Honestly I could trade DMC for even Rice or AD right now. DMC has too much blow uo potential against anyone and is maybe the only match up prppf RB out there. I know he will miss games but Bush is a solid back up. So Would you trade DMC right now for any RB straight up if you also have Bush?
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Is DMC even tradable right now (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter The Moz
- Start date
Dmc/bush owner, and the only wrinkle is Taiwan Jones. unliike last year, there's no guarantee that Bush steps right in and gets enough touches to be a legit RB1 if dmc goes down. Although Rock Cartwright got a bunch of snaps last week, including picking the ball up in the endzone on Moore's TD and ridiculously jumping into the stands like it was his TD.
Badgers Fan
Footballguy
Many people have asked me for DMC. I said I personally will not offer him in any trades, but if you want to make me an offer that is clearly in my favor, offer it.
Raider Nation
Devil's Advocate
Nonsense. Jones isn't the between-the-tackles grinder that Bush is. He's not built for that. Bush would be extremely valuable without McFadden.
Lester Long
Footballguy
I agree. it would hands down be Bush's job if McFadden got hurt. there may not be a better backup RB in all of football.
As far as the original question if I wanna trade someone having their backup won't influence me 1 way or the other.
Noah Davis
Footballguy
Just had a trade for DMC go down in my 12 Team PPR money league.
Team A Roster
QB: Rodgers,
WR: K. Britt (IR), D. Bryant, J. Gaffney, B. Hartline, C. Ocho, D. Hester, M. Massoquoi, T. Smith, A. Caldwell
RB: D. McFadden, R. Bush, M. Bush
TE: H Miller, J. Casey
Team B Roster
QB: Vick, Bradfort
WR: R. White, E. Decker, Plax, R. Meachem
RB: F. Jones, T. Hightower, D. Williams, D. Murray, R. Helu, K. Hunter
TE: Gates, McMichael, Gresham
Team A gave up DMC and D. Bryant for T. Hightower, R. White, and Plax
Team A Roster
QB: Rodgers,
WR: K. Britt (IR), D. Bryant, J. Gaffney, B. Hartline, C. Ocho, D. Hester, M. Massoquoi, T. Smith, A. Caldwell
RB: D. McFadden, R. Bush, M. Bush
TE: H Miller, J. Casey
Team B Roster
QB: Vick, Bradfort
WR: R. White, E. Decker, Plax, R. Meachem
RB: F. Jones, T. Hightower, D. Williams, D. Murray, R. Helu, K. Hunter
TE: Gates, McMichael, Gresham
Team A gave up DMC and D. Bryant for T. Hightower, R. White, and Plax
Raiderfan32904
Footballguy
This is not an AC Forum question and would be SP police need to chill. This is a legit question, perhaps better phrased as "what is DMC's trade value?"
He is in fact the best overall back in the NFL, and many legit media and football insiders are saying as much. The only knock on him is his injury history, and his weak first two years in the league still carries a shadow of doubt over him. Add in the obvious Raiderhate bias, and people are incorrectly judging his talent.
Tom Cable and his failed ZBS system didn't run the type of plays that DMC was comfortable in. He finally got a real HC in Hue Jackson and OC Al Saunders. They asked him what type of plays he liked to run, and they integrated those plays into the game plan. The result? DMC going into beastmode, and he's aiming for 2,000 rushing yards this season. Already leading the NFL with 393 yards in 3 games, he's well on his way to that. The injury label is something that seems to follow him, and he needs to play a full year to shed the label. But history has shown that M. Bush has put up RB1 statlines when DMC is out. And Bush is in a contract year, and physically is ripped. If DMC ever went down, don't expect a huge dropoff. They aren't the same type of runners, but for the schemes that Jackson/Saunders run, Bush would still perform like an RB1. By far, the most valuable handcuff in the league.
As to trade value, I own both. I'd not trade them straight up for any back in the NFL right now. Any trade would be a package deal, and it would likely have to include another RB1 and a WR1 or QB1. Again, I don't think anybody else feels he's worth that, so I have no problem holding him all season long and reaping the rewards.
He is in fact the best overall back in the NFL, and many legit media and football insiders are saying as much. The only knock on him is his injury history, and his weak first two years in the league still carries a shadow of doubt over him. Add in the obvious Raiderhate bias, and people are incorrectly judging his talent.
