Issues with the Chargers? (1 Viewer)

[Maurile Tremblay]

2. My bad, I believe it was closer to 650K.

He was offered a six-year deal with a $6 million signing bonus, $3.16 million roster bonus, and base salaries averaging over $2.2 million a year -- with incentives that could take the whole deal up to $40 million.

That's more than $650K.

The deal he ended up signing was the one that had been on the table.

Edit: You may be thinking of the tender offer, which was around $350K. But that's not what the Chargers were asking him to play for. That's an automatic one-year tender for a third-year exclusive rights free agent. The Chargers had a long-term deal on the table that they'd been negotiating with Gates' agent for many months.

 

[Maurile Tremblay]

punitive measure

This is not quite correct, as I explained a few posts back. "Punitive" would mean that the Chargers wanted Gates to have to sit out as some kind of punishment. But they didn't want him to have to sit out. They wanted him to report. Even after he failed to report, they didn't want him to have to sit out, but that was the rule.

 

[cstu]

Yeah, with guys like Edwards, Brees and Shottenheimer, who Smith is trying to get rid of. And don't forget Gates who was suspended because he was not under contract and was the best TE in the game, and selfishly wanted to make more than 350K a year. And don't forget the increasing distance between team and city over non-onfield FO decisions.

1) I don't think it's possible to suspend a player that's not under contract with your team.2) Gates wasn't under contract, but was being offered more than 350k a year to sign a contract.

3) The only reason Gates is on the team is because AJ brought him in(for next to nothing). If it wasn't for AJ giving Gates the opportunity(and Gates obviously capitalizing on the opportunity) we would never have heard of Gates.

4) Distances between teams/cities are directly proportional to winning. If SD gets into the second round of the playoffs there won't be many fans that remember whether Donnie Edwards was shopped or not. I didn't hear many PIT fans complaining that sure, they won the superbowl but they were still really steamed that Hines Ward wasn't rewarded for his play on the field before the season began with a contract extension. If you win all that stuff is forgotten.

4. Not fan support, city and front office relations. Stadium leases, practice facilities, and the impending move of the team (whether to Chula Vista or Escondido or Los Angeles or wherever)3. Not everything he does is bad.

2. My bad, I believe it was closer to 650K. Either way it was millions too little for Gates to sign.

1. It may not have been a dictionary suspension, but that's essentially what it was. It was a hardball punitive measure used as a negotiation lever against Gates. It was dirty pool, and it cost them a game.

Maybe AJ should take tips from Seattle's front office on how to keep players.

 

[jetsman]

Smith tried to get something for him after that season. No one was willing to trade away what a Pro-Bowl Quarterback was worth for a guy who had only one good (at the time, perhaps fluky) season.

so he got maybe a 3rd round pick for a Pro Bowl QB, Are you saying he couldnt have traded Rivers ? He had other options he chose not to exercise. He could have traded out of the 1st pick and not gotten into the whole Manning situation. It looks to me like AJ Smith got into a stare down with the Manning's and when Eli started to show he was the real deal this year, Smith decided He had to get his boy on the field to show he wasn't the guy who had the number one pick and and wasted it on a backup QB. I'm not privy to the dynamic in San Diego, I'll admit that.... but it appears to me that Smith has been in an ego contest with Schottenheimer and the players, trying to prove he's the one with the Biggest winky..

just mt 02 cents

After last season, if they traded Rivers, they would have taken a 10M+ salary cap hit and been left with Brees as the only experienced QB in the offense, with no certainty as to how his rehab would go and how well he would recover from his injury. Instead, they have a great young QB and a lot of cap room.I felt they should go with Rivers after the 2005 season and felt they should do it after the 2006 season even before Brees was hurt. But it truly became a nobrainer after Brees's injury.

thank you at least you understood my response, others Like maurile totally missed the point, namely that there were other options that Smith could have explored.the whole lets draft Manning despite his I wont report stance was foolish. You Either take him and let him sit, or you trade out of the spot, they forced the whole scenario on themselves by not doing one or the other. here in New york it was common knowledge that Smith was a Rivers guy, and that he wanted two firsts and Osi Umenyiora, to move out of the one position. he may have gotten it too if he didnt let his ego get in the way and didnt want to appear weak by giving in to the Mannings. When Accorsi was smaart enough to then Draft Rivers He was able to Leverage Osi Umenyiora out of the deal. or at least thats what Accorsi has said.

the whole point being that AJ Smith has let his ego affect his decisions, but if you look at his decisions so far he's done a great job. I was just wondering if his desire to get Rivers an opportunity might have precipitated the loss of Brees for less than market value.?

