Is fracking dangerous? (1 Viewer)

[jonessed]

OK, can we keep fracking but make the injection of waste water into the earth illegal? Would that be acceptable to those of you who are concerned about this?

Tim ,you really need to watch Showtimes ''Years of living Dangerously'' series...you would love it.

OK, but in the meantime, how would answer the above question?

im far more concerned with the amount of Methane that escapes during fracking...i think fracking as its done now should be stopped immediately.

Right. No oil drilling, no coal, no natural gas fracking, no nuclear. We should just run the country on moonbeams and rainbows.

 

[BustedKnuckles]

OK, can we keep fracking but make the injection of waste water into the earth illegal? Would that be acceptable to those of you who are concerned about this?

Tim ,you really need to watch Showtimes ''Years of living Dangerously'' series...you would love it.

OK, but in the meantime, how would answer the above question?

im far more concerned with the amount of Methane that escapes during fracking...i think fracking as its done now should be stopped immediately.

Right. No oil drilling, no coal, no natural gas fracking, no nuclear. We should just run the country on moonbeams and rainbows.

close...wind and solar

 

[Rich Conway]

OK, can we keep fracking but make the injection of waste water into the earth illegal? Would that be acceptable to those of you who are concerned about this?

Nope. Still sounds like a bad idea to me, and one that clearly hasn't yet been proven safe.

 

[Rove!]

You can download the New York state Study from here

http://breakingenergy.com/documents/ny-state-releases-fracking-report/

 

[TobiasFunke]

I'm curious if anyone has had actual fracking controversies in their area.

Down here in a rural parish north of the Lake & NO, St. Tammany, there has been exactly that.

St. Tammany is as GOP and super-conservative as it gets. It is the heart of the West Florida parishes and it would have probably been a campaign issue if one of their reps had voted against oil or gas interests at any point.

However most recently there has been a huge outcry when a fracking company actually tried to start digging up there. The St. Tammany Parish council was caught napping as the controversy erupted, and in an ultimate surprise was forced to hold off permitting until things could be sorted out.

What's more the national GOP has caught wind of it and has sent a scathing letter to the council essentially calling them turncoats. Not sure how this will work out but this is a classic NIMBY situation.

You sure it's a gas fracking play? There's no shale formations in southern Louisiana. The only shale in the area is a formation up north along the Texas border. Link

 

[SaintsInDome2006]

I'm curious if anyone has had actual fracking controversies in their area.

Down here in a rural parish north of the Lake & NO, St. Tammany, there has been exactly that.

St. Tammany is as GOP and super-conservative as it gets. It is the heart of the West Florida parishes and it would have probably been a campaign issue if one of their reps had voted against oil or gas interests at any point.

However most recently there has been a huge outcry when a fracking company actually tried to start digging up there. The St. Tammany Parish council was caught napping as the controversy erupted, and in an ultimate surprise was forced to hold off permitting until things could be sorted out.

What's more the national GOP has caught wind of it and has sent a scathing letter to the council essentially calling them turncoats. Not sure how this will work out but this is a classic NIMBY situation.

You sure it's a gas fracking play? There's no shale formations in southern Louisiana. The only shale in the area is a formation up north along the Texas border. Link

Well I'm not sure of the details, here's a somewhat dated HuffPo article on it.

I just know there is a fracking controversy north of the Lake. Something's down there that this company wants to get to.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/susan-buchanan/st-tammany-parish-residen_b_5306339.html

ETA - apparently it is a formation that has been worked for a while now:

The site is in the far east of the Tuscaloosa Marine Shale deposit, extending from east Texas through central Louisiana to the top of the Pelican State's boot and southwestern Mississippi. Half a dozen companies are fracking St. Helena, the Felicianas and other Louisiana parishes northwest of St. Tammany now, along with Wilkinsin and Amite Counties in Mississippi. Helis is the first firm to propose fracking in St. Tammany and residents are on the lookout for other operators. Groby said an oil and gas company acquired land south of Madisonville last summer but he's heard nothing about its plans.