Tom Cable and his failed ZBS system didn't run the type of plays that DMC was comfortable in. He finally got a real HC in Hue Jackson and OC Al Saunders. They asked him what type of plays he liked to run, and they integrated those plays into the game plan. The result? DMC going into beastmode, and he's aiming for 2,000 rushing yards this season. Already leading the NFL with 393 yards in 3 games, he's well on his way to that. The injury label is something that seems to follow him, and he needs to play a full year to shed the label. But history has shown that M. Bush has put up RB1 statlines when DMC is out. And Bush is in a contract year, and physically is ripped. If DMC ever went down, don't expect a huge dropoff. They aren't the same type of runners, but for the schemes that Jackson/Saunders run, Bush would still perform like an RB1. By far, the most valuable handcuff in the league.
As to trade value, I own both. I'd not trade them straight up for any back in the NFL right now. Any trade would be a package deal, and it would likely have to include another RB1 and a WR1 or QB1. Again, I don't think anybody else feels he's worth that, so I have no problem holding him all season long and reaping the rewards.
pittstownkiller
Footballguy
Yikes!
Raiderfan32904
Footballguy
Horrible trade for team A.
LittlePhatty
Footballguy
All I see here is valid discussion about a top RB.He's #1 right now, so do you hold or take a shot at one of the #2 - #5 guys finishing better?
McFadden is running like a mad man. He just looks like he's on a mission to prove something with every carry. Injury risk or not I think it is nearly impossible to give him up for any other back in a 1-1 trade, just because he has a chance to be THE dominating player this year, like CJ was in 2009. Michael Bush could probably be an RB1 on another team. I wonder if the Raiders will be able to hold on to him next year?DMC/Bush owner here. You would likely have to throw out a ridiculous offer for me to even glance your direction. I've been saying for some time now that DMC is the most talented RB in the league. Now that he is proving it, no way am I giving him up.All I see here is valid discussion about a top RB.He's #1 right now, so do you hold or take a shot at one of the #2 - #5 guys finishing better?
sho nuff
Footballguy
Agreed...and while its not a sure fire thing...DMC has a legit backup in Bush.
Trade him for ADP and what happens if ADP gets hurt? Youve got nothing close the production you were getting from your stud.
The value of having both is just too high...and with Bush getting TD looks right now, you can even flex him to cover a bye week if you need to and have a shot at putting up decent points.
Trade him for ADP and what happens if ADP gets hurt? Youve got nothing close the production you were getting from your stud.
The value of having both is just too high...and with Bush getting TD looks right now, you can even flex him to cover a bye week if you need to and have a shot at putting up decent points.
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LawFitz
Footballguy
The one and only reason to trade DMC right now would be if you still have significant concerns about durability. But a Michael Bush handcuff helps that a lot if you can stomach using two roster spots.
It's pretty obvious Hue Jax and Saunders are going to ride McFadden. Al Saunders has had a fantastic track record with RBs. DMC will catch a ton of passes this year. Saunders produced video game RB numbers out of talents like Priest and Faulk in the past and DMC seems to be the latest in that line.
BTW, Saunders was not with the Raiders last year, but Jackson was and had already incorporated Saunders' offensive scheme and philosophy. This is year two of this system for McFadden and the results are impressive to say the least.
I think if we were redrafting tomorrow knowing all that we now know, there would be a significant number of drafts where DMC would go #1 overall, just to give an indication of current value. Maybe not consensus #1, but easily consensus top 5.
It's pretty obvious Hue Jax and Saunders are going to ride McFadden. Al Saunders has had a fantastic track record with RBs. DMC will catch a ton of passes this year. Saunders produced video game RB numbers out of talents like Priest and Faulk in the past and DMC seems to be the latest in that line.
BTW, Saunders was not with the Raiders last year, but Jackson was and had already incorporated Saunders' offensive scheme and philosophy. This is year two of this system for McFadden and the results are impressive to say the least.
I think if we were redrafting tomorrow knowing all that we now know, there would be a significant number of drafts where DMC would go #1 overall, just to give an indication of current value. Maybe not consensus #1, but easily consensus top 5.
Concept Coop
Footballguy
McCoy is #1. His production will match DMC's and his injury risk is less.
