants.

I stand by what I said after Mayo was named head coach and they cobbled together a staff. These guys are placeholders until they can get the train back on the tracks and look like they are the path to being a legit NFL franchise again. Lots of media folks are suggesting the coaching staff has been terrible up until now. I know there's more to it than wins and losses, but they don't appear to be headed in any specific direction, and they are at the risk of really going off the rails. All the potential players and coaches that were available to them choice to go elsewhere (or stay where they were). I'm not sure this combination of coaches and front office staff are the best options for managing their future cap space and making more draft choices. But that may be a discuion for the offseason and will certainly depend on how the team looks and performs the rest of the way this year.

 

[kyoun1e]

I really do fear we see the Mac Jones movie all over again.

What's more likely...that Maye gives them a spark and they can squeeze out an additional win or 2 this year?

Or they are marginally better than with Brissett, but at the same time totally derail a young QB's development?

 

[Bossman]

I really do fear we see the Mac Jones movie all over again.

What's more likely...that Maye gives them a spark and they can squeeze out an additional win or 2 this year?

Or they are marginally better than with Brissett, but at the same time totally derail a young QB's development?

Agreed. Been there. Done That. Jones got worse and worse each year due to bad coaching and a bad supporting cast.
I thought this was the whole point of not starting Maye. Now, 5 games in and that plan goes out the window ... cuz Brissett sucks?
Who cares! Brissett has been taking a beating. It's just a matter of time before he can't get back up anyway.
I think most fans were fine with keeping Maye safe on the bench for as long as possible this season.
It is impossible for him to succeed right now with how the team is built.
The problem is that the coaches are beginning to lose players mentally. Coaches need to show they are trying to win and not just content scoring 10 points a week.
I'm sure the players can see that Maye is the better QB at practice every day. Players would have a hard time respecting the coach that preaches winning but doesn't start the better QB. So here we are.

 

[Insomniac]

I was hoping they would keep Brissett out there for 2 or 3 more weeks. Give Maye a chance to play - in bad circumstances - but reduce the beating he takes overall, draft a Left Tackle and maybe next year they can start to get better.

 

[Bossman]

Pie in the Sky, pipe dreams, glass half full, and rose colored glasses ...
What if Maye comes out and lights it up?
Getting the ball out quickly, hitting quick crossing and out routes to his fast twitch WR's and savvy TE's ... and the occasional deep ball completion? ... which eventually loosens things up for the running game?
What if he's able to use his young legs and run for first downs when the pocket breaks down and the chains keep moving?
What if the offense is able to put up 24+ points and the defense plays as well or better due to being well rested during those long offensive drives?
What if the Patriots manage to go 9-3 the rest of the way and finish with a 10-7 record?
A guy can dream, can't he?

 

[kyoun1e]

Pie in the Sky, pipe dreams, glass half full, and rose colored glasses ...
What if Maye comes out and lights it up?
Getting the ball out quickly, hitting quick crossing and out routes to his fast twitch WR's and savvy TE's ... and the occasional deep ball completion? ... which eventually loosens things up for the running game?
What if he's able to use his young legs and run for first downs when the pocket breaks down and the chains keep moving?
What if the offense is able to put up 24+ points and the defense plays as well or better due to being well rested during those long offensive drives?
What if the Patriots manage to go 9-3 the rest of the way and finish with a 10-7 record?
A guy can dream, can't he?

I think we'll see sparks. Some moments where we see the potential and he hits some WRs down the field more. Maybe score a few more points.

Then again, I think we'll also see some stupid mistakes.

What I don't want to see: That he's getting killed. Hopefully, we see that he is athletic and smart enough that he can avoid getting killed.

 

[Boston]

Pie in the Sky, pipe dreams, glass half full, and rose colored glasses ...
What if Maye comes out and lights it up?
Getting the ball out quickly, hitting quick crossing and out routes to his fast twitch WR's and savvy TE's ... and the occasional deep ball completion? ... which eventually loosens things up for the running game?
What if he's able to use his young legs and run for first downs when the pocket breaks down and the chains keep moving?
What if the offense is able to put up 24+ points and the defense plays as well or better due to being well rested during those long offensive drives?
What if the Patriots manage to go 9-3 the rest of the way and finish with a 10-7 record?
A guy can dream, can't he?

