Is Ben Howland among the top 5 coaches now in college basketball? (1 Viewer)

[timschochet]

Coach K at Duke, Roy Williams, Calipari, Pitino, Self. All fine coaches, and they get the best talent to play for them. Now I think you've got to put Howland at an equal level, as how many guys has accomplished three final fours in a row?

Howland's system is very consistent. The Bruins always seem to win ugly, but they always seem to win. (Except against Florida.)

 

[Tar Heel Boy]

He's somewhere in there behind Coach K, Roy Williams, Pitino, Donovan. If he wins a title this year he gets a bump up the rankings.

 

[moonhead]

it's terribly difficult to recruit to ucla. i agree.

 

[timschochet]

it's terribly difficult to recruit to ucla. i agree.

Sure, it's all about the recruiting. That's why Steve Lavin had an equal level of success with Howland.

 

[Tom Servo]

When he can go back to Pitt and take them to the Final 4, then I'll believe.

 

[moonhead]

it's terribly difficult to recruit to ucla. i agree.

Sure, it's all about the recruiting. That's why Steve Lavin had an equal level of success with Howland.

i'm not arguing that he's not a good coach. he has results. and that's what matters. i'm just saying. it's a cushy job.

 

[Fennis]

it's terribly difficult to recruit to ucla. i agree.

Sure, it's all about the recruiting. That's why Steve Lavin had an equal level of success with Howland.

i'm not arguing that he's not a good coach. he has results. and that's what matters. i'm just saying. it's a cushy job.

I bet these guys disagree with how cushy the job is:Gene Bartow Gary Cunningham Larry Brown Larry Farmer Walt Hazzard Jim Harrick Steve Lavin

 

[Ramblin Wreck]

it's terribly difficult to recruit to ucla. i agree.

Sure, it's all about the recruiting. That's why Steve Lavin had an equal level of success with Howland.

i'm not arguing that he's not a good coach. he has results. and that's what matters. i'm just saying. it's a cushy job.

I bet these guys disagree with how cushy the job is:Gene Bartow Gary Cunningham Larry Brown Larry Farmer Walt Hazzard Jim Harrick Steve Lavin

Wasn't Harrick the coach for the '95 championship team?

 

[bicycle_seat_sniffer]

he's missing a ring, but he's doing a fine job

 

[timschochet]

it's terribly difficult to recruit to ucla. i agree.

Sure, it's all about the recruiting. That's why Steve Lavin had an equal level of success with Howland.

i'm not arguing that he's not a good coach. he has results. and that's what matters. i'm just saying. it's a cushy job.

I bet these guys disagree with how cushy the job is:Gene Bartow Gary Cunningham Larry Brown Larry Farmer Walt Hazzard Jim Harrick Steve Lavin

Wasn't Harrick the coach for the '95 championship team?

Yes but before and after that year he had some very disappointing games in the tournament (Tulsa, Detroit Mercy, and Princeton come to mind). Howland has been much more consistently excellent.

 

[fissure man]

larry brown?

yeah. he's crying over that job.

 

[AussieOyOyOy]

Should have been out in the 2nd round. Outplayed by TAMU and the refs protected them from OT (in which TAMU should have been the betting favorite, IMO).

That said, Howland is definitely a damned good coach.

 

[Ramblin Wreck]

it's terribly difficult to recruit to ucla. i agree.

Sure, it's all about the recruiting. That's why Steve Lavin had an equal level of success with Howland.

i'm not arguing that he's not a good coach. he has results. and that's what matters. i'm just saying. it's a cushy job.

I bet these guys disagree with how cushy the job is:Gene Bartow Gary Cunningham Larry Brown Larry Farmer Walt Hazzard Jim Harrick Steve Lavin

Wasn't Harrick the coach for the '95 championship team?

Yes but before and after that year he had some very disappointing games in the tournament (Tulsa, Detroit Mercy, and Princeton come to mind). Howland has been much more consistently excellent.

Won't debate the consistency but I think most fans would take 1 championship over 3 Final 4's.I think Howland, Self, Calipari, Bo Ryan, Rick Barnes and a few others are excellent coaches but they probably need championships to get on the level with Coach K, Pitino, Roy Williams, Izzo, and Donovan.

