JaMarcus Russell reports to camp out of shape (1 Viewer)

[Banger]

This isn't a big deal, unless you already dislike Russell. Which a lot of people do.

It really doesn't have anything to do with liking or not liking a guy. It has to do with the fact that this guy was a top draft pick is being paid a ton of money and as a professional athlete your body is your livelihood. To me a player coming to camp out of shape tells me that they aren't focused and driven to be the best they can be. Everyone in the league has talent that's why they are in the league but it's often the little things that set apart the losers from the winners. He was one of the worst QB's in league on the worst team in the league and this being a critical year in his development his lackadaisical attitude is a huge red flag for me. You either have the mental focus and makeup or you don't and he just doesn't seem to get it.

 

[VonRomig]

This isn't a big deal, unless you already dislike Russell. Which a lot of people do.

It really doesn't have anything to do with liking or not liking a guy. It has to do with the fact that this guy was a top draft pick is being paid a ton of money and as a professional athlete your body is your livelihood. To me a player coming to camp out of shape tells me that they aren't focused and driven to be the best they can be. Everyone in the league has talent that's why they are in the league but it's often the little things that set apart the losers from the winners. He was one of the worst QB's in league on the worst team in the league and this being a critical year in his development his lackadaisical attitude is a huge red flag for me. You either have the mental focus and makeup or you don't and he just doesn't seem to get it.

Von

 

[bcr8f]

So, those that are hating on Russell will not be touching McFadden with a 10 foot pole?Afterall without a passing game, McFad will be running into a stacked box... and he has done nothing to speak of yet, so he won't be improving under these conditions. Even if Garcia takes over during the season, he will arrive to late to make McFad worth a roster spot. Right?Von

M Bush is the best RB on that team

Why the He is the best RB on that team.

 

[Pisgah Flying Pigmen]

I'm old, but I remember when training camp for non-rookies was mostly for training. He's gonna lose a few pounds in the coming weeks.

It's not like the guy is going to scramble for first downs if he were at 250.

 

[baconisgood]

So, those that are hating on Russell will not be touching McFadden with a 10 foot pole?Afterall without a passing game, McFad will be running into a stacked box... and he has done nothing to speak of yet, so he won't be improving under these conditions. Even if Garcia takes over during the season, he will arrive to late to make McFad worth a roster spot. Right?Von

Why would anyone think that? Running games aren't solely reliant on passing games. The Raiders have had junk at the QB + WR positions for two years now and rushed for 2086 total yards on 4.1 y/c as a team in 2007 with RB/FBs getting another 5-600 yards in receptions and in 2008 they ran for 1987 on yards on 4.3 y/c with another 500 yards in receptions. There will be limited TD opportunities of course with only 17 total TDs going to RBs those two years, but a 1200 yard 4 TD back is definitely worth a roster spot.

 

[Jason Wood]

This isn't a big deal, unless you already dislike Russell. Which a lot of people do.

Wow, I completely disagree here buddy.A quarterback is supposed to be the leader of his team in all ways. He's supposed to lead by example as well as be effective on the field. How a kid, who's the face of that franchise, can come off the losing seasons he's had in the last two years and be so nonchalant about his level of fitness is an ENORMOUS red flag for me.Being in peak physical condition absolutely is important to doing his job. You think a QB that has 20-30 pounds of fat around his belly is in the optimal condition to survive a blindside sack? You think having extra weight [the guy is already big] won't hurt his ability to avoid the pass rush or make a play when containment is broken?I think it shows a stunning lack of commitment. The best QBs are obsessive about winning. It drives them. Losing kills them to the point of obsession. If you were in his shoes, wouldn't you want to do everything in your power to improve? He can't control who they draft. He can't control who they sign. He can't control whether the coaches know their playbook from a comic book. But he can control how well he knows the playbook, how much he knows opposing defenses tendencies, how tight his footwork and throwing motion are, and yes, how physically fit he is to be able to best handle the rigors of an intensely physical job.

 

[Ookie Pringle]

This isn't a big deal, unless you already dislike Russell. Which a lot of people do.

