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Is Ben Roethlisberger as good as Tom Brady? (4 Viewers)

A discussion that would make more sense is :"Is Roethlisberger as good as Rodgers/Rivers"?
A guy who has won two Super Bowls vs. two that have never been to a Super Bowl. Next.
Was Troy Aikman better than Dan Marino because he went to and won three Super Bowls and Marino only went to one and lost it?
Thank you, I was going to use the Dilfer argument. Anyways, consistently having the best defense in the league year in and year out helps when winning a team game consisting of 52 other players. Don't get me wrong, Ben is clutch. But he is more on Rodgers/Rovers level.... to even mention him in the same sentence as Brady simply because of Superbowls is a joke. I understand why Superbowls are important, but it is not the only measuring stick when ranking a Quarterback. It can't be. Offense, Defense, Special Teams...there is just too much that goes into winning a Championship to give the QB all the credit when it does happen. Manning/Brady are on a level above anyone in the league.
I think Joyner hit it on the head. Brady and Ben have different styles but they are similarly effective. I'd agree that Brady is the best. But Brady at 28 was very comparable to Ben now. Brady had gone from a game manager to becoming the guy that controlled the Pats O. He had 3 Super Bowls, Ben has two. Brady had one 4000 yard season to that point and no 30 TD seasons (Ben has 1/1). Both had excellent defenses. Ben is just entering his prime years. The question is whether Ben can continue to elevate his game into his prime as Brady has. This year we've seen it, his sacks have come down despite losing both starting tackles and his INTs are at a career low (currently 158 consecutive passes without an INT). The best is yet to come.
 
munchkin said:
Adebisi said:
Wow, I didn't realize until looking at his career stats just now that Roethlisberger has only played one full 16 game schedule in his career.

Give me a break with this "Brady wouldn't have survived being the QB of the Steelers over the past 4 or 5 years" nonsense. Brady's probably tougher than Roethlisberger is. He's probably definitely better at avoiding big hits, too.
Part of that is due to his off field issues as well.

The Steelers have won a SB despite the play of Ben; the Patriots haven't won unless Brady plays well. It's not fair to say that Brady is the heart and soul of the Patriots but he is more important to the team than Ben is to the Steelers. Maybe that statement isn't as fair to say today as it was in the past but the Steelers can win with their Defense and running game (they did while Ben was suspended); the Pats haven't proven they can yet.
In the 3 years Brady won a superbowl his ave stats looked like this per year:

3,385 yrds 23 TDs 13 Ints ---- 3 RINGS

Since then:

4,148 yrds 33 TDs 10 Ints ---- 0 RINGS

Dont tell me Tom Brady is the reason for success, NE was more successful when he was an average QB who played good in clutch under a GREAT system, GREAT line, and GREAT defense.

 
A discussion that would make more sense is :"Is Roethlisberger as good as Rodgers/Rivers"?
A guy who has won two Super Bowls vs. two that have never been to a Super Bowl. Next.
A guy who plays for the Steelers vs. two that don't. Next. For being by far the biggest homers in sports, Steelers fans sure sell their boys short when they're sucking on the QB's teet. Obviously, any thread about Harrison or Woodley or Ward or Tomlin or anyone else gets them homering away, too.
 
A discussion that would make more sense is :"Is Roethlisberger as good as Rodgers/Rivers"?
A guy who has won two Super Bowls vs. two that have never been to a Super Bowl. Next.
A guy who plays for the Steelers vs. two that don't. Next. For being by far the biggest homers in sports, Steelers fans sure sell their boys short when they're sucking on the QB's teet. Obviously, any thread about Harrison or Woodley or Ward or Tomlin or anyone else gets them homering away, too.
Apparently this guy was comatose during the O'Donnell/Kordell/Tommy Gun decade.
 
I think when any argument is based purely on wins and losses, it's a failure.

And frankly, Manning and Brady are the top-2 QBs in the NFL. But Roethlisberger is much closer to Brady's level than Manning's level. Give Ben or Tom a great team and they'll be able to win, but expect them to carry the load and the team will falter (as NE saw the last few seasons). They are both fortunate to have been on excellent teams with good coaching throughout their careers.

 
In the 3 years Brady won a superbowl his ave stats looked like this per year:3,385 yrds 23 TDs 13 Ints ---- 3 RINGSSince then:4,148 yrds 33 TDs 10 Ints ---- 0 RINGSDont tell me Tom Brady is the reason for success, NE was more successful when he was an average QB who played good in clutch under a GREAT system, GREAT line, and GREAT defense.
:goodposting:
 
I think when any argument is based purely on wins and losses, it's a failure.

And frankly, Manning and Brady are the top-2 QBs in the NFL. But Roethlisberger is much closer to Brady's level than Manning's level. Give Ben or Tom a great team and they'll be able to win, but expect them to carry the load and the team will falter (as NE saw the last few seasons). They are both fortunate to have been on excellent teams with good coaching throughout their careers.
But this is true for Manning as well. Some forget that his only Super Bowl win came about because the Colts defense outshined their O during the playoffs.

 
I think when any argument is based purely on wins and losses, it's a failure.

And frankly, Manning and Brady are the top-2 QBs in the NFL. But Roethlisberger is much closer to Brady's level than Manning's level. Give Ben or Tom a great team and they'll be able to win, but expect them to carry the load and the team will falter (as NE saw the last few seasons). They are both fortunate to have been on excellent teams with good coaching throughout their careers.
But this is true for Manning as well. Some forget that his only Super Bowl win came about because the Colts defense outshined their O during the playoffs.
but are you really comparing the Colts defense that year to one of the Steelers Patriots defense?? I know they played their butt off, but kinda different there.
 