 

[timschochet]

Ranking the UCLA head basketball coaches:

1. John Wooden

2. Ben Howland

3. Larry Brown

4. Jim Harrick

5. Gary Cunningham

6. Steve Lavin

7. Gene Bartow

8. Larry Farmer

9. Walt Hazard

The last 4 are somewhat interchangeable.

 

[Judge Smails]

I'm a UCLA fan, and until he wins a ring he can't be put in the elite crowd. Possibly 2 rings.

 

[Fennis]

larry brown? yeah. he's crying over that job.

Im not questioning how successful any of them were or weren't. Im saying calling the UCLA job "cushy" is dumb. Brown left for a reason.

 

[Twilight]

larry brown? yeah. he's crying over that job.

Im not questioning how successful any of them were or weren't. Im saying calling the UCLA job "cushy" is dumb. Brown left for a reason.

UCLA is as "cushy" as Kentucky, North Carolina, or Indiana. You have a built in recruiting advantage, but you better not let it go to waste, or you are quickly screwed.

 

[GDogg]

Ranking the UCLA head basketball coaches:

1. John Wooden

2. Ben Howland

3. Larry Brown

4. Jim Harrick

5. Gary Cunningham

6. Steve Lavin

7. Gene Bartow

8. Larry Farmer

9. Walt Hazard

The last 4 are somewhat interchangeable.

How in the world is Bartow interchangeable with those other three? At the worst, he's up at the Harrick/Cunningham tier. He had the misfortune of being the immediate successor to Wooden, but he guided the Bruins to a 52-9 record during his time as coach and a Final Four appearance in 1976. He quit the UCLA job after the 1977 season.

Gene Bartow is an infinitely better coach than that p.o.s. that coached UCLA during the dark years prior to Howland, and a much better coach than Hazzard or Farmer.

 

[Sinn Fein]

Update?

 

[timschochet]

Update?

it was a great short run. 3 finalfours in 4 years. It didn't last, obviously.

 

[ffldrew]

Ranking the UCLA head basketball coaches:

1. John Wooden

2. Ben Howland

3. Larry Brown

4. Jim Harrick

5. Gary Cunningham

6. Steve Lavin

7. Gene Bartow

8. Larry Farmer

9. Walt Hazard

The last 4 are somewhat interchangeable.

How in the world is Bartow interchangeable with those other three?At the worst, he's up at the Harrick/Cunningham tier. He had the misfortune of being the immediate successor to Wooden, but he guided the Bruins to a 52-9 record during his time as coach and a Final Four appearance in 1976. He quit the UCLA job after the 1977 season.

Gene Bartow is an infinitely better coach than that p.o.s. that coached UCLA during the dark years prior to Howland, and a much better coach than Hazzard or Farmer.

Great ####### post

 

[Eephus]

Ranking the UCLA head basketball coaches:

1. John Wooden

2. Ben Howland

3. Larry Brown

4. Jim Harrick

5. Gary Cunningham

6. Steve Lavin

7. Gene Bartow

8. Larry Farmer

9. Walt Hazard

The last 4 are somewhat interchangeable.

How in the world is Bartow interchangeable with those other three?At the worst, he's up at the Harrick/Cunningham tier. He had the misfortune of being the immediate successor to Wooden, but he guided the Bruins to a 52-9 record during his time as coach and a Final Four appearance in 1976. He quit the UCLA job after the 1977 season.

Gene Bartow is an infinitely better coach than that p.o.s. that coached UCLA during the dark years prior to Howland, and a much better coach than Hazzard or Farmer.

Great ####### post

There's a natural tendency to favor more recent coaches. Bartow's run in Westwood was 40 years ago and there aren't that many people around who remember him well. He also didn't stay there very long. It's hard to assess college coaches if they never have a squad entirely made up of their own recruits. UCLA did have a huge recruiting advantages in those days--those late 70s teams were loaded with future NBA talent.

Bartow did fine jobs building the Memphis State and UAB programs but I don't know how those factor into Timrankingstm.

