Is fracking dangerous? (1 Viewer)

[MaxThreshold]

If we did everything the environmentalists wanted, pretty soon the earth would have the same number of inhabitants as it did in Neolithic times, and we'd be hunter gatherers again.

Exaggerate much?

How is that an exaggeration? Sounds spot on to me.

 

[rascal]

The earthquake registered a magnitude 5.7*—the largest ever recorded in Oklahoma—with its epicenter less than two miles from the Reneaus' house, which took six months to rebuild. It injured two people, destroyed 14 homes, toppled headstones, closed schools, and was felt in 17 states. It was preceded by a 4.7 foreshock the morning prior and followed by a 4.7 aftershock.

The quake baffled seismologists. The only possible culprit was the Wilzetta Fault, a 320-million-year-old rift lurking between Prague and nearby Meeker. "But the Wilzetta was a dead fault that nobody ever worried about," says Katie Keranen, an assistant professor of geophysics at the University of Oklahoma. We're driving in her red SUV, just south of the Reneaus' property, when she stops to point out where the quake tore open a footwide fissure across State Highway 62. The United States Geological Survey (USGS) maintains a database of seismically risky areas. Its assessment of the Wilzetta Fault, Keranen notes, was "zero probability of expected ground motion. This fault is like an extinct volcano. It should never have been active."

When the Wilzetta mysteriously and violently awakened, Keranen wanted to know why. So she partnered with scientists from the USGS and Columbia University's Lamont-Doherty Earth Observatory. The morning after the initial foreshock, Keranen's team scrambled to install three seismometers around Prague. They did so in time to capture the quake system in unprecedented detail. She says, "We got this beautiful image of the fault plane." Within a week, her team and other scientists had placed a total of 25 devices around the fault zone. One is buried in the Reneaus' backyard. Now, having completed a yearlong study (just published in the journal Geology), Keranen's research indicates the Oklahoma earthquakes were likely attributable to underground injection of wastewater derived from "dewatering," separating crude oil from the soupy brine reaped through a drilling technique that allows previously inaccessible oil to be pumped up. "Pretty much everybody who looks at our data accepts that these events were likely caused by injection," Keranen concludes.

Such seismic activity isn't normal here. Between 1972 and 2008, the USGS recorded just a few earthquakes a year in Oklahoma. In 2008, there were more than a dozen; nearly 50 occurred in 2009. In 2010, the number exploded to more than 1,000. These so-called "earthquake swarms" are occurring in other places where the ground is not supposed to move. There have been abrupt upticks in both the size and frequency of quakes in Arkansas, Colorado, Ohio, and Texas. Scientists investigating these anomalies are coming to the same conclusion: The quakes are linked to injection wells. Into most of them goes wastewater from hydraulic fracking, while some, as those in Prague, are filled with leftover fluid from dewatering operations.

Mother Jones

Oh and I'll just bet all that waste water is just peachy to be in the aquifer. Sounds delish.

Yeap. Regarding the waste water, several homes NE of Edmond have had to shutoff their wells due to contamination.

 

[The General]

I frack everyday. It feels good.

Self fracking doesn't count.

 

[rascal]

It may coincidental, but since they started fracking our number of earthquakes has gone up SIGNIFICANTLY. My bosses house was almost destroyed by a ~5.0 18 months ago, and we've had weekly 3.0-3.5 when we had none previously. The insurance companies are no longer offering coverage, or offering outrageous rates (i.e. to add it doubles your premium).

Where do you live, Rascal? And how much fracking is going on there?

I live in Edmond OK. A LOT!!!!

Looks like my 18 months ago was off....didn't realize it had been that long (late 2011).

 

[The General]

If we did everything the environmentalists wanted, pretty soon the earth would have the same number of inhabitants as it did in Neolithic times, and we'd be hunter gatherers again.

Exaggerate much?

How is that an exaggeration? Sounds spot on to me.

Yes. Every environmentalist wants us to live in the Stone Age you are absolutely correct.

 

[Slapdash]

The earthquake registered a magnitude 5.7*—the largest ever recorded in Oklahoma—with its epicenter less than two miles from the Reneaus' house, which took six months to rebuild. It injured two people, destroyed 14 homes, toppled headstones, closed schools, and was felt in 17 states. It was preceded by a 4.7 foreshock the morning prior and followed by a 4.7 aftershock.

The quake baffled seismologists. The only possible culprit was the Wilzetta Fault, a 320-million-year-old rift lurking between Prague and nearby Meeker. "But the Wilzetta was a dead fault that nobody ever worried about," says Katie Keranen, an assistant professor of geophysics at the University of Oklahoma. We're driving in her red SUV, just south of the Reneaus' property, when she stops to point out where the quake tore open a footwide fissure across State Highway 62. The United States Geological Survey (USGS) maintains a database of seismically risky areas. Its assessment of the Wilzetta Fault, Keranen notes, was "zero probability of expected ground motion. This fault is like an extinct volcano. It should never have been active."

