Is Ben Roethlisberger as good as Tom Brady? (4 Viewers)

[Tom Servo]

As to the comments about whether or not Brady could've "survived" in PIT the past few years, I understand where they're coming from (i.e. the Steeler offensive line is horrendous), but I'm not positive it's true. Ben gets it done by being evasive, mobile, and strong enough to shake off some arm tackles while he looks down field to make something happen. Brady avoids the pass rush by making small, but extremely effective steps around the pocket and having a lightning fast release. I understand, however, and accept that Brady's approach might not have worked in PIT the past few years while Roethlisberger is probably the perfect QB for that situation. Either way, Pats fans shouldn't take this as an insult, it's not.

 

[Frenchy Fuqua]

Roethlisberger was 22 years old when he played in SB XL. You can't compare his performance in that game to his peers because 99.9% of QBs are never in his position at that young age. What were Rivers, Eli, Aaron Rodgers, Palmer, Romo, etc... doing when they were 22 years old? How good were they? What level were they playing at? They were either too young or not good enough to be in Big Ben's position or anything close to it. And despite XL, he still finished that playoff run with a QB rating over 100. Three straight playoff wins on the road for a 22 year old QB (a first in NFL history), including outplaying Peyton Manning in Indianapolis against a team many were considering as one of the best of the decade at that point (won their first 13 games), and demolishing a Broncos team in Denver (where they hadn't lost all season and had just defeated the Patriots), completing over 70% of his passes, throwing 275 yards (at 9.5 YPA) and totaling 3 TDs. How many other 22 year old QBs have played like that in the AFC Championship game on the road? Oh, how about none. As far as XLIII goes, did you watch the game? Roethlisberger was pretty much tremendous when he had to be, his only real error coming on a ball that was tipped by a defensive linemen at the LOS that was intercepted. And it's hard to blame a QB for an INT that is batted into the air at the LOS... it's not like it was a dumb decision, more bad luck if anything. The Steelers didn't pass a lot in the second half when they were up 17-7 and then 20-7 entering the fourth, but that's no knock on Ben. When he was backed up against his own end zone after a great Cardinals punt with the game tightened up, he completed a huge third and long from the one yard line out to the 25 yard line that was ruled back by a holding call in the end zone resulting in a safety, and when he got the ball back again he only orchestrated one of the greatest drives in NFL history, culminating in probably the most beautiful pass and catch for a TD you'll ever see in that spot. Finished the game with a completion percentage of 70%, had 8.5 yards per attempt, and a QB rating over 93. I know, completely mediocre, right? All with his #1 receiver basically serving as a decoy during the game with a significant knee injury. Comparatively speaking, I don't think many QBs in NFL history have seen the kind of success and level of play Roethlisberger has been at in terms of performance at the same age. If anything, I think Roethlisberger is sort of underrated because of XL, even though I'm not sure most of the QBs he's compared to would have played better during Ben's playoff run when they were 22. He didn't have the luxury of sitting on the bench for three years like Rodgers, or two years like Rivers, or a year like most others. He was thrust into the spotlight at a very early age, and overall played pretty fantastic. The talking heads are going on about Flacco's road playoff wins in his first few years in the league, when he entered this postseason with a career playoff QB rating right around 40. Whereas a guy like Roethlisberger went on the road not having a guy like Ray Rice going off, but instead had a running game that averaged around 2.5 or lower yards per carry in hostile environments (check out Parker and Bettis' stats during that AFC playoff run, specifically in Indy and in Denver... Ben was the entire offense those games) against great teams and played absolutely lights out. If anything, Roethlisberger still doesn't get enough credit, and I think that's sort of the same point KC Joyner is getting at with his article.

Couldn't have stated it better.Also worth noting Ben owns two of the most important plays in Steelers, if not NFL history.1) Best TD pass -SB XLIII2) Best tackle - Nick Harper, Division Rd of XL title runBrady's 3 rings are certainly well deserved but have also been greatly assisted:1) Bledsoe bailing him out in Pittsburgh 2001 AFC Championship.2) Tuck rule.3) Vinatieri4) Spy gate

 

[Godsbrother]

Also worth noting Ben owns two of the most important plays in Steelers, if not NFL history.1) Best TD pass -SB XLIII

Immaculate Reception down?

 

[David Yudkin]

Also worth noting Ben owns two of the most important plays in Steelers, if not NFL history.1) Best TD pass -SB XLIII

Immaculate Reception down?

Not in the SB.

 

[The Westin]

Roethlisberger was 22 years old when he played in SB XL. You can't compare his performance in that game to his peers because 99.9% of QBs are never in his position at that young age. What were Rivers, Eli, Aaron Rodgers, Palmer, Romo, etc... doing when they were 22 years old? How good were they? What level were they playing at? They were either too young or not good enough to be in Big Ben's position or anything close to it. And despite XL, he still finished that playoff run with a QB rating over 100. Three straight playoff wins on the road for a 22 year old QB (a first in NFL history), including outplaying Peyton Manning in Indianapolis against a team many were considering as one of the best of the decade at that point (won their first 13 games), and demolishing a Broncos team in Denver (where they hadn't lost all season and had just defeated the Patriots), completing over 70% of his passes, throwing 275 yards (at 9.5 YPA) and totaling 3 TDs. How many other 22 year old QBs have played like that in the AFC Championship game on the road? Oh, how about none. As far as XLIII goes, did you watch the game? Roethlisberger was pretty much tremendous when he had to be, his only real error coming on a ball that was tipped by a defensive linemen at the LOS that was intercepted. And it's hard to blame a QB for an INT that is batted into the air at the LOS... it's not like it was a dumb decision, more bad luck if anything. The Steelers didn't pass a lot in the second half when they were up 17-7 and then 20-7 entering the fourth, but that's no knock on Ben. When he was backed up against his own end zone after a great Cardinals punt with the game tightened up, he completed a huge third and long from the one yard line out to the 25 yard line that was ruled back by a holding call in the end zone resulting in a safety, and when he got the ball back again he only orchestrated one of the greatest drives in NFL history, culminating in probably the most beautiful pass and catch for a TD you'll ever see in that spot. Finished the game with a completion percentage of 70%, had 8.5 yards per attempt, and a QB rating over 93. I know, completely mediocre, right? All with his #1 receiver basically serving as a decoy during the game with a significant knee injury. Comparatively speaking, I don't think many QBs in NFL history have seen the kind of success and level of play Roethlisberger has been at in terms of performance at the same age. If anything, I think Roethlisberger is sort of underrated because of XL, even though I'm not sure most of the QBs he's compared to would have played better during Ben's playoff run when they were 22. He didn't have the luxury of sitting on the bench for three years like Rodgers, or two years like Rivers, or a year like most others. He was thrust into the spotlight at a very early age, and overall played pretty fantastic. The talking heads are going on about Flacco's road playoff wins in his first few years in the league, when he entered this postseason with a career playoff QB rating right around 40. Whereas a guy like Roethlisberger went on the road not having a guy like Ray Rice going off, but instead had a running game that averaged around 2.5 or lower yards per carry in hostile environments (check out Parker and Bettis' stats during that AFC playoff run, specifically in Indy and in Denver... Ben was the entire offense those games) against great teams and played absolutely lights out. If anything, Roethlisberger still doesn't get enough credit, and I think that's sort of the same point KC Joyner is getting at with his article.

In regards to his first Super Bowl...you're making excuses for the guy's poor play. This is where I have a problem. You make excuses for his poor play in the game (his age), while at the same time using that same game as evidence of his greatness....soley based on the fact that it makes his number of Super Bowl wins higher. You ignore his play, and instead focus on the result. The result was a win for the Pittsburgh Steelers, not Ben Roethlisberger.The second Superbowl...he was outplayed by Kurt Warner. The fumble was already explained by another poster. The interception was a poor throw in an otherwise great day against the best defense in the NFL. Warner didn't have the luxury of having to manage the game to win like Ben did. Warner had to win it. Roethlisberger, for his entire career, has had the luxury and comfort of always being able to fall back on having the best defense in the league.

 

[parrot]

1) Bledsoe bailing him out in Pittsburgh 2001 AFC Championship.

Some quality revisionist history here; Brady was 12/18 for 115 yards when he was knocked out in the second quarter. Bledsoe was 10/21 for 102 yards the rest of the way.