I think when any argument is based purely on wins and losses, it's a failure.

And frankly, Manning and Brady are the top-2 QBs in the NFL. But Roethlisberger is much closer to Brady's level than Manning's level. Give Ben or Tom a great team and they'll be able to win, but expect them to carry the load and the team will falter (as NE saw the last few seasons). They are both fortunate to have been on excellent teams with good coaching throughout their careers.
But this is true for Manning as well. Some forget that his only Super Bowl win came about because the Colts defense outshined their O during the playoffs.
but are you really comparing the Colts defense that year to one of the Steelers Patriots defense?? I know they played their butt off, but kinda different there.
In the playoffs? Absolutely. In the playoffs, they gave up 8 (KC), then 6 (BAL) to get to the AFC championship. They gave up 34 to NE, but then held Chicago to 17. Stats, especially regular season stats on the defense, don't matter a lick. The Colts D was a dominant force in the IND run to a super bowl. Manning had a huge hand in the NE win, but didn't play particularly well in the other 3 games ( 3 INT vs. KC, 2 INT vs. BAL, 247/1/1 in the SB ) Giving up a total of 31 points in those 3 games, I'd say that was on par with any of the Patriots or Steelers recent SB runs.
 
I think when any argument is based purely on wins and losses, it's a failure.

And frankly, Manning and Brady are the top-2 QBs in the NFL. But Roethlisberger is much closer to Brady's level than Manning's level. Give Ben or Tom a great team and they'll be able to win, but expect them to carry the load and the team will falter (as NE saw the last few seasons). They are both fortunate to have been on excellent teams with good coaching throughout their careers.
But this is true for Manning as well. Some forget that his only Super Bowl win came about because the Colts defense outshined their O during the playoffs.
but are you really comparing the Colts defense that year to one of the Steelers Patriots defense?? I know they played their butt off, but kinda different there.
Maybe this is a better approach:Playoff TD/INT Ratio of SB winning QB

Roethlisberger '05 (4 games) 7 TD- 3 INT (2 TD rush)

Roethlisberger '08 (3 games) 3 TD- 1 INT

Manning '06 (4 games) 3 TD - 7 INT (1 TD rush)

Brady '01 (3 games) 1 TD - 1 INT (1 rush TD)

Brady '03 (3 games) 5 TD - 2 INT

Brady '04 (3 games) 5 TD - 0 INT (1 rush TD)

 
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Give Ben or Tom a great team and they'll be able to win, but expect them to carry the load and the team will falter (as NE saw the last few seasons).
Which "last few seasons" are you referring to where the Pats have faltered so badly under Brady's leadership?Here are the results of Brady's last few seasons;2006 12-4 Division Winner, #4 Seed, Lost AFC Championship2007 16-0 Division Winner, #1 Seed, Lost Superbowl2009 10-6 Division Winner, #3 Seed, Lost Wildcard (return after lost year due to injury)2010 14-2 Division Winner, #1 Seed, Remains to be seen
 
I think when any argument is based purely on wins and losses, it's a failure.

And frankly, Manning and Brady are the top-2 QBs in the NFL. But Roethlisberger is much closer to Brady's level than Manning's level. Give Ben or Tom a great team and they'll be able to win, but expect them to carry the load and the team will falter (as NE saw the last few seasons). They are both fortunate to have been on excellent teams with good coaching throughout their careers.
But this is true for Manning as well. Some forget that his only Super Bowl win came about because the Colts defense outshined their O during the playoffs.
but are you really comparing the Colts defense that year to one of the Steelers Patriots defense?? I know they played their butt off, but kinda different there.
In the playoffs? Absolutely. In the playoffs, they gave up 8 (KC), then 6 (BAL) to get to the AFC championship. They gave up 34 to NE, but then held Chicago to 17. Stats, especially regular season stats on the defense, don't matter a lick. The Colts D was a dominant force in the IND run to a super bowl. Manning had a huge hand in the NE win, but didn't play particularly well in the other 3 games ( 3 INT vs. KC, 2 INT vs. BAL, 247/1/1 in the SB ) Giving up a total of 31 points in those 3 games, I'd say that was on par with any of the Patriots or Steelers recent SB runs.
Actually they only gave up 27 to NE as Samuel had a pick six in the first half.
 
Give Ben or Tom a great team and they'll be able to win, but expect them to carry the load and the team will falter (as NE saw the last few seasons).
Which "last few seasons" are you referring to where the Pats have faltered so badly under Brady's leadership?Here are the results of Brady's last few seasons;

2006 12-4 Division Winner, #4 Seed, Lost AFC Championship

2007 16-0 Division Winner, #1 Seed, Lost Superbowl

2009 10-6 Division Winner, #3 Seed, Lost Wildcard (return after lost year due to injury) :shrug:

2010 14-2 Division Winner, #1 Seed, Remains to be seen
They won 3 Super Bowls when Tom didn't need to carry the team, they haven't won one since 2004, hope that helps.
 
