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Jahvid Best Thread (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter WVU Alum
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WVU Alum
Footballguy
He is off to a faster start than RRice last year. Is the top scoring FF player. Plays on a bad team. In Non-PPR he is still #1.
What does his schedule look like in the playoffs? Can he avoid the rookie wall?
Week 14: GB
Week 15: @TB
Week 16: @Miami
What does his schedule look like in the playoffs? Can he avoid the rookie wall?
Week 14: GB
Week 15: @TB
Week 16: @Miami
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Happy Ragnarok
Footballguy
Not sure what got the other one locked. Guess it's bad form to question a board fave.
All I'll say in this one, before I check out, is this: I have serious questions about whether this guy can run the ball effectively, and I think that limits his upside considerably.
He faces what I feel are two pretty good run D's the next two games, so we'll see soon enough. If he shreds them, I'll joyfully eat my words. I can't help but root for the Lions. To do otherwise would be like kicking a crippled puppy. But if Best looks against MIN and GB like he looked vs the Bears, you'll have lost your chance to sell high, the Lions will be 0-4, and there'll be rumblings about what DET can do to get a running game going. S'all I'm saying.
Good luck to all owners, no matter which path you travel. I chose to sell high.
All I'll say in this one, before I check out, is this: I have serious questions about whether this guy can run the ball effectively, and I think that limits his upside considerably.
He faces what I feel are two pretty good run D's the next two games, so we'll see soon enough. If he shreds them, I'll joyfully eat my words. I can't help but root for the Lions. To do otherwise would be like kicking a crippled puppy. But if Best looks against MIN and GB like he looked vs the Bears, you'll have lost your chance to sell high, the Lions will be 0-4, and there'll be rumblings about what DET can do to get a running game going. S'all I'm saying.
Good luck to all owners, no matter which path you travel. I chose to sell high.
Touchdown There
Footballguy
I would sell high also. The Lions are 0-2. Coming up on the schedule is @Min, @GB, STL, and @NYG. If they win one of these games, it is the home game vs STL. I still think that will be 50/50, but what happens to a team when they are 1-5? The season is done and players quit. Best may not quit, but if the guys blocking for you quit, it is going to be rough.
3.2 YPC right now. How does this improve when the team quits like they always do, because they are the Lions?
3.2 YPC right now. How does this improve when the team quits like they always do, because they are the Lions?
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Grahamburn
Footballguy
I'm guessing the other thread got locked because the tool factor was off the charts in there.
What I'm seeing from Jahvid and the Lions is that they're planning on using him in their passing game, alot, even if he's being stuffed running the ball. He's obviously an explosive player in space, and Detroit is utilizing that. This pass catching prowess coupled with his 3-down status in the Lions' offense is what makes him such a valuable fantasy commodity at the moment.
Best detractors will say he sometimes goes down on first contact and is an injury risk. His backers say he's a dynamic player with vision, moves, and electric burst. They're both right to some degree. It's only been two games. I'm not sure what else needs to be said that hasn't been said in Borbely's 12 page thread and the other one that went 4 pages.
Nobody can predict injury and I personally think Best will be fine running between the tackles. His vision is exceptional and his ability to stick his foot in the ground and explode up the field for big gains makes him a very special player right now.
He's looked pretty awesome so far.
What I'm seeing from Jahvid and the Lions is that they're planning on using him in their passing game, alot, even if he's being stuffed running the ball. He's obviously an explosive player in space, and Detroit is utilizing that. This pass catching prowess coupled with his 3-down status in the Lions' offense is what makes him such a valuable fantasy commodity at the moment.
Best detractors will say he sometimes goes down on first contact and is an injury risk. His backers say he's a dynamic player with vision, moves, and electric burst. They're both right to some degree. It's only been two games. I'm not sure what else needs to be said that hasn't been said in Borbely's 12 page thread and the other one that went 4 pages.
Nobody can predict injury and I personally think Best will be fine running between the tackles. His vision is exceptional and his ability to stick his foot in the ground and explode up the field for big gains makes him a very special player right now.