 

[Road Warriors]

Roethlisberger was 22 years old when he played in SB XL. You can't compare his performance in that game to his peers because 99.9% of QBs are never in his position at that young age. What were Rivers, Eli, Aaron Rodgers, Palmer, Romo, etc... doing when they were 22 years old? How good were they? What level were they playing at? They were either too young or not good enough to be in Big Ben's position or anything close to it. And despite XL, he still finished that playoff run with a QB rating over 100. Three straight playoff wins on the road for a 22 year old QB (a first in NFL history), including outplaying Peyton Manning in Indianapolis against a team many were considering as one of the best of the decade at that point (won their first 13 games), and demolishing a Broncos team in Denver (where they hadn't lost all season and had just defeated the Patriots), completing over 70% of his passes, throwing 275 yards (at 9.5 YPA) and totaling 3 TDs. How many other 22 year old QBs have played like that in the AFC Championship game on the road? Oh, how about none. As far as XLIII goes, did you watch the game? Roethlisberger was pretty much tremendous when he had to be, his only real error coming on a ball that was tipped by a defensive linemen at the LOS that was intercepted. And it's hard to blame a QB for an INT that is batted into the air at the LOS... it's not like it was a dumb decision, more bad luck if anything. The Steelers didn't pass a lot in the second half when they were up 17-7 and then 20-7 entering the fourth, but that's no knock on Ben. When he was backed up against his own end zone after a great Cardinals punt with the game tightened up, he completed a huge third and long from the one yard line out to the 25 yard line that was ruled back by a holding call in the end zone resulting in a safety, and when he got the ball back again he only orchestrated one of the greatest drives in NFL history, culminating in probably the most beautiful pass and catch for a TD you'll ever see in that spot. Finished the game with a completion percentage of 70%, had 8.5 yards per attempt, and a QB rating over 93. I know, completely mediocre, right? All with his #1 receiver basically serving as a decoy during the game with a significant knee injury. Comparatively speaking, I don't think many QBs in NFL history have seen the kind of success and level of play Roethlisberger has been at in terms of performance at the same age. If anything, I think Roethlisberger is sort of underrated because of XL, even though I'm not sure most of the QBs he's compared to would have played better during Ben's playoff run when they were 22. He didn't have the luxury of sitting on the bench for three years like Rodgers, or two years like Rivers, or a year like most others. He was thrust into the spotlight at a very early age, and overall played pretty fantastic. The talking heads are going on about Flacco's road playoff wins in his first few years in the league, when he entered this postseason with a career playoff QB rating right around 40. Whereas a guy like Roethlisberger went on the road not having a guy like Ray Rice going off, but instead had a running game that averaged around 2.5 or lower yards per carry in hostile environments (check out Parker and Bettis' stats during that AFC playoff run, specifically in Indy and in Denver... Ben was the entire offense those games) against great teams and played absolutely lights out. If anything, Roethlisberger still doesn't get enough credit, and I think that's sort of the same point KC Joyner is getting at with his article.

In regards to his first Super Bowl...you're making excuses for the guy's poor play. This is where I have a problem. You make excuses for his poor play in the game (his age), while at the same time using that same game as evidence of his greatness....soley based on the fact that it makes his number of Super Bowl wins higher. You ignore his play, and instead focus on the result. The result was a win for the Pittsburgh Steelers, not Ben Roethlisberger.The second Superbowl...he was outplayed by Kurt Warner. The fumble was already explained by another poster. The interception was a poor throw in an otherwise great day against the best defense in the NFL. Warner didn't have the luxury of having to manage the game to win like Ben did. Warner had to win it. Roethlisberger, for his entire career, has had the luxury and comfort of always being able to fall back on having the best defense in the league.

This is really starting to look just like a Brady / Manning thread. I would say that at this point of his career, Roethlisberger has put together one of the better starts to a career ever, and is very close to where Brady was circa 2005. Can he take the next step and turn PIT from an efficient offense to a top tier offense? That remains to be seen, but that is the transition we've seen out of Brady and the Patriots offense over the past 5 years, and what has given more credence to the Brady side of the "this generation's QB" debate. I don't know that PIT and Roethlisberger will make that transition, but not because of any shortcomings from Roethlisberger. I doubt that PIT will ever fully transform to a pass dominant offense that throws 500+ times a year ( he's done it only 1 time so far ), so the opportunity to post monster stats to compare with his contemporaries may not be there.

 

[Evilgrin 72]

Roethlisberger was 22 years old when he played in SB XL. You can't compare his performance in that game to his peers because 99.9% of QBs are never in his position at that young age. What were Rivers, Eli, Aaron Rodgers, Palmer, Romo, etc... doing when they were 22 years old? How good were they? What level were they playing at? They were either too young or not good enough to be in Big Ben's position or anything close to it. And despite XL, he still finished that playoff run with a QB rating over 100. Three straight playoff wins on the road for a 22 year old QB (a first in NFL history), including outplaying Peyton Manning in Indianapolis against a team many were considering as one of the best of the decade at that point (won their first 13 games), and demolishing a Broncos team in Denver (where they hadn't lost all season and had just defeated the Patriots), completing over 70% of his passes, throwing 275 yards (at 9.5 YPA) and totaling 3 TDs. How many other 22 year old QBs have played like that in the AFC Championship game on the road? Oh, how about none. As far as XLIII goes, did you watch the game? Roethlisberger was pretty much tremendous when he had to be, his only real error coming on a ball that was tipped by a defensive linemen at the LOS that was intercepted. And it's hard to blame a QB for an INT that is batted into the air at the LOS... it's not like it was a dumb decision, more bad luck if anything. The Steelers didn't pass a lot in the second half when they were up 17-7 and then 20-7 entering the fourth, but that's no knock on Ben. When he was backed up against his own end zone after a great Cardinals punt with the game tightened up, he completed a huge third and long from the one yard line out to the 25 yard line that was ruled back by a holding call in the end zone resulting in a safety, and when he got the ball back again he only orchestrated one of the greatest drives in NFL history, culminating in probably the most beautiful pass and catch for a TD you'll ever see in that spot. Finished the game with a completion percentage of 70%, had 8.5 yards per attempt, and a QB rating over 93. I know, completely mediocre, right? All with his #1 receiver basically serving as a decoy during the game with a significant knee injury. Comparatively speaking, I don't think many QBs in NFL history have seen the kind of success and level of play Roethlisberger has been at in terms of performance at the same age. If anything, I think Roethlisberger is sort of underrated because of XL, even though I'm not sure most of the QBs he's compared to would have played better during Ben's playoff run when they were 22. He didn't have the luxury of sitting on the bench for three years like Rodgers, or two years like Rivers, or a year like most others. He was thrust into the spotlight at a very early age, and overall played pretty fantastic. The talking heads are going on about Flacco's road playoff wins in his first few years in the league, when he entered this postseason with a career playoff QB rating right around 40. Whereas a guy like Roethlisberger went on the road not having a guy like Ray Rice going off, but instead had a running game that averaged around 2.5 or lower yards per carry in hostile environments (check out Parker and Bettis' stats during that AFC playoff run, specifically in Indy and in Denver... Ben was the entire offense those games) against great teams and played absolutely lights out. If anything, Roethlisberger still doesn't get enough credit, and I think that's sort of the same point KC Joyner is getting at with his article.

In regards to his first Super Bowl...you're making excuses for the guy's poor play. This is where I have a problem. You make excuses for his poor play in the game (his age), while at the same time using that same game as evidence of his greatness....soley based on the fact that it makes his number of Super Bowl wins higher. You ignore his play, and instead focus on the result. The result was a win for the Pittsburgh Steelers, not Ben Roethlisberger.The second Superbowl...he was outplayed by Kurt Warner. The fumble was already explained by another poster. The interception was a poor throw in an otherwise great day against the best defense in the NFL. Warner didn't have the luxury of having to manage the game to win like Ben did. Warner had to win it. Roethlisberger, for his entire career, has had the luxury and comfort of always being able to fall back on having the best defense in the league.

He didn't have that luxury in SB XLIII. The best defense in the league spit the bit late and blew a 20-7 4th quarter lead. Arizona had 400+ yards of offense in that game, and Pittsburgh rushed for 58 yards on 25 carries. The defense did not win this game for them, and neither did the running game. This game was squarely on Ben's shoulders to win or lose. That's the exact kind of situation his detractors always wanted to see him in. About 5,000 times on this board alone, I read about how "Ben waltzed into the perfect situation, all he has to do is manage the game, not turn the ball over, and rely on the running game and the defense. Until he has to put the team on his back and win games for them with his arm, he'll never be a great QB, he's Dilfer 2.0." And so on. So, in SB 43, the rest of the world finally got to see what we already knew : the guy CAN win games on his own with his passing. He was put in the exact situation all the naysayers wanted to see him in, only on the biggest stage possible, and with as much pressure as there possibly can be in sports. Had he thrown a pick or taken a sack on 4th down, all we would have heard was : "See ?! That's what happens when Ben has to win the game on his own merits as a passer....."But he didn't. He put the team on his back and led one of the great drives in NFL history. 8 plays, 78 yards for the winning TD in 2:02, capped by one of the best throws in NFL history, a pinpoint ball over 3 defenders, thrown in the only place it could have been thrown and been caught but not picked. It was a virtuoso performance when it mattered most, and he should have been the MVP. I don't think it's fair to say he was outplayed by Warner, and to say Warner had to win it while Ben was able to sit back and manage the game is ludicrous.

