Is Michael Vick a legitimate MVP candidate? (1 Viewer)

[gianmarco]

I know he hasn't played every game. That's the ONLY argument against him right now.

--If he plays the rest of the games this season, he will have played 12 games this year.

--He hasn't thrown an INT all year

--He's thrown 11 TDs

--115.1 QB rating

--341 yds rushing already and 4 rushing TDs

--The team has won every game he's started except for the game he was injured in the very beginning

 

[TheDirtyWord]

Is he not the favorite?

 

[Ghost Rider]

Right now, no. He has yet to play three full games in a row this year, and the drop-off from him to Kolb isn't nearly as severe as Rivers, Brady or Peyton to all of their backups is. In other words, those three QBs are all much more valuable to their teams than Vick is to his, so therefore, no.

But I suspect some will overreact to a single game and talk like he is the frontrunner right now.

 

[gianmarco]

Right now, no. He has yet to play three full games in a row this year, and the drop-off from him to Kolb isn't nearly as severe as Rivers, Brady or Peyton to all of their backups is. In other words, those three QBs are all much more valuable to their teams than Vick is to his, so therefore, no.But I suspect some will overreact to a single game and talk like he is the frontrunner right now.

Single game? You're gonna have to unwrap that for me.

 

[slckrsmitty]

Right now, no. He has yet to play three full games in a row this year, and the drop-off from him to Kolb isn't nearly as severe as Rivers, Brady or Peyton to all of their backups is. In other words, those three QBs are all much more valuable to their teams than Vick is to his, so therefore, no.But I suspect some will overreact to a single game and talk like he is the frontrunner right now.

the next time a players backup is used to determine a MVP award will be the first time it's used.

 

[todisco1]

Right now, no. He has yet to play three full games in a row this year, and the drop-off from him to Kolb isn't nearly as severe as Rivers, Brady or Peyton to all of their backups is. In other words, those three QBs are all much more valuable to their teams than Vick is to his, so therefore, no.But I suspect some will overreact to a single game and talk like he is the frontrunner right now.

You're suggesting he's only had one good game?

 

[Ghost Rider]

Single game? You're gonna have to unwrap that for me.

A single game meaning people are going ballistic over Vick's performance last night (and rightfully so, as he played lights out). In other words, you ask this question the day after he had by far the best game he has ever had and many are naturally gonna say yes to a question like this. That is all I am saying. But are we really gonna give serious MVP consideration to a guy who has played four full games so far? Really?

 

[Ghost Rider]

Right now, no. He has yet to play three full games in a row this year, and the drop-off from him to Kolb isn't nearly as severe as Rivers, Brady or Peyton to all of their backups is. In other words, those three QBs are all much more valuable to their teams than Vick is to his, so therefore, no.But I suspect some will overreact to a single game and talk like he is the frontrunner right now.

You're suggesting he's only had one good game?

I never said that. Read the post right above this one.

 

[mr roboto]

Right now, no. He has yet to play three full games in a row this year, and the drop-off from him to Kolb isn't nearly as severe as Rivers, Brady or Peyton to all of their backups is. Therefore, no.But I suspect some will overreact to a single game and talk like he is the frontrunner right now.

Not even a candidate? Come on. Vick is playing better than he ever has and there is a good case to be made that he is playing the best in the league (Rivers and maybe Brady).He is better than Kolb. He gives his team a better chance to win. IIRC he has yet to throw an INT. And if you have watched him play, he is in complete control of that offense. His decision making and accuracy (both his major weaknesses in Atl) are phenomenal. It's not an overreaction. He's really, really good. Maybe the best QB in the league right now. Emphasis - RIGHT NOW. MVP is not based on reputation or lifetime achievement like in MLB or NBA.

 

[gasFace]

Hes clearly a favorite. (And I've never been a fan)

Ghost Rider is kind of out of his mind.

 

[Mello]

He a candidate. There's no way he wins unless last night's performance becomes common. Too much bias out there against him.

 

[silentmark]

he's a dog killer , end of story.

I am sure I'll hear, "He did his time ....," blah, blah, blah, don't care, he's a POS and should be blacklisted ...