Give Ben or Tom a great team and they'll be able to win, but expect them to carry the load and the team will falter (as NE saw the last few seasons).
Which "last few seasons" are you referring to where the Pats have faltered so badly under Brady's leadership?Here are the results of Brady's last few seasons;2006 12-4 Division Winner, #4 Seed, Lost AFC Championship2007 16-0 Division Winner, #1 Seed, Lost Superbowl2009 10-6 Division Winner, #3 Seed, Lost Wildcard (return after lost year due to injury)2010 14-2 Division Winner, #1 Seed, Remains to be seen
and they all add up to 0, the amount of rings that gave him. Isnt that all its about for Brady fans? Thats their best arguement of why he is so good, so if he has none in those years its faultering. In another thread they are talking about how bad Manning is doing even though he has made like 9 straight playoff appearances. I guess rings are all that matter.
 
Give Ben or Tom a great team and they'll be able to win, but expect them to carry the load and the team will falter (as NE saw the last few seasons).
Which "last few seasons" are you referring to where the Pats have faltered so badly under Brady's leadership?Here are the results of Brady's last few seasons;2006 12-4 Division Winner, #4 Seed, Lost AFC Championship2007 16-0 Division Winner, #1 Seed, Lost Superbowl2009 10-6 Division Winner, #3 Seed, Lost Wildcard (return after lost year due to injury)2010 14-2 Division Winner, #1 Seed, Remains to be seen
and they all add up to 0, the amount of rings that gave him. Isnt that all its about for Brady fans? Thats their best arguement of why he is so good, so if he has none in those years its faultering. In another thread they are talking about how bad Manning is doing even though he has made like 9 straight playoff appearances. I guess rings are all that matter.
In a way, you're right. Brady has set the bar so high that only SB championships count as success. It must be much easier for Manning, who only has to put up 16 points in a playoff loss to have his fanboys jump to his defense of how great he is.
 
Give Ben or Tom a great team and they'll be able to win, but expect them to carry the load and the team will falter (as NE saw the last few seasons).
Which "last few seasons" are you referring to where the Pats have faltered so badly under Brady's leadership?Here are the results of Brady's last few seasons;

2006 12-4 Division Winner, #4 Seed, Lost AFC Championship

2007 16-0 Division Winner, #1 Seed, Lost Superbowl

2009 10-6 Division Winner, #3 Seed, Lost Wildcard (return after lost year due to injury) :lmao:

2010 14-2 Division Winner, #1 Seed, Remains to be seen
They won 3 Super Bowls when Tom didn't need to carry the team, they haven't won one since 2004, hope that helps.
Yeah, it really doesn't. You seem to define "faltering" as anything short of a SuperBowl victory. Well unless I missed something Peyton's teams have "faltered" the last few years too. So maybe you should let him know that he has this unique ability to carry his team to Championships in spite of his supporting cast because he apparently didn't get the memo. :lmao:
 
Give Ben or Tom a great team and they'll be able to win, but expect them to carry the load and the team will falter (as NE saw the last few seasons).
Which "last few seasons" are you referring to where the Pats have faltered so badly under Brady's leadership?Here are the results of Brady's last few seasons;

2006 12-4 Division Winner, #4 Seed, Lost AFC Championship

2007 16-0 Division Winner, #1 Seed, Lost Superbowl

2009 10-6 Division Winner, #3 Seed, Lost Wildcard (return after lost year due to injury) :lmao:

2010 14-2 Division Winner, #1 Seed, Remains to be seen
They won 3 Super Bowls when Tom didn't need to carry the team, they haven't won one since 2004, hope that helps.
Yeah, it really doesn't. You seem to define "faltering" as anything short of a SuperBowl victory. Well unless I missed something Peyton's teams have "faltered" the last few years too. So maybe you should let him know that he has this unique ability to carry his team to Championships in spite of his supporting cast because he apparently didn't get the memo. :lmao:
That was more sarcasm. Its always Brady fans that say ITS ALL ABOUT THE RINGS, until he stops getting them. Now its all about playoff appearances.

 
Give Ben or Tom a great team and they'll be able to win, but expect them to carry the load and the team will falter (as NE saw the last few seasons).
Which "last few seasons" are you referring to where the Pats have faltered so badly under Brady's leadership?Here are the results of Brady's last few seasons;

2006 12-4 Division Winner, #4 Seed, Lost AFC Championship

2007 16-0 Division Winner, #1 Seed, Lost Superbowl

2009 10-6 Division Winner, #3 Seed, Lost Wildcard (return after lost year due to injury) :lmao:

2010 14-2 Division Winner, #1 Seed, Remains to be seen
They won 3 Super Bowls when Tom didn't need to carry the team, they haven't won one since 2004, hope that helps.
Yeah, it really doesn't. You seem to define "faltering" as anything short of a SuperBowl victory. Well unless I missed something Peyton's teams have "faltered" the last few years too. So maybe you should let him know that he has this unique ability to carry his team to Championships in spite of his supporting cast because he apparently didn't get the memo. :lmao:
That was more sarcasm. Its always Brady fans that say ITS ALL ABOUT THE RINGS, until he stops getting them. Now its all about playoff appearances.
And for the record I think Brady is a WAY better QB the last 4 years than his first 4 years and in his first 4 he has 3 rings, his last 4 he has none. So just to back up my point. What QB would you rather have? Brady his first 4 years with 3 rings or Brady these last 4 with none?
 