Wow, I completely disagree here buddy.A quarterback is supposed to be the leader of his team in all ways. He's supposed to lead by example as well as be effective on the field. How a kid, who's the face of that franchise, can come off the losing seasons he's had in the last two years and be so nonchalant about his level of fitness is an ENORMOUS red flag for me.Being in peak physical condition absolutely is important to doing his job. You think a QB that has 20-30 pounds of fat around his belly is in the optimal condition to survive a blindside sack? You think having extra weight [the guy is already big] won't hurt his ability to avoid the pass rush or make a play when containment is broken?I think it shows a stunning lack of commitment. The best QBs are obsessive about winning. It drives them. Losing kills them to the point of obsession. If you were in his shoes, wouldn't you want to do everything in your power to improve? He can't control who they draft. He can't control who they sign. He can't control whether the coaches know their playbook from a comic book. But he can control how well he knows the playbook, how much he knows opposing defenses tendencies, how tight his footwork and throwing motion are, and yes, how physically fit he is to be able to best handle the rigors of an intensely physical job.

 

[JohnnyU]

So, those that are hating on Russell will not be touching McFadden with a 10 foot pole?Afterall without a passing game, McFad will be running into a stacked box... and he has done nothing to speak of yet, so he won't be improving under these conditions. Even if Garcia takes over during the season, he will arrive to late to make McFad worth a roster spot. Right?Von

M Bush is the best RB on that team

Why the He is the best RB on that team.

The wink was because most consider McFadden the best RB on their team. In other words, Bush is forgotten by most.

 

[JohnnyU]

I'm old, but I remember when training camp for non-rookies was mostly for training. He's gonna lose a few pounds in the coming weeks.It's not like the guy is going to scramble for first downs if he were at 250.

Culpepper used to scramble for first downs at 260.

 

[lod01]

Maybe he's out of shape becasue he's devoted himself to the film room. He's probably in there all day long studying defenses and how to attack them.

Man, what a disaster this clown is gonna be.

 

[T Bell]

Maybe he's out of shape becasue he's devoted himself to the film room. He's probably in there all day long studying defenses and how to attack them.

Is he going to sit on the defenses?

 

[Chase Stuart]

This isn't a big deal, unless you already dislike Russell. Which a lot of people do.

Wow, I completely disagree here buddy.A quarterback is supposed to be the leader of his team in all ways. He's supposed to lead by example as well as be effective on the field. How a kid, who's the face of that franchise, can come off the losing seasons he's had in the last two years and be so nonchalant about his level of fitness is an ENORMOUS red flag for me.

Being in peak physical condition absolutely is important to doing his job. You think a QB that has 20-30 pounds of fat around his belly is in the optimal condition to survive a blindside sack? You think having extra weight [the guy is already big] won't hurt his ability to avoid the pass rush or make a play when containment is broken?

I think it shows a stunning lack of commitment. The best QBs are obsessive about winning. It drives them. Losing kills them to the point of obsession. If you were in his shoes, wouldn't you want to do everything in your power to improve? He can't control who they draft. He can't control who they sign. He can't control whether the coaches know their playbook from a comic book. But he can control how well he knows the playbook, how much he knows opposing defenses tendencies, how tight his footwork and throwing motion are, and yes, how physically fit he is to be able to best handle the rigors of an intensely physical job.

I take it if you were a professional QB you wouldn't be riding motorcycles without a helmet, either. But doing so won't prevent you from winning the Super Bowl, which is the only thing that matters.Being in peak physical condition is certainly preferable to not being in peak physical condition. Just like not quitting on plays is preferable to quitting on plays, but it doesn't mean Randy Moss isn't a good receiver. If you want to claim Russell isn't perfect, you'll get no disagreement from anyone.

We're talking a few pounds overweight in July. It's not a big deal at all -- he will lose those ten pounds or whatever by September or October. Would I prefer my QB studying film 24/7 and coming in to training camp in the best shape of his life? Absolutely. But it's not like you can't succeed going the Russell route. He played well last year basically as a rookie, and I'm sure he'll be a bit better this year. If he turns into one of the better QBs in the league, no one will care about this story.

 

[Cookiemonster]

As long as he's a Raider, and a former #1 overall pick, and most of all a black QB, people will find fault with him.

 

[Jason Wood]

This isn't a big deal, unless you already dislike Russell. Which a lot of people do.

Wow, I completely disagree here buddy.A quarterback is supposed to be the leader of his team in all ways. He's supposed to lead by example as well as be effective on the field. How a kid, who's the face of that franchise, can come off the losing seasons he's had in the last two years and be so nonchalant about his level of fitness is an ENORMOUS red flag for me.