 

[Kuz]

Hes clearly the favorite. (And I've never been a fan)Ghost Rider is kind of out of his mind.

I would think he's the front runner for sure. I understand Ghost Rider's point a bit since yesterday's game was so unreal but he's been great in every game thus far this year he's played. He would definitely get my vote.

 

[todisco1]

Right now, no. He has yet to play three full games in a row this year, and the drop-off from him to Kolb isn't nearly as severe as Rivers, Brady or Peyton to all of their backups is. In other words, those three QBs are all much more valuable to their teams than Vick is to his, so therefore, no.But I suspect some will overreact to a single game and talk like he is the frontrunner right now.

You're suggesting he's only had one good game?

I never said that. Read the post right above this one.

I think you're dead wrong. He's for sure a candidate. Doesn't mean he's the frontrunner, but how could you say he's not even in the running? He has been lights out every game.

 

[Bruce Leroy]

He's a candidate, but he won't win it

 

[chidoy]

Ne1 that says he isn't and MVP candidate obviously hasn't seen him play this year .... he's on a whole 'nother level right now.

 

[Ghost Rider]

I will say it again: he has played only four full games this season. If he plays the rest of the season, then it is a different story, as he will then have played 11 games out of 16, but right now, which I believe is the criteria, he has played four full games out of nine. And I am sorry, but I just don't think the league MVP is someone who has played less than half of the season, especially when his team went 2-1 in the full games played by the other QB, including an impressive win over a 7-2 team. Vick has played great, yes, but just not enough.

 

[TheDirtyWord]

So Vick has essentially played in 4.75 games. He played a half against GB in the first game of the year and a quarter against WAS.

Just simply doing a projected performance over a 16 game schedule, here is what he would produce...

323 Completions

515 Attempts

4547 Passing Yards

37 TD's

0 INT's

148 rushes

1149 Rushing Yards

13 TD's

 

[Da Guru]

If Vick continues to play at near the level he is playing at right now the MVP will be his.

 

[chidoy]

he's a dog killer , end of story. I am sure I'll hear, "He did his time ....," blah, blah, blah, don't care, he's a POS and should be blacklisted ...

Sounds like someone who's fantasy team was up by 45pts and going against Vick last night......

 

[Follows Closely]

If Vick continues to play at near the level he is playing at right now the MVP will be his.

Unfortunately for him, he has to some better defenses coming his way. Especially during fantasy playoffs.

 

[Jason Wood]

With the big caveat that he needs to stay on the field the rest of the way, clearly he's among the top MVP candidates right now.

First place team

2nd highest scoring NFL offense

3rd most offensive yard among NFL teams

11 TDs/0 Ints (team is +12 in turnover differential...Vick is the majority of that)

On pace for the best single season AY/A in league history

Leading league in passer rating (not to mention 341 yards and 4 TDs on the ground)

 

[Masked Vigilante]

Right now, no. He has yet to play three full games in a row this year, and the drop-off from him to Kolb isn't nearly as severe as Rivers, Brady or Peyton to all of their backups is. In other words, those three QBs are all much more valuable to their teams than Vick is to his, so therefore, no.

But I suspect some will overreact to a single game and talk like he is the frontrunner right now.

This is completely asinine.

 

[CentralPA]

If Vick continues to play at near the level he is playing at right now the MVP will be his.

Unfortunately for him, he has to some better defenses coming his way. Especially during fantasy playoffs.

Unfortunately for those defenses they have to try and stop Michael Vick.

 

[Ghost Rider]

Right now, no. He has yet to play three full games in a row this year, and the drop-off from him to Kolb isn't nearly as severe as Rivers, Brady or Peyton to all of their backups is. In other words, those three QBs are all much more valuable to their teams than Vick is to his, so therefore, no.

But I suspect some will overreact to a single game and talk like he is the frontrunner right now.

This is completely asinine.

Kevin Kolb started for the Eagles in their 14-point win over the 7-2 Falcons. Do you think the Patriots could lose Brady and still beat a 7-2 team by double digits? Or Manning and the Colts? Or Rivers and the Chargers? I'll hang up and listen.

