Is Larry Fitzgerald the Next (Not Moss), Rice? (1 Viewer)

[Buttmonkey]

Most receptions first two seasons over anyone - how good is he and can he be the one to truly challenge the legend that is Jerry Rice?

 

[Assani Fisher]

yes.

 

[This_Is_Not_VRR]

He's the next Cris "All I Do Is Catch Touchdowns" Carter. Get it right.

 

[David Yudkin]

Most receptions first two seasons over anyone - how good is he and can he be the one to truly challenge the legend that is Jerry Rice?

He may not even be the best WR on his own team.If you leave out Boldin's 2nd season when he was slowed by injury:

Fitz: 161-2189-18 (32 GP)

Boldin: 203-2779-15 (30 GP)

 

[jerseyh8r]

Just curious...with Boldin consistently targeted more than Fitz when healthy and producing more (as mentioned above), do people value Fitz more simply b/c he is historically more healthy, or is there something else? I know he has seen more targets in the RZ, but I don't understand the reasoning behind liking Fitz more than Boldin, who I consider to be a better value and likely higher FF producer.

 

[Sabertooth]

Most receptions first two seasons over anyone - how good is he and can he be the one to truly challenge the legend that is Jerry Rice?

He may not even be the best WR on his own team.If you leave out Boldin's 2nd season when he was slowed by injury:

Fitz: 161-2189-18 (32 GP)

Boldin: 203-2779-15 (30 GP)

But then again, that's the rub with Boldin, he hasn't been able to stay healthy. Both are very very good receivers right now.

 

[stbugs]

Most receptions first two seasons over anyone - how good is he and can he be the one to truly challenge the legend that is Jerry Rice?

He may not even be the best WR on his own team.If you leave out Boldin's 2nd season when he was slowed by injury:

Fitz: 161-2189-18 (32 GP)

Boldin: 203-2779-15 (30 GP)

I don't like removing the 2nd year for Bolding because Boldin is 3, yes 3, years older than Fitz. You could say that Boldin's first year was much better than Fitz's because of the maturity and experience level. Kind of like comparing LeBron to MJ in their rookie seasons.Anway, I didn't realize how young Fitz is, but he has got the chance to put up some lofty totals with his start and his age if he can play a long career like Rice.

 

[Patoons]

You could say that Boldin's first year was much better than Fitz's because of the maturity and experience level. Kind of like comparing LeBron to MJ in their rookie seasons.

Anway, I didn't realize how young Fitz is, but he has got the chance to put up some lofty totals with his start and his age if he can play a long career like Rice.

Their rookie seasons were also under two different scenarios. Boldin was essentially the only offensive weapon on the team. He saw 165 targets his rookie season compared to Fitz' 105. Fitz had to share part of the season with Boldin.We project Fitz' rookie season out using his rookie YPR... we have Fitz' rookie year at 92/1238 - Pretty damn close to Boldin's rookie year. Fitz I believe is higher for FF purposes becuase he's the huge red zone threat and doesn't carry the injury risk.

Fitz is still only 22... he could still get a bit better... scary.

These two guys are fabulous WR's (NFL and FF)... like Moss/Carter. Looks like Denny is going for that same model after adding Edge.

R.Smith, Moss, Carter #2

 

[Tau837]

Just curious...with Boldin consistently targeted more than Fitz when healthy and producing more (as mentioned above), do people value Fitz more simply b/c he is historically more healthy, or is there something else? I know he has seen more targets in the RZ, but I don't understand the reasoning behind liking Fitz more than Boldin, who I consider to be a better value and likely higher FF producer.

Posted my opinion on why Fitz is a better fantasy WR a couple months ago:

While I like Boldin a lot, I think 4 things make Fitz a higher ranked fantasy WR:

1. Injury history.

This has already been covered. Boldin has a history that includes serious injuries, Fitz doesn't.

2. Age.

Fitz is 22, Boldin is 25. For dynasty, it is obvious that the player 3 years younger is preferable. But I would argue that it is also important in redraft, at least in this case. Fitz is so young that he is still maturing, both physically and in his understanding of the game. Boldin is already on the front edge of his prime.

3. Yardage.

Everyone raves about Boldin's YAC. But I think some fail to realize Fitz has averaged more yards per catch (Fitz 13.6 career, Boldin 13.1). So, yes, Boldin's YAC is great, but it doesn't lead to an edge in yardage or an edge in scoring (see point #4).