He's looked pretty awesome so far.
shnikies
Footballguy
Best will be the center piece of the Lions offense going forward IMO. With that being said don't the 5+ catches he'll almost certainly receive make him a must start elite option against any defense going forward at around 10 yards a reception? There are other ways to get this guy involved outside of the running game not to mention that it would take all of one run where he gets to the second level for him to score a long touchdown and he's already shown a knack for the end zone in short yardage situations. I just don't see how you can possibly not have faith in him. I also feel the injury argument is foolish other than the fact his handcuff won't have nearly as much value. All running backs are injury prone. I own Frank Gore in my main league and I had heart palpitations throughout the whole MNF game. You don't think Adrian Peterson is a huge injury risk the way he runs with the amount of carries he's getting?Out of curiosity, you said you sold high, may I ask what you got?
Best should have several long runs this year which will bring up his YPC. His longest play from scrimmage happened to be a screen pass but he certainly has the ability to break a long run or three. Hopefully, as the season progresses with Stafford back and the coaching staff finding more ways to get Best in space, perhaps his numbers will improve, at least from a rushing standpoint.
LittlePhatty
Footballguy
Not true at all.There are plenty of FF points to be had on losing teams.
Dought Man
Footballguy
Not to mention, a lot of times good teams put in their 2nd units in the 2nd half and "take their foot off the gas" when they are up big. Lots of time for garbage time points.
Yup, I can see Best getting a ton of receptions in little dumpoff passes and screens.
shnikies
Footballguy
Does the playoff schedule matter if you don't get there? Just wondering. It's a question a lot of people ignore.
If you think NFL players quit during the season, you have a pretty rudimentary point of view. This is not the NBA. These players have reputations to uphold and if they are not cutting it, they get cut. It is that simple. Nobody is going to quit, look at SJax last year, their team was awful and he played right to the bitter end right along with his crappy o-line and his terrible qb.
Touchdown There
Footballguy
You can have your opinion and I can have the opinion that you are a mad hatter. That is OK. Players quit all the time along with whole teams. Randy Moss in Oakland...heck, Oakland in general last year. http://www.nfl.com/teams/schedule?team=OAK...;seasonType=REGmeatwad1 said:
I watched Oakland in game 1. They came out game one hitting hard and looking like a different team against SD in2009. How did the rest of the season go? Same ol' Oakland. Very good comparison for the Lions. They are the Lions because they always give up. If you have to understand that players see their bodies as million dollar assets. When the season goes to crap, they do not lay their bodies on the line in the same way. This is why the bad teams seem to get worse as the season goes on.
Anyway, this seems like a thread hijack. I think Best is super talented and on a really poor team. Tough break for him. Also, no one knows how many reps Kevin Smith will eventually get.
ericttspikes
Footballguy
Love the talent and the production so far. The Lions play calling in game 1 vs. the Bears was awful. They obviously made an effort to change the game plan week 2 to get Best in space as a receiver. I have to think that as the season moves on and there is more film on the guy that defensive coordinators will game plan for him (good news for Calvin), it's just the way the NFL works. The TD pace he is on is incredible, but the odds of him keeping it up all year isn't good. He is a talented player though and even if the odds are against it, I suppose it's possible he ends up with 20+ TDs. That would be incredible. It's my experience that players even out over the course of a season. Those who start slow pick it up and those who start fast slow down.
ericttspikes
Footballguy
Another thing about Best that will be interesting to see how it plays out is that he is a rare RB in the NFL. A true bell cow. That is great for FF but I question any players ability to physically keep that up for a full 16 games. He's got young legs but in today's NFL there is usually a few guys to pound on D's for the speedy guys to stay fresh. The Lion's probably are unique in that they won't win a lot of games so their RB doesn't need to move chains, so maybe Best is perfect for their situation. They need playmakers to catch up not run clock.