 

[timschochet]

OK, can we keep fracking but make the injection of waste water into the earth illegal? Would that be acceptable to those of you who are concerned about this?

Nope. Still sounds like a bad idea to me, and one that clearly hasn't yet been proven safe.

Outside of the waste water, what is your specific concern?

 

[TobiasFunke]

The waste water causes the earthquakes...what does the release of methane cause?

Methane (CH4) is the second most prevalent greenhouse gas emitted in the United States from human activities.

Natural gas consists predominantly of methane. Even small leaks from the natural gas system are important because methane is a potent greenhouse gas—about 30 times more potent than carbon dioxide.

OK. So there's no specific danger you're concerned about- you would stop fracking because you believe it contributes to global warming?

The problem with the comparisons of methane to CO2 in terms of climate chance impact is that it's only one part of the equation. To properly evaluate the cost/benefit you'd need to compare the volume of methane emissions associated with drilling operations + CO2 emissions when you generate power from natural gas with the volume of CO2 emissions associated with the burning of coal (more than double that of natural gas at the generation point) and then multiply it by "potency."

It's a very complicated calculation, not a simple case of saying "Methane is more potent than CO2, therefore fracking is worse than burning coal." I haven't seen a trustworthy comparison yet. And that's before we get to the relative surface disturbance for each.

 

[TobiasFunke]

I'm curious if anyone has had actual fracking controversies in their area.

Down here in a rural parish north of the Lake & NO, St. Tammany, there has been exactly that.

St. Tammany is as GOP and super-conservative as it gets. It is the heart of the West Florida parishes and it would have probably been a campaign issue if one of their reps had voted against oil or gas interests at any point.

However most recently there has been a huge outcry when a fracking company actually tried to start digging up there. The St. Tammany Parish council was caught napping as the controversy erupted, and in an ultimate surprise was forced to hold off permitting until things could be sorted out.

What's more the national GOP has caught wind of it and has sent a scathing letter to the council essentially calling them turncoats. Not sure how this will work out but this is a classic NIMBY situation.

You sure it's a gas fracking play? There's no shale formations in southern Louisiana. The only shale in the area is a formation up north along the Texas border. Link

Well I'm not sure of the details, here's a somewhat dated HuffPo article on it.

I just know there is a fracking controversy north of the Lake. Something's down there that this company wants to get to.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/susan-buchanan/st-tammany-parish-residen_b_5306339.html

ETA - apparently it is a formation that has been worked for a while now:

The site is in the far east of the Tuscaloosa Marine Shale deposit, extending from east Texas through central Louisiana to the top of the Pelican State's boot and southwestern Mississippi. Half a dozen companies are fracking St. Helena, the Felicianas and other Louisiana parishes northwest of St. Tammany now, along with Wilkinsin and Amite Counties in Mississippi. Helis is the first firm to propose fracking in St. Tammany and residents are on the lookout for other operators. Groby said an oil and gas company acquired land south of Madisonville last summer but he's heard nothing about its plans.

Yup that's the one on the map I linked, along the LA/Texas border.

 

[timschochet]

But it just doesn't make sense to me to ban fracking over climate change issues when it represents such a small overall impact compared to our coal and oil extractions. Now if the methane produced represents some more immediate and specific danger that's different- does it?

 

[SaintsInDome2006]

I'm curious if anyone has had actual fracking controversies in their area.

Down here in a rural parish north of the Lake & NO, St. Tammany, there has been exactly that.

St. Tammany is as GOP and super-conservative as it gets. It is the heart of the West Florida parishes and it would have probably been a campaign issue if one of their reps had voted against oil or gas interests at any point.

However most recently there has been a huge outcry when a fracking company actually tried to start digging up there. The St. Tammany Parish council was caught napping as the controversy erupted, and in an ultimate surprise was forced to hold off permitting until things could be sorted out.

