Johnny Ice
Footballguy
switz said:
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Jahvid Best (1 Viewer)
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You need to get up to date on Best. He is all that you don't think he is....just watch some of his college highlights on youtube. As far as comparing him to Sanders, there will only be one Sanders.....let's let Best develop and see how he does over a long, successful career before making comparisons.switz said:
CaptainHook
Footballguy
he's charlie garner
unckeyherb
Footballguy
I don't think this means what you think it means. Basing a projection on stats is not the same thing as predicting a random injury. HTH!
Dexter Manley
Footballguy
Calling those td's garbage and lucky are 2 of the dumbest things I've ever read on this site.That's significantly worse than the "if you take away his longest run his #'s don't look as good" argument.
Jayrod
Footballguy
#1 - I never called them garbage TD's....that was some other poster
#2 - Every RB that doesn't run the TD in from 10 yards out is lucky to get the TD. Many high quality backs in this league don't even get a chance to score from inside the 10 every week. Being in that position is the luck, punching it in is the skill. It's all about talent + opportunity...and opportunity always has a luck factor.
#3 - Saying I think a rookie with 2 season ending injuries in 3 years of college touching the ball 25 times a game on a turf surface will get injured is no more of a gamble than saying he will finish in the top 10 at RB this year.
#2 - Every RB that doesn't run the TD in from 10 yards out is lucky to get the TD. Many high quality backs in this league don't even get a chance to score from inside the 10 every week. Being in that position is the luck, punching it in is the skill. It's all about talent + opportunity...and opportunity always has a luck factor.
#3 - Saying I think a rookie with 2 season ending injuries in 3 years of college touching the ball 25 times a game on a turf surface will get injured is no more of a gamble than saying he will finish in the top 10 at RB this year.
scrumptrulescent
Footballguy
I see what you're saying and don't necessarily disagree, but others in the NFL have had injuries in college and have been fine in the NFL. Frank Gore was a mess during college, Adrian Peterson was an injury risk coming into the NFL.
The history of Best on the forum:
Pre-season: Sexy sleeper that you could grab in the 4th-6th rounds with upside as a solid RB2, especially in PPR.
Week 1: OMG, the sky is falling! Two junk TD's saved his scoring.
Week 2: OMG, he is the next Barry Sanders! You can ride him to the championship.
After watching both games, the preseason prediction is spot on.
Best is a solid runner who in the first game ran into a Chicago Defense that looks vastly improved. He still ran hard and made some catches. He admitted that he also was very nervous in his debut and left some yards on the field. In the second game he was on fire, the line played decent and Hill checked down to him quite a bit. The truth is somewhere in the middle, as some others have posted. He should be counted on for 4-5 catches per game and another 60-80 yards rushing. I will take those numbers out of a 4th+ rounder any day of the week.
Predicting doom because he is on the Lions is silly. If anything it is a bonus, the defense while improved is still poor. Most games will be a track meet with Best getting tons of opportunities. Factor in there is no other running back that will steal too many touches means Best is a solid weekly RB2.
Pre-season: Sexy sleeper that you could grab in the 4th-6th rounds with upside as a solid RB2, especially in PPR.
Week 1: OMG, the sky is falling! Two junk TD's saved his scoring.
Week 2: OMG, he is the next Barry Sanders! You can ride him to the championship.
After watching both games, the preseason prediction is spot on.
Best is a solid runner who in the first game ran into a Chicago Defense that looks vastly improved. He still ran hard and made some catches. He admitted that he also was very nervous in his debut and left some yards on the field. In the second game he was on fire, the line played decent and Hill checked down to him quite a bit. The truth is somewhere in the middle, as some others have posted. He should be counted on for 4-5 catches per game and another 60-80 yards rushing. I will take those numbers out of a 4th+ rounder any day of the week.
Predicting doom because he is on the Lions is silly. If anything it is a bonus, the defense while improved is still poor. Most games will be a track meet with Best getting tons of opportunities. Factor in there is no other running back that will steal too many touches means Best is a solid weekly RB2.
I don't know about you but I see a lot of people say "I think he will get x receiving yards, y rushing yards, and z touchdowns." Projecting in this sense is just stating an opinion that is possibly grounded in a trend. Which is the same thing as saying "I think he will get hurt" ... an opinion grounded in a trend.