4. Scoring.

Boldin has 16 TDs on 259 receptions in 40 games. 1 TD every 16.2 receptions and 1 TD every 2.5 games.

Fitz has 18 TDs on 161 receptions in 32 games. 1 TD every 8.9 receptions and 1 TD every 1.8 games.

TDs are definitely volatile, but it is hard not to conclude that Fitz is more likely to score, whether due to better ability in the red zone, due to Warner's tendency to prefer him in the red zone, whatever.

I don't feel confident in predicting much of a gap between them in receptions or receiving yards. It is just too hard (for me) to figure out which one of them will have more of either, and by how much. This means I have to believe Fitz will score more fantasy points.

So I think Fitz should be taken ahead of Boldin. To answer the poll question then requires answering these two questions:

1. How much better will Fitz be?

2. How much later than Fitz will Boldin be drafted?

For example, if the two of them are drafted within two or three picks of one another, then Fitz will be the better value. So it isn't correct to blindly say that the one drafted later is the better value. You need to know how much later.

As with all such discussions, it depends on how it shapes the rest of your draft. If you can take Boldin at least a round later, then the question is whether the combination of (player instead of Fitz) + Boldin is better than Fitz + (player instead of Boldin). We can't really answer unless we know who the other players are.

In general, if Boldin is taken a round later than Fitz, I would assume he will be the better value. But I would be surprised if that happens often. If the gap is less than one round, I think it becomes a toss up, and probably favors Fitz.

 

[MLBrandow]

4. Scoring.

Boldin has 16 TDs on 259 receptions in 40 games. 1 TD every 16.2 receptions and 1 TD every 2.5 games.

Fitz has 18 TDs on 161 receptions in 32 games. 1 TD every 8.9 receptions and 1 TD every 1.8 games.

TDs are definitely volatile, but it is hard not to conclude that Fitz is more likely to score, whether due to better ability in the red zone, due to Warner's tendency to prefer him in the red zone, whatever.

That is an incorrect statement, as you are attributing TDs from Jeff Blake/Shaun King/Josh McCown/etc to Warner, as well as forgetting that Fitz played a solid amount without Boldin.I just went over his stats this morning, and what I found leads me to the opposite conclusion: Boldin is clearly Warner's preferred target.

The TD split is about even (slight edge to Boldin), but that is just to be attributed t Warner's overall ineptness at throwing TDs.

 

[Loan Sharks]

yes

 

[beto]

There was an interesting blurb about Fitz in an interview I saw with Boldin. The basic question was "Who is your laziest teammate?" Boldin answered that it was Fitz. It's hard to say what context the question was being answered in, but it scared me a bit on Fitz.

 

[King of the Jungle]

There was an interesting blurb about Fitz in an interview I saw with Boldin. The basic question was "Who is your laziest teammate?" Boldin answered that it was Fitz. It's hard to say what context the question was being answered in, but it scared me a bit on Fitz.

From what I have read/heard, I hardly think there is an ounce of truth to that. If Boldin did say that, he was probably joking.

 

[LawFitz]

There was an interesting blurb about Fitz in an interview I saw with Boldin. The basic question was "Who is your laziest teammate?" Boldin answered that it was Fitz. It's hard to say what context the question was being answered in, but it scared me a bit on Fitz.

From what I have read/heard, I hardly think there is an ounce of truth to that. If Boldin did say that, he was probably joking.

Yeah, everything I've ever read about Fitz makes him out to be a workout warrior with a tremendous drive to be the best. I would think that Boldin was being completely sarcastic by pointing out the hardest worker on the team.

 

[J-Rock]

I'm a little bias but I don't think Fitz, Bolden or any one else has a chance of breaking any of Rice's significant records.

What Jerry Rice accomplished was amazing and will be extremely difficult to duplicate.

Consider the numbers.

Career Receptions - 1549. That is an average of more than 80/ season for 19 seasons. 448 more than Carter. Fitz would have to play 17 more years at his current pace to match this.

Receiving Yards - 22,895. That's over 1200/ season for 19 seasons. 7961 more than Tim Brown.

Receiving TD's - 197. more than 10/yr for 19 seasons. That is 67 more than "Chris all I do is catch TD Carter" who averaged 8/ season over 15 seasons. Carter would have had to play another 8 years averaging more than 8/yr to catch him.