What's more the national GOP has caught wind of it and has sent a scathing letter to the council essentially calling them turncoats. Not sure how this will work out but this is a classic NIMBY situation.

You sure it's a gas fracking play? There's no shale formations in southern Louisiana. The only shale in the area is a formation up north along the Texas border. Link

Well I'm not sure of the details, here's a somewhat dated HuffPo article on it.

I just know there is a fracking controversy north of the Lake. Something's down there that this company wants to get to.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/susan-buchanan/st-tammany-parish-residen_b_5306339.html

ETA - apparently it is a formation that has been worked for a while now:

The site is in the far east of the Tuscaloosa Marine Shale deposit, extending from east Texas through central Louisiana to the top of the Pelican State's boot and southwestern Mississippi. Half a dozen companies are fracking St. Helena, the Felicianas and other Louisiana parishes northwest of St. Tammany now, along with Wilkinsin and Amite Counties in Mississippi. Helis is the first firm to propose fracking in St. Tammany and residents are on the lookout for other operators. Groby said an oil and gas company acquired land south of Madisonville last summer but he's heard nothing about its plans.

Yup that's the one on the map I linked, along the LA/Texas border.

Well you tell me, I don;t know. It sounds different but maybe it's just a different arm of the Haynesville?

In a May 1 meeting, the St. Tammany Parish Council decided to hire an attorney familiar with fracking and is searching for one now. The council wants the lawyer to examine whether the parish's responsibility to protect the health and safety of its residents can override state laws allowing fracking, Groby said. State laws prevent local authorities from prohibiting drilling authorized by Baton Rouge.

St. Tammany's water resources differ from those in the Haynesville Shale deposit near Shreveport, La., where wells use water delivered from the Red River and Sabine River, chemist Wilma Subra, president of Subra Company in New Iberia, La. said last week. But whether land is fracked in northwest or southeast Louisiana, heavily contaminated water from the process returns to the surface, she said.

Looking at the map, if it's the same formation, it would just have to extend the shading down below that notch in the LA/MS border, the toe in the boot as it were.

Jindal btw is a complete, absolute tool of the oil industry here.

 

[TobiasFunke]

But it just doesn't make sense to me to ban fracking over climate change issues when it represents such a small overall impact compared to our coal and oil extractions. Now if the methane produced represents some more immediate and specific danger that's different- does it?

It seeps into wells. Drinking methane-contaminated water isn't dangerous as far as anyone knows, but at some point it would be combustible, and fire is kinda dangerous.

The EPA's new rules effective in 2015 on methane escapes during flowback should help. Basically, that's what's needed- more safety restrictions and monitoring of the practice. Beyond that, IMO it should be up to the communities to strike a balance between the danger and disruptive nature of fracking operations and the jobs and royalties that come with it. Pennsylvania seems to lean towards the latter. New York not so much. Works for me.

 

[timschochet]

Regarding your last statement, Saints: outside of Huey Long, has there ever been a governor of Lpuisiana who WASN'T "good friends" with the oil companies? I thought the two went hand in hand.

 

[timschochet]

But it just doesn't make sense to me to ban fracking over climate change issues when it represents such a small overall impact compared to our coal and oil extractions. Now if the methane produced represents some more immediate and specific danger that's different- does it?

It seeps into wells. Drinking methane-contaminated water isn't dangerous as far as anyone knows, but at some point it would be combustible, and fire is kinda dangerous.

The EPA's new rules effective in 2015 on methane escapes during flowback should help. Basically, that's what's needed- more safety restrictions and monitoring of the practice. Beyond that, IMO it should be up to the communities to strike a balance between the danger and disruptive nature of fracking operations and the jobs and royalties that come with it. Pennsylvania seems to lean towards the latter. New York not so much. Works for me.

Fair enough.

 

[TobiasFunke]

I'm curious if anyone has had actual fracking controversies in their area.

