Intentionally Lateraling Out of Bounds (1 Viewer)

[warpedone]

Why wouldn't more teams who are trying to kill the clock after a completion, instead of having guys struggle to get to the sideline, have their receiver just stop and sling the ball out of bounds (backwards, of course). Is there something illegal about doing this?

 

[Mofongo]

Brian Hartline tried to do that this week vs. the Saints and got flagged for an illegal forward pass I believe

 

[shredhead]

Brian Hartline tried to do that this week vs. the Saints and got flagged for an illegal forward pass I believe

I think (and I am assuming here) that play is the reason the OP is asking the question, and why he specified a backward lateral type throw. I don't know the answer, but assume there is a rule against it somewhere. If there's not, there should be.

 

[Maurile Tremblay]

There's a rule against it.

 

[TommyGilmore]

There's a rule against it.

What about fumbling out of bounds?

 

[dolfanatic]

wasn't Hartline, the rookie- it was Camarillo and he should've known better, but I understand the emotion of trying to achieve the goal of getting out of bounds. tough penalty at the time.

 

[The Mooreticians]

Why wouldn't more teams who are trying to kill the clock after a completion, instead of having guys struggle to get to the sideline, have their receiver just stop and sling the ball out of bounds (backwards, of course). Is there something illegal about doing this?

It isn't illegal to do this, but it doesn't stop the clock!Here's a link to information related to fumbles and clock stoppages from the NFL Rulebook.

http://www.nfl.com/rulebook/fumble

http://www.nfl.com/rulebook/timing

http://www.nfl.com/rulebook/timingfinal

Also, in the last two minutes of each half (or on 4th down), only the fumbling player may recover and advance the football for the offense.

On a positive note for the idea, there is no extra penalty for flinging the ball wildly to try to get it to a player who can then step out of bounds. If the ball sails out of bounds by itself, it's a dead ball and the clock continues to run.

Ed: And here's a more direct reference to the situation:

"• If a fumble or lateral goes out of bounds, the clock will stop only until the referee signals ready for play."

http://www.zooped.com/2009/03/26/new-nfl-rules/

 

[Maurile Tremblay]

Rule 4, Section 7, Article 1:

A team is not permitted to conserve time inside of one minute of either half by committing any of the following acts: ...

(d) throwing a backward pass out of bounds; ...

Penalty: For Illegally Conserving Time: Loss of five yards unless a larger distance penalty is applicable.

When actions referred to above are committed by the offensive team while time is in, officials will run 10 seconds off the game clock before permitting the ball to be put in play on the ready-for-play signal. The game clock will start on the ready-for-play signal. If the offensive team has timeouts remaining, it will have the option of using a timeout in lieu of a 10-second runoff, in which case the game clock will start on the snap after the timeout. The defense always has the option to decline the 10-second runoff and have the yardage penalty enforced, but if the yardage penalty is declined, the 10-second runoff is also declined.

 

[TommyGilmore]

Rule 4, Section 7, Article 1:

A team is not permitted to conserve time inside of one minute of either half by committing any of the following acts: ...

(d) throwing a backward pass out of bounds; ...

Penalty: For Illegally Conserving Time: Loss of five yards unless a larger distance penalty is applicable.

When actions referred to above are committed by the offensive team while time is in, officials will run 10 seconds off the game clock before permitting the ball to be put in play on the ready-for-play signal. The game clock will start on the ready-for-play signal. If the offensive team has timeouts remaining, it will have the option of using a timeout in lieu of a 10-second runoff, in which case the game clock will start on the snap after the timeout. The defense always has the option to decline the 10-second runoff and have the yardage penalty enforced, but if the yardage penalty is declined, the 10-second runoff is also declined.

What if there's more than 1 minute remaining in the half?

 

[theplayer11]

there was more than 1 minute..I think...and I don't believe he fumbled forward out of bounds..so how was it an illegal forward pass?

 

[Das Boot]

Rule 4, Section 7, Article 1:

A team is not permitted to conserve time inside of one minute of either half by committing any of the following acts: ...

(d) throwing a backward pass out of bounds; ...

Penalty: For Illegally Conserving Time: Loss of five yards unless a larger distance penalty is applicable.

When actions referred to above are committed by the offensive team while time is in, officials will run 10 seconds off the game clock before permitting the ball to be put in play on the ready-for-play signal. The game clock will start on the ready-for-play signal. If the offensive team has timeouts remaining, it will have the option of using a timeout in lieu of a 10-second runoff, in which case the game clock will start on the snap after the timeout. The defense always has the option to decline the 10-second runoff and have the yardage penalty enforced, but if the yardage penalty is declined, the 10-second runoff is also declined.