 

[Evilgrin 72]

Roethlisberger was 22 years old when he played in SB XL. You can't compare his performance in that game to his peers because 99.9% of QBs are never in his position at that young age. What were Rivers, Eli, Aaron Rodgers, Palmer, Romo, etc... doing when they were 22 years old? How good were they? What level were they playing at? They were either too young or not good enough to be in Big Ben's position or anything close to it. And despite XL, he still finished that playoff run with a QB rating over 100. Three straight playoff wins on the road for a 22 year old QB (a first in NFL history), including outplaying Peyton Manning in Indianapolis against a team many were considering as one of the best of the decade at that point (won their first 13 games), and demolishing a Broncos team in Denver (where they hadn't lost all season and had just defeated the Patriots), completing over 70% of his passes, throwing 275 yards (at 9.5 YPA) and totaling 3 TDs. How many other 22 year old QBs have played like that in the AFC Championship game on the road? Oh, how about none. As far as XLIII goes, did you watch the game? Roethlisberger was pretty much tremendous when he had to be, his only real error coming on a ball that was tipped by a defensive linemen at the LOS that was intercepted. And it's hard to blame a QB for an INT that is batted into the air at the LOS... it's not like it was a dumb decision, more bad luck if anything. The Steelers didn't pass a lot in the second half when they were up 17-7 and then 20-7 entering the fourth, but that's no knock on Ben. When he was backed up against his own end zone after a great Cardinals punt with the game tightened up, he completed a huge third and long from the one yard line out to the 25 yard line that was ruled back by a holding call in the end zone resulting in a safety, and when he got the ball back again he only orchestrated one of the greatest drives in NFL history, culminating in probably the most beautiful pass and catch for a TD you'll ever see in that spot. Finished the game with a completion percentage of 70%, had 8.5 yards per attempt, and a QB rating over 93. I know, completely mediocre, right? All with his #1 receiver basically serving as a decoy during the game with a significant knee injury. Comparatively speaking, I don't think many QBs in NFL history have seen the kind of success and level of play Roethlisberger has been at in terms of performance at the same age. If anything, I think Roethlisberger is sort of underrated because of XL, even though I'm not sure most of the QBs he's compared to would have played better during Ben's playoff run when they were 22. He didn't have the luxury of sitting on the bench for three years like Rodgers, or two years like Rivers, or a year like most others. He was thrust into the spotlight at a very early age, and overall played pretty fantastic. The talking heads are going on about Flacco's road playoff wins in his first few years in the league, when he entered this postseason with a career playoff QB rating right around 40. Whereas a guy like Roethlisberger went on the road not having a guy like Ray Rice going off, but instead had a running game that averaged around 2.5 or lower yards per carry in hostile environments (check out Parker and Bettis' stats during that AFC playoff run, specifically in Indy and in Denver... Ben was the entire offense those games) against great teams and played absolutely lights out. If anything, Roethlisberger still doesn't get enough credit, and I think that's sort of the same point KC Joyner is getting at with his article.

In regards to his first Super Bowl...you're making excuses for the guy's poor play. This is where I have a problem. You make excuses for his poor play in the game (his age), while at the same time using that same game as evidence of his greatness....soley based on the fact that it makes his number of Super Bowl wins higher. You ignore his play, and instead focus on the result. The result was a win for the Pittsburgh Steelers, not Ben Roethlisberger.The second Superbowl...he was outplayed by Kurt Warner. The fumble was already explained by another poster. The interception was a poor throw in an otherwise great day against the best defense in the NFL. Warner didn't have the luxury of having to manage the game to win like Ben did. Warner had to win it. Roethlisberger, for his entire career, has had the luxury and comfort of always being able to fall back on having the best defense in the league.

This is really starting to look just like a Brady / Manning thread. I would say that at this point of his career, Roethlisberger has put together one of the better starts to a career ever, and is very close to where Brady was circa 2005. Can he take the next step and turn PIT from an efficient offense to a top tier offense? That remains to be seen, but that is the transition we've seen out of Brady and the Patriots offense over the past 5 years, and what has given more credence to the Brady side of the "this generation's QB" debate. I don't know that PIT and Roethlisberger will make that transition, but not because of any shortcomings from Roethlisberger. I doubt that PIT will ever fully transform to a pass dominant offense that throws 500+ times a year ( he's done it only 1 time so far ), so the opportunity to post monster stats to compare with his contemporaries may not be there.

Very Hit the nail on the head with every point you make here. Couldn't agree more.

 

[The Westin]

Roethlisberger was 22 years old when he played in SB XL. You can't compare his performance in that game to his peers because 99.9% of QBs are never in his position at that young age. What were Rivers, Eli, Aaron Rodgers, Palmer, Romo, etc... doing when they were 22 years old? How good were they? What level were they playing at? They were either too young or not good enough to be in Big Ben's position or anything close to it. And despite XL, he still finished that playoff run with a QB rating over 100. Three straight playoff wins on the road for a 22 year old QB (a first in NFL history), including outplaying Peyton Manning in Indianapolis against a team many were considering as one of the best of the decade at that point (won their first 13 games), and demolishing a Broncos team in Denver (where they hadn't lost all season and had just defeated the Patriots), completing over 70% of his passes, throwing 275 yards (at 9.5 YPA) and totaling 3 TDs. How many other 22 year old QBs have played like that in the AFC Championship game on the road? Oh, how about none. As far as XLIII goes, did you watch the game? Roethlisberger was pretty much tremendous when he had to be, his only real error coming on a ball that was tipped by a defensive linemen at the LOS that was intercepted. And it's hard to blame a QB for an INT that is batted into the air at the LOS... it's not like it was a dumb decision, more bad luck if anything. The Steelers didn't pass a lot in the second half when they were up 17-7 and then 20-7 entering the fourth, but that's no knock on Ben. When he was backed up against his own end zone after a great Cardinals punt with the game tightened up, he completed a huge third and long from the one yard line out to the 25 yard line that was ruled back by a holding call in the end zone resulting in a safety, and when he got the ball back again he only orchestrated one of the greatest drives in NFL history, culminating in probably the most beautiful pass and catch for a TD you'll ever see in that spot. Finished the game with a completion percentage of 70%, had 8.5 yards per attempt, and a QB rating over 93. I know, completely mediocre, right? All with his #1 receiver basically serving as a decoy during the game with a significant knee injury. Comparatively speaking, I don't think many QBs in NFL history have seen the kind of success and level of play Roethlisberger has been at in terms of performance at the same age. If anything, I think Roethlisberger is sort of underrated because of XL, even though I'm not sure most of the QBs he's compared to would have played better during Ben's playoff run when they were 22. He didn't have the luxury of sitting on the bench for three years like Rodgers, or two years like Rivers, or a year like most others. He was thrust into the spotlight at a very early age, and overall played pretty fantastic. The talking heads are going on about Flacco's road playoff wins in his first few years in the league, when he entered this postseason with a career playoff QB rating right around 40. Whereas a guy like Roethlisberger went on the road not having a guy like Ray Rice going off, but instead had a running game that averaged around 2.5 or lower yards per carry in hostile environments (check out Parker and Bettis' stats during that AFC playoff run, specifically in Indy and in Denver... Ben was the entire offense those games) against great teams and played absolutely lights out. If anything, Roethlisberger still doesn't get enough credit, and I think that's sort of the same point KC Joyner is getting at with his article.

In regards to his first Super Bowl...you're making excuses for the guy's poor play. This is where I have a problem. You make excuses for his poor play in the game (his age), while at the same time using that same game as evidence of his greatness....soley based on the fact that it makes his number of Super Bowl wins higher. You ignore his play, and instead focus on the result. The result was a win for the Pittsburgh Steelers, not Ben Roethlisberger.The second Superbowl...he was outplayed by Kurt Warner. The fumble was already explained by another poster. The interception was a poor throw in an otherwise great day against the best defense in the NFL. Warner didn't have the luxury of having to manage the game to win like Ben did. Warner had to win it. Roethlisberger, for his entire career, has had the luxury and comfort of always being able to fall back on having the best defense in the league.

This is really starting to look just like a Brady / Manning thread.

I'll agree with you there, and I never get involved in those debates. We're just going in circles here.

 

[Godsbrother]

In regards to his first Super Bowl...you're making excuses for the guy's poor play. This is where I have a problem. You make excuses for his poor play in the game (his age), while at the same time using that same game as evidence of his greatness....soley based on the fact that it makes his number of Super Bowl wins higher. You ignore his play, and instead focus on the result. The result was a win for the Pittsburgh Steelers, not Ben Roethlisberger.

We have acknoweldged he didn't play a great game in SB XL but he made several key plays that helped win the game. We think Ben is great because of his performance during the regular season and most of his post season. You focus on this one game.

The second Superbowl...he was outplayed by Kurt Warner. The fumble was already explained by another poster. The interception was a poor throw in an otherwise great day against the best defense in the NFL. Warner didn't have the luxury of having to manage the game to win like Ben did. Warner had to win it. Roethlisberger, for his entire career, has had the luxury and comfort of always being able to fall back on having the best defense in the league.

You keep saying that Warner outplayed Roethlisberger but he made a critical pick-6 that was a 10 to 14 point swing in the score. And I am not sure why you excuse the fumble that came while the game was still on the line. Warner coughing the ball up is not the same as throwing a hail mary pick. Warner could have thrown the ball away to avoid the sack or at least protected the ball better and he made another critical mistake. And lets not forget that he had fumbled earlier in the game but it was ruled as an imcomplete pass due to the tuck rule. He got a break when he should have been protecting the ball better.And saying Roethlisberger managed SB XLIII is ridiculous. Ben was facing a 1st and 20 on his own 12 yard line and marched the team down the field to score the winning TD.