I like your dream! Realistically I just want to see signs that he has the potential to be a franchise QB and can give us hope that they have their QB for the next 10-15 years...what that means is a little vague but I do believe you know it when you see it...I remember watching Josh Allen as rookie and even though he had his struggles I thought he had that "it" factor...on the flipside I never thought anything positive about Zack Wilson from start to finish with the Jets...I was hoping they waited a little longer to start him but now that it is here it does give us something to be excited about.

 

[Anarchy99]

To quote KG, "Anything is possible." However, we need to be realistic. Every player and situation is different, but here are a lot of things that aren't exactly going in Maye's favor.

- The Pats currently have a Bottom 3: OL, receiving corps, coaching staff, and play caller in the league. Not really sure any of those are all that debatable.
- Maye's record at UNC against ranked opponents was 1-6. He padded his stats against a lot of mediocre teams. UNC ended both seasons with Maye starting unranked.
- IMO, older college QBs / guys with multiple years starting / guys from major college schools appear to perform better as NFL rookies (although that's highly variable and not scientific).
- In the time that Maye played in the ACC, the conference produced only one other QB that was drafted (Jordan Travis at Pick #171 by the Jets). The only other guys that got any NFL consideration were Malik Cunningham and Jack Plummer, both of whom were added as UDFAs (both currently on practice squads).
- In the past 10 years, the following QBs were drafted in the Top 10 from what I would describe as "not schools considered as major football programs) and started early in their rookie season: Zach Wilson, Trey Lance, Daniel Jones, Josh Allen, Mitchell Trubisky, Jared Goff, Carson Wentz, and Blake Bortles.
- In their first NFL starts, those 8 guys went 2-6, accounting for 11 total TD and 10 total turnovers, to go along with 25 sacks and an 80.1 passer rating.
- In their rookie season, they combined to go 26-61 as starting QBs.
- There has been a lot of talk this week so far about whether Van Pelt will use a different offense and scheme that better fits Maye (read as: more like the college playbook he ran at UNC). Given that Van Pelt wasn't great at calling anything that worked so far this season, the consensus held that NE was unlikely to adjust their plays to fit Maye.

Maybe Maye is an uber talent and can transform a disaster into a functional unit all by himself, but IMO, that's pretty unlikely. I'm not a huge fan of having him face the Texans in a trial by fire situation. I can see things working out that the Pats lose 27-6 . . . but Maye has one crazy scramble and a bomb that goes for 50 yards and fans will go crazy (even though he may have under a 50% completion rate, 6 sacks, and 3 turnovers on the game).

 

[Bossman]

To quote KG, "Anything is possible." However, we need to be realistic. Every player and situation is different, but here are a lot of things that aren't exactly going in Maye's favor.

- The Pats currently have a Bottom 3: OL, receiving corps, coaching staff, and play caller in the league. Not really sure any of those are all that debatable.
- Maye's record at UNC against ranked opponents was 1-6. He padded his stats against a lot of mediocre teams. UNC ended both seasons with Maye starting unranked.
- IMO, older college QBs / guys with multiple years starting / guys from major college schools appear to perform better as NFL rookies (although that's highly variable and not scientific).
- In the time that Maye played in the ACC, the conference produced only one other QB that was drafted (Jordan Travis at Pick #171 by the Jets). The only other guys that got any NFL consideration were Malik Cunningham and Jack Plummer, both of whom were added as UDFAs (both currently on practice squads).
- In the past 10 years, the following QBs were drafted in the Top 10 from what I would describe as "not schools considered as major football programs) and started early in their rookie season: Zach Wilson, Trey Lance, Daniel Jones, Josh Allen, Mitchell Trubisky, Jared Goff, Carson Wentz, and Blake Bortles.
- In their first NFL starts, those 8 guys went 2-6, accounting for 11 total TD and 10 total turnovers, to go along with 25 sacks and an 80.1 passer rating.
- In their rookie season, they combined to go 26-61 as starting QBs.
- There has been a lot of talk this week so far about whether Van Pelt will use a different offense and scheme that better fits Maye (read as: more like the college playbook he ran at UNC). Given that Van Pelt wasn't great at calling anything that worked so far this season, the consensus held that NE was unlikely to adjust their plays to fit Maye.