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Give Ben or Tom a great team and they'll be able to win, but expect them to carry the load and the team will falter (as NE saw the last few seasons).
Which "last few seasons" are you referring to where the Pats have faltered so badly under Brady's leadership?Here are the results of Brady's last few seasons;

2006 12-4 Division Winner, #4 Seed, Lost AFC Championship

2007 16-0 Division Winner, #1 Seed, Lost Superbowl

2009 10-6 Division Winner, #3 Seed, Lost Wildcard (return after lost year due to injury) :unsure:

2010 14-2 Division Winner, #1 Seed, Remains to be seen
They won 3 Super Bowls when Tom didn't need to carry the team, they haven't won one since 2004, hope that helps.
Yeah, it really doesn't. You seem to define "faltering" as anything short of a SuperBowl victory. Well unless I missed something Peyton's teams have "faltered" the last few years too. So maybe you should let him know that he has this unique ability to carry his team to Championships in spite of his supporting cast because he apparently didn't get the memo. :(
That was more sarcasm. Its always Brady fans that say ITS ALL ABOUT THE RINGS, until he stops getting them. Now its all about playoff appearances.
I didn't say it was about either one. I'm just wanting to know how we define "faltering" and how one could possibly suggest that Brady's teams have faltered recently but Manning's haven't as they look to have had pretty similar results.
 
I dont think it is faultering, but Brady fans arguement that Brady>>>>Manning is based off of rings, and that Manning doesnt have them. So its more that the pedistal that Brady was on because of having so many rings is what he has fallen off of and now has to currently be compared with scubs like Manning and Brees :excited:

 
Give me Ben on this Steeler team any day of the week, Brady would have had his head shoved up his vajayjay playing behind this line.

 
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This thread is hilarious.

Edit to Add Ben's Superb Super Bowl Stats, since thats what makes him so great

Vs Seahawks:

Cmp: 9

Att: 21

Yds: 123

TD: 0

INT: 2

Vs Cardinals:

Cmp: 21

Att: 30

Yds: 256

TD: 1

INT: 1

Roethlisberger was outplayed by the opposing QB in both of his Super Bowl victories.

In his epic Super Bowl performances he has combined for 1 TD throwing, 1 TD running, and 3 INT's.

Antwawn Randel El has as many passing TD's for the Steelers as Ben does in Super Bowls.

Ben Roethlisberger has zero Super Bowl MVP awards.

I'm not saying Roethlisberger is crap. But his value is way overblown by Steeler fans.. Brady won his Superbowls because of his system. Roethlisberger won his with great defenses. Superbowls are not what makes Brady great today, as he is a vastly different player today than he was when the Pats were winning Superbowls.

My point....winning Superbowls doesn't neccessarily mean any QB should me mentioned as the best in the league, as a lack of them shouldn't disqualify a player. Again....Ben was outplayed by both QB's he faced in each of his Superbowl wins. If you want to use SB's as a reason the guy is great and comparable to Brady today....it would help if he at least outplayed the other guy in the big game.

 
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The posters that have been telling the rest of you (for 10 years now) that Brady is the best QB in the NFL have been more than proven right at this point.

[/thread]

[/forum]

 
Better than Brady? No, but he is damn good and a unique QB who has plenty more years ahead of him so time will tell.

 
A discussion that would make more sense is :"Is Roethlisberger as good as Rodgers/Rivers"?
I would say Ben is closer to Manning/Brady than he is to Rivers/Rodgers
:rolleyes: I'm a NE homer, but if I had to pick one non-Brady QB to win a big game, pretty sure it'd be Roethlisberger.As to the comments about whether or not Brady could've "survived" in PIT the past few years, I understand where they're coming from (i.e. the Steeler offensive line is horrendous), but I'm not positive it's true. Ben gets it done by being evasive, mobile, and strong enough to shake off some arm tackles while he looks down field to make something happen. Brady avoids the pass rush by making small, but extremely effective steps around the pocket and having a lightning fast release. I understand, however, and accept that Brady's approach might not have worked in PIT the past few years while Roethlisberger is probably the perfect QB for that situation. Either way, Pats fans shouldn't take this as an insult, it's not.
 
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If Ben guides the Steelers to a superbowl win this year (especially if he outplays Brady in the championship game), I think he'd have to be in the conversation of being as "clutch" as Brady. Not sure if he should ever be considered a better qb than Brady.
In the conversation?? Let's be clear on this point - Adam Vinatieri was clutch and Brady did a nice job of getting him into position to win the games. How many rings does Brady have in the post Vinatieri era?
 
Its always Brady fans that say ITS ALL ABOUT THE RINGS
Actually, it's usually the opposite. A lot of people talk about Brady's rings, and it's obviously a huge checkmark on his side of the ledger, but it's usually people like you trying to preemptively dismiss his championships who bring up the rings argument. By setting it up as a strawman, you can more conveniently ignore Brady's other accomplishments, which makes you feel better about the fact that you developed an opinion years ago based on incomplete data and you were wrong.
 
Someone already posted this, and Pats fans will deny it until the end of time, but Roethlisberger has produced much the same results as Brady has. Brady is 5 years older than Roethlisberger, and its in the last 5 seasons where Brady has put up monster numbers. Maybe that's a product of him getting older, more knowledgeable, more comfortable in the NE system, having better players. Maybe it's a combination of all these things.

Look at Brady when he was 28, and look at Ben now. Ben has played 1 more season than Brady did when he was 28 (two, if you dis-count Brady's rookie year, since he didn't play). Ben has averaged slightly fewer yards and TDs (per year) than Brady did to this point in their respective careers, but Ben has completed a slightly higher percentage of his passes and averaged slightly fewer INTs (per year) than Brady has to this point in their respective careers.