Being in peak physical condition absolutely is important to doing his job. You think a QB that has 20-30 pounds of fat around his belly is in the optimal condition to survive a blindside sack? You think having extra weight [the guy is already big] won't hurt his ability to avoid the pass rush or make a play when containment is broken?

I think it shows a stunning lack of commitment. The best QBs are obsessive about winning. It drives them. Losing kills them to the point of obsession. If you were in his shoes, wouldn't you want to do everything in your power to improve? He can't control who they draft. He can't control who they sign. He can't control whether the coaches know their playbook from a comic book. But he can control how well he knows the playbook, how much he knows opposing defenses tendencies, how tight his footwork and throwing motion are, and yes, how physically fit he is to be able to best handle the rigors of an intensely physical job.

I take it if you were a professional QB you wouldn't be riding motorcycles without a helmet, either. But doing so won't prevent you from winning the Super Bowl, which is the only thing that matters.Being in peak physical condition is certainly preferable to not being in peak physical condition. Just like not quitting on plays is preferable to quitting on plays, but it doesn't mean Randy Moss isn't a good receiver. If you want to claim Russell isn't perfect, you'll get no disagreement from anyone.

We're talking a few pounds overweight in July. It's not a big deal at all -- he will lose those ten pounds or whatever by September or October. Would I prefer my QB studying film 24/7 and coming in to training camp in the best shape of his life? Absolutely. But it's not like you can't succeed going the Russell route. He played well last year basically as a rookie, and I'm sure he'll be a bit better this year. If he turns into one of the better QBs in the league, no one will care about this story.

We're constantly trying to analyze players and their opportunity sets. That's ALWAYS a relative issue. Any one factor doesn't matter until it does. For example, Tom Brady has been bedding famous women for years, but he's a great QB so that's not held against him. Whereas Tony Romo struggles in the playoffs and his cavorting with Carrie Underwood and Jessica Simpson is considered to blame. Brett Favre was a hard drinking, pill popping country boy, but it wasn't a problem when he was winning 3 MVP awards. Whereas Jay Cutler is being painted by a lot of folks as immature and unfocused because he's been seen at clubs late at night in the offseason drunk.So of course the ultimate outcome on the field trumps all else. BUT, we're reacting to this SPECIFIC issue. ANY issue save for a season ending injury is, in and of itself, not something to overreact to. But all else being equal, having a young QB who hasn't played that well (in spite of your contention otherwise) on a horrible losing team with a perceived losing culture, making jokes about being fat AGAIN (remember last season) is a warning sign to me, and apparently quite a few others.

Does his being fat mean he can't have a good season? Of course not. But does it raise the risk that he lacks the drive and commitment to be a successful franchise passer? Of course it does.

 

[Phase of the Game]

This isn't a big deal, unless you already dislike Russell. Which a lot of people do.

Wow, I completely disagree here buddy.A quarterback is supposed to be the leader of his team in all ways. He's supposed to lead by example as well as be effective on the field. How a kid, who's the face of that franchise, can come off the losing seasons he's had in the last two years and be so nonchalant about his level of fitness is an ENORMOUS red flag for me.

Being in peak physical condition absolutely is important to doing his job. You think a QB that has 20-30 pounds of fat around his belly is in the optimal condition to survive a blindside sack? You think having extra weight [the guy is already big] won't hurt his ability to avoid the pass rush or make a play when containment is broken?

I think it shows a stunning lack of commitment. The best QBs are obsessive about winning. It drives them. Losing kills them to the point of obsession. If you were in his shoes, wouldn't you want to do everything in your power to improve? He can't control who they draft. He can't control who they sign. He can't control whether the coaches know their playbook from a comic book. But he can control how well he knows the playbook, how much he knows opposing defenses tendencies, how tight his footwork and throwing motion are, and yes, how physically fit he is to be able to best handle the rigors of an intensely physical job.

I take it if you were a professional QB you wouldn't be riding motorcycles without a helmet, either. But doing so won't prevent you from winning the Super Bowl, which is the only thing that matters.Being in peak physical condition is certainly preferable to not being in peak physical condition. Just like not quitting on plays is preferable to quitting on plays, but it doesn't mean Randy Moss isn't a good receiver. If you want to claim Russell isn't perfect, you'll get no disagreement from anyone.