Maybe Maye is an uber talent and can transform a disaster into a functional unit all by himself, but IMO, that's pretty unlikely. I'm not a huge fan of having him face the Texans in a trial by fire situation. I can see things working out that the Pats lose 27-6 . . . but Maye has one crazy scramble and a bomb that goes for 50 yards and fans will go crazy (even though he may have under a 50% completion rate, 6 sacks, and 3 turnovers on the game).

Obviously Maye has the deck stacked against him .... but for the sake of argument.
(this post is for entertainment purposes only)

- The Pats currently have a Bottom 3: OL, receiving corps, coaching staff, and play caller in the league. Not really sure any of those are all that debatable.
Maybe the Pats are bottom 3 because their QB held the ball to long and absolutely refused to throw the ball more that 15 yards downfield.

- Maye's record at UNC against ranked opponents was 1-6. He padded his stats against a lot of mediocre teams. UNC ended both seasons with Maye starting unranked.
This is more of a "team" stat. I'm guessing UNC wasn't supposed to win many of those games against ranked opponents. Take away this seasons aberration that was the SF game, the Pats are giving up 18 points a game on defense. Bet you couldn't say that about UNC vs ranked opponents.

- IMO, older college QBs / guys with multiple years starting / guys from major college schools appear to perform better as NFL rookies (although that's highly variable and not scientific).
I'm going with talent, work ethic, laser sharp focus, and an unbridled "will to win" to trump a 1 year difference in age / college experience

- In the time that Maye played in the ACC, the conference produced only one other QB that was drafted (Jordan Travis at Pick #171 by the Jets). The only other guys that got any NFL consideration were Malik Cunningham and Jack Plummer, both of whom were added as UDFAs (both currently on practice squads).
OK, his college conference doesn't produce NFL QB's but Maye sure was coveted like they do. Either Maye has the skills or he doesn't.

- In the past 10 years, the following QBs were drafted in the Top 10 from what I would describe as "not schools considered as major football programs) and started early in their rookie season: Zach Wilson, Trey Lance, Daniel Jones, Josh Allen, Mitchell Trubisky, Jared Goff, Carson Wentz, and Blake Bortles.
In their first NFL starts, those 8 guys went 2-6, accounting for 11 total TD and 10 total turnovers, to go along with 25 sacks and an 80.1 passer rating.
Sure but how many of those guys started week 6 or later and had a top 10 ranked scoring defense?

- In their rookie season, they combined to go 26-61 as starting QBs.
Since 1978, QB's drafted #3 overall from UNC have yet to play in the NFL

- There has been a lot of talk this week so far about whether Van Pelt will use a different offense and scheme that better fits Maye (read as: more like the college playbook he ran at UNC). Given that Van Pelt wasn't great at calling anything that worked so far this season, the consensus held that NE was unlikely to adjust their plays to fit Maye.
Now that he's benched, I prefer to place blame on Brissett for not executing vs Van Pelts play calling. On more than one occasion I watched WR's get open and Brissett was staring down his #1 read and never even turned his head. Can't blame the playcaller there.

 

[Anarchy99]

Maybe the Pats are bottom 3 because their QB held the ball to long and absolutely refused to throw the ball more that 15 yards downfield.

NE had a Bottom 3 offense last year, so not sure this falls on Brissett.

Take away this seasons aberration that was the SF game, the Pats are giving up 18 points a game on defense.