Interesting, I've often wondered about this as a strategy and assumed there must be a rule in place since no one does it.So what happens (in terms of how the clock is handled) if it's a legitimate lateral attempt in the last minute and the receiver muffs it OB?

Per the above rule, the ball carrier didn't throw the pass out of bounds, it went OB off the receiver.

 

[TakiToki]

My crazy idea for teams in desperate situations is as follows:

Let's say a pass is completed well downfield in the final seconds, the offense has no time-outs and the receiver cannot get out of bounds. Everyone but the receiver and the player nearest to him (probably another receiver) freezes, so that there's no motion or false start violations. As soon as the the ball is spotted, one WR snaps the ball to the other WR, who then spikes the ball. It's obviously an illegal formation penalty, but there would be no ten-second runoff, as it isn't the foul that stops the clock; a legal spike stops the clock. Worst case, it's a five-yard penalty, but most likely the defense would be offsides, resulting in offsetting penalties.

 

[strong]

there was more than 1 minute..I think...and I don't believe he fumbled forward out of bounds..so how was it an illegal forward pass?

it did go forward. looked like he was trying to toss it backwards but was being tackled and the momentum pushed the ball in a forward direction. the ref stopped the clock initially, but they conferred and announced the penalty.it was not a smart thing to do in that situation, too, because there was still more than two minutes left in the game, they were near midfield, and only down six.

 

[Mr. Retukes]

there was more than 1 minute..I think...and I don't believe he fumbled forward out of bounds..so how was it an illegal forward pass?

it did go forward. looked like he was trying to toss it backwards but was being tackled and the momentum pushed the ball in a forward direction. the ref stopped the clock initially, but they conferred and announced the penalty.it was not a smart thing to do in that situation, too, because there was still more than two minutes left in the game, they were near midfield, and only down six.

So, the penalty was for Illegal Forward Pass, not for Illegally Conserving Time.

 

[Short Corner]

there was more than 1 minute..I think...and I don't believe he fumbled forward out of bounds..so how was it an illegal forward pass?

it did go forward. looked like he was trying to toss it backwards but was being tackled and the momentum pushed the ball in a forward direction. the ref stopped the clock initially, but they conferred and announced the penalty.it was not a smart thing to do in that situation, too, because there was still more than two minutes left in the game, they were near midfield, and only down six.

So, the penalty was for Illegal Forward Pass, not for Illegally Conserving Time.

Nothing gets by you does it?

 

[Billy Costigan Jr]

My crazy idea for teams in desperate situations is as follows:Let's say a pass is completed well downfield in the final seconds, the offense has no time-outs and the receiver cannot get out of bounds. Everyone but the receiver and the player nearest to him (probably another receiver) freezes, so that there's no motion or false start violations. As soon as the the ball is spotted, one WR snaps the ball to the other WR, who then spikes the ball. It's obviously an illegal formation penalty, but there would be no ten-second runoff, as it isn't the foul that stops the clock; a legal spike stops the clock. Worst case, it's a five-yard penalty, but most likely the defense would be offsides, resulting in offsetting penalties.

Interesting

 

[Short Corner]

My crazy idea for teams in desperate situations is as follows:Let's say a pass is completed well downfield in the final seconds, the offense has no time-outs and the receiver cannot get out of bounds. Everyone but the receiver and the player nearest to him (probably another receiver) freezes, so that there's no motion or false start violations. As soon as the the ball is spotted, one WR snaps the ball to the other WR, who then spikes the ball. It's obviously an illegal formation penalty, but there would be no ten-second runoff, as it isn't the foul that stops the clock; a legal spike stops the clock. Worst case, it's a five-yard penalty, but most likely the defense would be offsides, resulting in offsetting penalties.

Interesting

Also. if time runs out on the spike, you would likely have offsetting penalties resulting in an untimed down.

 

[shredhead]

My crazy idea for teams in desperate situations is as follows:Let's say a pass is completed well downfield in the final seconds, the offense has no time-outs and the receiver cannot get out of bounds. Everyone but the receiver and the player nearest to him (probably another receiver) freezes, so that there's no motion or false start violations. As soon as the the ball is spotted, one WR snaps the ball to the other WR, who then spikes the ball. It's obviously an illegal formation penalty, but there would be no ten-second runoff, as it isn't the foul that stops the clock; a legal spike stops the clock. Worst case, it's a five-yard penalty, but most likely the defense would be offsides, resulting in offsetting penalties.

Interesting

Interesting indeed! I'm trying to find a hole in that scenario, but really can't come up with one right now. My gut feeling is that they would run off 10 seconds anyway, but I'm not sure what ruling they would use to justify it. I don't know if intent is enough in this case. I'm sure every team has guys who study the rules and look for loopholes. Given the fact that we've never seen this happen tells me there might not be a loophole to use, but then again, the circumstances for this scenario to play out doesn't come along very often. Does anyone with better knowledge of the rules than me have any opinions on this? Another advantage not mentioned is that offsetting penalties would not result in a loss of down, where spiking the ball does.