Wins-Brady averaged 11.6 wins/season, Roethlisberger has averaged 9.9 wins/season. Brady's winning percentage was .744, Roethlisberger's is .704. Brady was 10-1 in the playoffs, Roethlisberger is 8-2 (with this post-season to be added). Brady won 3 SBs, Roethlisberer has won 2 (so far).

Keep in mind that much of what is being held against Roethlisberger now (great defense, team wins the games, not him) could (and was) said about Brady when he was younger.

Is Roethlisberger as good, RIGHT NOW, as Brady is? No. Is Roethlisberger very comparable to Brady when he was 28? Absolutely. If you disagree, you are ignoring facts.

 
Someone already posted this, and Pats fans will deny it until the end of time, but Roethlisberger has produced much the same results as Brady has. Brady is 5 years older than Roethlisberger, and its in the last 5 seasons where Brady has put up monster numbers. Maybe that's a product of him getting older, more knowledgeable, more comfortable in the NE system, having better players. Maybe it's a combination of all these things. Look at Brady when he was 28, and look at Ben now. Ben has played 1 more season than Brady did when he was 28 (two, if you dis-count Brady's rookie year, since he didn't play). Ben has averaged slightly fewer yards and TDs (per year) than Brady did to this point in their respective careers, but Ben has completed a slightly higher percentage of his passes and averaged slightly fewer INTs (per year) than Brady has to this point in their respective careers.Wins-Brady averaged 11.6 wins/season, Roethlisberger has averaged 9.9 wins/season. Brady's winning percentage was .744, Roethlisberger's is .704. Brady was 10-1 in the playoffs, Roethlisberger is 8-2 (with this post-season to be added). Brady won 3 SBs, Roethlisberer has won 2 (so far).Keep in mind that much of what is being held against Roethlisberger now (great defense, team wins the games, not him) could (and was) said about Brady when he was younger.Is Roethlisberger as good, RIGHT NOW, as Brady is? No. Is Roethlisberger very comparable to Brady when he was 28? Absolutely. If you disagree, you are ignoring facts.
I wouldn't deny any of this. I totally agree that Roethlisberger is on a hall of fame pace, and I've been saying so for a few years. I think a lot of Pats fans have said this here, actually.
 
If Ben guides the Steelers to a superbowl win this year (especially if he outplays Brady in the championship game), I think he'd have to be in the conversation of being as "clutch" as Brady. Not sure if he should ever be considered a better qb than Brady.
In the conversation?? Let's be clear on this point - Adam Vinatieri was clutch and Brady did a nice job of getting him into position to win the games. How many rings does Brady have in the post Vinatieri era?
Are you disputing that Brady is the most clutch qb in the league right now? Part of what makes a guy clutch is putting your team in a position to win the game. Many qbs would crumble in a similar situation. Vinatieri is extremely clutch but he doesn't have the opportunity if not for Brady's "clutchness". With that said, if the Steelers play the Patriots and Ben outplays Brady then I would put Ben right up there with Brady in terms of "clutchness".
 
If Ben guides the Steelers to a superbowl win this year (especially if he outplays Brady in the championship game), I think he'd have to be in the conversation of being as "clutch" as Brady. Not sure if he should ever be considered a better qb than Brady.
In the conversation?? Let's be clear on this point - Adam Vinatieri was clutch and Brady did a nice job of getting him into position to win the games. How many rings does Brady have in the post Vinatieri era?
Brady has twice thrown TD passes with less than 3 minutes left in a SB to put his team in the lead.
 
I just skimmed through this thread but from a lot of posts I'm seeing people having a hard time separating fantasy football from real football. Rivers and Rodgers better than Roethlisberger? No.

 
I just skimmed through this thread but from a lot of posts I'm seeing people having a hard time separating fantasy football from real football. Rivers and Rodgers better than Roethlisberger? No.
Please explain. Also, still waiting for all these Roethlisberger fans to comment on my Super Bowl post below:
Edit to Add Ben's Superb Super Bowl Stats, since thats what makes him so greatVs Seahawks:Cmp: 9Att: 21Yds: 123TD: 0INT: 2Vs Cardinals:Cmp: 21Att: 30Yds: 256TD: 1INT: 1Roethlisberger was outplayed by the opposing QB in both of his Super Bowl victories. In his epic Super Bowl performances he has combined for 1 TD throwing, 1 TD running, and 3 INT's.Antwawn Randel El has as many passing TD's for the Steelers as Ben does in Super Bowls.Ben Roethlisberger has zero Super Bowl MVP awards.I'm not saying Roethlisberger is crap. But his value is way overblown by Steeler fans.. Brady won his Superbowls because of his system. Roethlisberger won his with great defenses. Superbowls are not what makes Brady great today, as he is a vastly different player today than he was when the Pats were winning Superbowls. My point....winning Superbowls doesn't neccessarily mean any QB should me mentioned as the best in the league, as a lack of them shouldn't disqualify a player. Again....Ben was outplayed by both QB's he faced in each of his Superbowl wins. If you want to use SB's as a reason the guy is great and comparable to Brady today....it would help if he at least outplayed the other guy in the big game.
 
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I realize the article was mostly looking at this year, but looking at their careers overall, I'm not sure Big Ben is light years away from Brady as some make it out to be. If the Steelers go on to win the SB this year (potentially beating NE and Brady in the process), both QBs will have won 3 SB rings. Here are some career numbers to stew over . . .