Down here in a rural parish north of the Lake & NO, St. Tammany, there has been exactly that.

St. Tammany is as GOP and super-conservative as it gets. It is the heart of the West Florida parishes and it would have probably been a campaign issue if one of their reps had voted against oil or gas interests at any point.

However most recently there has been a huge outcry when a fracking company actually tried to start digging up there. The St. Tammany Parish council was caught napping as the controversy erupted, and in an ultimate surprise was forced to hold off permitting until things could be sorted out.

What's more the national GOP has caught wind of it and has sent a scathing letter to the council essentially calling them turncoats. Not sure how this will work out but this is a classic NIMBY situation.

You sure it's a gas fracking play? There's no shale formations in southern Louisiana. The only shale in the area is a formation up north along the Texas border. Link

Well I'm not sure of the details, here's a somewhat dated HuffPo article on it.

I just know there is a fracking controversy north of the Lake. Something's down there that this company wants to get to.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/susan-buchanan/st-tammany-parish-residen_b_5306339.html

ETA - apparently it is a formation that has been worked for a while now:

The site is in the far east of the Tuscaloosa Marine Shale deposit, extending from east Texas through central Louisiana to the top of the Pelican State's boot and southwestern Mississippi. Half a dozen companies are fracking St. Helena, the Felicianas and other Louisiana parishes northwest of St. Tammany now, along with Wilkinsin and Amite Counties in Mississippi. Helis is the first firm to propose fracking in St. Tammany and residents are on the lookout for other operators. Groby said an oil and gas company acquired land south of Madisonville last summer but he's heard nothing about its plans.

Yup that's the one on the map I linked, along the LA/Texas border.

Well you tell me, I don;t know. It sounds different but maybe it's just a different arm of the Haynesville?

In a May 1 meeting, the St. Tammany Parish Council decided to hire an attorney familiar with fracking and is searching for one now. The council wants the lawyer to examine whether the parish's responsibility to protect the health and safety of its residents can override state laws allowing fracking, Groby said. State laws prevent local authorities from prohibiting drilling authorized by Baton Rouge.

St. Tammany's water resources differ from those in the Haynesville Shale deposit near Shreveport, La., where wells use water delivered from the Red River and Sabine River, chemist Wilma Subra, president of Subra Company in New Iberia, La. said last week. But whether land is fracked in northwest or southeast Louisiana, heavily contaminated water from the process returns to the surface, she said.

Looking at the map, if it's the same formation, it would just have to extend the shading down below that notch in the LA/MS border, the toe in the boot as it were.

Jindal btw is a complete, absolute tool of the oil industry here.

Sounds like it's the same formation contaminating the water in a different locale somehow?

The question of whether local communities can override state policy is the next big question in fracking. NY just decided in favor of the local communities being able to zone it out, but every state is dealing with different laws and a different constitution.

 

[SaintsInDome2006]

Regarding your last statement, Saints: outside of Huey Long, has there ever been a governor of Lpuisiana who WASN'T "good friends" with the oil companies? I thought the two went hand in hand.

That is absolutely true, except what you say about Long.

Give you an example: Huey and his friends created a company that handed over state oil royalties to a private company held by him and a tight band of politico friends. The royalties go to their heirs.

The State Legislature still won't revoke it, a group of maybe 3-4 legislators keep it from ever getting out of committee.

There are other stories like that. Earl Long, Huey's royal successor, cut a deal with local segregationists Ellender and Perez to forgo state royalties in a similar deal. That one has cost the state well over $100 billion and it's probably a rolling number way above that really. -- People were all aware of this after the storm and were sick and tired of it. Jindal has really put himself out there, exposed his allegiance that is pretty remarkable in my view though. He ran on 'change'.

 

[Sand]

close...wind and solar

 

[beer 30]

I cant imagine fracking is causing true earthquakes. They dont go that deep or have enough power to move plates.