We're talking a few pounds overweight in July. It's not a big deal at all -- he will lose those ten pounds or whatever by September or October. Would I prefer my QB studying film 24/7 and coming in to training camp in the best shape of his life? Absolutely. But it's not like you can't succeed going the Russell route. He played well last year basically as a rookie, and I'm sure he'll be a bit better this year. If he turns into one of the better QBs in the league, no one will care about this story.

We're constantly trying to analyze players and their opportunity sets. That's ALWAYS a relative issue. Any one factor doesn't matter until it does. For example, Tom Brady has been bedding famous women for years, but he's a great QB so that's not held against him. Whereas Tony Romo struggles in the playoffs and his cavorting with Carrie Underwood and Jessica Simpson is considered to blame. Brett Favre was a hard drinking, pill popping country boy, but it wasn't a problem when he was winning 3 MVP awards. Whereas Jay Cutler is being painted by a lot of folks as immature and unfocused because he's been seen at clubs late at night in the offseason drunk.So of course the ultimate outcome on the field trumps all else. BUT, we're reacting to this SPECIFIC issue. ANY issue save for a season ending injury is, in and of itself, not something to overreact to. But all else being equal, having a young QB who hasn't played that well (in spite of your contention otherwise) on a horrible losing team with a perceived losing culture, making jokes about being fat AGAIN (remember last season) is a warning sign to me, and apparently quite a few others.

Does his being fat mean he can't have a good season? Of course not. But does it raise the risk that he lacks the drive and commitment to be a successful franchise passer? Of course it does.

That seems to be the main point Chase is missing.

 

[Banger]

This isn't a big deal, unless you already dislike Russell. Which a lot of people do.

Wow, I completely disagree here buddy.A quarterback is supposed to be the leader of his team in all ways. He's supposed to lead by example as well as be effective on the field. How a kid, who's the face of that franchise, can come off the losing seasons he's had in the last two years and be so nonchalant about his level of fitness is an ENORMOUS red flag for me.

Being in peak physical condition absolutely is important to doing his job. You think a QB that has 20-30 pounds of fat around his belly is in the optimal condition to survive a blindside sack? You think having extra weight [the guy is already big] won't hurt his ability to avoid the pass rush or make a play when containment is broken?

I think it shows a stunning lack of commitment. The best QBs are obsessive about winning. It drives them. Losing kills them to the point of obsession. If you were in his shoes, wouldn't you want to do everything in your power to improve? He can't control who they draft. He can't control who they sign. He can't control whether the coaches know their playbook from a comic book. But he can control how well he knows the playbook, how much he knows opposing defenses tendencies, how tight his footwork and throwing motion are, and yes, how physically fit he is to be able to best handle the rigors of an intensely physical job.

I take it if you were a professional QB you wouldn't be riding motorcycles without a helmet, either. But doing so won't prevent you from winning the Super Bowl, which is the only thing that matters.Being in peak physical condition is certainly preferable to not being in peak physical condition. Just like not quitting on plays is preferable to quitting on plays, but it doesn't mean Randy Moss isn't a good receiver. If you want to claim Russell isn't perfect, you'll get no disagreement from anyone.

We're talking a few pounds overweight in July. It's not a big deal at all -- he will lose those ten pounds or whatever by September or October. Would I prefer my QB studying film 24/7 and coming in to training camp in the best shape of his life? Absolutely. But it's not like you can't succeed going the Russell route. He played well last year basically as a rookie, and I'm sure he'll be a bit better this year. If he turns into one of the better QBs in the league, no one will care about this story.

If this were an isolated incident I'd agree with you and I wouldn't have even posted in the thread but in my mind this is kind of a make or break year for him. He needs to show improvement if he wants to be cemented in the teams future going forward. With that in mind he should be doing everything he can to show the team that's he's willing to do what it takes to bring this team to the next level. His message is not a good one.With the team they have, the talent at wr, etc. it's not going to be easy to succeed even if he came in knowing everything there is to know about the playbook, in chiselled physical condition and hundreds of hours of film on his opponents under his belt. The disturbing thing to me is the pattern and the fact that he was criticized for his weight last year. This could be much ado about nothing but in the VAST majority of cases to succeed in the NFL you have to do everything possible to become among the best and it doesn't seem like he's got the will.

 

[finito]

As long as he's a Raider, and a former #1 overall pick, and most of all a black QB, people will find fault with him.

Seriously? I mean come on.

 

[Banger]

As long as he's a Raider, and a former #1 overall pick, and most of all a black QB, people will find fault with him.