Look I understand you don't like the guy but give him some credit. The Steelers had great defenses, better running games and much better offensive lines during the O'Donnell, Stewart and Maddox years but never won a championship. The fact that they won 2 SBs in 4 years under Roethlisbeger is not a coincidence.

 

[Copeman]

The question should be is Tom Brady as good as Ben Roethlisberger?

 

[Evilgrin 72]

You keep saying that Warner outplayed Roethlisberger but he made a critical pick-6 that was a 10 to 14 point swing in the score. And I am not sure why you excuse the fumble that came while the game was still on the line. Warner coughing the ball up is not the same as throwing a hail mary pick. Warner could have thrown the ball away to avoid the sack or at least protected the ball better and he made another critical mistake. And lets not forget that he had fumbled earlier in the game but it was ruled as an imcomplete pass due to the tuck rule. He got a break when he should have been protecting the ball better.

Warner also fumbled a third time in that game, but Edgerrin James recovered.

 

[Godsbrother]

You keep saying that Warner outplayed Roethlisberger but he made a critical pick-6 that was a 10 to 14 point swing in the score. And I am not sure why you excuse the fumble that came while the game was still on the line. Warner coughing the ball up is not the same as throwing a hail mary pick. Warner could have thrown the ball away to avoid the sack or at least protected the ball better and he made another critical mistake. And lets not forget that he had fumbled earlier in the game but it was ruled as an imcomplete pass due to the tuck rule. He got a break when he should have been protecting the ball better.

Warner also fumbled a third time in that game, but Edgerrin James recovered.

Good catch, EG. Of course fumbling and throwing pick-6's are rarely important in big games ...

 

[Frenchy Fuqua]

1) Bledsoe bailing him out in Pittsburgh 2001 AFC Championship.

Some quality revisionist history here; Brady was 12/18 for 115 yards when he was knocked out in the second quarter. Bledsoe was 10/21 for 102 yards the rest of the way.

The point being if Bledsoe hadn't come in and thrown a key TD pass Tom Brady would not have had the opportunity to win his first Super Bowl. Bledsoe earned that win, one that Brady is often credited for.

 

[Evilgrin 72]

You keep saying that Warner outplayed Roethlisberger but he made a critical pick-6 that was a 10 to 14 point swing in the score. And I am not sure why you excuse the fumble that came while the game was still on the line. Warner coughing the ball up is not the same as throwing a hail mary pick. Warner could have thrown the ball away to avoid the sack or at least protected the ball better and he made another critical mistake. And lets not forget that he had fumbled earlier in the game but it was ruled as an imcomplete pass due to the tuck rule. He got a break when he should have been protecting the ball better.

Warner also fumbled a third time in that game, but Edgerrin James recovered.

Good catch, EG. Of course fumbling and throwing pick-6's are rarely important in big games ...

Warner's stats on the game were very good, and I'm not saying he played a poor game. He made some clutch throws. But his numbers were also padded by a huge catch and run by Fitzgerald on a defensive breakdown, while Ben probably had 40-50 passing yards called back on holding penalties. Also had a rushing TD reversed when he came up an inch short of the goal line. Essentially, had it not been for a few key plays, those stats COULD have looked a lot different. Then again, if my aunt had balls, she'd be my uncle.Bottom line, though, is that Warner, despite slinging it all over the field that day, could have cost the Cardinals a title with the last fumble and especially the pick 6 that ended the first half. We'll never know how the game would have played out had that game been 10-10 or 14-10 Cards going into the locker room (with AZ getting the ball to start the second half) but we can surmise their chances of winning would have been substantially greater than the 0% that ultimately resulted. And Warner made the single biggest negative play for the Cardinals that day, while Roethlisberger, when given the opportunity, made the play that resulted in the winning margin. For that alone, I don't think it's fair to say Warner outplayed him, stats or no stats. When all is said and done, I'll take Ben's day over Kurt's.

 

[Bayhawks]

If Ben guides the Steelers to a superbowl win this year (especially if he outplays Brady in the championship game), I think he'd have to be in the conversation of being as "clutch" as Brady. Not sure if he should ever be considered a better qb than Brady.

In the conversation?? Let's be clear on this point - Adam Vinatieri was clutch and Brady did a nice job of getting him into position to win the games. How many rings does Brady have in the post Vinatieri era?

Brady has twice thrown TD passes with less than 3 minutes left in a SB to put his team in the lead.

I don't mean this to be disrespectful, but do you really consider a TD drive that starts with 8 minutes to go in the 4th quarter and happens to end with 2 minutes and 45 seconds to be anywhere near as clutch as a drive that starts with only 2 minutes and 30 seconds?Because, technically, you are correct Brady has twice thrown TD passes with less than 3 minutes left in a SB to give his team a lead. However, neither of those TDs won the game. Against Carolina, Carolina scored to tied the game, and Brady was unable to lead his team to another TD, and Viniateri won the game for the Pats. Against NY, the Giants scored to take the lead, and Brady was unable to lead his team down the field for the tie or the win.Let's be clear, Brady is a clutch QB, however, it is much more difficult to lead your team down the field with under 3 minutes left to score a TD than it is to lead your team down the field when there are 8 minutes left. It's also more difficult to lead your team to a TD with little time left than it is to lead your team to a 40+ yard FG opportunity with little time left.

No, I never meant to suggest that Brady's clutch SB moments were on par with what Roethlisberger did, but I do feel they were pretty clutch all the same. Also it's not really fair to say he was "unable" to do something he wasn't asked to do. In the tie games his goal was to get the team into field goal position and take care of the ball. That's exactly what he did.

In the SB XLII, he got the ball with 35 seconds to go & all 3 timeouts. He needed to go 44 yards to get to the Giants 30, which would have set up a 48 yard field goal. I think it's perfectly fair to say he was "unable" to do that. With regards to the Carolina SB, I suppose you're right.

 

[The Westin]

In regards to his first Super Bowl...you're making excuses for the guy's poor play. This is where I have a problem. You make excuses for his poor play in the game (his age), while at the same time using that same game as evidence of his greatness....soley based on the fact that it makes his number of Super Bowl wins higher. You ignore his play, and instead focus on the result. The result was a win for the Pittsburgh Steelers, not Ben Roethlisberger.

We have acknoweldged he didn't play a great game in SB XL but he made several key plays that helped win the game. We think Ben is great because of his performance during the regular season and most of his post season. You focus on this one game.

The second Superbowl...he was outplayed by Kurt Warner. The fumble was already explained by another poster. The interception was a poor throw in an otherwise great day against the best defense in the NFL. Warner didn't have the luxury of having to manage the game to win like Ben did. Warner had to win it. Roethlisberger, for his entire career, has had the luxury and comfort of always being able to fall back on having the best defense in the league.

You keep saying that Warner outplayed Roethlisberger but he made a critical pick-6 that was a 10 to 14 point swing in the score. And I am not sure why you excuse the fumble that came while the game was still on the line. Warner coughing the ball up is not the same as throwing a hail mary pick. Warner could have thrown the ball away to avoid the sack or at least protected the ball better and he made another critical mistake. And lets not forget that he had fumbled earlier in the game but it was ruled as an imcomplete pass due to the tuck rule. He got a break when he should have been protecting the ball better.And saying Roethlisberger managed SB XLIII is ridiculous. Ben was facing a 1st and 20 on his own 12 yard line and marched the team down the field to score the winning TD.

Look I understand you don't like the guy but give him some credit. The Steelers had great defenses, better running games and much better offensive lines during the O'Donnell, Stewart and Maddox years but never won a championship. The fact that they won 2 SBs in 4 years under Roethlisbeger is not a coincidence.

I don't doubt the guy is a good quarterback. I don't doubt the guy is clutch. His pass in that Superbowl was flawless, I'll of course I give him credit for that. I will say Warner had a much tougher task, against a far superior opponent and put up more offensive points than Ben. I will acknowledge Kurt had a costly turnover, I'm not minimizing the importance of it. It was a poor throw in an important situation. It's because of that throw that Pittsburgh scored more points that day. However, in my opinion, Kurt played one hell of a game against the best defense in the league. Ben had a great drive against an average defense.I don't doubt the guy is a good regular season and playoff quarterback. I think his first Superbowl was convenience of being on the right team at the right time. Most would not dispute this. His second one he earned, although was outplayed by Warner.

My problem isn't directly with Ben. It's that his Superbowls are being used as a measuring stick, when there is much much more that goes into a Superbowl than just quarterback play and Ben Roethlisberger is one of the best examples of that. He's being discussed in the same sentence as Brady. That is absolutely ridiculous to me. He's good, that's it. He's not Brady, he's not Manning. He's not even in the discussion.

I am disgusted that I even posted in this thread once, let alone as many times as I have. I just can't believe somebody wrote an article about this. I know you guys are Steelers fans, but you have to be kidding me, right? I mean...are we being serious here? Ben Roethlisberger....really?

 

[David Yudkin]

1) Bledsoe bailing him out in Pittsburgh 2001 AFC Championship.

Some quality revisionist history here; Brady was 12/18 for 115 yards when he was knocked out in the second quarter. Bledsoe was 10/21 for 102 yards the rest of the way.