Mr. Know-It-All
Footballguy
I would trade him for Ray Rice. I would consider traing him for Peterson. After that, the answer is no. Easy for me to say though as I don't have him in a single league.
I'm not sure why you'd trade a McFadden for a Rice or Peterson, any more than I'm sure why you'd trade a Rice or Peterson for a McFadden. Seems like shuffling deck chairs.
Of course he's a guy who can be traded. Just like any other commodity.
You trade him if the result makes your team better and more likely to win a title; you don't if it doesn't.
Of course he's a guy who can be traded. Just like any other commodity.
You trade him if the result makes your team better and more likely to win a title; you don't if it doesn't.
Raiderfan32904
Footballguy
Fair enough. Are you basing this on the assumption of an upright M. Vick all season long? What if it's Kafka's show? You don't think Vick's potential absense affects Shady?
sho nuff
Footballguy
Thankfully I have both.
TheDirtyWord
Footballguy
Even during draft season, I wondered why McCoy was valued as a mid 1st rounder, while DMC was considered early 2nd. It obviously comes down to perception about injury risk, but I always see that as overblown. Jamaal Charles wasn't considered an injury risk even though his HC made it a point to limit his touches. Was Peyton Manning an injury risk?
But if you looked at DMC's per game data last season, it was decidedly better than McCoy's (he averaged 17 YFS/game more than McCoy and had 1 more TD in two fewer games). Now to be fair, McCoy is also performing brilliantly in 2011, but the spectre of a 2000+ YFS season was evident in DMC's game in 2010. This is a rare breed now.
The issue IMO has to do with your team. If you've got good balance throughout your roster, the need to deal DMC is negligible - enjoy the ride. But if things haven't broken your way in other areas of your roster, you are more than within the realm of reason to expect to a RB1/WR1/QB1/elite TE combo (2 of 4) in return.
But if you looked at DMC's per game data last season, it was decidedly better than McCoy's (he averaged 17 YFS/game more than McCoy and had 1 more TD in two fewer games). Now to be fair, McCoy is also performing brilliantly in 2011, but the spectre of a 2000+ YFS season was evident in DMC's game in 2010. This is a rare breed now.
The issue IMO has to do with your team. If you've got good balance throughout your roster, the need to deal DMC is negligible - enjoy the ride. But if things haven't broken your way in other areas of your roster, you are more than within the realm of reason to expect to a RB1/WR1/QB1/elite TE combo (2 of 4) in return.
Dr. Octopus
Footballguy
Why is that? Because McFadden has been hurt before? I don't think there's a correlation between most past injuries and future injuries. People just like to say things like "injury prone" to try and describe past results.McCoy though is close value though.
Coeur de Lion
Footballguy
Dynasty-wise, McFadden is more likely to throw up a ridiculous league-winning season -- Chris Johnson 2009 style, but I trust the Ravens to be a stable environment for the next 3 - 5 years much more than the Raiders. Rice also has a better track record health-wise than most guys in that top-5 neighborhood.Personal preference, though on risk / reward in that elite tier.
Raiderfan32904
Footballguy
Don't forget McFadden is only 23 years old. Still has a whole lot of prime left in him. Rice is a back that doesn't have near McFadden's sheer talent level, and I predict the falloff will be a swift one when it happens. Much moreso than DMC. Why is DMC's situation unstable? And what would that have anything to do with long term value of DMC. The Raider are always going to run the football, and with HueJax and Saunders, the road looks very secure for organizational support of DMC carrying the ball early and often.
gandalas
Footballguy
Just glad I have McFadden and Rice in my main league.
Actually bought all-in on McFadden for this season...have him in 3 leagues, and don't think I could even consider trading him in any of them.
squistion
Footballguy
I drafted DMC with the 1.01 pick his rookie year (and was essentially called an idiot by EBF). After holding him this long, I am not going to cash out for a safer pick when he suddenly looks like the stud I thought he was when I drafted him (and there is no guarantee these trades always end well, see Jamal Charles) I will continue to roll the dice even though I can't work out a trade with the Bush owner (I also own Taiwan Jones).
If one is worried about his durability, then yes I suppose trade him for Rice or McCoy makes sense, but those owners probably won't add much of anything to get him, so I don't see the point unless they were willing to overpay for him.