Im guessing its just localized vibtations from gas pockets shifting. Seismometers wouldnt be able to tell an earthquake from a smaller vibration closer to the surface

Are you a geologist?

I said this was what I imagine

Logically they couldnt be causing the types of earthquakes caused by tectonics or volcanos. Thats what I consider true earthquakes

Do you also believe Jan Michael Vincent was a great actor?

Woah, this just got real for me. Re-watching White Line Fever TONIGHT!

 

[Rich Conway]

OK, can we keep fracking but make the injection of waste water into the earth illegal? Would that be acceptable to those of you who are concerned about this?

Nope. Still sounds like a bad idea to me, and one that clearly hasn't yet been proven safe.

Outside of the waste water, what is your specific concern?

I don't believe we've proven that waste water is the only earthquake issue. I don't believe we've proven that fracking isn't causing water supply contamination. In summary, I don't think there's been anywhere close to enough research on the potential damage.

 

[worrierking]

A note on Methane. It is a very potent greenhouse gas, about 30 times more powerful than CO2. However, it only remains in the atmosphere for a little over 12 years before breaking down, so the potential for warming from methane is only short-term, not long-term like CO2 which stays in the atmosphere for centuries, That's why the focus has been on CO2; it's more of a threat due to how long it remains.

Newer wells reduce the amount of gas escaping from production facilities. The recent study from the journal Science found that many older facilities emitted more methane than previously estimated (in fact a lot more at several really poorly performing sites.). Since producers have a built-in financial reason to capture as much methane as possible, it's not likely that this will continue to be a problem.

 

[FlapJacks]

http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/U/US_GAS_DRILLING_WATER_CONTAMINATION?SITE=MYPSP&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT&CTIME=2014-09-16-15-05-47

Landmark fracking study finds no water pollution

 

[joffer]

http://thinkprogress.org/climate/2014/09/16/3568090/direct-link-between-earthquakes-and-fracking-process/

Link to actual study is in there

 

[Rich Conway]

http://www.rollingstone.com/culture/features/fracking-whats-killing-the-babies-of-vernal-utah-20150622

Yes, fracking is dangerous.

 

[sbonomo]

http://www.rollingstone.com/culture/features/fracking-whats-killing-the-babies-of-vernal-utah-20150622

Yes, fracking is dangerous.

Ya Rolling Stone has a great track record of completing their due diligence prior to publishing something - https://forums.footballguys.com/forum/index.php?/topic/726202-writer-of-rolling-stone-article-on-alleged-rape-apologizes/

 

[BustedKnuckles]

http://www.rollingstone.com/culture/features/fracking-whats-killing-the-babies-of-vernal-utah-20150622

Yes, fracking is dangerous.

Ya Rolling Stone has a great track record of completing their due diligence prior to publishing something - https://forums.footballguys.com/forum/index.php?/topic/726202-writer-of-rolling-stone-article-on-alleged-rape-apologizes/

thats one story out of thousands that went the wrong way...is everything they write a potential lawsuit waiting to happen? just wondering. Id guess after that fiasco they tightened up the ship...i believe that story about the fracking ...its crazy whats happening

 

[MaxThreshold]

http://thinkprogress.org/climate/2014/09/16/3568090/direct-link-between-earthquakes-and-fracking-process/

Link to actual study is in there

Think-#######-progress? Really?

 

[Rich Conway]

http://thinkprogress.org/climate/2014/09/16/3568090/direct-link-between-earthquakes-and-fracking-process/

Link to actual study is in there

Think-#######-progress? Really?

Regardless of the source, I don't think there's any doubt at this point that fracking is causing earthquakes.

 

[FlapJacks]

Why does it feel like a good percentage of you are always rooting against cheaper cleaner homegrown energy....

 

[joffer]

http://thinkprogress.org/climate/2014/09/16/3568090/direct-link-between-earthquakes-and-fracking-process/

Link to actual study is in there

Think-#######-progress? Really?

youre a piece of work