 

[mr roboto]

he's a dog killer , end of story. I am sure I'll hear, "He did his time ....," blah, blah, blah, don't care, he's a POS and should be blacklisted ...

I'm sure you've done nothing for which you would be ashamed and because of which people may discount you for the rest of your life.Redemption and changing one's life is a positive thing. And it is possible. And you take the easy road and judge regardless of how the person has paid for his mistakes and how much he regrets them.

 

[Masked Vigilante]

Right now, no. He has yet to play three full games in a row this year, and the drop-off from him to Kolb isn't nearly as severe as Rivers, Brady or Peyton to all of their backups is. In other words, those three QBs are all much more valuable to their teams than Vick is to his, so therefore, no.

But I suspect some will overreact to a single game and talk like he is the frontrunner right now.

This is completely asinine.

Kevin Kolb started for the Eagles in their 14-point win over the 7-2 Falcons. Do you think the Patriots could lose Brady and still beat a 7-2 team by double digits? Or Manning and the Colts? Or Rivers and the Chargers? I'll hang up and listen.

So Vick should be punished because the Colts never bother to roster a decent backup QB?

 

[footballnerd]

I will say it again: he has played only four full games this season. If he plays the rest of the season, then it is a different story, as he will then have played 11 games out of 16, but right now, which I believe is the criteria, he has played four full games out of nine. And I am sorry, but I just don't think the league MVP is someone who has played less than half of the season, especially when his team went 2-1 in the full games played by the other QB, including an impressive win over a 7-2 team. Vick has played great, yes, but just not enough.

ya this has been covered by the OPhe's a candidate but not a favorite....yet

 

[mr roboto]

Right now, no. He has yet to play three full games in a row this year, and the drop-off from him to Kolb isn't nearly as severe as Rivers, Brady or Peyton to all of their backups is. In other words, those three QBs are all much more valuable to their teams than Vick is to his, so therefore, no.

But I suspect some will overreact to a single game and talk like he is the frontrunner right now.

This is completely asinine.

Kevin Kolb started for the Eagles in their 14-point win over the 7-2 Falcons. Do you think the Patriots could lose Brady and still beat a 7-2 team by double digits? Or Manning and the Colts? Or Rivers and the Chargers? I'll hang up and listen.

Congrats on the completely obvious point you've made.It's also irrevelant in the MVP discussion. Sure, you could say those 3 QB's are 'more valuable' to their teams than Vick is to the Eagles because of the competent backup play. But that's never been part of the MVP criteria. It's almost always a guy with freakish individual stats on a playoff-caliber team. Heck, some place kickers are FAR BETTER than their replacements. Talk to Detroit. Maybe Hanson should be the MVP.

 

[unckeyherb]

Right now, no. He has yet to play three full games in a row this year, and the drop-off from him to Kolb isn't nearly as severe as Rivers, Brady or Peyton to all of their backups is. In other words, those three QBs are all much more valuable to their teams than Vick is to his, so therefore, no.

But I suspect some will overreact to a single game and talk like he is the frontrunner right now.

This is completely asinine.

Kevin Kolb started for the Eagles in their 14-point win over the 7-2 Falcons. Do you think the Patriots could lose Brady and still beat a 7-2 team by double digits? Or Manning and the Colts? Or Rivers and the Chargers? I'll hang up and listen.

How has this ever been a standard by which MVP candidates are measured? You are saying that when Peyton won his MVPs, if they had a better backup he might not have won?

 

[Ghost Rider]

Right now, no. He has yet to play three full games in a row this year, and the drop-off from him to Kolb isn't nearly as severe as Rivers, Brady or Peyton to all of their backups is. In other words, those three QBs are all much more valuable to their teams than Vick is to his, so therefore, no.

But I suspect some will overreact to a single game and talk like he is the frontrunner right now.

This is completely asinine.

Kevin Kolb started for the Eagles in their 14-point win over the 7-2 Falcons. Do you think the Patriots could lose Brady and still beat a 7-2 team by double digits? Or Manning and the Colts? Or Rivers and the Chargers? I'll hang up and listen.

So Vick should be punished because the Colts never bother to roster a decent backup QB?