There have been some great receivers in NFL history but no one has even come close to achieving what Jerry did.

I remember a few years ago people were comparing Moss to Rice and arguing that he could challenge his records. No one is making that argument now. The key to Rice's achievements was consistent production over a very long career. I find it very hard to believe that anyone will ever challenge these records.

Perhaps his greatest record is that he is the all-time leader in Yards from Scrimmage. Not Emmitt, not Walter, WR Jerry Rice. Pretty amazing when you consider that only 1 receiver cracked the top 5 in yfs this year.

 

[beto]

There was an interesting blurb about Fitz in an interview I saw with Boldin. The basic question was "Who is your laziest teammate?" Boldin answered that it was Fitz. It's hard to say what context the question was being answered in, but it scared me a bit on Fitz.

From what I have read/heard, I hardly think there is an ounce of truth to that. If Boldin did say that, he was probably joking.

Yeah, everything I've ever read about Fitz makes him out to be a workout warrior with a tremendous drive to be the best. I would think that Boldin was being completely sarcastic by pointing out the hardest worker on the team.

Thanks guys. I wasn't sure how to take that blurb, but I think you are right and Boldin was joking.

 

[Sigfawn]

4. Scoring.

Boldin has 16 TDs on 259 receptions in 40 games. 1 TD every 16.2 receptions and 1 TD every 2.5 games.

Fitz has 18 TDs on 161 receptions in 32 games. 1 TD every 8.9 receptions and 1 TD every 1.8 games.

TDs are definitely volatile, but it is hard not to conclude that Fitz is more likely to score, whether due to better ability in the red zone, due to Warner's tendency to prefer him in the red zone, whatever.

That is an incorrect statement, as you are attributing TDs from Jeff Blake/Shaun King/Josh McCown/etc to Warner, as well as forgetting that Fitz played a solid amount without Boldin.I just went over his stats this morning, and what I found leads me to the opposite conclusion: Boldin is clearly Warner's preferred target.

The TD split is about even (slight edge to Boldin), but that is just to be attributed t Warner's overall ineptness at throwing TDs.

It's not inncorrect. It has nothing to do with QBs.

Fitz is Denny's BOY. He gets FAR more RZ looks then Boldin. To the point its painfully obvious he favors Fitz by a good margin in the RZ. Which is why Fitz has much better TD totals.

But you're right about Boldin. He gets more targets. Warner likes him. He's probably the better WR. None of that matters to Green. In the RZ, Fitz gets the call.

 

[Wilbur Wood]

There was an interesting blurb about Fitz in an interview I saw with Boldin. The basic question was "Who is your laziest teammate?" Boldin answered that it was Fitz. It's hard to say what context the question was being answered in, but it scared me a bit on Fitz.

I read this quote in this week's TSN as well. Made reference to Fitz bringing a golf cart to training camp last year so that he wouldn't have to walk so much.Have not heard anything that says that Fitz "works harder" than everyone else the way that Rice did. Time will tell.

 

[Sabertooth]

4. Scoring.

Boldin has 16 TDs on 259 receptions in 40 games. 1 TD every 16.2 receptions and 1 TD every 2.5 games.

Fitz has 18 TDs on 161 receptions in 32 games. 1 TD every 8.9 receptions and 1 TD every 1.8 games.

TDs are definitely volatile, but it is hard not to conclude that Fitz is more likely to score, whether due to better ability in the red zone, due to Warner's tendency to prefer him in the red zone, whatever.

That is an incorrect statement, as you are attributing TDs from Jeff Blake/Shaun King/Josh McCown/etc to Warner, as well as forgetting that Fitz played a solid amount without Boldin.I just went over his stats this morning, and what I found leads me to the opposite conclusion: Boldin is clearly Warner's preferred target.

The TD split is about even (slight edge to Boldin), but that is just to be attributed t Warner's overall ineptness at throwing TDs.

You do realize that Warner has the third highest single season TD total in league history right? Just asking.

 

[Sabertooth]

I'm a little bias but I don't think Fitz, Bolden or any one else has a chance of breaking any of Rice's significant records.

What Jerry Rice accomplished was amazing and will be extremely difficult to duplicate.

Consider the numbers.