 

[Billy Costigan Jr]

My crazy idea for teams in desperate situations is as follows:

Let's say a pass is completed well downfield in the final seconds, the offense has no time-outs and the receiver cannot get out of bounds. Everyone but the receiver and the player nearest to him (probably another receiver) freezes, so that there's no motion or false start violations. As soon as the the ball is spotted, one WR snaps the ball to the other WR, who then spikes the ball. It's obviously an illegal formation penalty, but there would be no ten-second runoff, as it isn't the foul that stops the clock; a legal spike stops the clock. Worst case, it's a five-yard penalty, but most likely the defense would be offsides, resulting in offsetting penalties.

Interesting

Interesting indeed! I'm trying to find a hole in that scenario, but really can't come up with one right now. My gut feeling is that they would run off 10 seconds anyway, but I'm not sure what ruling they would use to justify it. I don't know if intent is enough in this case. I'm sure every team has guys who study the rules and look for loopholes. Given the fact that we've never seen this happen tells me there might not be a loophole to use, but then again, the circumstances for this scenario to play out doesn't come along very often. Does anyone with better knowledge of the rules than me have any opinions on this? Another advantage not mentioned is that offsetting penalties would not result in a loss of down, where spiking the ball does.

I'm such a loser I spent my lunch hour reading the 2006 NFL rulebook (here)I couldn't find anything definitive, except...when do they blow the whistle for an Illegal Formation penalty? I know for a False Start they are supposed to blow it before the snap. If the snap gets off, it doesn't count as a snap.

So if you had a false start in the last minute of a half, there would be a 10 second runoff.

Would this hold true with an Illegal Formation penalty? Would the ref blow the whistle (pre-snap) and then the stop the clock play wouldn't count because it technically never happened...right?

If there are more than 10 seconds on the clock, you gotta do this though and have everyone ready as if they were going to runoff 10 seconds and leave 1 second left for the snap.

And you should have time for everyone to run down the field as they announce the penalty and for the timekeeper to run 10 seconds off the clock and then let play resume.

Hell...you could chuck the ball up into the stands to buy time for them to get a new ball...LOL

Action to Conserve Time

Article 10 A team is not permitted to conserve time inside of one minute of either half by

committing any of the following acts: fouls by either team that prevent the snap (i.e.,

false start, encroachment, etc.), intentional grounding, an illegal forward pass thrown

from beyond the line of scrimmage with the intent to conserve time, throwing a backward

pass out of bounds with the intent to conserve time, and any other intentional foul

that causes the clock to stop.

Penalty: Loss of five yards unless a larger distance penalty is applicable. When

actions referred to above are committed by the offensive team with the clock

running, officials will run 10 seconds off the game clock before permitting the

ball to be put in play on the ready for play signal. The clock will start on the

ready for play signal. If the offensive team has timeouts remaining, it will have

the option of using a timeout in lieu of a 10-second runoff. If the action is by the

defense, the play clock will be reset to 40 seconds and the game clock will start

on the ready signal. If the defense has time outs remaining, it will have the

option of using a time out in lieu of the game clock being started.

NOTE: There never can be a 10-second run off against the defensive team.

 

[Bad_Mo]

wasn't Hartline, the rookie- it was Camarillo and he should've known better, but I understand the emotion of trying to achieve the goal of getting out of bounds. tough penalty at the time.

True. He should have at least made it look like it was a legitimate fumble.

 

[strong]

My crazy idea for teams in desperate situations is as follows:

Let's say a pass is completed well downfield in the final seconds, the offense has no time-outs and the receiver cannot get out of bounds. Everyone but the receiver and the player nearest to him (probably another receiver) freezes, so that there's no motion or false start violations. As soon as the the ball is spotted, one WR snaps the ball to the other WR, who then spikes the ball. It's obviously an illegal formation penalty, but there would be no ten-second runoff, as it isn't the foul that stops the clock; a legal spike stops the clock. Worst case, it's a five-yard penalty, but most likely the defense would be offsides, resulting in offsetting penalties.

they ran ten seconds off for illegal formation at the end of the dolphins game.

 

[strong]

My crazy idea for teams in desperate situations is as follows:

Let's say a pass is completed well downfield in the final seconds, the offense has no time-outs and the receiver cannot get out of bounds. Everyone but the receiver and the player nearest to him (probably another receiver) freezes, so that there's no motion or false start violations. As soon as the the ball is spotted, one WR snaps the ball to the other WR, who then spikes the ball. It's obviously an illegal formation penalty, but there would be no ten-second runoff, as it isn't the foul that stops the clock; a legal spike stops the clock. Worst case, it's a five-yard penalty, but most likely the defense would be offsides, resulting in offsetting penalties.