Nice job dodging the question there. Even if the Colts had a decent backup, where would they really be with that average defense and a million injuries on offense. Them being 6-3 is another testament to how good Peyton Manning is. Again, Vick is playing great, but while it wouldn't have been as impressive, given how the Redskins laid down last night, I have no doubt that Kolb could have started last night and the Eagles would have still cruised to a win.

I think the Eagles have shown this year that they can start either QB and win. It looks better when Vick is in there, because he is better than Kolb, but it makes him less valuable than those other guys are to their teams.

And if you all want to focus back on numbers and performance, rather than the dropoff to their respective backups, perhaps we should focus again on how Vick has only played four full games out of nine this year, no?

 

[Ghost Rider]

How has this ever been a standard by which MVP candidates are measured?

Has an MVP ever been a QB who only played about half of the season?

 

[gianmarco]

How has this ever been a standard by which MVP candidates are measured?

Has an MVP ever been a QB who only played about half of the season?

Half of the season? You keep saying people need to reread what you're saying and I suggest you do the same. If he plays the rest of the games of the season, he will have played in 12 of 16 games of the season. How is that "half the season"? Peyton routinely sits out 2 games/year. How is 12 games not enough to be an MVP candidate?Even though it's week 11, it's still "early". But, as there's no reason to assume he won't finish the season, if he continues at anything close to what he's doing now, how is he not a candidate if he does this over 12 games?

 

[Ghost Rider]

gianmarco,

I already said he would be IF he plays the rest of the season, but I am talking RIGHT NOW. I believe I said that earlier.

 

[unckeyherb]

gianmarco,I already said he would be IF he plays the rest of the season, but I am talking RIGHT NOW. I believe I said that earlier.

as of right now the guy has contributed to a record breaking monday night performance and has put up better team and individual numbers in four games than many have put up all season. Many (including myself) had the Eagles at 8-8 this year. They are tied for first in their division after laying waste to an opponent that beat them earlier this year (when Vick was NOT playing). To say that he is not in the discussion in week 11 seems strange.

 

[videoguy505]

Suddenly everyone is sure he's better than Manning.

 

[Tau837]

Serious question (I don't know the answer): in a non-strike season, has the MVP ever played as few as 12 games?

 

[NoCheese]

Since Vick has beat up on 3 bottom feeder defenses in Detroit, Jacksonville, and Washington and looked good but not great vs. Indy, how can we be sure he's a better fit thank Kolb going forward?

 

[pantagrapher]

Since Vick has beat up on 3 bottom feeder defenses in Detroit, Jacksonville, and Washington and looked good but not great vs. Indy, how can we be sure he's a better fit thank Kolb going forward?

 

[CalBear]

Kevin Kolb started for the Eagles in their 14-point win over the 7-2 Falcons. Do you think the Patriots could lose Brady and still beat a 7-2 team by double digits? Or Manning and the Colts? Or Rivers and the Chargers? I'll hang up and listen.

The Patriots lost Brady a couple years ago and went 11-5, with a QB who since then is 9-15 as a starter. That year included a 20-point win over a Miami team that ended 11-5, with Cassel going for over 400 yards and 4 TDs in that game.

 

[Carver]

he's a dog killer , end of story. I am sure I'll hear, "He did his time ....," blah, blah, blah, don't care, he's a POS and should be blacklisted ...

 

[Phurfur]

What does this have to do with Fantasy Football?

 

[unckeyherb]

Since Vick has beat up on 3 bottom feeder defenses in Detroit, Jacksonville, and Washington and looked good but not great vs. Indy, how can we be sure he's a better fit thank Kolb going forward?

Kolb lost to the team that Vick just beat seven shades of ####e out of. Next question.

 

[Tau837]

I think his performance to date has made him a candidate, but:

1. I expect his performance to drop off, though at this point it certainly seems likely that he will have great numbers... say 3500 passing yards, 24 passing TDs, 750 rushing yards, and 8 rushing TDs. Passing wise, those numbers don't represent much of a dropoff at all from his performance to date. The rushing numbers do represent a slight dropoff. It is possible he could exceed these numbers but IMO it is much more likely he will fall short of these.