If one is worried about his durability, then yes I suppose trade him for Rice or McCoy makes sense, but those owners probably won't add much of anything to get him, so I don't see the point unless they were willing to overpay for him.
Raiderfan32904
Footballguy
Again, I don't see the upside here as McCoy's value is directly tied to Vick's health. Even if he's considered more durable (which btw, good luck predicting injuries) than DMC.
LawFitz
Footballguy
The tides of organizational change bring about opportunity in fantasy football.
Those that predicted the emergence of Oakland and Detroit have had a tremendous value advantage so far. I didn't target Detroit, but hitting on Oakland has been huge for me, and I'm sure it has for others as well. Made up for my whiff on StL. Lucky for me my StL bets were much later in my draft and quickly replaced with early wire steals.
Those that predicted the emergence of Oakland and Detroit have had a tremendous value advantage so far. I didn't target Detroit, but hitting on Oakland has been huge for me, and I'm sure it has for others as well. Made up for my whiff on StL. Lucky for me my StL bets were much later in my draft and quickly replaced with early wire steals.
Coeur de Lion
Footballguy
I see the argument for McFadden's physical talent being greater (but the two are close), but he doesn't have an edge in age or situation.McFadden is 24, and Rice is also, 7 months older. The age difference is negligible.The Ravens are a consistently well run team with a solid young QB. The Raiders, not so much. Sure, McFadden will be the Raiders featured RB, but the Raiders are all over the place as far as team quality, coaching, erratic ownership, crappy offense, revolving door journeymen QB and offensive personnel, etc. Yeah, they appear to have moved in the right direction, but I think most people would agree that Baltimore is a more stable situation, team-wise.
LawFitz
Footballguy
Organizationally speaking, there is significant upside to Hue Jax and Saunders (which should be obvious by now). That said, the Ravens seem leaps and bounds ahead of the Raiders in almost every other way.Individual talent alone: DMC >>> RiceExpected durability I'll give to Rice due to his compact frame.For 2011 I value DMC more. Beyond that it depends on whether or not Hue Jax wins.I see the argument for McFadden's physical talent being greater (but the two are close), but he doesn't have an edge in age or situation.McFadden is 24, and Rice is also, 7 months older. The age difference is negligible.The Ravens are a consistently well run team with a solid young QB. The Raiders, not so much. Sure, McFadden will be the Raiders featured RB, but the Raiders are all over the place as far as team quality, coaching, erratic ownership, crappy offense, revolving door journeymen QB and offensive personnel, etc. Yeah, they appear to have moved in the right direction, but I think most people would agree that Baltimore is a more stable situation, team-wise.
TheDirtyWord
Footballguy
Just as an FYI...with 16 games of data now to go on dating back to the start of 2010 (when DMC started his rise), his stats are:
284 Carries
1550 Rushing Yards
5.46 YPC
58 Receptions
591 Receiving Yards
14 Total TD's.
284 Carries
1550 Rushing Yards
5.46 YPC
58 Receptions
591 Receiving Yards
14 Total TD's.
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Crappy offense? They finished 6th in scoring last year at 25.6 points per game! The Ravens were 16th.I see the argument for McFadden's physical talent being greater (but the two are close), but he doesn't have an edge in age or situation.McFadden is 24, and Rice is also, 7 months older. The age difference is negligible.
Don't forget McFadden is only 23 years old. Still has a whole lot of prime left in him. Rice is a back that doesn't have near McFadden's sheer talent level, and I predict the falloff will be a swift one when it happens. Much moreso than DMC. Why is DMC's situation unstable? And what would that have anything to do with long term value of DMC. The Raider are always going to run the football, and with HueJax and Saunders, the road looks very secure for organizational support of DMC carrying the ball early and often.
The Ravens are a consistently well run team with a solid young QB. The Raiders, not so much. Sure, McFadden will be the Raiders featured RB, but the Raiders are all over the place as far as team quality, coaching, erratic ownership, crappy offense, revolving door journeymen QB and offensive personnel, etc. Yeah, they appear to have moved in the right direction, but I think most people would agree that Baltimore is a more stable situation, team-wise.
Concept Coop
Footballguy
Wrong. His numbers, like Celek's, went up with Kolb playing QB lasst season.His talent is real and he would be a bigger part of the offense without Vick, especially in the redzone.