When the Wilzetta mysteriously and violently awakened, Keranen wanted to know why. So she partnered with scientists from the USGS and Columbia University's Lamont-Doherty Earth Observatory. The morning after the initial foreshock, Keranen's team scrambled to install three seismometers around Prague. They did so in time to capture the quake system in unprecedented detail. She says, "We got this beautiful image of the fault plane." Within a week, her team and other scientists had placed a total of 25 devices around the fault zone. One is buried in the Reneaus' backyard. Now, having completed a yearlong study (just published in the journal Geology), Keranen's research indicates the Oklahoma earthquakes were likely attributable to underground injection of wastewater derived from "dewatering," separating crude oil from the soupy brine reaped through a drilling technique that allows previously inaccessible oil to be pumped up. "Pretty much everybody who looks at our data accepts that these events were likely caused by injection," Keranen concludes.

Such seismic activity isn't normal here. Between 1972 and 2008, the USGS recorded just a few earthquakes a year in Oklahoma. In 2008, there were more than a dozen; nearly 50 occurred in 2009. In 2010, the number exploded to more than 1,000. These so-called "earthquake swarms" are occurring in other places where the ground is not supposed to move. There have been abrupt upticks in both the size and frequency of quakes in Arkansas, Colorado, Ohio, and Texas. Scientists investigating these anomalies are coming to the same conclusion: The quakes are linked to injection wells. Into most of them goes wastewater from hydraulic fracking, while some, as those in Prague, are filled with leftover fluid from dewatering operations.

Mother Jones

Oh and I'll just bet all that waste water is just peachy to be in the aquifer. Sounds delish.

I'd be interested to see if any of our conservative friends have studies that dispute the USGS's findings, like was implied earlier.

 

[timschochet]

If we did everything the environmentalists wanted, pretty soon the earth would have the same number of inhabitants as it did in Neolithic times, and we'd be hunter gatherers again. That would be fine by them, and perhaps fine by some of the posters here.

Actuallly I agree with you- about some of them at least. But that doesn't necessarily mean they're wrong about fracking. It seems to me that we're far too often motivated in our responses by our reactions to the people who deliver the facts, rather than the facts themselves.

 

[rascal]

The earthquake registered a magnitude 5.7*—the largest ever recorded in Oklahoma—with its epicenter less than two miles from the Reneaus' house, which took six months to rebuild. It injured two people, destroyed 14 homes, toppled headstones, closed schools, and was felt in 17 states. It was preceded by a 4.7 foreshock the morning prior and followed by a 4.7 aftershock.

The quake baffled seismologists. The only possible culprit was the Wilzetta Fault, a 320-million-year-old rift lurking between Prague and nearby Meeker. "But the Wilzetta was a dead fault that nobody ever worried about," says Katie Keranen, an assistant professor of geophysics at the University of Oklahoma. We're driving in her red SUV, just south of the Reneaus' property, when she stops to point out where the quake tore open a footwide fissure across State Highway 62. The United States Geological Survey (USGS) maintains a database of seismically risky areas. Its assessment of the Wilzetta Fault, Keranen notes, was "zero probability of expected ground motion. This fault is like an extinct volcano. It should never have been active."

When the Wilzetta mysteriously and violently awakened, Keranen wanted to know why. So she partnered with scientists from the USGS and Columbia University's Lamont-Doherty Earth Observatory. The morning after the initial foreshock, Keranen's team scrambled to install three seismometers around Prague. They did so in time to capture the quake system in unprecedented detail. She says, "We got this beautiful image of the fault plane." Within a week, her team and other scientists had placed a total of 25 devices around the fault zone. One is buried in the Reneaus' backyard. Now, having completed a yearlong study (just published in the journal Geology), Keranen's research indicates the Oklahoma earthquakes were likely attributable to underground injection of wastewater derived from "dewatering," separating crude oil from the soupy brine reaped through a drilling technique that allows previously inaccessible oil to be pumped up. "Pretty much everybody who looks at our data accepts that these events were likely caused by injection," Keranen concludes.

Such seismic activity isn't normal here. Between 1972 and 2008, the USGS recorded just a few earthquakes a year in Oklahoma. In 2008, there were more than a dozen; nearly 50 occurred in 2009. In 2010, the number exploded to more than 1,000. These so-called "earthquake swarms" are occurring in other places where the ground is not supposed to move. There have been abrupt upticks in both the size and frequency of quakes in Arkansas, Colorado, Ohio, and Texas. Scientists investigating these anomalies are coming to the same conclusion: The quakes are linked to injection wells. Into most of them goes wastewater from hydraulic fracking, while some, as those in Prague, are filled with leftover fluid from dewatering operations.