LarryAllen'sJockstrap
Footballguy
Other YPCs right now:Ray Rice - 3.5Velveeta22 said:
MJD - 3.7
Steven Jackson - 3.8
Cedric Benson - 3.2
Perre Thomas - 3.2
DeAngelo Williams - 3.5
Knowshon Moreno - 2.8
Shone Greene - 3.5
2 games is way too small of a sample to make any conclusions.
Ugh! This gets very tiresome. You have shown 1 stat which is very misleading, YPC. First off, he has only played 2 games in the NFL, any "average" is close to worthless. His career YPC will without doubt be very different than 3.2. Secondly, it is one stat and you are leaving out everything else which proves the other side of the argument. For instance his yards per touch, which is a far more important number because it takes into account rushes and receptions is through the roof. This is the highest scoring fantasy player! Obviously he has done something right. You have found the 1 stat which doesn't show it while ignoring everything else. Not to mention that the 1 stat you're using is irrelevant due to the sample size argument.Velveeta22 said:
Clifford
Footballguy
The real question is whether owners offer him for Rice which I am contemplating.
Rice has earned stud status with a full season of awesome performances. However, he has not one but two TD vultures and comes out at the GL.
Best gets GL love but does not have the track record. He passes the eyeball test as well as any RB I have seen in week 2. Week 1 was his first real game action which should earn him a pass, and he was going against a great Chicago run D.
Or, do you offer him for someone like McFadden or McCoy + another upgrade elsewhere.
I don't think his value will be any higher than it is right now. It's just a matter of how to maximize that. Rice seems about right.
Rice has earned stud status with a full season of awesome performances. However, he has not one but two TD vultures and comes out at the GL.
Best gets GL love but does not have the track record. He passes the eyeball test as well as any RB I have seen in week 2. Week 1 was his first real game action which should earn him a pass, and he was going against a great Chicago run D.
Or, do you offer him for someone like McFadden or McCoy + another upgrade elsewhere.
I don't think his value will be any higher than it is right now. It's just a matter of how to maximize that. Rice seems about right.
I'm a big best supporter but that's a great trade for you. Of course i discount a lot of what people claim on the Internet. Not you specifically, but I wonder how many of the claims which people make on this website regarding trades/drafts are true? I just can't see anyone trading Rice for Best. As a best owner, i would jump all over that deal.howo5 said:
Just a heads-up ... McGahee vultured almost all his 12 TDs from Rice last season and Rice did just fine. If you could get Rice for Best then I think you would do it with little thought about it.
Happy Ragnarok
Footballguy
Which would you say is more irrelevant:A two game sample size showing a player is a 3.2 YPC runner...orA zero game sample size showing a player is an elite runner.Furthermore, which of THESE would you say is more irrelevant:A one game sample showing a player is a 9/154 guy receiving the ball out of the backfield...orA one game sample showing a player is a 5/16 guy receiving the ball out of the backfield?Best has run average-to-poorly both games of his NFL career. He has been a dynamic, explosive receiver once in his NFL career. He has also been an ineffective receiver once in his NFL career. He has been an excellent TD producer twice. None of it is big enough, sample size wise, to draw any conclusions. But why does that mean we automatically ought to accept the rosiest possible interpretation of those numbers?
Leroy Hoard
Footballguy
As long as the defense is being stretched there will be open spaces, which is what Best needs most.
shnikies
Footballguy
What if he follows up last week with a big week against the Vikings? It could happen and if it does I don't see how he's not a top 5 commodity in fantasy football. It's obviously a big "if" since it's the vikings but crazier things have happened.
In PPR leagues that is correct. People focusing on his YPC are barking up the wrong tree. Won't make a difference.
Lamont Jordan taught me this lesson in 2005 when I had the good fortune to own him. Lamont was an average talent on an a team filled with Randy Moss giving less than his all and a bunch of average talent. His YPC was a pedestrian 3.76. But in the 14 games he played Lamont only failed to reach double digit points once and went over 15 points in 11 out of the 14 games. He was one of the most consistent PPR fantasy backs , was basically match up proof, and he could not run worth crap. He two things going for him. A wideout in Randy Moss who opened up the field for him and a offensive system in place to get him the ball in the passing game. Sound familiar?
shnikies
Footballguy
You said you sold high on him earlier in the thread. I have him in all of my leagues so I was wondering what you got for him.