Career Receptions - 1549. That is an average of more than 80/ season for 19 seasons. 448 more than Carter. Fitz would have to play 17 more years at his current pace to match this.

Receiving Yards - 22,895. That's over 1200/ season for 19 seasons. 7961 more than Tim Brown.

Receiving TD's - 197. more than 10/yr for 19 seasons. That is 67 more than "Chris all I do is catch TD Carter" who averaged 8/ season over 15 seasons. Carter would have had to play another 8 years averaging more than 8/yr to catch him.

There have been some great receivers in NFL history but no one has even come close to achieving what Jerry did.

I remember a few years ago people were comparing Moss to Rice and arguing that he could challenge his records. No one is making that argument now. The key to Rice's achievements was consistent production over a very long career. I find it very hard to believe that anyone will ever challenge these records.

Perhaps his greatest record is that he is the all-time leader in Yards from Scrimmage. Not Emmitt, not Walter, WR Jerry Rice. Pretty amazing when you consider that only 1 receiver cracked the top 5 in yfs this year.

Thanks for sharing. Jerry was pretty sad his last few years as well because he was playing to extend his records.

 

[Tau837]

4. Scoring.

Boldin has 16 TDs on 259 receptions in 40 games. 1 TD every 16.2 receptions and 1 TD every 2.5 games.

Fitz has 18 TDs on 161 receptions in 32 games. 1 TD every 8.9 receptions and 1 TD every 1.8 games.

TDs are definitely volatile, but it is hard not to conclude that Fitz is more likely to score, whether due to better ability in the red zone, due to Warner's tendency to prefer him in the red zone, whatever.

That is an incorrect statement, as you are attributing TDs from Jeff Blake/Shaun King/Josh McCown/etc to Warner, as well as forgetting that Fitz played a solid amount without Boldin.I just went over his stats this morning, and what I found leads me to the opposite conclusion: Boldin is clearly Warner's preferred target.

The TD split is about even (slight edge to Boldin), but that is just to be attributed t Warner's overall ineptness at throwing TDs.

In games without Boldin, Fitzgerald has only scored 3 of his 18 career TDs. So you are wrong if you're saying that is the reason he has scored so many more than Boldin. In the games in which they both played, Fitz has outscored Boldin 15-8 in TDs.Boldin and Fitzgerald have played 24 games together. In those games:

Boldin: 273 targets, 158/2025/8 receiving, 250.5 fantasy points

Fitzgerald: 201 targets, 118/1575/15 receiving, 247.5 fantasy points

Using last year's 14 games they played together is probably even more accurate in terms of predicting for this year and beyond:

Boldin: 171 targets, 102/1402/7, 187 fantasy points

Fitzgerald: 137 targets, 86/1166/9, 189.8 fantasy points

As I indicated in my earlier post, they are very close. So other factors, like age and durability, are important here.

 

[Buttmonkey]

Good replies. Yes, Rice's records are way out there. And if Fritz doesn't have the work ethic to drive himself to be the best, then no way does he come remotely close. My point was (and it wasn't if he was the best in the game today), but at age 22, if he works hard, gets lucky and stays healthy, he can challenge Rice's career totals.

I like Boldin a lot, but realize this, after watching a couple Cardinal games last season, the reason he (Boldin) got a lot of receptions was the (and forgive me because I don't know what they call it), where the QB takes a quick 3-step drop and passes it immediately to the WR (because the corner is laying off). They did this about 4 times one game and I realized it because Zona did not have an effective run game. With Edge, that may change and Boldin's numbers may dip slightly.

 

[Buttmonkey]

Rice’s first two seasons: 135 receptions; 2497 yards; 18 TDs

Fitzgerald’s first two seasons: 161 receptions; 2189 yards; 18 TDs

Rice's next season was sick - 22 TDs! Larry has advantage in receptions, Rice in TDs/Yards.

Hmmm, closer than probably most people think.

 

[DrJ]

I would say yes - Fitz has some similarities to Rice IMO. Neither of these guys had blazing speed, or is the greatest athlete, but they make/made up for it by being some of the most tireless workers the game has seen.

Larry Fitzgerald is driven. Everything I have read on him indicates that since his Mom died, he has been a machine. He eats, breathes, and yes sleeps football (as indicated by the stories of him sitting in bed playing catch with himself in the dark).

He isn't done getting better....he won't allow it.