We don't get to ignore games because we don't like how they turned out. The NE defense ranks 24th in yardage allowed and 25th against the pass. With all the injuries (and now the Peppers situation), that doesn't look like that is going to get much better.

I'm going with talent, work ethic, laser sharp focus, and an unbridled "will to win" to trump a 1 year difference in age / college experience.

Maye was always a developmental QB that showed athletic skills in college (where he ran an offense that did not resemble a pro style offense). They had to teach him basic QB stuff in camp like he was a Pop Warner QB. IMO, he's still a developmental QB and needs a lot of refining and work in his decision-making. He had 16 INT and 10 fumbles in college. I expect he will have turnover issues as a rookie (as many rookies do). Lots of skill guys and athletic types get highly touted (but flop). Not saying Maye will fall in that category . . . no one knows much of anything at this point.

Sure but how many of those guys started week 6 or later and had a top 10 ranked scoring defense?

The only QB I listed that started past Week 6 was Goff (Week 10). Trey Lance and Mitchell Trubisky had Top 10 scoring defenses. The Eagles and Carson Wentz missed by 4 points. Josh Allen had a Top 2 defense based on yardage. And I think the NE defense is going in the wrong direction and will end up below league average in both points and yardage allowed.

Since 1978, QB's drafted #3 overall from UNC have yet to play in the NFL

Trubisky was the #2 pick and went to UNC. Limited sample size, but Mitch didn't exactly light the world on fire.

I prefer to place blame on Brissett for not executing vs Van Pelts play calling

I saw plenty of plays where receivers got open on deeper routes when Brissett was getting pummeled in the pocket. I've heard Van Pelt say he has no experience developing quarterbacks. One of the few offenses in the conversation for being the worst offense in the league is the Browns . . . where Van Pelt came from. The Browns average 3.8 yards per play. That's 0.5 yards worse than the Pats. Put another way, Van Pelt would not be an OC on any other franchise . . . his days are numbered (doubt he'll be back next year).

No matter how you slice it, this year's team has failed from the top down. They didn't address their OL needs very well (either in the draft or free agency). They didn't do a great job signing free agents or investing their bounty of cap dollars on improving the team. Their coaching staff is way worse than BB's. And heading into Week 6, they have recurring issues week in and week out. There has been a lot of talk of disunity in the locker room, and they are starting to make bonehead plays and rack up penalties.

Maye alone is not going to solve the OL, coaching, lack of experience, talent deficiency, and injury issues. Could he do better than Brissett? Sure . . . in some ways. He could make some bigger plays . . . but he could also start giving the ball away. None of any of the stuff I have mentioned really matters . . . like you said, Maye will show he can play or he won't. My concern is they are asking him to play a high stakes poker game on a short stack, but he is playing with no cards above a 9.

 

[Anarchy99]

The offense looked like it had more juice with Maye than Brissett. Maye looked better than I thought he would. I attribute much of that to the element of surprise (HOU had no tape to review and went in blind) and the Texans being ahead all game and playing zone or prevent (they didn't need to do anything crazy). That being said, teams aren't going to win allowing a bunch of turnovers, committing a ton of penalties, and rolling out an OL that gives up sacks and pressures all game.

I still think the defense is a bigger issue than people realize . . . people just felt it would be a Top 10 unit and didn't give it much thought. The Pats now rank 21st in points allowed, 25th in yardage allowed, 24th against the pass, and 19th against the run. All of those continue to go in the wrong direction.

The game in London should be interesting. The Jags aren't playing great either. The Pats stand a chance in this one.

 

[kyoun1e]

The offense looked like it had more juice with Maye than Brissett. Maye looked better than I thought he would. I attribute much of that to the element of surprise (HOU had no tape to review and went in blind) and the Texans being ahead all game and playing zone or prevent (they didn't need to do anything crazy). That being said, teams aren't going to win allowing a bunch of turnovers, committing a ton of penalties, and rolling out an OL that gives up sacks and pressures all game.

I still think the defense is a bigger issue than people realize . . . people just felt it would be a Top 10 unit and didn't give it much thought. The Pats now rank 21st in points allowed, 25th in yardage allowed, 24th against the pass, and 19th against the run. All of those continue to go in the wrong direction.