Mother Jones

Oh and I'll just bet all that waste water is just peachy to be in the aquifer. Sounds delish.

I'd be interested to see if any of our conservative friends have studies that dispute the USGS's findings, like was implied earlier.

http://www.edmondsun.com/x1267062872/Is-Arcadia-Lake-linked-to-recent-earthquakes

http://wnow.worldnow.com/story/23899666/latest-swarm-of-ok-earthquakes-could-be-tied-to-lake-acardia

recent earthquakes in OKC area:

http://www.okgeosurvey1.gov/pages/earthquakes/recent-earthquakes.php

 

[MaxThreshold]

If we did everything the environmentalists wanted, pretty soon the earth would have the same number of inhabitants as it did in Neolithic times, and we'd be hunter gatherers again.

Exaggerate much?

How is that an exaggeration? Sounds spot on to me.

Yes. Every environmentalist wants us to live in the Stone Age you are absolutely correct.

Was it really that hard to grasp? Glad you're able to come around on the issue.

 

[drummer]

The earthquake registered a magnitude 5.7*—the largest ever recorded in Oklahoma—with its epicenter less than two miles from the Reneaus' house, which took six months to rebuild. It injured two people, destroyed 14 homes, toppled headstones, closed schools, and was felt in 17 states. It was preceded by a 4.7 foreshock the morning prior and followed by a 4.7 aftershock.

The quake baffled seismologists. The only possible culprit was the Wilzetta Fault, a 320-million-year-old rift lurking between Prague and nearby Meeker. "But the Wilzetta was a dead fault that nobody ever worried about," says Katie Keranen, an assistant professor of geophysics at the University of Oklahoma. We're driving in her red SUV, just south of the Reneaus' property, when she stops to point out where the quake tore open a footwide fissure across State Highway 62. The United States Geological Survey (USGS) maintains a database of seismically risky areas. Its assessment of the Wilzetta Fault, Keranen notes, was "zero probability of expected ground motion. This fault is like an extinct volcano. It should never have been active."

When the Wilzetta mysteriously and violently awakened, Keranen wanted to know why. So she partnered with scientists from the USGS and Columbia University's Lamont-Doherty Earth Observatory. The morning after the initial foreshock, Keranen's team scrambled to install three seismometers around Prague. They did so in time to capture the quake system in unprecedented detail. She says, "We got this beautiful image of the fault plane." Within a week, her team and other scientists had placed a total of 25 devices around the fault zone. One is buried in the Reneaus' backyard. Now, having completed a yearlong study (just published in the journal Geology), Keranen's research indicates the Oklahoma earthquakes were likely attributable to underground injection of wastewater derived from "dewatering," separating crude oil from the soupy brine reaped through a drilling technique that allows previously inaccessible oil to be pumped up. "Pretty much everybody who looks at our data accepts that these events were likely caused by injection," Keranen concludes.

Such seismic activity isn't normal here. Between 1972 and 2008, the USGS recorded just a few earthquakes a year in Oklahoma. In 2008, there were more than a dozen; nearly 50 occurred in 2009. In 2010, the number exploded to more than 1,000. These so-called "earthquake swarms" are occurring in other places where the ground is not supposed to move. There have been abrupt upticks in both the size and frequency of quakes in Arkansas, Colorado, Ohio, and Texas. Scientists investigating these anomalies are coming to the same conclusion: The quakes are linked to injection wells. Into most of them goes wastewater from hydraulic fracking, while some, as those in Prague, are filled with leftover fluid from dewatering operations.

Mother Jones

Oh and I'll just bet all that waste water is just peachy to be in the aquifer. Sounds delish.

I'd be interested to see if any of our conservative friends have studies that dispute the USGS's findings, like was implied earlier.

http://www.edmondsun.com/x1267062872/Is-Arcadia-Lake-linked-to-recent-earthquakes

http://wnow.worldnow.com/story/23899666/latest-swarm-of-ok-earthquakes-could-be-tied-to-lake-acardia

recent earthquakes in OKC area:

http://www.okgeosurvey1.gov/pages/earthquakes/recent-earthquakes.php

Welcome to our world.

Sincerely, California

 

[Slapdash]

The earthquake registered a magnitude 5.7*—the largest ever recorded in Oklahoma—with its epicenter less than two miles from the Reneaus' house, which took six months to rebuild. It injured two people, destroyed 14 homes, toppled headstones, closed schools, and was felt in 17 states. It was preceded by a 4.7 foreshock the morning prior and followed by a 4.7 aftershock.

