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Not to mention the first game against Haden was Green and Dalton's first NFL game, with no training camp. Hard to expect much given the circumstances. Green abused Haden in the 2nd game and could have had even more as you noted.
So being big and fast is all that matters when it comes to playing WR? I guess somebody should have told Jerry Rice that about 25 years ago.Green does things better than Calvin, right now as a rookie. He also has physical attributes that are better. The only large separator in these 2 from a fantasy/dynasty standpoint is the disparity in QB play IMO. Calvin has a large advantage in that he will likely be paired with Stafford for many years. Dalton, despite he impressive play as a rookie, is and likely will always hold Green back. Every week Green could be scoring a 40+ yd TD if Dalton could accurately deliver the deep ball. This past week was no acceptation.
Pro Football Focus has Dalton ranked 4 and Stafford ranked 5 for accuracy on deep passing.
You can't really think these things.
Great thread. I would take Green at the back end of round 1, maybe earlier (actually, probably earlier). I have Calvin as pretty easily the #1 overall (the 1.1) in most formats. If it were a choice between taking Calvin at #1 overall (the 1.1) and taking Green at the 1.12, I would take Calvin at #1 overall as he is in my mind the standard of long term centerpieces in the league. So looking solely at draft position, I think Calvin is the better value. However, looking at what it would take to trade Green for Calvin, Green may be the better value.
Why's that, because Green slows up or adjusts to make the catch giving him credit for completion although the ball is poorly thrown? Green should have had a TD on his 55 yd pass yesterday but it was overthrown and he had to dive to make the catch. On the 2nd play of the game vs. Pitt he should have scored again but Dalton severely under threw it and he came back to make the catch anyway. These are just the 2 most recent examples. It's happened all year long. It helps if you watch the games to put stats like that in perspective.
They are each less than 50% accurate on deep balls (targets over 20 yards), so there are many more times that it occurred during the year. The stat takes into account drops by WRs. It doesn't take into account dives by Green or acrobatic catches by Johnson.It was just an objective stat contradicting your view about Dalton. I don't get a chance to see every game by Cincy or Detroit but I'm sure the guys tallying the stats at Pro Football Focus do.
I have watched many Cinci games this year. Dalton's deep passes are sub-par at best. I could easily break this down in a great deal more detail but don't have the time right now.
So are you saying A.J. Green would be the #1 dynasty WR if he were catching passes from a Jugs Machine?
I'm not saying Green should be the #1 WR. I'm simply pointing out that there is more to the story than some are presenting. Calvin is #1 for me as long as he and Stafford are together. Which I think will be a long, long time. Or perhaps, Green gets a QB in Cinci who can better connect on some of the deep passes being missed now. I don't think that's likely either however. Dalton is proving to be a decent NFL QB. He just doesn't play well to the likings of fantasy stats.
I'll add one more stat. Stafford was 30% as a rookie and 48% this year. Dalton is 49% as a rookie. Perhaps he'll also improve.
I hope he does. The throws I'm referring to are more than 20 yds down the field though which may also be why the stat doesn't align very well. The balls he is missing with great frequency are more along the lines of 30+. I'd also imagine that Dalton is throwing a lower amount of the very deep passes compared to Stafford which would also skew the number. For instance if both guys have 100 throws over 20 yds but one has 50 of those such throws 30+ and the other only 25, that would make a pretty big difference. I'd be interested in seeing a much better breakdown than simply 20 yds or more as I don't think it tells a whole lot of the story.
...No way he thinks these things lolNo, there are quite a few differences. Height, speed, strength and 29LBs ...not to mention the coverage difference. Green has better hands, I'll give you that. What happens when he starts to face double and triple coverage? I think hes a top 5 talent in the league, but Calvin is ...well, Calvin.
You must not be watching many Cinci games. Not that you would, they aren't televised often. Green is already seeing double coverage. Perhaps not as often as Calvin, but it is happening and he is still managing to beat it. It is more impressive when you factor that he is still a rookie. Green has better hands and is also much quicker in short areas. He's tall and lanky which makes his short area burst very deceiving but it's elite and better than Calvin's. The height is basically a push. 1 is 6'5" and the other 6'4" and both are monsters when it comes to getting the high ball. I've never seen a guy get as much out of his height/vertical as Green does. I've said that since his days at Georgia. He has a remarkable ability to highpoint the ball, every time. His vertical isn't as good as many others but his timing, body control, ability to track the balls flight and hands make him an elite threat at catching any high pass.