Interesting

Interesting indeed! I'm trying to find a hole in that scenario, but really can't come up with one right now. My gut feeling is that they would run off 10 seconds anyway, but I'm not sure what ruling they would use to justify it. I don't know if intent is enough in this case. I'm sure every team has guys who study the rules and look for loopholes. Given the fact that we've never seen this happen tells me there might not be a loophole to use, but then again, the circumstances for this scenario to play out doesn't come along very often. Does anyone with better knowledge of the rules than me have any opinions on this? Another advantage not mentioned is that offsetting penalties would not result in a loss of down, where spiking the ball does.

I'm such a loser I spent my lunch hour reading the 2006 NFL rulebook (here)I couldn't find anything definitive, except...when do they blow the whistle for an Illegal Formation penalty? I know for a False Start they are supposed to blow it before the snap. If the snap gets off, it doesn't count as a snap.

So if you had a false start in the last minute of a half, there would be a 10 second runoff.

Would this hold true with an Illegal Formation penalty? Would the ref blow the whistle (pre-snap) and then the stop the clock play wouldn't count because it technically never happened...right?

If there are more than 10 seconds on the clock, you gotta do this though and have everyone ready as if they were going to runoff 10 seconds and leave 1 second left for the snap.

And you should have time for everyone to run down the field as they announce the penalty and for the timekeeper to run 10 seconds off the clock and then let play resume.

Hell...you could chuck the ball up into the stands to buy time for them to get a new ball...LOL

Action to Conserve Time

Article 10 A team is not permitted to conserve time inside of one minute of either half by

committing any of the following acts: fouls by either team that prevent the snap (i.e.,

false start, encroachment, etc.), intentional grounding, an illegal forward pass thrown

from beyond the line of scrimmage with the intent to conserve time, throwing a backward

pass out of bounds with the intent to conserve time, and any other intentional foul

that causes the clock to stop.

Penalty: Loss of five yards unless a larger distance penalty is applicable. When

actions referred to above are committed by the offensive team with the clock

running, officials will run 10 seconds off the game clock before permitting the

ball to be put in play on the ready for play signal. The clock will start on the

ready for play signal. If the offensive team has timeouts remaining, it will have

the option of using a timeout in lieu of a 10-second runoff. If the action is by the

defense, the play clock will be reset to 40 seconds and the game clock will start

on the ready signal. If the defense has time outs remaining, it will have the

option of using a time out in lieu of the game clock being started.

NOTE: There never can be a 10-second run off against the defensive team.

an illegal formation in such a scenario is an intentional foul that subsequently causes the clock to stop.

 

[Billy Costigan Jr]

I'm such a loser I spent my lunch hour reading the 2006 NFL rulebook (here)

I couldn't find anything definitive, except...when do they blow the whistle for an Illegal Formation penalty? I know for a False Start they are supposed to blow it before the snap. If the snap gets off, it doesn't count as a snap.

So if you had a false start in the last minute of a half, there would be a 10 second runoff.

Would this hold true with an Illegal Formation penalty? Would the ref blow the whistle (pre-snap) and then the stop the clock play wouldn't count because it technically never happened...right?

If there are more than 10 seconds on the clock, you gotta do this though and have everyone ready as if they were going to runoff 10 seconds and leave 1 second left for the snap.

And you should have time for everyone to run down the field as they announce the penalty and for the timekeeper to run 10 seconds off the clock and then let play resume.

Hell...you could chuck the ball up into the stands to buy time for them to get a new ball...LOL

Action to Conserve Time

Article 10 A team is not permitted to conserve time inside of one minute of either half by

committing any of the following acts: fouls by either team that prevent the snap (i.e.,

false start, encroachment, etc.), intentional grounding, an illegal forward pass thrown

from beyond the line of scrimmage with the intent to conserve time, throwing a backward

pass out of bounds with the intent to conserve time, and any other intentional foul

that causes the clock to stop.

Penalty: Loss of five yards unless a larger distance penalty is applicable. When

actions referred to above are committed by the offensive team with the clock

running, officials will run 10 seconds off the game clock before permitting the

ball to be put in play on the ready for play signal. The clock will start on the

ready for play signal. If the offensive team has timeouts remaining, it will have

the option of using a timeout in lieu of a 10-second runoff. If the action is by the

defense, the play clock will be reset to 40 seconds and the game clock will start

on the ready signal. If the defense has time outs remaining, it will have the

option of using a time out in lieu of the game clock being started.

NOTE: There never can be a 10-second run off against the defensive team.

an illegal formation in such a scenario is an intentional foul that subsequently causes the clock to stop.

Except inside the last minute of each half.