The quake baffled seismologists. The only possible culprit was the Wilzetta Fault, a 320-million-year-old rift lurking between Prague and nearby Meeker. "But the Wilzetta was a dead fault that nobody ever worried about," says Katie Keranen, an assistant professor of geophysics at the University of Oklahoma. We're driving in her red SUV, just south of the Reneaus' property, when she stops to point out where the quake tore open a footwide fissure across State Highway 62. The United States Geological Survey (USGS) maintains a database of seismically risky areas. Its assessment of the Wilzetta Fault, Keranen notes, was "zero probability of expected ground motion. This fault is like an extinct volcano. It should never have been active."

When the Wilzetta mysteriously and violently awakened, Keranen wanted to know why. So she partnered with scientists from the USGS and Columbia University's Lamont-Doherty Earth Observatory. The morning after the initial foreshock, Keranen's team scrambled to install three seismometers around Prague. They did so in time to capture the quake system in unprecedented detail. She says, "We got this beautiful image of the fault plane." Within a week, her team and other scientists had placed a total of 25 devices around the fault zone. One is buried in the Reneaus' backyard. Now, having completed a yearlong study (just published in the journal Geology), Keranen's research indicates the Oklahoma earthquakes were likely attributable to underground injection of wastewater derived from "dewatering," separating crude oil from the soupy brine reaped through a drilling technique that allows previously inaccessible oil to be pumped up. "Pretty much everybody who looks at our data accepts that these events were likely caused by injection," Keranen concludes.

Such seismic activity isn't normal here. Between 1972 and 2008, the USGS recorded just a few earthquakes a year in Oklahoma. In 2008, there were more than a dozen; nearly 50 occurred in 2009. In 2010, the number exploded to more than 1,000. These so-called "earthquake swarms" are occurring in other places where the ground is not supposed to move. There have been abrupt upticks in both the size and frequency of quakes in Arkansas, Colorado, Ohio, and Texas. Scientists investigating these anomalies are coming to the same conclusion: The quakes are linked to injection wells. Into most of them goes wastewater from hydraulic fracking, while some, as those in Prague, are filled with leftover fluid from dewatering operations.

Mother Jones

Oh and I'll just bet all that waste water is just peachy to be in the aquifer. Sounds delish.

I'd be interested to see if any of our conservative friends have studies that dispute the USGS's findings, like was implied earlier.

http://www.edmondsun.com/x1267062872/Is-Arcadia-Lake-linked-to-recent-earthquakes

http://wnow.worldnow.com/story/23899666/latest-swarm-of-ok-earthquakes-could-be-tied-to-lake-acardia

recent earthquakes in OKC area:

http://www.okgeosurvey1.gov/pages/earthquakes/recent-earthquakes.php

Interesting, thank you. Here is what the Mojo article has to say about the OGS:

Keranen, too, juggles conflicting interests. When we talk, she occasionally cuts herself off mid-sentence and then confesses, apologetically, "I have to be careful what I say." Her research on the Prague quakes hasn't been published and she seems concerned it might antagonize those who will decide on her academic tenure. Randy Keller is the chair of the University of Oklahoma's ConocoPhillips School of Geology and Geophysics. In 2007, the energy behemoth donated $6 million to the university, earning it top billing. Keller is also director of the Oklahoma Geological Survey, which has a mandate to "promote wise use of Oklahoma's natural resources." Such alliances make it difficult for him to point fingers. In December 2011, the OGS published an official position statement on induced seismicity, emphasizing that quakes could easily originate through natural dynamics and that "a rush to judgment" would be "harmful to state, public, and industry interests."

When I emailed Keller in October to inquire whether the OGS had modified its assessment in the face of Keranen's findings, he replied, "We do feel that the location of these events…the nature of the aftershock sequence, and the focal mechanisms can be explained by a natural event." A few hours later, he sent me a follow-up. "I wonder if you understand what I was trying to say. We have never flatly said that the injection wells did not trigger the earthquakes. Our opinion is that we do not yet have the data and research results to make a definitive statement about this issue." Keranen walks the same line, saying that her study will show that wastewater injection "very potentially" roused the Wilzetta Fault. Politics aside, there's widespread scientific consensus that unregulated wastewater injection presents a serious risk to public safety. "We're seeing mid-5.0 earthquakes, and they've caused significant damage," Rubinstein says. "We're beyond nuisance."

I'm sure you have more incentive to look into this than most of us. Where do you land on it?

 

[The General]

If we did everything the environmentalists wanted, pretty soon the earth would have the same number of inhabitants as it did in Neolithic times, and we'd be hunter gatherers again.

Exaggerate much?

How is that an exaggeration? Sounds spot on to me.

Yes. Every environmentalist wants us to live in the Stone Age you are absolutely correct.

Was it really that hard to grasp? Glad you're able to come around on the issue.

Let's just say most "environmentalists" are somewhere between Eco-Terrorists and people who just want to have clean water and air.

 

[ydoc]

mother jones as a source....seriously....

they don't even know how estimated taxes work....

frack them...