Here is something I'll say, If AJ green tops Calvin's 1300 and 12td second year, you'll have a strong argument and I may begin to believe you actually mean what your saying lol
THANK YOU... someone with some freaking sense. How in the world that guy thinks Green is comparable to Calvin physically is beyond me. I'm officialy labeling this post the shiny new toy syndrome of the year
Here is something I'll say, If AJ green tops Calvin's 1300 and 12td second year, you'll have a strong argument and I may begin to believe you actually mean what your saying lol
No need. My crush on Green goes back 3 years and is nothing new. I don't expect many to see him as better than Calvin, especially not you.I'm officialy labeling this post the shiny new toy syndrome of the year
I would at least expect people to see how good he is by now though.
He's an excellent player, but the answer to the question posed in this thread is unequivocally "No."No need. My crush on Green goes back 3 years and is nothing new. I don't expect many to see him as better than Calvin, especially not you.I'm officialy labeling this post the shiny new toy syndrome of the year
Which again, I agreed with. It's the assumption that Calvin is unquestionably light years more talented than Green that I have a dispute with.He's an excellent player, but the answer to the question posed in this thread is unequivocally "No."No need. My crush on Green goes back 3 years and is nothing new. I don't expect many to see him as better than Calvin, especially not you.I'm officialy labeling this post the shiny new toy syndrome of the year
THANK YOU... someone with some freaking sense. How in the world that guy thinks Green is comparable to Calvin physically is beyond me. I'm officialy labeling this post the shiny new toy syndrome of the year
Here is something I'll say, If AJ green tops Calvin's 1300 and 12td second year, you'll have a strong argument and I may begin to believe you actually mean what your saying lol
Good stuff, I stand corrected!
Yea, another thing I will give you is that Green is already elite at adjusting to the ball. By the time Green is in his prime, he will have better ball skills than Calvin, Just like Larry Fitzgerald does now. Green is a lot more like Fitz than Calvin IMO. Now, that would be interesting... Do you guys think Green will be as good or better than Fitzgerald?Which again, I agreed with. It's the assumption that Calvin is unquestionably light years more talented than Green that I have a dispute with.He's an excellent player, but the answer to the question posed in this thread is unequivocally "No."No need. My crush on Green goes back 3 years and is nothing new. I don't expect many to see him as better than Calvin, especially not you.I'm officialy labeling this post the shiny new toy syndrome of the year
I think he will be better. He can do, or should be able to do in his future, all the things Fitz does but he is taller, faster and quicker. I don't think people realize how explosive Green is because he is so lanky. It's been that way since he was in college. He looks effortless when he runs but he eats up ground in a hurry. It's also amazing at how young the guy looks out there. I mean he really looks like a kid when his helmet is off and he's easily got room to mature into his frame more.Yea, another thing I will give you is that Green is already elite at adjusting to the ball. By the time Green is in his prime, he will have better ball skills than Calvin, Just like Larry Fitzgerald does now. Green is a lot more like Fitz than Calvin IMO. Now, that would be interesting... Do you guys think Green will be as good or better than Fitzgerald?Which again, I agreed with. It's the assumption that Calvin is unquestionably light years more talented than Green that I have a dispute with.He's an excellent player, but the answer to the question posed in this thread is unequivocally "No."No need. My crush on Green goes back 3 years and is nothing new. I don't expect many to see him as better than Calvin, especially not you.I'm officialy labeling this post the shiny new toy syndrome of the year
Question about this... does this only count throws where the ball travels over 30 yds or does it also count completions that end up going for 30+ yds? For example, would these numbers include Green's 33 yd screen pass or not?
The way it's written makes me believe those are throws, but I don't know that for sure.
Better ball skills than Calvin? See the Dallas game where he took it away from 3 Cowboys. Or check the 3:00 mark here. Unlike Green, Calvin doesnt have to develop the best ball skills in the game, he had them from day 1.Yea, another thing I will give you is that Green is already elite at adjusting to the ball. By the time Green is in his prime, he will have better ball skills than Calvin, Just like Larry Fitzgerald does now. Green is a lot more like Fitz than Calvin IMO. Now, that would be interesting... Do you guys think Green will be as good or better than Fitzgerald?Which again, I agreed with. It's the assumption that Calvin is unquestionably light years more talented than Green that I have a dispute with.He's an excellent player, but the answer to the question posed in this thread is unequivocally "No."No need. My crush on Green goes back 3 years and is nothing new. I don't expect many to see him as better than Calvin, especially not you.I'm officialy labeling this post the shiny new toy syndrome of the year