I follow Marquette because my daughter goes there. Howland was the post-Shaka favorite for that job but Wojciechowski supposedly aced his interview. Wojo's first recruiting class is outstanding but we'll see how he coaches. I think Howland needs to get back into the game next year. He'll be pushing 60 by then and ADs have short memories.

 

[GDogg]

Update?

it was a great short run. 3 finalfours in 4 years

. It didn't last, obviously.

That's an interesting way of describing it. Or, we could say, "three straight final fours."

Obviously, college and the NBA are completely different animals and players develop, but looking back at the UCLA rosters on those final four teams makes me sick. I think Howland was a good coach, but how in the world do you not win at least one title with those teams?

 

[timschochet]

Update?

it was a great short run. 3 finalfours in 4 years

. It didn't last, obviously.

That's an interesting way of describing it. Or, we could say, "three straight final fours."

Obviously, college and the NBA are completely different animals and players develop, but looking back at the UCLA rosters on those final four teams makes me sick. I think Howland was a good coach, but how in the world do you not win at least one title with those teams?

Florida was too good and better coached.

 

[Eephus]

Update?

it was a great short run. 3 finalfours in 4 years

. It didn't last, obviously.

That's an interesting way of describing it. Or, we could say, "three straight final fours."

Obviously, college and the NBA are completely different animals and players develop, but looking back at the UCLA rosters on those final four teams makes me sick. I think Howland was a good coach, but how in the world do you not win at least one title with those teams?

It's easy to criticize Howland for not winning a national title with Love and Westbrook but it's a fair defense to say Freshman Love and Sophomore Westbrook were a lot different from their NBA equivalents. Losing to a Florida team with Horford, Noah and Brewer as upperclassmen isn't an embarrassment.

 

[GDogg]

Update?

it was a great short run. 3 finalfours in 4 years

. It didn't last, obviously.

That's an interesting way of describing it. Or, we could say, "three straight final fours."

Obviously, college and the NBA are completely different animals and players develop, but looking back at the UCLA rosters on those final four teams makes me sick. I think Howland was a good coach, but how in the world do you not win at least one title with those teams?

Florida was too good and better coached.

Ok. So, how about the 2008 squad? They lost to Memphis.

 

[GDogg]

Update?

it was a great short run. 3 finalfours in 4 years

. It didn't last, obviously.

That's an interesting way of describing it. Or, we could say, "three straight final fours."

Obviously, college and the NBA are completely different animals and players develop, but looking back at the UCLA rosters on those final four teams makes me sick. I think Howland was a good coach, but how in the world do you not win at least one title with those teams?

It's easy to criticize Howland for not winning a national title with Love and Westbrook but it's a fair defense to say Freshman Love and Sophomore Westbrook were a lot different from their NBA equivalents. Losing to a Florida team with Horford, Noah and Brewer as upperclassmen isn't an embarrassment.

Agreed.

The 2008 team, though, with Frosh Love and Soph Westbrook (and both were pretty damn good back then) along with a Senior Darren Collison (NBA 1st Round pick and 6 year starting NBA PG) and a veteran Josh Shipp doesn't have too many excuses other than a piss poor game plan.

 

[timschochet]

Update?

it was a great short run. 3 finalfours in 4 years

. It didn't last, obviously.

That's an interesting way of describing it. Or, we could say, "three straight final fours."

Obviously, college and the NBA are completely different animals and players develop, but looking back at the UCLA rosters on those final four teams makes me sick. I think Howland was a good coach, but how in the world do you not win at least one title with those teams?

Florida was too good and better coached.

Ok. So, how about the 2008 squad? They lost to Memphis.

Yeah that pissed me off. Derrick Rose was better than anyone the Bruins had? That's all I got.

I will add that when you watch Russell Westbrook in the NBA, it seems like UCLA did not use his skills correctly. Is that where you're going with this?

 

[Eephus]

Update?

it was a great short run. 3 finalfours in 4 years

. It didn't last, obviously.

That's an interesting way of describing it. Or, we could say, "three straight final fours."

Obviously, college and the NBA are completely different animals and players develop, but looking back at the UCLA rosters on those final four teams makes me sick. I think Howland was a good coach, but how in the world do you not win at least one title with those teams?

Florida was too good and better coached.