Raiderfan32904
Footballguy
How much stock do you put in that small a sample size of games? The fact is that everywhere Vick has played, he's positively affected the running game. And while we are on the subject of Vick's replacement, are you really ready to compare Kolb to Kafka?'Concept Coop said:
Raiderfan32904
Footballguy
'Scooter71 said:Crappy offense? They finished 6th in scoring last year at 25.6 points per game! The Ravens were 16th.'Coeur de Lion said:I see the argument for McFadden's physical talent being greater (but the two are close), but he doesn't have an edge in age or situation.McFadden is 24, and Rice is also, 7 months older. The age difference is negligible.'Raiderfan32904 said:
Don't forget McFadden is only 23 years old. Still has a whole lot of prime left in him. Rice is a back that doesn't have near McFadden's sheer talent level, and I predict the falloff will be a swift one when it happens. Much moreso than DMC. Why is DMC's situation unstable? And what would that have anything to do with long term value of DMC. The Raider are always going to run the football, and with HueJax and Saunders, the road looks very secure for organizational support of DMC carrying the ball early and often.
The Ravens are a consistently well run team with a solid young QB. The Raiders, not so much. Sure, McFadden will be the Raiders featured RB, but the Raiders are all over the place as far as team quality, coaching, erratic ownership, crappy offense, revolving door journeymen QB and offensive personnel, etc. Yeah, they appear to have moved in the right direction, but I think most people would agree that Baltimore is a more stable situation, team-wise.
Anyone who believes that the Raiders are a crappy offense, must still think we have JaMarcus on our team. Go check the box scores if you need proof. The Raiders are a fantasy goldmine of potential scoring. Both in terms of net yardage and points. Anyone who disagrees has not done their homework.
Coeur de Lion
Footballguy
They were 31st in 2009 and 29th in 2008. They change coaches and coordinators like most people change their underwear. They could be 6th in scoring again in say, 2013, or Al Davis could come out of his coffin long enough to get offended by something that Jackson says and there is more turnover. I have much more confidence that Baltimore produces winning teams, retains quality coaching personnel, and keeps a quality supporting cast around Rice than I do for McFadden.Again, these guys are in the same tier. I understand the McFadden is more talented argument. I understand taking McFadden's high ceiling over Rice's high floor. I just don't see the situations as being remotely close.'Scooter71 said:
Concept Coop
Footballguy
McCoy's value is directly tied to the fact that he is a stud. He is one of the most talented players in the NFL. He will put up points, regardless of who Philly has at QB, as long as Jackson and Maclin line up and threaten to take the top off of the defense. And yes, I think Kafka can do what Kolb did last season.
LawFitz
Footballguy
I agree with McCoy's talent being elite as well. His forty time was not at all a good reflection of his short area burst, awareness and hands. Dude has it all.
DMC is the same, but bigger with less lateral agility. DMC has some side movement, moreso than he is given credit, but not like McCoy's. But DMC has greater home run speed and power. Much greater power. Dude runs angry, but also with a good instincts for the rhythm and timing of the game. He's not just a duck his head bull rusher. He looks for the right opportunities to truck defenders.
When you watch them all play, DMC has been the guy that's jumped off the screen this year. The only guy in this league that compares to him is Adrian Peterson. But poor AP has been mired in Minny. AP has better lateral motion, DMC has better hands. Talent wise, they are the two best of the modern day crop of NFL RBs.
DMC is the same, but bigger with less lateral agility. DMC has some side movement, moreso than he is given credit, but not like McCoy's. But DMC has greater home run speed and power. Much greater power. Dude runs angry, but also with a good instincts for the rhythm and timing of the game. He's not just a duck his head bull rusher. He looks for the right opportunities to truck defenders.
When you watch them all play, DMC has been the guy that's jumped off the screen this year. The only guy in this league that compares to him is Adrian Peterson. But poor AP has been mired in Minny. AP has better lateral motion, DMC has better hands. Talent wise, they are the two best of the modern day crop of NFL RBs.
Raiderfan32904
Footballguy
Oh boy...words escape me.
Raiderfan32904
Footballguy
Again, why do you insist on bringing up the JaMarcus Russel led Raider team, as if that had any relvance? Why not compare the Curtis Painter led Colts to the Peyton Manning led Colts while you're at it?
Concept Coop
Footballguy
I bet that happens often.Oh boy...words escape me.