Brady:

111-32 regular season record as a starter (.776)

95.2 passer rating in the regular season (#4 active)

239.6 passing yds/gm in the regular season (#3 active)

1.8 passing TD/gm in the regular season

0.71 INT/gm in the regular season

14-4 post season record (.778)

3-1 record in the SB (.750)

85.5 passer rating in the post season

228.2 passing yds/gm in the post season

1.56 passing TD/gm in the post season

0.83 INT/gm in the post season

Big Ben:

69-29 regular season record as a starter (.704)

92.5 passer rating (#6 active)

227.3 passing yds/gm (#9 active)

1.45 passing TD/gm in the regular season

0.87 INT/gm in the regular season

8-2 post season record as a starter (.800)

2-0 record in the SB (1.000)

87.2 passer rating in the post season

223.9 passing yds/gm in the post season

1.5 passing TD/gm in the post season

1.2 INT/gm in the post season

Ben has not been as good as Brady overall, but as I mentioned, it's not like he's miles and miles behind, especially if PIT wins the SB again this year.

 
If Ben guides the Steelers to a superbowl win this year (especially if he outplays Brady in the championship game), I think he'd have to be in the conversation of being as "clutch" as Brady. Not sure if he should ever be considered a better qb than Brady.
In the conversation?? Let's be clear on this point - Adam Vinatieri was clutch and Brady did a nice job of getting him into position to win the games. How many rings does Brady have in the post Vinatieri era?
Brady has twice thrown TD passes with less than 3 minutes left in a SB to put his team in the lead.
I don't mean this to be disrespectful, but do you really consider a TD drive that starts with 8 minutes to go in the 4th quarter and happens to end with 2 minutes and 45 seconds to be anywhere near as clutch as a drive that starts with only 2 minutes and 30 seconds?Because, technically, you are correct Brady has twice thrown TD passes with less than 3 minutes left in a SB to give his team a lead. However, neither of those TDs won the game. Against Carolina, Carolina scored to tied the game, and Brady was unable to lead his team to another TD, and Viniateri won the game for the Pats. Against NY, the Giants scored to take the lead, and Brady was unable to lead his team down the field for the tie or the win.Let's be clear, Brady is a clutch QB, however, it is much more difficult to lead your team down the field with under 3 minutes left to score a TD than it is to lead your team down the field when there are 8 minutes left. It's also more difficult to lead your team to a TD with little time left than it is to lead your team to a 40+ yard FG opportunity with little time left.
 
I just skimmed through this thread but from a lot of posts I'm seeing people having a hard time separating fantasy football from real football. Rivers and Rodgers better than Roethlisberger? No.
Please explain. Also, still waiting for all these Roethlisberger fans to comment on my Super Bowl post below:
Edit to Add Ben's Superb Super Bowl Stats, since thats what makes him so greatVs Seahawks:Cmp: 9Att: 21Yds: 123TD: 0INT: 2Vs Cardinals:Cmp: 21Att: 30Yds: 256TD: 1INT: 1Roethlisberger was outplayed by the opposing QB in both of his Super Bowl victories. In his epic Super Bowl performances he has combined for 1 TD throwing, 1 TD running, and 3 INT's.Antwawn Randel El has as many passing TD's for the Steelers as Ben does in Super Bowls.Ben Roethlisberger has zero Super Bowl MVP awards.I'm not saying Roethlisberger is crap. But his value is way overblown by Steeler fans.. Brady won his Superbowls because of his system. Roethlisberger won his with great defenses. Superbowls are not what makes Brady great today, as he is a vastly different player today than he was when the Pats were winning Superbowls. My point....winning Superbowls doesn't neccessarily mean any QB should me mentioned as the best in the league, as a lack of them shouldn't disqualify a player. Again....Ben was outplayed by both QB's he faced in each of his Superbowl wins. If you want to use SB's as a reason the guy is great and comparable to Brady today....it would help if he at least outplayed the other guy in the big game.
Not a Roethlisberger fan, but I'll comment (I already have, actually, but I'll do so again).Roethlisberger is very comparable, AT THIS POINT IN THEIR CAREERS, to Brady, that comparison becomes even closer if the Steelers win the SB this year. Brady didn't put up monster numbers until the last 5 years or so. Will Roethlisberger do so in the next 5 years? Only time will tell, however, Brady wasn't vastly superior to Roethlisberger when he was 28.
 
Quote from Bill Parcells on Roethlisberger in 2004:

"He is the best (quarterback) prospect I have seen in 10 or 15 years," Parcells said Wednesday during a conference call. "I have not seen anybody come in the league like that. The only guy that I can say came in, and the first year started playing like he is playing, is Dan Marino."

"He is out of the pocket throwing 50-yard passes right on the money," Parcells said. "It is not going to be without growing pains, but I think he is in an ideal situation. They have good balance on offense. They are running the ball well. They have a good receiving corps. ... I am telling you, I am very, very impressed, and it is not just because he is an opponent."