I was just as critical of Leinart last year for many of the same reasons.

 

[Cookiemonster]

He doesn't even have the team or the management to succeed, yet we're ready to bury him over his waistline? Let's talk about the parade of promising QBs that have come in since Gruden/Gannon were in town, only to be busted and left for dead after spending a season or two in Oakland. How's Brooks doing? Tui and Walter looked decent before spending time behind one of the worst O-lines I've ever seen in professional football. Pep, McCown, Collins (the only one still alive)... amazed they never gave Jeff George another opportunity when they brought Art Shell back. But Russell's problems all stem from being 270 and not 260? If the Raiders drafted me, I'd probably be overweight too due to battling depression.

 

[travdogg]

People keep bringing up the way Russell ended the season last year. Are we sure Russell is really all that responsible for that stretch. I think an argument could be made for the following:

1. They played NE(who had no pass defense by year's end) Houston(who was a below average pass defense) and Tampa(who had quit about a month earlier)

2. Darren McFadden had started to become a key weapon in the passing game. He had 109 receiving yards between the NE and Houston games.

3. Walker was out(he should seriously just retire) and Curry was benched/out. That promoted Higgins and Schilens to the starting lineup, and those guys were clearly upgrades for the Raiders.

I'm not writing Russell or the Raiders passing game by any means. I'm not sure I'd roster Russell in anything other than a dynasty league or a redraft league with at least 20 player rosters. I also think the Raiders would be a FAR better team with Garcia starting(its kind sad that he's not a starter somewhere, the guy is the most underrated QB in the NFL) but they are committed to Russell...for now.

I'd have no issues with owning McFadden or Miller as starters or Schilens as a bench guy.

 

[bcr8f]

As long as he's a Raider, and a former #1 overall pick, and most of all a black QB, people will find fault with him.

A black QB? Come on man.

 

[Dr. Octopus]

Does anyone really know just how over weight he really is or are we just basing it off an off-hand remark by Russell himself, who may have said it a little tongue in cheek based on last offseason's headlines?

 

[Cookiemonster]

As long as he's a Raider, and a former #1 overall pick, and most of all a black QB, people will find fault with him.

Seriously? I mean come on.

You don't think McNabb has been given much more than his fair share of grief during his tenure? Campbell's TEAM falls apart during the 2nd half of '08 and everybody wants him replaced. I just see several black QBs getting a much shorter leash than they deserve. I'm not saying we're all racist, and many times we just keep hearing the same things over and over and we start regurgitating it without considering where we're hearing it from. I just thought that for the WRs he had at his disposal - Walker, Curry and others lacking in skill to be starting NFL WRs - and the protection he was given, and the antique philosophy that Davis forces on his coaches, for all the obstacles to overcome I thought Russell looked OK. I'm not arguing that he will be good, or that he will bust. The odds are against him already just by being in Oakland but after ONE season, and one in which he finished pretty decent, everybody is quick to pile on because HE HIMSELF is not satisfied with his weight. Nobody is saying #### about Cutler's double chin.

 

[Jason Wood]

As long as he's a Raider, and a former #1 overall pick, and most of all a black QB, people will find fault with him.

Seriously? I mean come on.

You don't think McNabb has been given much more than his fair share of grief during his tenure? Campbell's TEAM falls apart during the 2nd half of '08 and everybody wants him replaced. I just see several black QBs getting a much shorter leash than they deserve. I'm not saying we're all racist, and many times we just keep hearing the same things over and over and we start regurgitating it without considering where we're hearing it from. I just thought that for the WRs he had at his disposal - Walker, Curry and others lacking in skill to be starting NFL WRs - and the protection he was given, and the antique philosophy that Davis forces on his coaches, for all the obstacles to overcome I thought Russell looked OK. I'm not arguing that he will be good, or that he will bust. The odds are against him already just by being in Oakland but after ONE season, and one in which he finished pretty decent, everybody is quick to pile on because HE HIMSELF is not satisfied with his weight. Nobody is saying #### about Cutler's double chin.

Hey Cookie,Quit it with the racial thing. This board has been around a long time and not a single person that's contributed to this thread, pro or anti Russell, has done anything to warrant the race card being brought in. You're entitled to your own views on the world, but let's save the indignation for when it's warranted.