2. Those numbers assume he will stay healthy, which is no given.

3. IMO the 2-1 record with Kolb and the victory over the Falcons without Vick is a minor factor that some will consider.

4. IMO Vick's past will be a factor for some voters, whether or not that is right.

All that said, suppose:

1. Peyton Manning leads the Colts to a division title and throws for 4800 yards and 33 TDs in 16 games.

2. Rivers breaks the passing yardage record and throws for 33 TDs while leading the Chargers to a division title.

3. Vick plays the rest of the games, the Eagles win their division, and Vick achieves the numbers above.

Winning and playoff position would likely be similar. TD production would be similar for all three players. Vick may very well have the fewest turnovers, but total yardage would be +600 for Manning and +900 for Rivers. We know Manning and Rivers will have done that despite numerous missed games from their key offensive teammates, which has not affected Vick in the same manner (so far).

IMO in that kind of scenario, Vick would finish behind both Rivers and Manning. I think both of them would have to drop off considerably, and/or their teams would have to falter and miss the playoffs (most likely for the Chargers), and it would have to be the case that no other more compelling candidates emerge (e.g., Brady, if the Pats keep winning).

 

[bostonfred]

Week 1 - Vick took over midgame against Green Bay the same game that Green Bay lost Grant. Yes, they won the game, but Philly was totally unprepared for Vick, and had just lost a huge part of their offense in the same game. Vick was 16 of 24 for 175 yards and 1 TD? Not great, not bad for a midgame replacement. 11 rushes for 103 yards? Wow. It's hard to say because the defense hadn't been preparing for Vick. The Eagles hadn't prepared to run the offense with Vick, either, and ending up losing the game.

Week 2 - Vick played against Detroit, 21 of 34 passing for 284 yards and 2 TDs, with 8 rushes for 37 yards. Very good, but again, it's Detroit.

Weel 3 - Jacksonville is struggling. Garrard has a brutal game - 13 of 30 for 105 yards and an INT. Vick is better. 17 of 31 for 291 yards and 3 TDs, plus another 4 rushes for 30 yards and a TD on the ground.

Week 4 - Vick hurt in the first Washington game. He was 5 of 7 for 49 yards when he left. The Eagles lose the game.

Weeks 5-7 - Vick out.

Week 8 - Vick returns against Indy. He's 17 of 29 for 218 yards and a TD with another 10 rushes for 74 yards and a TD on the ground.

Week 9 - Vick is 20 of 28 for 333 yards and 4 TDs with another 8 rushes for 80 yards and 2 TDs on the ground. Absurd.

Last night's game was outstanding. All of his games have been at least very good. But none of them have been against top defenses. I'd say that he's a legit contender, but it really depends how well he plays down the stretch when he plays the Giants twice, the Bears in Chicago, and Minnesota, as well as the off and on Cowboys twice and Houston. I'd say he has a chance to do it, but it's going to be a lot tougher the next couple weeks.

 

[fred_1_15301]

Right now, no. He has yet to play three full games in a row this year, and the drop-off from him to Kolb isn't nearly as severe as Rivers, Brady or Peyton to all of their backups is. In other words, those three QBs are all much more valuable to their teams than Vick is to his, so therefore, no.

But I suspect some will overreact to a single game and talk like he is the frontrunner right now.

This is completely asinine.

Kevin Kolb started for the Eagles in their 14-point win over the 7-2 Falcons. Do you think the Patriots could lose Brady and still beat a 7-2 team by double digits? Or Manning and the Colts? Or Rivers and the Chargers? I'll hang up and listen.

So Vick should be punished because the Colts never bother to roster a decent backup QB?

Nice job dodging the question there. Even if the Colts had a decent backup, where would they really be with that average defense and a million injuries on offense. Them being 6-3 is another testament to how good Peyton Manning is. Again, Vick is playing great, but while it wouldn't have been as impressive, given how the Redskins laid down last night, I have no doubt that Kolb could have started last night and the Eagles would have still cruised to a win.

I think the Eagles have shown this year that they can start either QB and win. It looks better when Vick is in there, because he is better than Kolb, but it makes him less valuable than those other guys are to their teams.