The point being if Bledsoe hadn't come in and thrown a key TD pass Tom Brady would not have had the opportunity to win his first Super Bowl. Bledsoe earned that win, one that Brady is often credited for.

Based on this logic, the first of Roethlisberger's SB titles was also assisted, given that Charlie Batch led the Steelers to 2 key victories in the regular season in 2005 (or the team would have missed the playoffs).

 

[Fensalk]

Almost feels like one of those jinx threads. Watch him go out and have his worst game as a pro this weekend.

 

[parrot]

In the SB XLII, he got the ball with 35 seconds to go & all 3 timeouts. He needed to go 44 yards to get to the Giants 30, which would have set up a 48 yard field goal. I think it's perfectly fair to say he was "unable" to do that. With regards to the Carolina SB, I suppose you're right.

I misread that you were speaking specifically of the Giants game. You're exactly right, he was unable to come through in that case. My bad.

 

[David Yudkin]

In the SB XLII, he got the ball with 35 seconds to go & all 3 timeouts. He needed to go 44 yards to get to the Giants 30, which would have set up a 48 yard field goal. I think it's perfectly fair to say he was "unable" to do that. With regards to the Carolina SB, I suppose you're right.

In the NYG game, Brady hit Moss in the hands in stride on a 50+ yard bomb in the final seconds that could have either won the game or put the team in position for a FG. Moss couldn't hold on, but it was right where it needed to be.

 

[Evilgrin 72]

I think his first Superbowl was convenience of being on the right team at the right time. Most would not dispute this.

He did play poorly in SB XL, no doubt. But look at the numbers in the 3 AFC playoff games.@ CIN - 14/19 208 yds - 3 TD / 0 INT - 148.7 rating

@ IND - 14/24 197 yds - 2 TD / 1 INT - 95.3 rating (plus The Tackle)

@ DEN - 21/29 275 yds - 3 TD (1 rush) / 0 INT - 124.9 rating

This as a 23 year old. This team was 7-6 after 13 games, many people forget. It's not like he wandered on to a dominant team, he carried them to that Super Bowl, even though he didn't play well in it.

He's not Brady, he's not Manning. He's not even in the discussion.

I am disgusted that I even posted in this thread once, let alone as many times as I have. I just can't believe somebody wrote an article about this. I know you guys are Steelers fans, but you have to be kidding me, right? I mean...are we being serious here? Ben Roethlisberger....really?

I don't think anyone here is saying he is Brady or Manning. KC Joyner wrote the article, not any of us. The point was that he isn't as far off as many people would think.

 

[Sheriff66]

A discussion that would make more sense is :"Is Roethlisberger as good as Rodgers/Rivers"?

I would say Ben is closer to Manning/Brady than he is to Rivers/Rodgers

I'm a NE homer, but if I had to pick one non-Brady QB to win a big game, pretty sure it'd be Roethlisberger.As to the comments about whether or not Brady could've "survived" in PIT the past few years, I understand where they're coming from (i.e. the Steeler offensive line is horrendous), but I'm not positive it's true. Ben gets it done by being evasive, mobile, and strong enough to shake off some arm tackles while he looks down field to make something happen. Brady avoids the pass rush by making small, but extremely effective steps around the pocket and having a lightning fast release. I understand, however, and accept that Brady's approach might not have worked in PIT the past few years while Roethlisberger is probably the perfect QB for that situation. Either way, Pats fans shouldn't take this as an insult, it's not.

The Steelers don't dink and dunk, they have a more vertical passing game, he would need to hold the ball longer than he currently does.

 

[parrot]

1) Bledsoe bailing him out in Pittsburgh 2001 AFC Championship.

Some quality revisionist history here; Brady was 12/18 for 115 yards when he was knocked out in the second quarter. Bledsoe was 10/21 for 102 yards the rest of the way.

The point being if Bledsoe hadn't come in and thrown a key TD pass Tom Brady would not have had the opportunity to win his first Super Bowl. Bledsoe earned that win, one that Brady is often credited for.

Yes, Bledsoe came in and through a TD pass, which was nice, but I think your saying that he bailed out Brady somehow implies a lot more than just that. I've never really ever heard anyone credit Brady for that win, it's known as "the Troy Brown game" for a reason. Also it's not as if Ben hasn't gotten plenty of assists along the way himself. Randle El threw more TD passes in his first SuperBowl than he did. And in their second SuperBowl run Ben got at least one defensive or special teams TD in every playoff game.

 

[Bayhawks]

In regards to his first Super Bowl...you're making excuses for the guy's poor play. This is where I have a problem. You make excuses for his poor play in the game (his age), while at the same time using that same game as evidence of his greatness....soley based on the fact that it makes his number of Super Bowl wins higher. You ignore his play, and instead focus on the result. The result was a win for the Pittsburgh Steelers, not Ben Roethlisberger.The second Superbowl...he was outplayed by Kurt Warner. The fumble was already explained by another poster. The interception was a poor throw in an otherwise great day against the best defense in the NFL. Warner didn't have the luxury of having to manage the game to win like Ben did. Warner had to win it. Roethlisberger, for his entire career, has had the luxury and comfort of always being able to fall back on having the best defense in the league.

I won't address the first point. Ben had a bad game in SB XL, there's no denying that. He did, however, carry the team on his back in the playoffs to get to the SB, is all I'll say.To the second point "he was outplayed by Kurt Warner." Is only QB allowed to play well in the SB? Jake Delhomme outplayed Brady in SB XXXVIII, does that de-value that SB as one of Brady's accomplishments? You could actually make the argument that Brady was outplayed by his QB counterpart in ALL 4 SBs he's played in. (I'm not saying I'd buy that argument, but that you could make it) Does that mean that Brady's SB wins don't count?And as for Roethlisberger being able to manage the game, and not having to win it. Are you serious? Roethlisberger had to drive his team 88 yards with under 2.5 minutes left to WIN THE GAME. No running plays, no Steelers defense on the field. How exactly did Ben only have to "manage the game," and not win it?Finally, you said "Roethlisberger, for his entire career, has had the luxury and comfort of always being able to fall back on having the best defense in the league." Football is a team game, and every QB who wins a SB does so with a great supporting cast. Maybe it's a great offense, maybe it's a great defense, but no QB does it alone. Joe Montana had a great offense AND great defense; does that diminish his legacy? Troy Aikman had a great offensive line, one of the best RBs to ever play the game, a HOF WR, and a great defense; do his SBs not count? Tom Brady, in all 3 SBs, had the luxury and comfort of being able to rely on the solid play of his veteran defense; do his SBs stand invalidated?The only legitimate point you made was about Roethlisberger's poor play in SB XL, but your other points are either weak or flat out wrong.

 

[Iwannabeacowboybaby!]

This year's playoffs could make this very close. If Big Ben goes into New England, beats them and wins the SB earning his 3rd ring, it will be very close.

I think right now you have to give the edge to Tom Brady, he's earned it.

I love this thread because you guys finally got it right. Ben Roethlisberger needs to be compared to Tom Brady and Peyton Manning, not Aaron Rodgers, Tony Romo and Phillip Rivers.

Ben's a stud and knows how to win when everything is on the line. Of course Tom Brady is but that's more commonly accepted but Ben is a lot better than the credit he gets and love that he's right up there with the big boys in the league.

The only thing that I'll never forget from this board is a large majority of Pittsburgh fans ready to kick Big Ben to the curb after his problems last year. So many of you guys wanted him traded or let go for what he did and now you'll defend him against the top Qb's in the league and certainly wouldn't let him go from your team right now. I'm glad that I felt and showed support about Big Ben's situation on this board because he is indeed one of the top 4 Qb's at worst in this league.

 

[Sheriff66]

This year's playoffs could make this very close. If Big Ben goes into New England, beats them and wins the SB earning his 3rd ring, it will be very close.

I think right now you have to give the edge to Tom Brady, he's earned it.

I love this thread because you guys finally got it right. Ben Roethlisberger needs to be compared to Tom Brady and Peyton Manning, not Aaron Rodgers, Tony Romo and Phillip Rivers.

Ben's a stud and knows how to win when everything is on the line. Of course Tom Brady is but that's more commonly accepted but Ben is a lot better than the credit he gets and love that he's right up there with the big boys in the league.

The only thing that I'll never forget from this board is a large majority of Pittsburgh fans ready to kick Big Ben to the curb after his problems last year. So many of you guys wanted him traded or let go for what he did and now you'll defend him against the top Qb's in the league and certainly wouldn't let him go from your team right now. I'm glad that I felt and showed support about Big Ben's situation on this board because he is indeed one of the top 4 Qb's at worst in this league.

You don't trade Ben, he's too good, it would be like trading your nose to spite your face.

 

[The Westin]

In regards to his first Super Bowl...you're making excuses for the guy's poor play. This is where I have a problem. You make excuses for his poor play in the game (his age), while at the same time using that same game as evidence of his greatness....soley based on the fact that it makes his number of Super Bowl wins higher. You ignore his play, and instead focus on the result. The result was a win for the Pittsburgh Steelers, not Ben Roethlisberger.The second Superbowl...he was outplayed by Kurt Warner. The fumble was already explained by another poster. The interception was a poor throw in an otherwise great day against the best defense in the NFL. Warner didn't have the luxury of having to manage the game to win like Ben did. Warner had to win it. Roethlisberger, for his entire career, has had the luxury and comfort of always being able to fall back on having the best defense in the league.