Happy Ragnarok
Footballguy
No concern at all that more than half his carries so far have resulted in 1 yard or less?
It is a concern but I'm thinking it's more a reflection of Detroit's OL than with Best himself. With runners like Best, they usually offset the negative yardage carries with a long run or two. He hasn't done that yet but I'm pretty sure he'll break a long run before the season is over.
Franknbeans
Footballguy
on crack
Concern yes, in the Philly game if you look he was gashing them early. It appears Philly made the decision to stack the line and make Hill beat them, especially with Burelson out.He is a threat to take it to the house on any play. He still left some yards out there as he really didn't cut back, he just followed the play. I would expect for him to get a feel for that as he gets more game experience.
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unckeyherb
Footballguy
Projecting his current production over the span of 16 games is is not an opinion, but an educated guess. Its using actual data to formulate a projection. Predicting an injury is not based on any actual data. Someone rolling into your leg in a scrum is not something that can logically be projected. Besides, what trend in his professional career points to injury?
CaptainHook
Footballguy
charlie garner was criminally underrated. amazing speed. undersized. great receiver ~7ypc in college. i think back then they didnt really take the smaller backs seriously.http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CixSFswqFtE
but id sort of agree -- hes charlie garner with better vision
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rizzler
Footballguy
FFS.... do you honestly not realize how idiotic you sound when you post something like that!?!?!? easy TDs? defensive breakdowns? did you ever stop to think he MADE them look easy? that HE CREATED the defensive breakdown with vision and speed...Give me a break. make a valid argument.. not idiotic statements to discredit great TD runs.Lol dumb.Clifton said:It seemed like he's had a couple of easy TDs where there was a defensive breakdown. If we take a couple of those away, he's averaging one per game. Not exactly unheard of
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Dought Man
Footballguy
Pffft. Take away his first half TD's and he only has 1 on the year. Even Mario Manningham has done that. Do you consider Mario Manningham to be all that great? Obviously not.
Consider me NOT impressed. Real sharks play in 2nd half-point-only leagues.
Consider me NOT impressed. Real sharks play in 2nd half-point-only leagues.
Jayrod
Footballguy
Very clever of you to include that word.TWO out of last THREE seasons he ended the season prematurely with an injury. And that was against little college boys over a 12 game season. Now he is playing with grown men in a 16 game season. Good luck in your fantasy championships in week 16 without the RB that got you there.
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Yep!
Jayrod
Footballguy
I briefly contemplated taking him instead of Dez Bryant at the #2 rookie pick, but thought better of it for precisely the reason I'm stating in this thread.....little dudes flying around on turf with previous injury history do not last long in an NFL season.
Thanks for the support! I'll take my chances in the championship instead of watching someone else have a chance.
CalBear
Footballguy
Do you have any evidence that there are more injuries on FieldTurf than on natural grass?
Clifton
Footballguy
Careful with the idiotic comments, bud. That tone generally doesn't fly around here.FFS.... do you honestly not realize how idiotic you sound when you post something like that!?!?!? easy TDs? defensive breakdowns? did you ever stop to think he MADE them look easy? that HE CREATED the defensive breakdown with vision and speed...Give me a break. make a valid argument.. not idiotic statements to discredit great TD runs.Lol dumb.Clifton said:It seemed like he's had a couple of easy TDs where there was a defensive breakdown. If we take a couple of those away, he's averaging one per game. Not exactly unheard of
Tong Po
Footballguy
Man what college football games are you watching? I don't see too many "little college boys" playing on ABC and ESPN on Saturdays.
Frank Gore.Suffering a couple injuries in college doesn't mean you will always be hurt in the pros. Nor does being a durable college player guarantee durability as a pro. Play your good guys as long as they play well and hope you have enough depth to survive any injuries.
rizzler
Footballguy
My comments are no more idiotic than yours... back up your claim.. let's hear it. lets hear about the "easy TDs" and defensive breakdowns.... I watched both of his games and cant say I see even close to what youre referring to."take away 3 of his TDs, he;s averaging 1 per game"... you truly don't find that idiotic?Careful with the idiotic comments, bud. That tone generally doesn't fly around here.FFS.... do you honestly not realize how idiotic you sound when you post something like that!?!?!? easy TDs? defensive breakdowns? did you ever stop to think he MADE them look easy? that HE CREATED the defensive breakdown with vision and speed...Give me a break. make a valid argument.. not idiotic statements to discredit great TD runs.Lol dumb.Clifton said:It seemed like he's had a couple of easy TDs where there was a defensive breakdown. If we take a couple of those away, he's averaging one per game. Not exactly unheard of
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Jayrod
Footballguy
That's because they don't show many Pac-10 games.But seriously, the leap from college to pro athletes is substantial.