Ok. So, how about the 2008 squad? They lost to Memphis.

Yeah that pissed me off. Derrick Rose was better than anyone the Bruins had? That's all I got.

I will add that when you watch Russell Westbrook in the NBA, it seems like UCLA did not use his skills correctly. Is that where you're going with this?

I don't remember that semifinal game but based on the boxscore, it looks like Rose owned Collison pretty badly.

 

[GDogg]

Update?

it was a great short run. 3 finalfours in 4 years

. It didn't last, obviously.

That's an interesting way of describing it. Or, we could say, "three straight final fours."

Obviously, college and the NBA are completely different animals and players develop, but looking back at the UCLA rosters on those final four teams makes me sick. I think Howland was a good coach, but how in the world do you not win at least one title with those teams?

Florida was too good and better coached.

Ok. So, how about the 2008 squad? They lost to Memphis.

Yeah that pissed me off. Derrick Rose was better than anyone the Bruins had? That's all I got.

I will add that when you watch Russell Westbrook in the NBA, it seems like UCLA did not use his skills correctly. Is that where you're going with this?

Like I said, I think Howland was a very good coach (for the most part), but he screwed up those FF games.

He had what have turned out to be, at worst, two of the top 10 players in the NBA along with another guy who is a starter in the NBA and more or less got blown out.

 

[GDogg]

Update?

it was a great short run. 3 finalfours in 4 years

. It didn't last, obviously.

That's an interesting way of describing it. Or, we could say, "three straight final fours."

Obviously, college and the NBA are completely different animals and players develop, but looking back at the UCLA rosters on those final four teams makes me sick. I think Howland was a good coach, but how in the world do you not win at least one title with those teams?

Florida was too good and better coached.

Ok. So, how about the 2008 squad? They lost to Memphis.

Yeah that pissed me off. Derrick Rose was better than anyone the Bruins had? That's all I got.

I will add that when you watch Russell Westbrook in the NBA, it seems like UCLA did not use his skills correctly. Is that where you're going with this?

I don't remember that semifinal game but based on the boxscore, it looks like Rose owned Collison pretty badly.

He did.

Collison shouldn't have been guarding Rose (and Howland admitted as much later). It was an awful matchup. Rose was much too big and strong for Collison to guard. Westbrook, who was UCLA's best defensive player by far (and was the P12 DPOY), should have been on him with Collison guarding whoever the 3 was (can't recall his name, but he rarely shot for Memphis). Throw Mbah a Moute at CDR and take your chances against Dorsey and Co.

And, I forgot to include Mbah a Moute in that assessment above. That's four future NBA starters in the UCLA starting 5, including two of the top 10 players in the NBA. As I said, players develop, but still. Westbrook and Love were top 5 picks. Collison was a first rounder in the same draft, and Mbah a Moute was drafted in the 2nd and immediately signed to a guaranteed three year contract. It isn't like these were diamonds in the rough. They were diamonds not put in the best position to win those games.

Howland was stubborn and had a poor game plan for Florida and Memphis.

 

[nirad3]

When he can go back to UCSB and take them to the Final 4, then I'll believe.

Fixed

it's terribly difficult to recruit to ucla. i agree.

Sure, it's all about the recruiting. That's why Steve Lavin had an equal level of success with Howland.

i'm not arguing that he's not a good coach. he has results. and that's what matters. i'm just saying. it's a cushy job.

I bet these guys disagree with how cushy the job is:Gene Bartow Gary Cunningham Larry Brown Larry Farmer Walt Hazzard Jim Harrick Steve Lavin

Wasn't Harrick the coach for the '95 championship team?

Yes but before and after that year he had some very disappointing games in the tournament (Tulsa, Detroit Mercy, and Princeton come to mind). Howland has been much more consistently excellent.

Won't debate the consistency but I think most fans would take 1 championship over 3 Final 4's.I think Howland, Self, Calipari, Bo Ryan, Rick Barnes and a few others are excellent coaches but they probably need championships to get on the level with Coach K, Pitino, Roy Williams, Izzo, and Donovan.

what?

 

[Aerial Assault]

Great thread. Truly one of the greatest coaches ever, without doubt.