I won't address the first point. Ben had a bad game in SB XL, there's no denying that. He did, however, carry the team on his back in the playoffs to get to the SB, is all I'll say.To the second point "he was outplayed by Kurt Warner." Is only QB allowed to play well in the SB? Jake Delhomme outplayed Brady in SB XXXVIII, does that de-value that SB as one of Brady's accomplishments? You could actually make the argument that Brady was outplayed by his QB counterpart in ALL 4 SBs he's played in. (I'm not saying I'd buy that argument, but that you could make it) Does that mean that Brady's SB wins don't count?And as for Roethlisberger being able to manage the game, and not having to win it. Are you serious? Roethlisberger had to drive his team 88 yards with under 2.5 minutes left to WIN THE GAME. No running plays, no Steelers defense on the field. How exactly did Ben only have to "manage the game," and not win it?Finally, you said "Roethlisberger, for his entire career, has had the luxury and comfort of always being able to fall back on having the best defense in the league." Football is a team game, and every QB who wins a SB does so with a great supporting cast. Maybe it's a great offense, maybe it's a great defense, but no QB does it alone. Joe Montana had a great offense AND great defense; does that diminish his legacy? Troy Aikman had a great offensive line, one of the best RBs to ever play the game, a HOF WR, and a great defense; do his SBs not count? Tom Brady, in all 3 SBs, had the luxury and comfort of being able to rely on the solid play of his veteran defense; do his SBs stand invalidated?The only legitimate point you made was about Roethlisberger's poor play in SB XL, but your other points are either weak or flat out wrong.

You're just supporting my point further. Superbowls are not the only measuring stick when talking about QB's, I've been making that point in almost every post I made. There are 53 players on a team. Aikman, Montana, Brady....none of them do it alone. That's my whole point in this thread. I don't think Brady is great just because of the Superbowls, he and Manning are on a completely different level than every other quarterback in the league and have been for quite some time. We are talking about Roethlisberger in here like he's on the same level and I don't see it. Yes he had a good drive in the Superbowl, I get it. That doesn't make him the quarterback of the decade, that doesn't make him surpass Brady as Quarterback of this generation. What about Manning? I understand the article leaves a lot open. But most people would agree that there is Manning and Brady. Right now, no, one drive does not make Roethlisberger in the same league as Manning and Brady. Nobody playing today is. Every quarterback in the league has A LOT more to prove before being in the discussin.

 

[bryhamm]

In regards to his first Super Bowl...you're making excuses for the guy's poor play. This is where I have a problem. You make excuses for his poor play in the game (his age), while at the same time using that same game as evidence of his greatness....soley based on the fact that it makes his number of Super Bowl wins higher. You ignore his play, and instead focus on the result. The result was a win for the Pittsburgh Steelers, not Ben Roethlisberger.The second Superbowl...he was outplayed by Kurt Warner. The fumble was already explained by another poster. The interception was a poor throw in an otherwise great day against the best defense in the NFL. Warner didn't have the luxury of having to manage the game to win like Ben did. Warner had to win it. Roethlisberger, for his entire career, has had the luxury and comfort of always being able to fall back on having the best defense in the league.

I won't address the first point. Ben had a bad game in SB XL, there's no denying that. He did, however, carry the team on his back in the playoffs to get to the SB, is all I'll say.To the second point "he was outplayed by Kurt Warner." Is only QB allowed to play well in the SB? Jake Delhomme outplayed Brady in SB XXXVIII, does that de-value that SB as one of Brady's accomplishments? You could actually make the argument that Brady was outplayed by his QB counterpart in ALL 4 SBs he's played in. (I'm not saying I'd buy that argument, but that you could make it) Does that mean that Brady's SB wins don't count?And as for Roethlisberger being able to manage the game, and not having to win it. Are you serious? Roethlisberger had to drive his team 88 yards with under 2.5 minutes left to WIN THE GAME. No running plays, no Steelers defense on the field. How exactly did Ben only have to "manage the game," and not win it?Finally, you said "Roethlisberger, for his entire career, has had the luxury and comfort of always being able to fall back on having the best defense in the league." Football is a team game, and every QB who wins a SB does so with a great supporting cast. Maybe it's a great offense, maybe it's a great defense, but no QB does it alone. Joe Montana had a great offense AND great defense; does that diminish his legacy? Troy Aikman had a great offensive line, one of the best RBs to ever play the game, a HOF WR, and a great defense; do his SBs not count? Tom Brady, in all 3 SBs, had the luxury and comfort of being able to rely on the solid play of his veteran defense; do his SBs stand invalidated?The only legitimate point you made was about Roethlisberger's poor play in SB XL, but your other points are either weak or flat out wrong.

You're just supporting my point further. Superbowls are not the only measuring stick when talking about QB's, I've been making that point in almost every post I made. There are 53 players on a team. Aikman, Montana, Brady....none of them do it alone. That's my whole point in this thread. I don't think Brady is great just because of the Superbowls, he and Manning are on a completely different level than every other quarterback in the league and have been for quite some time. We are talking about Roethlisberger in here like he's on the same level and I don't see it. Yes he had a good drive in the Superbowl, I get it. That doesn't make him the quarterback of the decade, that doesn't make him surpass Brady as Quarterback of this generation. What about Manning? I understand the article leaves a lot open. But most people would agree that there is Manning and Brady. Right now, no, one drive does not make Roethlisberger in the same league as Manning and Brady. Nobody playing today is. Every quarterback in the league has A LOT more to prove before being in the discussin.

So what would be your criteria for ranking QBs?

 

[Godsbrother]

Almost feels like one of those jinx threads. Watch him go out and have his worst game as a pro this weekend.

That would really suck for us.

 

[cvnpoka]

The posters that have been telling the rest of you (for 10 years now) that Brady is the best QB in the NFL have been more than proven right at this point.[/thread][/forum]

oh pls. manning was easily better in the mid 00s. in the last few years brady has improved and manning may have declined and its very close. brady undoubtedly played better this past season, but brady being better in 2010 does not make you right in 03-06.

 

[cvnpoka]

I just skimmed through this thread but from a lot of posts I'm seeing people having a hard time separating fantasy football from real football. Rivers and Rodgers better than Roethlisberger? No.

rivers has been absurdly efficient the last 3 years. his per pass rates are appreciably better than roeths. not really sure why he is being underrated in this thread and in general. guess its just sort by rings become expert.

 

[switz]

The posters that have been telling the rest of you (for 10 years now) that Brady is the best QB in the NFL have been more than proven right at this point.

oh pls. manning was easily better in the mid 00s. in the last few years brady has improved and manning may have declined and its very close. brady undoubtedly played better this past season, but brady being better in 2010 does not make you right in 03-06.

Manning was better than Brady last season, and in general (outside of 2007) over the past decade. Pretty much everyone acknowledges this outside of Pats fans. In the past 5 years, Manning has been to more SBs and won more SBs.Sure, Brady has actually developed inot one of the better QBs in the league, from the game manager he was when they were winning SuperBowls. But it's a HUGE stretch to say it's "more than proven right" that he's "the best QB in the NFL." He hasn't sustained the high level of production for as long as Manning has, and it's quite possible he tails off in the near future.Afterall, this is only the second season in 11 years that Brady has thrown more than 30 TDs, and he only has 3 in 11 seasons with more than 4,000 yards (this not being one of them). AS far as a FF QB goes, he's only been top-5 3 times in 11 seasons. Ben Roethlisberger is not as good as Brady, that's for certain, but he's close, and better than Brady was at this point in his career, so who knows what is to come of it between the two down the road.

 

[cvnpoka]

well i almost added a caveat that one season isnt enough to make a definitive judgment on something so close but thought that may open the door for the manning bashers to rehash.

 

[Bayhawks]

In regards to his first Super Bowl...you're making excuses for the guy's poor play. This is where I have a problem. You make excuses for his poor play in the game (his age), while at the same time using that same game as evidence of his greatness....soley based on the fact that it makes his number of Super Bowl wins higher. You ignore his play, and instead focus on the result. The result was a win for the Pittsburgh Steelers, not Ben Roethlisberger.

The second Superbowl...he was outplayed by Kurt Warner. The fumble was already explained by another poster. The interception was a poor throw in an otherwise great day against the best defense in the NFL. Warner didn't have the luxury of having to manage the game to win like Ben did. Warner had to win it. Roethlisberger, for his entire career, has had the luxury and comfort of always being able to fall back on having the best defense in the league.

I won't address the first point. Ben had a bad game in SB XL, there's no denying that. He did, however, carry the team on his back in the playoffs to get to the SB, is all I'll say.To the second point "he was outplayed by Kurt Warner." Is only QB allowed to play well in the SB? Jake Delhomme outplayed Brady in SB XXXVIII, does that de-value that SB as one of Brady's accomplishments? You could actually make the argument that Brady was outplayed by his QB counterpart in ALL 4 SBs he's played in. (I'm not saying I'd buy that argument, but that you could make it) Does that mean that Brady's SB wins don't count?