The game in London should be interesting. The Jags aren't playing great either. The Pats stand a chance in this one.

Hard to not realize this after giving up 41 points. The offense finally did its part too.

It's hard to deny that putting Maye was the right decision. I didn't want them to do it, but damn, the offense looks so much better.

Maye gave us all a glimpse of what can be.

For me, the glass just went from half empty to half full. Just hope he doesn't get killed.

I wonder if this team will do anything at the trade deadline.

 

[Anarchy99]

I wonder if this team will do anything at the trade deadline.

I saw a couple of wild articles speculating that NE should trade for Deshaun Watson, getting multiple firsts and/or a bunch of other picks. The rationale being that they have a ton of cap space (which they have had trouble using) . . . why not buy picks with it (and then dump Watson)? I don't really see that happening, as the Browns are terrible and need their picks to find a QB. On top of that, I don't see CLE giving up a ton of top assets to get rid of a player.

 

[kyoun1e]

I wonder if this team will do anything at the trade deadline.

I saw a couple of wild articles speculating that NE should trade for Deshaun Watson, getting multiple firsts and/or a bunch of other picks. The rationale being that they have a ton of cap space (which they have had trouble using) . . . why not buy picks with it (and then dump Watson)? I don't really see that happening, as the Browns are terrible and need their picks to find a QB. On top of that, I don't see CLE giving up a ton of top assets to get rid of a player.

That would be ridiculous.

 

[BLOCKED_PUNT]

hi there,

I have a question about the NE target share. Douglas might be the guy to own here and maybe even Henry would be second in line but after that I'm not sure of what the pecking order is. Boutte?Does Bourne come back? Polk? I guess I'm basically asking who should I get, Boutte or Bourne?

 

[Anarchy99]

Pats PFF rankings through Week 6 (for players that have played enough to earn a rating):

QB (out of 55): Maye 35, Brissett 42
RB (out of 57): Gibson 20, Stevenson 34
WR (out of 86): Douglas 42, Polk 85
TE (out of 35): Henry 17, Hooper 21
T (out of 115): Onwenu 44, Thomas 59, Lowe 81, Wallace 86, Okorafor 105, Jacobs 112
G (out of 101): Jordan 73, Robinson 80, Sow 99
C (out of 52): Andrews 31, Brown 36, Leverett 52

CB (out of 184): MJones 48, Gonzalez 77, JJones 77, Wilson 150, Austin 157, Bolden 163
S (out of 135): Peppers 11, Pettus 37, Dugger 61, Mapu 75, Schooler 79, Hawkins 88
LB (out of 142): Elliss 73, Giles-Harris 85, Jacobs 99, Takitaki 113, Bentley 118, Tavai 121, McMillan 135
Edge (out of 175): White 29, Jennings 58, Ximines 61, Uche 102, Wise 145
Interior (out of 191): Godchaux 49, Roy 53, Pharms 95, Ekuale 95, Johnson 125, Hill 185

P (out of 34): Barringer 3
K (out of 37): Slye 7

Pretty sad that your 2 highest ranked players are kickers and your next best just went on the Commissioner's Exempt List. Even if people don't think much of PPF and how they rate players, Pats fans should find those rankings appauling.

 

[Anarchy99]

hi there,

I have a question about the NE target share. Douglas might be the guy to own here and maybe even Henry would be second in line but after that I'm not sure of what the pecking order is. Boutte?Does Bourne come back? Polk? I guess I'm basically asking who should I get, Boutte or Bourne?

It's likely Douglas and no one else at WR. Polk has been getting open (but only has about a 40% catch percentage so far). Boutte had a big play for a TD this week (but hadn't done much prior to that play). I think they will try to get Bourne more involved . . . but given this group of players and coaches, that still may not translate to being fantasy relevant. The offense should be better with Maye, but after a few weeks, I expect defenses to watch film and figure out what the Pats are doing.