 

[rascal]

The earthquake registered a magnitude 5.7*—the largest ever recorded in Oklahoma—with its epicenter less than two miles from the Reneaus' house, which took six months to rebuild. It injured two people, destroyed 14 homes, toppled headstones, closed schools, and was felt in 17 states. It was preceded by a 4.7 foreshock the morning prior and followed by a 4.7 aftershock.

The quake baffled seismologists. The only possible culprit was the Wilzetta Fault, a 320-million-year-old rift lurking between Prague and nearby Meeker. "But the Wilzetta was a dead fault that nobody ever worried about," says Katie Keranen, an assistant professor of geophysics at the University of Oklahoma. We're driving in her red SUV, just south of the Reneaus' property, when she stops to point out where the quake tore open a footwide fissure across State Highway 62. The United States Geological Survey (USGS) maintains a database of seismically risky areas. Its assessment of the Wilzetta Fault, Keranen notes, was "zero probability of expected ground motion. This fault is like an extinct volcano. It should never have been active."

When the Wilzetta mysteriously and violently awakened, Keranen wanted to know why. So she partnered with scientists from the USGS and Columbia University's Lamont-Doherty Earth Observatory. The morning after the initial foreshock, Keranen's team scrambled to install three seismometers around Prague. They did so in time to capture the quake system in unprecedented detail. She says, "We got this beautiful image of the fault plane." Within a week, her team and other scientists had placed a total of 25 devices around the fault zone. One is buried in the Reneaus' backyard. Now, having completed a yearlong study (just published in the journal Geology), Keranen's research indicates the Oklahoma earthquakes were likely attributable to underground injection of wastewater derived from "dewatering," separating crude oil from the soupy brine reaped through a drilling technique that allows previously inaccessible oil to be pumped up. "Pretty much everybody who looks at our data accepts that these events were likely caused by injection," Keranen concludes.

Such seismic activity isn't normal here. Between 1972 and 2008, the USGS recorded just a few earthquakes a year in Oklahoma. In 2008, there were more than a dozen; nearly 50 occurred in 2009. In 2010, the number exploded to more than 1,000. These so-called "earthquake swarms" are occurring in other places where the ground is not supposed to move. There have been abrupt upticks in both the size and frequency of quakes in Arkansas, Colorado, Ohio, and Texas. Scientists investigating these anomalies are coming to the same conclusion: The quakes are linked to injection wells. Into most of them goes wastewater from hydraulic fracking, while some, as those in Prague, are filled with leftover fluid from dewatering operations.

Mother Jones

Oh and I'll just bet all that waste water is just peachy to be in the aquifer. Sounds delish.

I'd be interested to see if any of our conservative friends have studies that dispute the USGS's findings, like was implied earlier.

http://www.edmondsun.com/x1267062872/Is-Arcadia-Lake-linked-to-recent-earthquakes

http://wnow.worldnow.com/story/23899666/latest-swarm-of-ok-earthquakes-could-be-tied-to-lake-acardia

recent earthquakes in OKC area:

http://www.okgeosurvey1.gov/pages/earthquakes/recent-earthquakes.php

Interesting, thank you. Here is what the Mojo article has to say about the OGS:

Keranen, too, juggles conflicting interests. When we talk, she occasionally cuts herself off mid-sentence and then confesses, apologetically, "I have to be careful what I say." Her research on the Prague quakes hasn't been published and she seems concerned it might antagonize those who will decide on her academic tenure. Randy Keller is the chair of the University of Oklahoma's ConocoPhillips School of Geology and Geophysics. In 2007, the energy behemoth donated $6 million to the university, earning it top billing. Keller is also director of the Oklahoma Geological Survey, which has a mandate to "promote wise use of Oklahoma's natural resources." Such alliances make it difficult for him to point fingers. In December 2011, the OGS published an official position statement on induced seismicity, emphasizing that quakes could easily originate through natural dynamics and that "a rush to judgment" would be "harmful to state, public, and industry interests."

When I emailed Keller in October to inquire whether the OGS had modified its assessment in the face of Keranen's findings, he replied, "We do feel that the location of these events…the nature of the aftershock sequence, and the focal mechanisms can be explained by a natural event." A few hours later, he sent me a follow-up. "I wonder if you understand what I was trying to say. We have never flatly said that the injection wells did not trigger the earthquakes. Our opinion is that we do not yet have the data and research results to make a definitive statement about this issue." Keranen walks the same line, saying that her study will show that wastewater injection "very potentially" roused the Wilzetta Fault. Politics aside, there's widespread scientific consensus that unregulated wastewater injection presents a serious risk to public safety. "We're seeing mid-5.0 earthquakes, and they've caused significant damage," Rubinstein says. "We're beyond nuisance."

I'm sure you have more incentive to look into this than most of us. Where do you land on it?