And as for Roethlisberger being able to manage the game, and not having to win it. Are you serious? Roethlisberger had to drive his team 88 yards with under 2.5 minutes left to WIN THE GAME. No running plays, no Steelers defense on the field. How exactly did Ben only have to "manage the game," and not win it?

Finally, you said "Roethlisberger, for his entire career, has had the luxury and comfort of always being able to fall back on having the best defense in the league." Football is a team game, and every QB who wins a SB does so with a great supporting cast. Maybe it's a great offense, maybe it's a great defense, but no QB does it alone. Joe Montana had a great offense AND great defense; does that diminish his legacy? Troy Aikman had a great offensive line, one of the best RBs to ever play the game, a HOF WR, and a great defense; do his SBs not count? Tom Brady, in all 3 SBs, had the luxury and comfort of being able to rely on the solid play of his veteran defense; do his SBs stand invalidated?

The only legitimate point you made was about Roethlisberger's poor play in SB XL, but your other points are either weak or flat out wrong.

You're just supporting my point further. Superbowls are not the only measuring stick when talking about QB's, I've been making that point in almost every post I made. There are 53 players on a team. Aikman, Montana, Brady....none of them do it alone. That's my whole point in this thread. I don't think Brady is great just because of the Superbowls, he and Manning are on a completely different level than every other quarterback in the league and have been for quite some time. We are talking about Roethlisberger in here like he's on the same level and I don't see it. Yes he had a good drive in the Superbowl, I get it. That doesn't make him the quarterback of the decade, that doesn't make him surpass Brady as Quarterback of this generation. What about Manning? I understand the article leaves a lot open. But most people would agree that there is Manning and Brady. Right now, no, one drive does not make Roethlisberger in the same league as Manning and Brady. Nobody playing today is. Every quarterback in the league has A LOT more to prove before being in the discussin.

Wait, I'm proving your point by showing that your reasoning for downplaying Roethlisberger's play in the playoffs/SB were almostly completely without merit or supported by reality? OK You say that SBs aren't the only measuring stick when talking about QBs, so what are?

Wins

Brady through age 28: 58

Roethlisberger currently: 69

Winning percentage

Brady through age 28: .744

Roethlisberger currently: .704

Touchdowns

Brady through age 28: 123+3 rushing TDs

Roethlisberger currently: 144+14 rushing TDs

TD %

Brady through age 28: 4.8

Roethlisberger currently: 5.1

Pass yards

Brady through age 28: 18035 yards

Roethlisberger currently: 22505 yards

YPA

Brady through age 28: 7.1 YPA

Roethlisberger currently: 8.0 YPA

Completion %

Brady through age 28: 62%

Roethlisberger currently: 63%

Interceptions

Brady through age 28: 66

Roethlisberger currently: 86

INT %

Brady through age 28: 2.6

Roethlisberger currently: 3.1

4th Quarter comebacks/Game winning drives

Brady through age 28: 21 (including playoffs)

Roethlisberger currently: 24 (including playoffs)

Playoff record

Brady through age 28: 10-1

Roethlisberger currently: 8.2

SBs won

Brady through age 28: 3

Roethlisberger currently: 2

So, please show me how, exactly, Brady was so vastly superior (at 28) to where Roethlisberger now is?

Roethlisberger has more wins, Brady had a higher winning percentage.

Roethlisberger has more TDs, a higher TD %, more pass yards, a higher YPA, & higher completion %.

Brady had fewer INTs, and a lower INT %.

Roethlisberger has more comebacks/game-winning drives.

Brady had a 91% winning percentage in the playoffs, Roethlisberger has a 80% winning percentage in the playoffs.

Brady had 3 SBs, Roethlisberger has 2 (& a shot at 1 more this year).

I don't see either QB being vastly superior, as you seem to believe. Rather I see 2 QBs who have produced very similar stats, wins, and championships for their teams.

 

[David Yudkin]

Of course Big Ben has better numbers statistically through age 28. Brady started 80 games in that time. Ben has started 98. Roethlisberger started his first game at 22. Brady didn't start a game until he was 24. And we also already know that Brady missed a season at age 31, so Roethlisberger will have that advantage in a few years as well.

Because Big Ben began starting at such an early age, he ranks 5th in passing yards through age 28 after Peyton, Bledsoe, Marino, and Favre.

 

[Ballstein]

Big Ben's winning TD in the superbowl was the most "clutch" in NFL history

 

[kyoun1e]

Someone already posted this, and Pats fans will deny it until the end of time, but Roethlisberger has produced much the same results as Brady has. Brady is 5 years older than Roethlisberger, and its in the last 5 seasons where Brady has put up monster numbers. Maybe that's a product of him getting older, more knowledgeable, more comfortable in the NE system, having better players. Maybe it's a combination of all these things. Look at Brady when he was 28, and look at Ben now. Ben has played 1 more season than Brady did when he was 28 (two, if you dis-count Brady's rookie year, since he didn't play). Ben has averaged slightly fewer yards and TDs (per year) than Brady did to this point in their respective careers, but Ben has completed a slightly higher percentage of his passes and averaged slightly fewer INTs (per year) than Brady has to this point in their respective careers.Wins-Brady averaged 11.6 wins/season, Roethlisberger has averaged 9.9 wins/season. Brady's winning percentage was .744, Roethlisberger's is .704. Brady was 10-1 in the playoffs, Roethlisberger is 8-2 (with this post-season to be added). Brady won 3 SBs, Roethlisberer has won 2 (so far).Keep in mind that much of what is being held against Roethlisberger now (great defense, team wins the games, not him) could (and was) said about Brady when he was younger.Is Roethlisberger as good, RIGHT NOW, as Brady is? No. Is Roethlisberger very comparable to Brady when he was 28? Absolutely. If you disagree, you are ignoring facts.

I wouldn't deny any of this. I totally agree that Roethlisberger is on a hall of fame pace, and I've been saying so for a few years. I think a lot of Pats fans have said this here, actually.

I'd agree with this as well.I think it's pretty clear that Brady has evolved as a quarterback -- from a game manager to somebody that can pass with anyone.Ben has that same potential to evolve the same way.KY

 

[Carver]

I havent laughed this hard at a SP thread in long time.

Good stuff.

 

[Kool-Aid Larry]

no

 

[GoodLloydHaveMercy]

These conversations always seem to be pointless until the QB's career stops being a moving target. This time last year, Peyton Manning was deemed to have surpassed Brady in terms of 'legacy'. Now the idea sounds preposterous. I think the best any of these QB's can do is make themselves eligible for this conversation when their careers are over or they are significantly past their prime and unlikely to add to their resume. Elway's legacy actually didn't form until the last two years of his career.

Until then, it's tough to compare the merits of QB's like Manning, Brady, and BB when one is 35 and another is 29.

this

 

[Bayhawks]

Of course Big Ben has better numbers statistically through age 28. Brady started 80 games in that time. Ben has started 98. Roethlisberger started his first game at 22. Brady didn't start a game until he was 24. And we also already know that Brady missed a season at age 31, so Roethlisberger will have that advantage in a few years as well.Because Big Ben began starting at such an early age, he ranks 5th in passing yards through age 28 after Peyton, Bledsoe, Marino, and Favre.

So what does that mean? How do you compare the two? If we can't use numbers, how do you say Brady is definitively better?ETA-Let's look at each man's first 7 seasons (Roethlisberger just finished season 7)Roethlisberger has just finished his 7th NFL (regular) season. He has started 98 games in that span.In Brady's first 7 seasons, he started 94 games. (Even though he didn't play much his first season).Here are the comparison stats:WinsBrady-70Ben-69Win %Brady-.745Ben-.704Pass yardsBen-22,502Brady-21,564Pass yds/gameBen-229.6Brady-229.4TDsBen-144 (+14 rush)Brady-147 (+3 rush)Competion %Ben-63.1%Brady-61.8%YPABen-8.0Brady-7.0INTBrady-78Ben-864th quarter comeback/game-winning drivesBen-24Brady-24SBBrady-3Ben-2 (plus a chance for 1 more)Winning %-Brady is a little higher, INTs-Brady didn't have quite as many, & SBs-Brady has the advantage (for the time being). But passing yards, TDs, completion %, YPA all favor Roethlisberger. This ignores the age factor, since after 7 seasons, they played roughly the same amount of games (94 for Brady, 98 for Ben). I still fail to see how Brady was demonstrably better during his first 7 seasons than Roethlisberger has been during his first 7.

 

[GoodLloydHaveMercy]

What a joke! Ben Roethlisberger? Besides not being anywhere close to Tom Brady's level he's not even in the Top 2 Tiers of QB's in the NFL.

He's definitely in the 2nd tier of qbs. You're fishing...........

BradyManningBrees RiversRodgersHe's in the 3rd tier ...... maybe.You're fishing .......