Jayrod
Footballguy
In Gore's rookie year he missed 2 games after getting a whopping 73 touches.I'm not saying bench Best. I'm just saying there is a very good chance he misses some time this year, so don't sell the farm to get him.
rizzler
Footballguy
There's a very good chance ANY rb can miss time. it's part of the position. Unpredictable tho
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Leroy Hoard
Footballguy
The poor man's Barry Sanders. The one thing he needs to learn from Barry is the art of not getting hit. Barry was very underrated for his not missing many games or even series, 15.3 games played per season over his 10 years.
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CaptainHook
Footballguy
theres probably a good chance every rb misses time every year
but thanks for your input jayrod
but please post evidence of smaller backs getting injured more etc if you have any because i see poeple talking about it all the time but have never seen evidence
but thanks for your input jayrod
but please post evidence of smaller backs getting injured more etc if you have any because i see poeple talking about it all the time but have never seen evidence
strong
Footballguy
unckeyherb
Footballguy
I don't think there is any evidence that shows he has a better chance of getting injured that anyone else. Football is a violent sport, and ####e happens. Would you label Ryant Grant as an injury risk before the season? Reggie Bush? Leonard Weaver? Three different body types all gone for the season (6 weeks in Bush's case.) What about ADP? He had major question marks coming out of college regarding injury history. McGahee is another. Who knows how Best will turn out, point is, you really can't predict this kind of stuff. Might as well ride his wave of monstrous games, hopefully to the playoffs. If you are a real Shark you drafted enough depth that you don't have to worry about injuries to your players.
shnikies
Footballguy
Why does everyone insist on using historical comparisons? Did you watch Best's game, does he look anything like Darren McFadden (not that it'd be a bad thing)?
switz
Footballguy
Stop making sense, it's not appreciated in this thread.
Happy Ragnarok
Footballguy
Did you watch Best's OTHER game?
switz
Footballguy
I did ... But apparently in this thread you are only allowed to judge Best on college highlights and NFL week 2.
Dragon1952
Footballguy
The guy has only played in 2 NFL games people....for crying out loud. How can you seriously even attempt to make an evaluation yet.
Happy Ragnarok
Footballguy
Ontogeny recapitulates phylogeny.
shnikies
Footballguy
I did and he didn't look like Darren McFadden in that one either. You know who he looked like? Jahvid Best.
Exactly. Took the words right out of my mouth...
strong
Footballguy
I saw both games. Both looked like other-world talent. McFadden came down with turf toe and has never looked the same since, outside the occasional flash of talent on a carry here or there. Who really knows whether he was (a) never that good but just had an awesome game or (b) if the turf toe couple with organizational dysfunctionality stunted his growth.I'm happy with Best's touchdowns, but reserving full-blown elation for when he proves he can consistently run the football after a hand-off.
LawFitz
Footballguy
All you have to do is watch him play (preseason and now two reg season games) and it's easy to make this call.Best is a special player. Few in the league match his burst: CJ2k, Charles, Sproles, Spillar. Of that list, only CJ2k matches his opportunity. All everything running back with explosive potential. Yes, please.
shnikies
Footballguy
Yeah that made SO much sense. I can play that game too.18 carries, 88 yards, 4 receptions 40 yard, 3 TDs
Eric Dickerson's second game
strong
Footballguy
That's exactly my point. Thank you. You are arguing that it's way too early to know what's in store for Best, right? And a second game where he breaks off some huge catches doesn't exactly enshrine him in Canton, right?
shnikies
Footballguy
The only point I was trying to make is people should stop pulling historical comparisons out of their asses just because it's easy. It's a waste of a post and the person who confirms it by saying "stop making sense, it's not appreciated in this thread" is even worse.
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