 

[Dr. Octopus]

People keep bringing up the way Russell ended the season last year. Are we sure Russell is really all that responsible for that stretch. I think an argument could be made for the following:

1. They played NE(who had no pass defense by year's end) Houston(who was a below average pass defense) and Tampa(who had quit about a month earlier)

2. Darren McFadden had started to become a key weapon in the passing game. He had 109 receiving yards between the NE and Houston games.

3. Walker was out(he should seriously just retire) and Curry was benched/out. That promoted Higgins and Schilens to the starting lineup, and those guys were clearly upgrades for the Raiders.

I'm not writing Russell or the Raiders passing game by any means. I'm not sure I'd roster Russell in anything other than a dynasty league or a redraft league with at least 20 player rosters. I also think the Raiders would be a FAR better team with Garcia starting(its kind sad that he's not a starter somewhere, the guy is the most underrated QB in the NFL) but they are committed to Russell...for now.

I'd have no issues with owning McFadden or Miller as starters or Schilens as a bench guy.

Won't these factors still exist this season?

 

[Chase Stuart]

If this were an isolated incident I'd agree with you and I wouldn't have even posted in the thread but in my mind this is kind of a make or break year for him.

Why is this a make or break year for him? He turns 24 next week. I agree that this is an important year, but make or break is too strong. He could have a down year and still turn into a very good QB. I think people are usually too quick to judge QBs, and Russell is a good example of that.

 

[travdogg]

People keep bringing up the way Russell ended the season last year. Are we sure Russell is really all that responsible for that stretch. I think an argument could be made for the following:

1. They played NE(who had no pass defense by year's end) Houston(who was a below average pass defense) and Tampa(who had quit about a month earlier)

2. Darren McFadden had started to become a key weapon in the passing game. He had 109 receiving yards between the NE and Houston games.

3. Walker was out(he should seriously just retire) and Curry was benched/out. That promoted Higgins and Schilens to the starting lineup, and those guys were clearly upgrades for the Raiders.

I'm not writing Russell or the Raiders passing game by any means. I'm not sure I'd roster Russell in anything other than a dynasty league or a redraft league with at least 20 player rosters. I also think the Raiders would be a FAR better team with Garcia starting(its kind sad that he's not a starter somewhere, the guy is the most underrated QB in the NFL) but they are committed to Russell...for now.

I'd have no issues with owning McFadden or Miller as starters or Schilens as a bench guy.

Won't these factors still exist this season?

Yes they will. The point I was getting at is that I think the Oakland offense improved at the end of last season, I'm not sure Russell really did. I have a gut feeling that guys like McFadden and maybe Schilens could really breakout if Garcia was behind center.

 

[Banger]

If this were an isolated incident I'd agree with you and I wouldn't have even posted in the thread but in my mind this is kind of a make or break year for him.

Why is this a make or break year for him? He turns 24 next week. I agree that this is an important year, but make or break is too strong. He could have a down year and still turn into a very good QB. I think people are usually too quick to judge QBs, and Russell is a good example of that.

My point on the make or break is that they aren't going to keep him in there indefinitely just because he has a high contract. They will do it for a couple years, this is year 3, and he needs to take a step forward because if he flatlines and does the same as last year how could you continue to sell him as your franchise QB for the future? They would likely bring someone in and it could end up like the Leinart/VY situations where they are backups behind grizzled vets waiting for an injury to reprove themselves. Possession is 9/10's and while you possess the spot you have to perform because once you lose the spot you may not get another chance for a long time.....I agree that people are too quick to judge QB's but it's all about return on investment and marketing. It's hard to draft a guy #1, have him on the cover of SI, pay him $20 mill guaranteed and have him hold a clipboard for 2-3 years until he's ready. The salaries often force them into roles before they are necessarily ready, it's not the right thing but it's reality.

 

[massraider]

People keep bringing up the way Russell ended the season last year. Are we sure Russell is really all that responsible for that stretch. I think an argument could be made for the following:

1. They played NE(who had no pass defense by year's end) Houston(who was a below average pass defense) and Tampa(who had quit about a month earlier)

2. Darren McFadden had started to become a key weapon in the passing game. He had 109 receiving yards between the NE and Houston games.

3. Walker was out(he should seriously just retire) and Curry was benched/out. That promoted Higgins and Schilens to the starting lineup, and those guys were clearly upgrades for the Raiders.