I'm sorry but I can't do it... how the heck can Rivers be in FRONT of Big Ben?!!Playoffs don't mean anything anymore?Making a big play when your team needs it doesn't mean anything anymore?Preforming well in TIGHT games doesn't mean anything anymore?I love fantasy football but lets get our feet back under us.....Beiber BradySheriff ManningBig BenBreesRodgersRiversWhen things go as planned then MAYBE... MAYBE you would put Brees & Rodgers & Rivers above Ben...problem is, things WILL go wrong... the games WILL be tight...Who's got a better chance to MAKE the play that will put their team over the top?Maybe Drew Brees at times (I gotta tell ya, he seems to FORCE the ball under pressure quite a bit... doesn't do that well extending plays when the initial reads aren't there)Certainly not Rodgers (as of yet he has NOT been good in tight games... look it up)Certainly not Rivers (how's the top D in the league NOT in the playoffs... How do you throw 2 picks on back to back drives to the Jets in the playoffs... How have you NOT gotten your team over the top at least once when your roster has been touted one of the most talented rosters in the league for YEARS!!)and PLEASE.... whomever said that Carson Palmer deserves to be a darkhorse for this conversation has to have had him on their Fantasy team this year OR they are a Bengals fan.For the record... Josh Freeman reminds me a ton of Big Ben but only more athletic. That dude MAKES things happen when the going is rough.... you just get that same feeling that Big Ben gives you at the end of the game. That feeling that somehow, someway, he is gonna put his team in a position to win. Sure you can make the argument that if they played at an elite level earlier on then they wouldn't have to take it down to crunch time but come on... some teams are built to play it fairly conservative with a lead (Ravens, Steelers, Bucs, Falcons... Etc.) and some are not (Pats, Colts, Saints, Chargers, Packers).For the record, I was gonna put the Panthers in that first group but they don't really ever have a lead.

 

[David Yudkin]

Of course Big Ben has better numbers statistically through age 28. Brady started 80 games in that time. Ben has started 98. Roethlisberger started his first game at 22. Brady didn't start a game until he was 24. And we also already know that Brady missed a season at age 31, so Roethlisberger will have that advantage in a few years as well.Because Big Ben began starting at such an early age, he ranks 5th in passing yards through age 28 after Peyton, Bledsoe, Marino, and Favre.

So what does that mean? How do you compare the two? If we can't use numbers, how do you say Brady is definitively better?

Pick the same (or close to) number of starts for both players.Brady through 2006:96 GP, 1896 completions, 3064 attempts, 21564 passing yards, 7.04 YPA, 147 TD, 78 INT, 88.4 passer rating70-24 regular season as a starter (.745)12-2 post season, 3 SB winsBig Ben to date:99 GP, 1766 completions, 2800 attempts, 61.9%, 22502 passing yards, 8.0 YPA, 144 TD, 86 INT, 92.5 rating69-29 regular season as a starter (.704)8-2 post season, 2 SB winsOne thing I would say that is a factor is that in the last few years passing totals have gone through the roof, so Ben gets the benefit of that and Brady doesn't.Brady's best numbers occurred in the years NOT included in the above totals. From 2007 - 2010, here are Brady's numbers:49 games, 1100 completions, 1646 attempts, 66.8%, 13180 passing yards, 8.01 YPA, 114 TD, 25 INT, 107.9 passer ratingI already said earlier in the thread that there was not a huge difference between Brady and Roethlisberger, and these numbers go to illustrate that.

 

[GoodLloydHaveMercy]

A discussion that would make more sense is :"Is Roethlisberger as good as Rodgers/Rivers"?

A guy who has won two Super Bowls vs. two that have never been to a Super Bowl. Next.

Was Troy Aikman better than Dan Marino because he went to and won three Super Bowls and Marino only went to one and lost it?

Thank you, I was going to use the Dilfer argument. Anyways, consistently having the best defense in the league year in and year out helps when winning a team game consisting of 52 other players. Don't get me wrong, Ben is clutch. But he is more on Rodgers/Rovers level.... to even mention him in the same sentence as Brady simply because of Superbowls is a joke. I understand why Superbowls are important, but it is not the only measuring stick when ranking a Quarterback. It can't be. Offense, Defense, Special Teams...there is just too much that goes into winning a Championship to give the QB all the credit when it does happen. Manning/Brady are on a level above anyone in the league.

Having the top D didn't seem to get the Chargers even into the playoffs THIS year.Yes... having a top 5 defense each year is a big key and yes people could argue that P Manning isn't afforded that luxury. People could also argue that P Manning would end up in the fetal position far more often behind the patchwork offensive line of the Steelers who for the most part seem to draft defensively verses the Colts who choose to continue to draft OFFENSIVE pieces.Add the fact that the Colts D is built to play with a lead where they can pin their ears back and get after the QB and you can see why P Manning probably struggles with tight games in the playoffs.IMO team philosophies seem to not be taken into account for these types of discussions very often.

 

[Adebisi]

You don't trade Ben, he's too good, it would be like trading your nose to spite your face.

You are of course correct. The best part?Since the decision was made to trade Holmes but hold onto Roethlisberger, we haven't had to listen to Steelers fans talk about how their organization is so much classier than everyone else's. ( ) Everyone wins.Of course, Steeler fans are still holding tight onto the "no one else could do what Ben does behind Pittsburgh's offensive line" foolishness, but hey... baby steps.

 

[Bayhawks]

Of course Big Ben has better numbers statistically through age 28. Brady started 80 games in that time. Ben has started 98. Roethlisberger started his first game at 22. Brady didn't start a game until he was 24. And we also already know that Brady missed a season at age 31, so Roethlisberger will have that advantage in a few years as well.Because Big Ben began starting at such an early age, he ranks 5th in passing yards through age 28 after Peyton, Bledsoe, Marino, and Favre.

So what does that mean? How do you compare the two? If we can't use numbers, how do you say Brady is definitively better?

Pick the same (or close to) number of starts for both players.Brady through 2006:96 GP, 1896 completions, 3064 attempts, 21564 passing yards, 7.04 YPA, 147 TD, 78 INT, 88.4 passer rating70-24 regular season as a starter (.745)12-2 post season, 3 SB winsBig Ben to date:99 GP, 1766 completions, 2800 attempts, 61.9%, 22502 passing yards, 8.0 YPA, 144 TD, 86 INT, 92.5 rating69-29 regular season as a starter (.704)8-2 post season, 2 SB winsOne thing I would say that is a factor is that in the last few years passing totals have gone through the roof, so Ben gets the benefit of that and Brady doesn't.Brady's best numbers occurred in the years NOT included in the above totals. From 2007 - 2010, here are Brady's numbers:49 games, 1100 completions, 1646 attempts, 66.8%, 13180 passing yards, 8.01 YPA, 114 TD, 25 INT, 107.9 passer ratingI already said earlier in the thread that there was not a huge difference between Brady and Roethlisberger, and these numbers go to illustrate that.

I edited to post similar stats, and it seems like we may be making the same point, which is to say that Brady, while widely regarded as a better QB than Roethlisberger, isn't light years ahead.

 

[GoodLloydHaveMercy]

A discussion that would make more sense is :"Is Roethlisberger as good as Rodgers/Rivers"?

I would say Ben is closer to Manning/Brady than he is to Rivers/Rodgers

I'm a NE homer, but if I had to pick one non-Brady QB to win a big game, pretty sure it'd be Roethlisberger.As to the comments about whether or not Brady could've "survived" in PIT the past few years, I understand where they're coming from (i.e. the Steeler offensive line is horrendous), but I'm not positive it's true. Ben gets it done by being evasive, mobile, and strong enough to shake off some arm tackles while he looks down field to make something happen. Brady avoids the pass rush by making small, but extremely effective steps around the pocket and having a lightning fast release. I understand, however, and accept that Brady's approach might not have worked in PIT the past few years while Roethlisberger is probably the perfect QB for that situation. Either way, Pats fans shouldn't take this as an insult, it's not.

very well said

 

[GoodLloydHaveMercy]

Someone already posted this, and Pats fans will deny it until the end of time, but Roethlisberger has produced much the same results as Brady has. Brady is 5 years older than Roethlisberger, and its in the last 5 seasons where Brady has put up monster numbers. Maybe that's a product of him getting older, more knowledgeable, more comfortable in the NE system, having better players. Maybe it's a combination of all these things. Look at Brady when he was 28, and look at Ben now. Ben has played 1 more season than Brady did when he was 28 (two, if you dis-count Brady's rookie year, since he didn't play). Ben has averaged slightly fewer yards and TDs (per year) than Brady did to this point in their respective careers, but Ben has completed a slightly higher percentage of his passes and averaged slightly fewer INTs (per year) than Brady has to this point in their respective careers.Wins-Brady averaged 11.6 wins/season, Roethlisberger has averaged 9.9 wins/season. Brady's winning percentage was .744, Roethlisberger's is .704. Brady was 10-1 in the playoffs, Roethlisberger is 8-2 (with this post-season to be added). Brady won 3 SBs, Roethlisberer has won 2 (so far).Keep in mind that much of what is being held against Roethlisberger now (great defense, team wins the games, not him) could (and was) said about Brady when he was younger.Is Roethlisberger as good, RIGHT NOW, as Brady is? No. Is Roethlisberger very comparable to Brady when he was 28? Absolutely. If you disagree, you are ignoring facts.

dang does this mean Big Ben has a shot at someone like Giselle down the road?!!