I think our earthquakes are caused by fracking, but I also acknowledge that fracking is leading the way for America to be energy dependent and creating a lot of economic growth. At the same time, I am concerned that the earthquakes are causing damage as I think some of the cracks in my house are related (yes, I'm an engineer). As such, I am going to start researching the ongoing legal cases involving fracking (I think there is one in Arkansas and one in Texas). I'm equally pissed at the insurance companies for bending over Oklahoma when we've already been taken to town due to tornadoes.

 

[rascal]

mother jones as a source....seriously....

they don't even know how estimated taxes work....

frack them...

Source is questionable, but the article facts are not. Do you have something to suggest otherwise or just using a strawman argument?

 

[sheerterror]

Is anybody here in the drilling/fracking industry?

 

[rascal]

Predictably, the Arkansas case against Chesapeake was settled outside of court.

 

[rascal]

Is anybody here in the drilling/fracking industry?

A good friend of mine is in it. He is an engineer and has made more in 3 years than what I'll earn in 10.

 

[Doctor Detroit]

Saturn's moon Titan has huge lakes made of liquid methane. We need to find a way to use alternative fuels or find another source beyond earth, the damage will become irreversible at some point.

 

[drummer]

Saturn's moon Titan has huge lakes made of liquid methane. We need to find a way to use alternative fuels or find another source beyond earth, the damage will become irreversible at some point.

The Ice Pirates!

 

[rascal]

maybe we should submit the question to Obama...partly in jest as I've thought about it.

 

[timschochet]

Saturn's moon Titan has huge lakes made of liquid methane. We need to find a way to use alternative fuels or find another source beyond earth, the damage will become irreversible at some point.

Serious question- is there anything on our own moon that we could use?

 

[Doctor Detroit]

Saturn's moon Titan has huge lakes made of liquid methane. We need to find a way to use alternative fuels or find another source beyond earth, the damage will become irreversible at some point.

Serious question- is there anything on our own moon that we could use?

Just cheese.

 

[jonessed]

The real question is if it's safer than coal or nuclear, since those are the only other viable options for the bulk of our energy needs (at least for the next few decades).

OK. In your opinion, is it?

Coal mining is pretty hazardous. I think nuclear is the best option, but politics makes it a risky long-term investment.Fracking is going to continue to expand. The Democrats don't want coal because of Global Warming and expanding renewable energy to any significant amount would require a means of storing massive amounts of energy. Natural gas is the one energy source both sides can agree on.

 

[Dinsy Ejotuz]

I had no idea anyone was seriously arguing against the earthquake thing at this point.

Oklahomans aren't generally known as tree-huggers or anti-fossil fuels and they seem to be convinced.

 

[Mister CIA]

If we did everything the environmentalists wanted, pretty soon the earth would have the same number of inhabitants as it did in Neolithic times, and we'd be hunter gatherers again.

Exaggerate much?

How is that an exaggeration? Sounds spot on to me.

Yes. Every environmentalist wants us to live in the Stone Age you are absolutely correct.

Was it really that hard to grasp? Glad you're able to come around on the issue.

What I can't grasp is that conservationist is an antonym for conservative.

 

[Good Posting Judge]

It may coincidental, but since they started fracking our number of earthquakes has gone up SIGNIFICANTLY. My bosses house was almost destroyed by a ~5.0 in 2011, and we've had weekly 3.0-3.5 when we had none previously. The insurance companies are no longer offering coverage, or offering outrageous rates (i.e. to add it doubles your premium).

Earthquake insurance is usually a scam. I live in the heart of (natural) earthquake country, and you're kind of on your own.

I'd suggest looking into retrofitting your house.

 

[Good Posting Judge]

http://www.strongtie.com/literature/f-plans.html

 

[Bottomfeeder Sports]

I think our earthquakes are caused by fracking, but I also acknowledge that fracking is leading the way for America to be energy dependent ...

Yes it is! Or at least it is maintaining our dependence on "burning stuff" for our energy. Even if there were no risk in fracking itself simply using the resulting fuels creates risk which may result in disasters that prove this was not be worth the narrow short term economic benefits. Hopefully that won't be answered anytime soon.

 

[TobiasFunke]

mother jones as a source....seriously....

they don't even know how estimated taxes work....

frack them...

Source is questionable, but the article facts are not. Do you have something to suggest otherwise or just using a strawman argument?

Sure they are, or at least they are presented in a way to make the situation look worse than it is. You'll notice, for example, that the discussion centers around Oklahoma. Why? Oklahoma is not the only place that fracking takes place- it's not even the place that's seen the greatest uptick. Here's a map of domestic shale gas plays; if the tie between fracking and earthquakes is as significant as the article suggests (jumps from a handful to over 1,000), why hasn't it happened elsewhere? Oklahoma is barely a player relative to Pennsylvania, Texas, North Dakota and Wyoming.