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=1901431

 
Also, still waiting for all these Roethlisberger fans to comment on my Super Bowl post below:

Edit to Add Ben's Superb Super Bowl Stats, since thats what makes him so greatVs Seahawks:Cmp: 9Att: 21Yds: 123TD: 0INT: 2Vs Cardinals:Cmp: 21Att: 30Yds: 256TD: 1INT: 1Roethlisberger was outplayed by the opposing QB in both of his Super Bowl victories.
Sometimes you need to look beyond the stat line and actually watch a game or two. Roethlisberger was an integral player down the strecth and through the playoffs in 2005 and the Steelers wouldn't have made to the SB without him. At age 23 he was already the Steelers best offensive player. Admittedly he didn't have the greatest game in SB XL but he did have a rushing TD, made several big plays, including a key block on the Randel El pass to Hines Ward that resulted in a TD. In Super Bowl XLIII Roethlisberger had a very respectable 93.2 passer rating and completed over 70% of his passes. And there is no way you can tell me that a QB that throws a devasting pick-6 in the redzone AND fumbles the ball on their last possession had a better game than a QB that starts his last drive with a 1st and 20 on his own 12 yard line with 2 minutes left and marches his team down the field, throwing the winning TD pass with 35 seconds left on the clock. Drives like that are legendary whereas I am pretty sure Warner would rather forget SB XLIII.As I said, sometimes you need to look beyond box score and actually watch the game.
 
Also, still waiting for all these Roethlisberger fans to comment on my Super Bowl post below:

Edit to Add Ben's Superb Super Bowl Stats, since thats what makes him so greatVs Seahawks:Cmp: 9Att: 21Yds: 123TD: 0INT: 2Vs Cardinals:Cmp: 21Att: 30Yds: 256TD: 1INT: 1Roethlisberger was outplayed by the opposing QB in both of his Super Bowl victories.
Sometimes you need to look beyond the stat line and actually watch a game or two. Roethlisberger was an integral player down the strecth and through the playoffs in 2005 and the Steelers wouldn't have made to the SB without him. At age 23 he was already the Steelers best offensive player. Admittedly he didn't have the greatest game in SB XL but he did have a rushing TD, made several big plays, including a key block on the Randel El pass to Hines Ward that resulted in a TD. In Super Bowl XLIII Roethlisberger had a very respectable 93.2 passer rating and completed over 70% of his passes. And there is no way you can tell me that a QB that throws a devasting pick-6 in the redzone AND fumbles the ball on their last possession had a better game than a QB that starts his last drive with a 1st and 20 on his own 12 yard line with 2 minutes left and marches his team down the field, throwing the winning TD pass with 35 seconds left on the clock. Drives like that are legendary whereas I am pretty sure Warner would rather forget SB XLIII.As I said, sometimes you need to look beyond box score and actually watch the game.
Ben's first Superbowl is regarded by many as the worst Superbowl performance by a winning QB ever. People like to use Superbowls as a measuring stick for QB's and it's a shame because there is so much more that goes into a Superbowl than just a WIN or LOSS for a QB. His second Superbowl again was less than extraordinary. Warner played an impressive game against the best defense in the NFL. Warner needed to win the game for the Cardinals. Roethlisberger needed to manage the game for the Steelers. Ben was lucky enough to have the best defense in the league get him 6 points. Don't get me wrong, his throw to Holmes was clutch. But the only reason he was in a position to make a game winning throw was his defense put him in that position.I agree that you need to look beyond the stat line when evaluating a game. I also think you need to look beyond Superbowl wins when evaluating a quarterback.
 
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I think it is also important to remember that Roethlisberger has had a top 10 defense EVERY SINGLE SEASON he has been in the league. Surely that makes it easier to win games and Super Bowls when you know your defense is gonna be top notch every year. And last year, when the defense struggled down the stretch, look what happened: the Steelers lost five games in a row. Not saying that was all BR's fault, as it wasn't, but it just shows how wins and losses happen as a result of many different things, not just the play of the QB. Granted, having good QB play is always an important component to winning consistently, but you have to look at everything else, too. I also think Roethlisberger would likely put up better passing numbers if he were in more games that were higher scoring (like if the Steelers had an average defense), but that is another conversation.

And while Roethlisberger's drive at the end of the Super Bowl two years ago was tremendous, I think it goes without saying that Warner outplayed him that day. Warner was going against the number 1 defense in the league; Roethlisberger was going against the number 19 defense. 'Nuff said. Yes, Warner threw that pick-6, but other than that, he was nearly flawless. I don't count the fumble against him, because expecting a score with that little time on the clock is unrealistic. It would be like criticizing him for throwing a Hail Mary in that situation. When you need a TD with less than 20 seconds left and are only at midfield, you have to hold on to the ball longer than normal to give your receivers to get downfield for the long heaves. That is why I also don't hold Brady's failed drive at the end of the Super Bowl three years ago against him. Criticizing a QB for not going down and getting a score when there were 30 seconds or less on the clock is just silly, IMO.

 
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Ben's first Superbowl is regarded by many as the worst Superbowl performance by a winning QB ever. People like to use Superbowls as a measuring stick for QB's and it's a shame because there is so much more that goes into a Superbowl than just a WIN or LOSS for a QB.

His second Superbowl again was less than extraordinary. Warner played an impressive game against the best defense in the NFL. Warner needed to win the game for the Cardinals. Roethlisberger needed to manage the game for the Steelers. Ben was lucky enough to have the best defense in the league get him 6 points. Don't get me wrong, his throw to Holmes was clutch. But the only reason he was in a position to make a game winning throw was his defense put him in that position.