And if you all want to focus back on numbers and performance, rather than the dropoff to their respective backups, perhaps we should focus again on how Vick has only played four full games out of nine this year, no?

I think the dropoff from Vick to Kolb is a lot bigger than you're making it out and this can not necessarily be measured by win/loss record. The Eagles offensive line is a problem but you wouldn't know it with Vick in there. With Kolb in there, I'm not necessarily even sure it looks like the "Redskins laid down". With Vick playing at his potential, he's basically unstoppable. With Kolb at his potential, not sure the same could be said.

 

[unckeyherb]

Week 1 - Vick took over midgame against Green Bay the same game that Green Bay lost Grant. Yes, they won the game, but Philly was totally unprepared for Vick, and had just lost a huge part of their offense in the same game. Vick was 16 of 24 for 175 yards and 1 TD? Not great, not bad for a midgame replacement. 11 rushes for 103 yards? Wow. It's hard to say because the defense hadn't been preparing for Vick. The Eagles hadn't prepared to run the offense with Vick, either, and ending up losing the game.

Week 2 - Vick played against Detroit, 21 of 34 passing for 284 yards and 2 TDs, with 8 rushes for 37 yards. Very good, but again, it's Detroit.

Weel 3 - Jacksonville is struggling. Garrard has a brutal game - 13 of 30 for 105 yards and an INT. Vick is better. 17 of 31 for 291 yards and 3 TDs, plus another 4 rushes for 30 yards and a TD on the ground.

Week 4 - Vick hurt in the first Washington game. He was 5 of 7 for 49 yards when he left. The Eagles lose the game.

Weeks 5-7 - Vick out.

Week 8 - Vick returns against Indy. He's 17 of 29 for 218 yards and a TD with another 10 rushes for 74 yards and a TD on the ground.

Week 9 - Vick is 20 of 28 for 333 yards and 4 TDs with another 8 rushes for 80 yards and 2 TDs on the ground. Absurd.

Last night's game was outstanding. All of his games have been at least very good. But none of them have been against top defenses. I'd say that he's a legit contender, but it really depends how well he plays down the stretch when he plays the Giants twice, the Bears in Chicago, and Minnesota, as well as the off and on Cowboys twice and Houston. I'd say he has a chance to do it, but it's going to be a lot tougher the next couple weeks.

Good Posting. I'd say this though, regarding everyone syaing "well it was only against crap defenses": the guy plays who he plays. It's not his fault he is playing against sub-par defenses. He puts up good to great numbers against the opponents he faces. I could easily use that argument against Manning, who has put some stinkers up against meh defenses as well (244/1 int/0 Ints against KC and 185/o TDs against Cincy). Manning has has huge games against the likes of Denver, Jacksonville, Washington and Houston twice. Just saying, thats a poor argument against the quality of QB play.

 

[silentmark]

he's a dog killer , end of story. I am sure I'll hear, "He did his time ....," blah, blah, blah, don't care, he's a POS and should be blacklisted ...

Sounds like someone who's fantasy team was up by 45pts and going against Vick last night......

Not even close and this has nothing to do with FF ...

 

[silentmark]

he's a dog killer , end of story. I am sure I'll hear, "He did his time ....," blah, blah, blah, don't care, he's a POS and should be blacklisted ...

I'm sure you've done nothing for which you would be ashamed and because of which people may discount you for the rest of your life.Redemption and changing one's life is a positive thing. And it is possible. And you take the easy road and judge regardless of how the person has paid for his mistakes and how much he regrets them.

DOG KILLER. Sorry but no "normal" person advocates the murdering of dogs for sport. As I said, blacklisted ...

 

[dagwood]

he's a dog killer , end of story. I am sure I'll hear, "He did his time ....," blah, blah, blah, don't care, he's a POS and should be blacklisted ...

I'm sure you've done nothing for which you would be ashamed and because of which people may discount you for the rest of your life.Redemption and changing one's life is a positive thing. And it is possible. And you take the easy road and judge regardless of how the person has paid for his mistakes and how much he regrets them.

DOG KILLER. Sorry but no "normal" person advocates the murdering of dogs for sport. As I said, blacklisted ...

We know where you stand. Now go away please.TIA