The possible link between fracking and seismic activity should be taken seriously. But people shouldn't discount the many positives of fracking. People are always gonna want the lights to come on. Short of renewables, domestically produced natural gas as a fuel source is as good as it's gonna get for Americans. It burns cleaner than other fossil fuels and obviously if we produce it here it's good for the economy and for our international standing. It's a win across the board. The negatives have to be pretty significant to outweigh something like that. It's definitely fine to take a look at this, maybe to slow down production in Oklahoma, and any other places seeing problems, and frankly anywhere else the state's citizens decide they want to pump the brakes (New York, for example). But there's no reason for a knee-jerk suspension of the practice.

 

[worrierking]

It should also be noted that it isn't fracking that is causing the earthquakes, it is the injection of wastewater (usually from fracking, but not always) that is the culprit. There is some evidence that fracking itself causes minor seismic activity, but it is well injection that people need to be concerned about. The water injected acts as a lubricant to the faults underground, allowing more movement of plates.

Frackers can recycle their wastewater or bring it to a treatment facility rather than simply put it away underground. It is more expensive but it may be necessary in locations that are at risk for seismic events.

The solution isn't to ban fracking.

 

[Sarnoff]

Global warming causes earthquakes. There were never earthquakes in OK until climate change happened. The science is settled.

 

[dparker713]

If we did everything the environmentalists wanted, pretty soon the earth would have the same number of inhabitants as it did in Neolithic times, and we'd be hunter gatherers again.

Exaggerate much?

How is that an exaggeration? Sounds spot on to me.

Yes. Every environmentalist wants us to live in the Stone Age you are absolutely correct.

Was it really that hard to grasp? Glad you're able to come around on the issue.

I just don't understand who's on the other side of environmentalists. Cause it can't be pro-free market people. Allowing companies to cause damage without fully paying for it allows them to bring a product to market at a rate subsidized by the landowners, state, and population at large. Its one gigantic subsidy that makes other products appear to be more expensive.

 

[bagger]

the best part about living in az is the ground is too hard to make sense to frack.

i find it insane that they are fracking inside los angeles in that 100 acre oil field that is smack dab in the middle of the city.

gg l.a.

to the people who think fracking won't cause earthquakes, the earthquake they had in ok was definitely tied to fracking given how much is going on out there.

we certainly need to move forward with alternative energy sources, and natural gas may be the way to go, but fracking it i think is a terrible idea. has to be another alternative to extract and/or the regulations on it need to be WAY tougher, as do the fines.

 

[worrierking]

Here is an excellent article from an NPR group in Texas explaining the link between earthquakes and disposal wells.

https://stateimpact.npr.org/texas/tag/earthquake/

 

[jonessed]

the best part about living in az is the ground is too hard to make sense to frack.

i find it insane that they are fracking inside los angeles in that 100 acre oil field that is smack dab in the middle of the city.

gg l.a.

to the people who think fracking won't cause earthquakes, the earthquake they had in ok was definitely tied to fracking given how much is going on out there.

we certainly need to move forward with alternative energy sources, and natural gas may be the way to go, but fracking it i think is a terrible idea. has to be another alternative to extract and/or the regulations on it need to be WAY tougher, as do the fines.

Fracking is pretty much it. The technology will continue to evolve, but there is no other way to get at those deposits.

If you don't like fracking, there is always coal or nuclear. They all carry risks.

 

[DrJ]

How can this even be a question? Of course it is dangerous and poses various serious threats to our environment. Saying otherwise is just dishonest and/or stupid.

The question is whether or not the risk can be satisfactorily mitigated such that the benefits are worth that risk. This where reasonable people can have differing opinions. And I have no real clue as the debate has me constantly flip flopping so I have to default to no. (You would likely default to the side of those turning a profit.)

In the absence of a compelling argument either way, I'm definitely on the other side. I default to freedom rather than unnecessary control.

 

[TobiasFunke]

It should also be noted that it isn't fracking that is causing the earthquakes, it is the injection of wastewater (usually from fracking, but not always) that is the culprit. There is some evidence that fracking itself causes minor seismic activity, but it is well injection that people need to be concerned about. The water injected acts as a lubricant to the faults underground, allowing more movement of plates.

Frackers can recycle their wastewater or bring it to a treatment facility rather than simply put it away underground. It is more expensive but it may be necessary in locations that are at risk for seismic events.

The solution isn't to ban fracking.

 

[Bottomfeeder Sports]

How can this even be a question? Of course it is dangerous and poses various serious threats to our environment. Saying otherwise is just dishonest and/or stupid.

The question is whether or not the risk can be satisfactorily mitigated such that the benefits are worth that risk. This where reasonable people can have differing opinions. And I have no real clue as the debate has me constantly flip flopping so I have to default to no. (You would likely default to the side of those turning a profit.)