 

[Tau837]

Smith tried to get something for him after that season. No one was willing to trade away what a Pro-Bowl Quarterback was worth for a guy who had only one good (at the time, perhaps fluky) season.

so he got maybe a 3rd round pick for a Pro Bowl QB, Are you saying he couldnt have traded Rivers ?  He had other options he chose not to exercise. He could have traded out of the 1st pick and not gotten into the whole Manning situation.  It looks to me like AJ Smith got into a stare down with the Manning's and when Eli started to show he was the real deal this year, Smith decided He had to get his boy on the field to show he wasn't the guy who had the number one pick and and wasted it on a backup QB.  I'm not privy to the dynamic in San Diego, I'll admit that....  but it appears to me that Smith has  been in an ego contest with Schottenheimer and the players, trying to prove he's the one with the Biggest winky..

just mt 02 cents

After last season, if they traded Rivers, they would have taken a 10M+ salary cap hit and been left with Brees as the only experienced QB in the offense, with no certainty as to how his rehab would go and how well he would recover from his injury. Instead, they have a great young QB and a lot of cap room.I felt they should go with Rivers after the 2005 season and felt they should do it after the 2006 season even before Brees was hurt. But it truly became a nobrainer after Brees's injury.

thank you at least you understood my response, others Like maurile totally missed the point, namely that there were other options that Smith could have explored.the whole lets draft Manning despite his I wont report stance was foolish. You Either take him and let him sit, or you trade out of the spot, they forced the whole scenario on themselves by not doing one or the other. here in New york it was common knowledge that Smith was a Rivers guy, and that he wanted two firsts and Osi Umenyiora, to move out of the one position. he may have gotten it too if he didnt let his ego get in the way and didnt want to appear weak by giving in to the Mannings. When Accorsi was smaart enough to then Draft Rivers He was able to Leverage Osi Umenyiora out of the deal. or at least thats what Accorsi has said.

the whole point being that AJ Smith has let his ego affect his decisions, but if you look at his decisions so far he's done a great job. I was just wondering if his desire to get Rivers an opportunity might have precipitated the loss of Brees for less than market value.?

No offense, but I'm not sure how you interpreted my post as agreeing with you. Let me emphasize that I don't. I was responding only to your statement that Smith could have traded Rivers instead. And I completely disagree with that notion, as I stated.

As for the rest of your post, I think Rivers is going to be a great QB, and better than Brees, so I think they did the right thing by working the draft day trade to get him plus the other value obtained in the trade and ultimately keeping him instead of Brees.

If I am on a side here, it is Maurile's.

 

[tommyGunZ]

the whole lets draft Manning despite his I wont report stance was foolish. You Either take him and let him sit, or you trade out of the spot, they forced the whole scenario on themselves by not doing one or the other. here in New york it was common knowledge that Smith was a Rivers guy, and that he wanted two firsts and Osi Umenyiora, to move out of the one position. he may have gotten it too if he didnt let his ego get in the way and didnt want to appear weak by giving in to the Mannings. When Accorsi was smaart enough to then Draft Rivers He was able to Leverage Osi Umenyiora out of the deal. or at least thats what Accorsi has said.

the whole point being that AJ Smith has let his ego affect his decisions, but if you look at his decisions so far he's done a great job. I was just wondering if his desire to get Rivers an opportunity might have precipitated the loss of Brees for less than market value.?

So AJ Smith turning the #1 overall pick in 2004 into: Phillip Rivers, Shawne Merriman, Nate Kaeding, and Roman Oben (the Chargers starting LT the last 2 seasons) was "foolish"?

 

[BoltBacker]

1. It may not have been a dictionary suspension, but that's essentially what it was. It was a hardball punitive measure used as a negotiation lever against Gates. It was dirty pool, and it cost them a game.

"Dirty Pool"?Is it dirty pool to slap the franchise tag on Walter Jones year after year until he decides to sign a long term deal despite the fact he's never allowed to shop his services to the highest bidder after his contract has expired?

Is it dirty pool to release a player before the contract you've signed him too has expired?

Is it dirty pool to ask a veteran to take a paycut or he'll be released?

Maybe.

Those with leverage use that leverage to their advantage and those without leverage pay the price for not having it. Call it "dirty pool". Say "lifes not fair!". Call it what you want. It is what it is as agreed upon by the P-L-A-Y-E-R-S U-N-I-O-N. If it is dirty pool it's being played on Gates by Gene Upshaw.

 

[Despyzer]

Smith tried to get something for him after that season. No one was willing to trade away what a Pro-Bowl Quarterback was worth for a guy who had only one good (at the time, perhaps fluky) season.

so he got maybe a 3rd round pick for a Pro Bowl QB, Are you saying he couldnt have traded Rivers ? He had other options he chose not to exercise. He could have traded out of the 1st pick and not gotten into the whole Manning situation. It looks to me like AJ Smith got into a stare down with the Manning's and when Eli started to show he was the real deal this year, Smith decided He had to get his boy on the field to show he wasn't the guy who had the number one pick and and wasted it on a backup QB. I'm not privy to the dynamic in San Diego, I'll admit that.... but it appears to me that Smith has been in an ego contest with Schottenheimer and the players, trying to prove he's the one with the Biggest winky..

just mt 02 cents

You cut off the part where I already addressed this...

Smith wasn't sold on Brees after one perspective season either, especially with a guy on the bench who was making serious cash and who the whole organization felt was the future of the franchise.