I'm not writing Russell or the Raiders passing game by any means. I'm not sure I'd roster Russell in anything other than a dynasty league or a redraft league with at least 20 player rosters. I also think the Raiders would be a FAR better team with Garcia starting(its kind sad that he's not a starter somewhere, the guy is the most underrated QB in the NFL) but they are committed to Russell...for now.

I'd have no issues with owning McFadden or Miller as starters or Schilens as a bench guy.

Won't these factors still exist this season?

Yes they will. The point I was getting at is that I think the Oakland offense improved at the end of last season, I'm not sure Russell really did. I have a gut feeling that guys like McFadden and maybe Schilens could really breakout if Garcia was behind center.

Once Curry and Walker were out, and WR who got open and caught the ball, yeah, the Raiders improved. Makes me wonder what he would have done the first half of the year with more than one target (Miller).The guy came out as a junior, and it's make or break? His number improved dramatically over the course of the year, the ease with which people are writing him off, and the impatience, is puzzling to me.

Regarding the weight, everyone called him fat last year, I didn't see him sucking any wind, and his mobility was great.

Rusell needs to improve accuracy, and avoid fumbles, that'll mean more tan having Brady Quinn abs.

BTW, is this make or break for Quinn this year? I think I missed those threads.

 

[bcr8f]

People keep bringing up the way Russell ended the season last year. Are we sure Russell is really all that responsible for that stretch. I think an argument could be made for the following:

1. They played NE(who had no pass defense by year's end) Houston(who was a below average pass defense) and Tampa(who had quit about a month earlier)

2. Darren McFadden had started to become a key weapon in the passing game. He had 109 receiving yards between the NE and Houston games.

3. Walker was out(he should seriously just retire) and Curry was benched/out. That promoted Higgins and Schilens to the starting lineup, and those guys were clearly upgrades for the Raiders.

I'm not writing Russell or the Raiders passing game by any means. I'm not sure I'd roster Russell in anything other than a dynasty league or a redraft league with at least 20 player rosters. I also think the Raiders would be a FAR better team with Garcia starting(its kind sad that he's not a starter somewhere, the guy is the most underrated QB in the NFL) but they are committed to Russell...for now.

I'd have no issues with owning McFadden or Miller as starters or Schilens as a bench guy.

Won't these factors still exist this season?

Yes they will. The point I was getting at is that I think the Oakland offense improved at the end of last season, I'm not sure Russell really did. I have a gut feeling that guys like McFadden and maybe Schilens could really breakout if Garcia was behind center.

Once Curry and Walker were out, and WR who got open and caught the ball, yeah, the Raiders improved. Makes me wonder what he would have done the first half of the year with more than one target (Miller).The guy came out as a junior, and it's make or break? His number improved dramatically over the course of the year, the ease with which people are writing him off, and the impatience, is puzzling to me.

Regarding the weight, everyone called him fat last year, I didn't see him sucking any wind, and his mobility was great.

Rusell needs to improve accuracy, and avoid fumbles, that'll mean more tan having Brady Quinn abs.

BTW, is this make or break for Quinn this year? I think I missed those threads.

Quinn hasn't started a whole year.

 

[massraider]

People keep bringing up the way Russell ended the season last year. Are we sure Russell is really all that responsible for that stretch. I think an argument could be made for the following:

1. They played NE(who had no pass defense by year's end) Houston(who was a below average pass defense) and Tampa(who had quit about a month earlier)

2. Darren McFadden had started to become a key weapon in the passing game. He had 109 receiving yards between the NE and Houston games.

3. Walker was out(he should seriously just retire) and Curry was benched/out. That promoted Higgins and Schilens to the starting lineup, and those guys were clearly upgrades for the Raiders.

I'm not writing Russell or the Raiders passing game by any means. I'm not sure I'd roster Russell in anything other than a dynasty league or a redraft league with at least 20 player rosters. I also think the Raiders would be a FAR better team with Garcia starting(its kind sad that he's not a starter somewhere, the guy is the most underrated QB in the NFL) but they are committed to Russell...for now.

I'd have no issues with owning McFadden or Miller as starters or Schilens as a bench guy.

Won't these factors still exist this season?

Yes they will. The point I was getting at is that I think the Oakland offense improved at the end of last season, I'm not sure Russell really did. I have a gut feeling that guys like McFadden and maybe Schilens could really breakout if Garcia was behind center.