 

[Buttmonkey]

I'm a little bias but I don't think Fitz, Bolden or any one else has a chance of breaking any of Rice's significant records.

I remember a few years ago people were comparing Moss to Rice and arguing that he could challenge his records. No one is making that argument now. The key to Rice's achievements was consistent production over a very long career. I find it very hard to believe that anyone will ever challenge these records.

Moss "could" challenge if he stays healthy and stays in the game that long. I know it's a big "could", but still.Rice's first 8 seasons: 610 receptions/10,273 yards/103 TDs

Moss's first 8 seasons: 634 receptions/10,147 yards/98 TDs

Also, Rice missed 1997 season, which if Moss stays healthy, can gain/overtake Jerry. Hmmm, maybe not so far-fetched afterall.

But back to Fitzgerald

 

[David Yudkin]

Rice’s first two seasons:          135 receptions; 2497 yards; 18 TDs

Fitzgerald’s first two seasons:  161 receptions; 2189 yards; 18 TDs

Rice's next season was sick - 22 TDs!  Larry has advantage in receptions, Rice in TDs/Yards.

Hmmm, closer than probably most people think.

22 TD in 12 games played.As for the Fitz/Rice comparisons,

WR WITH 130 RECEPTIONS IN FIRST TWO SEASONS:

Larry Fitzgerald 161

Anquan Boldin 157

Wayne Chrebet 150

Randy Moss 149

Gary Clark 146

Andre Johnson 145

Sterling Sharpe 145

Isaac Bruce 140

Marvin Harrison 137

Jerry Rice 135

Torry Holt 134

Andre Rison 134

Keyshawn Johnson 133

Al Toon 131

WR WITH 2000 RECEIVING YARDS IN FIRST TWO SEASONS:

Randy Moss 2726

Bill Groman 2648

Jerry Rice 2497

Charlie Hennigan 2468

Torry Holt 2423

Bob Hayes 2235

Sterling Sharpe 2214

Gary Clark 2191

Larry Fitzgerald 2189

Andre Johnson 2118

John Jefferson 2091

Isaac Bruce 2053

Andre Rison 2028

Joey Galloway 2026

Anquan Boldin 2000

WR WITH 15 RECEIVING TD IN FIRST TWO SEASONS:

Bill Groman 29

Randy Moss 28

Bob Hayes 25

John Jefferson 23

Daryl Turner 23

Louis Lipps 21

Mark Clayton 19

Isaac Curtis 19

Sammy White 19

Jim Colclough 18

Larry Fitzgerald 18

Charlie Hennigan 18

Jerry Rice 18

Charlie Brown 16

Isaac Bruce 16

Lee Evans 160

Roy Williams 16

Anthony Carter 15

Gary Collins 15

Bobby Johnson 15

Sonny Randle 15

Gene Washington 15

Fitz is off to a nice start, but IMO, any WR is playing for second place in the record books in any category Rice is #1 in.

 

[DrJ]

Fitzgerald's Cardinal rule: Work harder

"I'm definitely feeling like I'm still up-and-coming and not there yet," Fitzgerald said after a recent offseason workout. "I've got a lot of work to do. I'm not satisfied."

Cardinals receivers coach Mike Wilson loves hearing this type of grounded talk from his pupil, who was the NFL's youngest starter as a rookie after leaving Pitt following his sophomore season. Wilson played receiver with the San Francisco 49ers and has hardly forgotten the man Fitzgerald is always asking him about: Jerry Rice.

Wilson can't help but make comparisons.

"You never stop learning," he says. "You can never think that you know it all. Larry understands. Now that he has gotten to the Pro Bowl, he wants to improve. That attitude is very important. Jerry was the same way."

http://www.usatoday.com/sports/football/nf...wr_x.htm?csp=34

He even took a question about his habit of going to bed each night with two footballs.

"That's something I've been doing for a long time. One is a ball I've had since high school. The other is an NFL football that a close family friend gave me as a gift. That one keeps me motivated."

http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/03309/236816.stmCan't find any of the links from the 04 draft where they were talking about how his mother's death impacted him and really turned him into the machine he is today. Something about him refusing to talk to her because he was angry, she passed away, and he felt terrible about it. He basically said that it drives him today, and he went from being in trouble and sent to that prep school to being the stud that he is now....

And, he's still not satisfied...