I agree that you need to look beyond the stat line when evaluating a game. I also think you need to look beyond Superbowl wins when evaluating a quarterback.
But Warner didn't win the game for the Cardinals. Instead he turned the ball over in the redzone (a 10 or 14 pt swing in the score) and then fumbled on the Cardinals final possession. Both of these turnovers were devastating and I don't think you can ignore them when evaluating a QBs performance.And I don't buy the "he was playing against a tougher defense" argument. Not in the Super Bowl. Both QBs were facing defenses that had been playing great in the playoffs against top competition. And really if you want to play that game you could say that Warner had better WRs and offensive line.

I agree that you have to look beyond the Super Bowl when evaluating a QB. and when you do Roethlisberger still is pretty impressive. Roethlisberger is only 28 years old and in his 7 seasons he has a career passer rating of 92.7, gotten his team to the playoffs 5 times, posted an 8-2 record in the postseason, has won 2 SBs.

I don't thin Roethlisberger is better than Brady but I do think he is pretty good.

 
If Ben guides the Steelers to a superbowl win this year (especially if he outplays Brady in the championship game), I think he'd have to be in the conversation of being as "clutch" as Brady. Not sure if he should ever be considered a better qb than Brady.
In the conversation?? Let's be clear on this point - Adam Vinatieri was clutch and Brady did a nice job of getting him into position to win the games. How many rings does Brady have in the post Vinatieri era?
Brady has twice thrown TD passes with less than 3 minutes left in a SB to put his team in the lead.
I don't mean this to be disrespectful, but do you really consider a TD drive that starts with 8 minutes to go in the 4th quarter and happens to end with 2 minutes and 45 seconds to be anywhere near as clutch as a drive that starts with only 2 minutes and 30 seconds?Because, technically, you are correct Brady has twice thrown TD passes with less than 3 minutes left in a SB to give his team a lead. However, neither of those TDs won the game. Against Carolina, Carolina scored to tied the game, and Brady was unable to lead his team to another TD, and Viniateri won the game for the Pats. Against NY, the Giants scored to take the lead, and Brady was unable to lead his team down the field for the tie or the win.Let's be clear, Brady is a clutch QB, however, it is much more difficult to lead your team down the field with under 3 minutes left to score a TD than it is to lead your team down the field when there are 8 minutes left. It's also more difficult to lead your team to a TD with little time left than it is to lead your team to a 40+ yard FG opportunity with little time left.
No, I never meant to suggest that Brady's clutch SB moments were on par with what Roethlisberger did, but I do feel they were pretty clutch all the same. Also it's not really fair to say he was "unable" to do something he wasn't asked to do. In the tie games his goal was to get the team into field goal position and take care of the ball. That's exactly what he did.
 
Roethlisberger was 22 years old when he played in SB XL. You can't compare his performance in that game to his peers because 99.9% of QBs are never in his position at that young age. What were Rivers, Eli, Aaron Rodgers, Palmer, Romo, etc... doing when they were 22 years old? How good were they? What level were they playing at? They were either too young or not good enough to be in Big Ben's position or anything close to it.

And despite XL, he still finished that playoff run with a QB rating over 100. Three straight playoff wins on the road for a 22 year old QB (a first in NFL history), including outplaying Peyton Manning in Indianapolis against a team many were considering as one of the best of the decade at that point (won their first 13 games), and demolishing a Broncos team in Denver (where they hadn't lost all season and had just defeated the Patriots), completing over 70% of his passes, throwing 275 yards (at 9.5 YPA) and totaling 3 TDs. How many other 22 year old QBs have played like that in the AFC Championship game on the road? Oh, how about none.

As far as XLIII goes, did you watch the game? Roethlisberger was pretty much tremendous when he had to be, his only real error coming on a ball that was tipped by a defensive linemen at the LOS that was intercepted. And it's hard to blame a QB for an INT that is batted into the air at the LOS... it's not like it was a dumb decision, more bad luck if anything. The Steelers didn't pass a lot in the second half when they were up 17-7 and then 20-7 entering the fourth, but that's no knock on Ben. When he was backed up against his own end zone after a great Cardinals punt with the game tightened up, he completed a huge third and long from the one yard line out to the 25 yard line that was ruled back by a holding call in the end zone resulting in a safety, and when he got the ball back again he only orchestrated one of the greatest drives in NFL history, culminating in probably the most beautiful pass and catch for a TD you'll ever see in that spot. Finished the game with a completion percentage of 70%, had 8.5 yards per attempt, and a QB rating over 93. I know, completely mediocre, right? ;) All with his #1 receiver basically serving as a decoy during the game with a significant knee injury.

Comparatively speaking, I don't think many QBs in NFL history have seen the kind of success and level of play Roethlisberger has been at in terms of performance at the same age. If anything, I think Roethlisberger is sort of underrated because of XL, even though I'm not sure most of the QBs he's compared to would have played better during Ben's playoff run when they were 22. He didn't have the luxury of sitting on the bench for three years like Rodgers, or two years like Rivers, or a year like most others. He was thrust into the spotlight at a very early age, and overall played pretty fantastic. The talking heads are going on about Flacco's road playoff wins in his first few years in the league, when he entered this postseason with a career playoff QB rating right around 40. Whereas a guy like Roethlisberger went on the road not having a guy like Ray Rice going off, but instead had a running game that averaged around 2.5 or lower yards per carry in hostile environments (check out Parker and Bettis' stats during that AFC playoff run, specifically in Indy and in Denver... Ben was the entire offense those games) against great teams and played absolutely lights out. If anything, Roethlisberger still doesn't get enough credit, and I think that's sort of the same point KC Joyner is getting at with his article.

 

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