In the absence of a compelling argument either way, I'm definitely on the other side. I default to freedom rather than unnecessary control.

Laughable!

 

[GregR]

Randy Keller is the chair of the University of Oklahoma's ConocoPhillips School of Geology and Geophysics.

He once gave me a mild scolding because I stood and watched rather than intervening to stop two coeds who were in the midst of a clothes-tearing, breast-baring cat fight.

 

[jonessed]

Randy Keller is the chair of the University of Oklahoma's ConocoPhillips School of Geology and Geophysics.

He once gave me a mild scolding because I stood and watched rather than intervening to stop two coeds who were in the midst of a clothes-tearing, breast-baring cat fight.

The responsible thing to do would have been to take a more hands-on approach and get between them.

 

[The General]

Randy Keller is the chair of the University of Oklahoma's ConocoPhillips School of Geology and Geophysics.

He once gave me a mild scolding because I stood and watched rather than intervening to stop two coeds who were in the midst of a clothes-tearing, breast-baring cat fight.

Judgement like that makes this professor's opinion highly suspect IMO.

 

[beer 302]

Is anybody here in the drilling/fracking industry?

Not directly but my company supports the fracking industries with rental equipment. It's a pretty fascinating industry, more money flying around than most people will see in a lifetime. The difference these days is there is a lot more foreign investment than there has been in the past. We have about 10 dedicated Oil & Gas locations that specialize in renting to the industry, I purchase a good chunk of their equipment. One of the things we are getting into is natural gas fueled generators. Rather than using traditional diesel units the industry is quickly switching over to natural gas as they simply flair it off anyhow. One of the things I discovered while researching the topic was this info. They flair off so much gas in Wiliston, ND that they show up from space now. Just thought it was neat.I don't doubt the earthquake claims, our facilities in OH & PA are always feeling tremors in areas where there have never been earthquakes in the past. Whether it's a direct relation to fracking or not I'll let you good people decide but on the surface, I don't see how you can't make that leap of faith. The only thing new introduced to the environment has been fracking & earthquakes start where they never have before

 

[msommer]

The real question is if it's safer than coal or nuclear, since those are the only other viable options for the bulk of our energy needs (at least for the next few decades).

Extraction of coal is not something you would want in your backyard either. Particularly strip mining...

 

[wazoo11]

 

[Rohn Jambo]

The Yellowstone super volcano can blow any time and California can fall into the Pacific after the next big quake. I have warned the frackers a long time ago but monkey no see and monkey no hear.

Don't blame the messenger... http://www.cbsnews.com/news/earthquake-rattles-yellowstone-national-park/

http://www.cnn.com/2014/03/29/us/california-earthquake/

 

[MaxThreshold]

The Yellowstone super volcano can blow any time and California can fall into the Pacific after the next big quake. I have warned the frackers a long time ago but monkey no see and monkey no hear.

Don't blame the messenger... http://www.cbsnews.com/news/earthquake-rattles-yellowstone-national-park/

http://www.cnn.com/2014/03/29/us/california-earthquake/

Is there fracking going on in LA?

 

[Rohn Jambo]

The Yellowstone super volcano can blow any time and California can fall into the Pacific after the next big quake. I have warned the frackers a long time ago but monkey no see and monkey no hear.

Don't blame the messenger... http://www.cbsnews.com/news/earthquake-rattles-yellowstone-national-park/

http://www.cnn.com/2014/03/29/us/california-earthquake/

Is there fracking going on in LA?

Fracking galore.http://www.nbclosangeles.com/news/local/Is-Fracking-to-Blame-for-Quake-That-Struck-LA-250916251.html

Another 5.0 quake in NZ today. And you already know, fracking here, fracking there, everywhere frack frack.

http://www.pce.parliament.nz/publications/all-publications/evaluating-the-environmental-impacts-of-fracking-in-new-zealand-an-interim-report

 

[Brady Marino]

One of the things I discovered while researching the topic was this info. They flair off so much gas in Wiliston, ND that they show up from space now. Just thought it was neat.

The infrastructure to trap natural gas in North Dakota is moving at a snails pace. It's moving, but about 30% of natural gas is flared away because of a lack of a way to trap it.

As for fracking, our water system is fine here, thanks in part to a recently upgraded city water system. That said, a well near the confluence of the Missouri and Yellowstone rivers got flooded due to ice jams and some oil leaked out. It was contained, but it's one of many spills that need cleaning up around here and makes you wonder just how safe the water is here. The story is always the same: oil leaks, some gets off site, miraculously doesn't affect water systems every single time.

 

[joffer]

http://www.scientificamerican.com/article/big-leaks-found-in-pennsylvania-fracking-wells/?WT.mc_id=SA_Facebook