Touchdown There
Footballguy
There is no "stretching the field" going on with the Lions. They stinks, same as the last few years. I watched Best in the first game. I like the way he ran. I do not like the way he is hit almost immediately. He only has relevant fantasy stats because they force feed him the ball. Best will not be the Best. He plays for the the worst. Math tells me Best = Average. Acid plus a base is neutral. Sell high.
shnikies
Footballguy
Why are people still using the Bears game as such a negative example? I think it's pretty evident the Bears have a top run defense in the NFL. They held the Cowboys to 36 yards on 20 carries, I know the Cowboys run game isn't that great but that's still pretty impressive for the Bears. Not to mention, Best was able to run touchdowns in from 4 and 7 and Barber couldn't do it from the 1.
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Chicago Hooligan
Footballguy
Close to unbenchable, though if you drafted him in a later round you could have a very crowded RB stable (sigh). I am sure not benching him this week after doing so in 3 leagues last week.I also offered him as part of a package for Shonn Greene last week, which was rejected. The universe is trying to tell me something. Well probably lots of things but one of them is start Jahvid Best.
skinsrule05
Footballguy
He said in the other thread he traded Best and Welker into SJax and Moss. I am starting to understand why he is so anti-Best. Buyer's remorse
LawFitz
Footballguy
Sweet, you sold what my eyeballs tell me will be a top 5 pick next season. My eyeballs haven't said this about a player after two games since AP's rookie season. That year people like you probably sold high on AP as well after a couple weeks. Some owners that year traded AP for the likes of Joey Addai after two weeks b/c they thought they were selling high. How'd that work out? Sometimes you have to throw the numbers aside and trust what you see on the field. And in this case, you don't even have to throw out any numbers. #1 player in FF. How's that for a number?All that aside, it now makes more sense why you're so adamant about degrading Best's performance so far. In your belly, you fear you've made a big mistake and conveying your sell logic on these boards is making you feel a bit better. Sadly, that tonic is fleeting. The real medicine (good or bad) will be served over the rest of the season as you watch Best do his thing.Happy Ragnarok said:Good luck to all owners, no matter which path you travel. I chose to sell high.
unckeyherb
Footballguy
He is the #1 player in fantasy football right now. But if you want to throw out the numbers, fine. He did mediocre in his debut against what is looking to be a revitalized Chicago defense. He admitted that he was nervous and hesitant. There was no hesitation as he frigging carved up my Birds. The dump pass that he turned into a 70 yard TD run showed me all I need to know. He made a couple of tacklers miss and then it frankly looked fake and comical when he shifted into 5th gear and blew away from everyone. It reminded me of the scene in Forest Gump when he breaks out of the leg braces and is literally gone in a cloud of dust. FWIW, you may be right about him not being an elite runner (I don't think so, obviously) but even if thats true, his recieving ability and the fact that one missed tackle could lead to a homerun negates any perceived inability as a runner.Congrats on getting older at RB and WR through your trade though. We'll see how it works out throughout the season, this weekend should be a pretty good test.
CalBear
Footballguy
17/78, 4.59 ypc with a TD is not running "average to poorly". That's a good game. So we have one game where he had low YPC but scored twice on good runs, and one game where he ran well out of the backfield (and scored) and went bananas in the passing game. So the only negative data point is that he had low YPC against the Bears--just like Marion Barber and Felix Jones did in week 2.
Happy Ragnarok
Footballguy
I put TD's in a separate category, which I gave him all the praise in the world for.17/78 I would put squarely in the "average" camp. A bit better than average in the YPC sense, a bit of a downer in the yards sense. You're welcome to disagree. Not sure why you would, though. Obviously, he was bananas as a receiver that game, and his overall contribution in it was stellar, when you take all three factors and combine them. I found the rushing aspect pretty meh. Not bad, just meh.However, it was bad the first game. That was the poor one.Thus, "average-to-poor" on balance. And he's looked bad on WAY more runs than he's looked good. And the ones where he looked good, weren't exactly of the homerun variety either.
Happy Ragnarok
Footballguy
Okay, okay. That's enough.
I'm done with Best analyzing until after the weekend. Point of the board is to look past the hype and make intelligent decisions based on the reality between the lines. I think I did in trading him off, others think they did in keeping him. Good luck to those who kept him. I wish yinz well.
I'm done with Best analyzing until after the weekend. Point of the board is to look past the hype and make intelligent decisions based on the reality between the lines. I think I did in trading him off, others think they did in keeping him. Good luck to those who kept him. I wish yinz well.
puckalicious
Footballguy
All I know is that Best has pretty darn good instincts, vision, patience, and open field moves. And he's fast. Much better than I thought he'd be.
However he does have a below average OL, and for now a below average QB. As we saw last week that didn't stop him from going bonkers against a pretty decent defense on the road.
I expect a pedestrian performance next week at MIN, but he is the type of talent that only needs that 1 miscue to take it to the house. The coaching staff seems to get this and is setting up plays for him to get loose in space.
However he does have a below average OL, and for now a below average QB. As we saw last week that didn't stop him from going bonkers against a pretty decent defense on the road.
I expect a pedestrian performance next week at MIN, but he is the type of talent that only needs that 1 miscue to take it to the house. The coaching staff seems to get this and is setting up plays for him to get loose in space.
Also, I wonder if the "goes down on first small contact" critism doesn't help him take the heavy load without an injury.
What if he gets one TD this weekend, would you still think so? What about two TDs? What if he gets no TDs but gets 100 receiving yards and less than 100 rushing?
Happy Ragnarok
Footballguy
Would I still think what? That I did well to sell high? Well, nothing is in a vacuum. For me, the result will have a lot to do with how well SJax does relative to Best for the rest of the season. It wasn't a straight up deal, so that's not the whole of it, but it's the meat of the matter for me.As to the rest, I'm not about to analyze whether I think he'll be disappointing to owners based on every possible permutation of yards, touchdowns, and receptions possible. Again, GL with him if you kept him.I think I did an okay job of not analyzing him any further, there.
Cliff Clavin
Footballguy
Reggie Bush V2.
Yeah that is what I meant, I was being genuine I have plenty of talent behind Best (R. Rice and M. Turner) they are having a slow start so im in less of a hurry to capitalize whether hes on my team or in a trade.But to me after his performance there is little value in trading him this early, next week he might have a poor showing and people will buy low on Best and if he has even 1 TD (or ~125 all purpose) next week I think that sets his value well into the top 5 RBs and if he under performs he will still have a higher ceiling than most of the top 10 backs.Would I still think what? That I did well to sell high? Well, nothing is in a vacuum. For me, the result will have a lot to do with how well SJax does relative to Best for the rest of the season. It wasn't a straight up deal, so that's not the whole of it, but it's the meat of the matter for me.As to the rest, I'm not about to analyze whether I think he'll be disappointing to owners based on every possible permutation of yards, touchdowns, and receptions possible. Again, GL with him if you kept him.
I think I did an okay job of not analyzing him any further, there.
Im just looking for opinions of what his perceived value is depending on how he may perform this week.
shnikies
Footballguy
Reggie Bush scored his first career touchdown in his 9th game. I'm pretty sure his name is Jahvid Best not Reggie Bush V2, there's nobody in the NFL named Reggie Bush V2 to the best of my knowledge.
Clifford
Footballguy
I didn't see a single run of those 17 where he left yards he could have gotten on the field by dancing, being hesitant, or going down too quickly. Detroit got behind early and went to the pass, which stands to reason why he got an amazing nine catches as a RB.
and 