Once Curry and Walker were out, and WR who got open and caught the ball, yeah, the Raiders improved. Makes me wonder what he would have done the first half of the year with more than one target (Miller).The guy came out as a junior, and it's make or break? His number improved dramatically over the course of the year, the ease with which people are writing him off, and the impatience, is puzzling to me.

Regarding the weight, everyone called him fat last year, I didn't see him sucking any wind, and his mobility was great.

Rusell needs to improve accuracy, and avoid fumbles, that'll mean more tan having Brady Quinn abs.

BTW, is this make or break for Quinn this year? I think I missed those threads.

Quinn hasn't started a whole year.

Ah, but didn't Quinn play one more year in school? Wasn't he the more polished prospect, with all that pro coaching he got in college? Didn't he have training camp his rookie year? Is the 2nd year starting make or break for 1st round QBs now?

Just seems a bit early to throw dirt on Russell's grave, IMO.

 

[TheWheel]

WTF is up with blaming the entire teams troubles on a QB? If the defense sucks (27th in the league last year), how is the offense supposed to have a balanced attack? Also, a teams running game is just as important to a teams passing offense (if either is ineffective, the other becomes easier to defend). The teams that win consistently are consistent at every facet of the game. It's easy to blame Russell but where is all the criticism of his terrible offensive line, the teams horrible FO, etc, etc. Honestly, if you guys want to make any sense in a real life football situation, you need to stop thinking fantasy football. His offensive line IS HORRIBLE. You could put Peyton Manning behind that line and he wouldn't do much better. You are looking at skill positions and seeing a little potential and then expect Russell to make them superstars. When the Raiders o-line and defense shows some consistency then you can justify criticism for Russell in terms of his on the field problems.

Concerning his weight, he isn't on the field to run. He is on the field to pass. His weight doesn't matter to pass. He may not have the best work ethic, but would it really matter? He has had a different coaching staff each year, pretty much undermining any work he has done anyway.

 

[Dr. Octopus]

People keep bringing up the way Russell ended the season last year. Are we sure Russell is really all that responsible for that stretch. I think an argument could be made for the following:

1. They played NE(who had no pass defense by year's end) Houston(who was a below average pass defense) and Tampa(who had quit about a month earlier)

2. Darren McFadden had started to become a key weapon in the passing game. He had 109 receiving yards between the NE and Houston games.

3. Walker was out(he should seriously just retire) and Curry was benched/out. That promoted Higgins and Schilens to the starting lineup, and those guys were clearly upgrades for the Raiders.

I'm not writing Russell or the Raiders passing game by any means. I'm not sure I'd roster Russell in anything other than a dynasty league or a redraft league with at least 20 player rosters. I also think the Raiders would be a FAR better team with Garcia starting(its kind sad that he's not a starter somewhere, the guy is the most underrated QB in the NFL) but they are committed to Russell...for now.

I'd have no issues with owning McFadden or Miller as starters or Schilens as a bench guy.

Won't these factors still exist this season?

Yes they will. The point I was getting at is that I think the Oakland offense improved at the end of last season, I'm not sure Russell really did. I have a gut feeling that guys like McFadden and maybe Schilens could really breakout if Garcia was behind center.

I'm not sure I understand. It seems the QB still had to get those players the ball in order for them to contibute. I like Shilens and JLH but its not like they were stud players that would make any QB look good.

 

[DA RAIDERS]

If Al Davis was smart he'd leave a sack of White Castles in the end zone.

 

[Ray_T]

I've heard of professional boxers that balloon up over 50-60 pounds between fights. They make it back, no big deal. Most players (especially RBs) lose weight during the season anyways. The only concern I would have is if he's still doing it in 2 or 3 more years. He's still young, and his metabolism hasn't slowed down much yet, so if he doesn't get it in check in the next couple years, he'll end up being FAT by 30 years old. Not that I care if a QB is a little heavy, but as most of us aging, sedentary Americans can attest to, carrying an extra 30 pounds over the years wears a little more on EVERYTHING. Back, ankles, feet/toes, knees. You feel it everywhere after a while.

it can be done, but as a former boxer I can tell you that when you have to drop weight in a hurry, you will lose a lot of your strength & power.To do it right you need significant time. I'm sure the 2 a day work outs will take care of 10-15 lbs in a hurry, but after that the pounds dont come off all that fast.so depending on how far out of shape the guy is.... he may not be in game shape by the start of the year.

 

[Bri]

This isn't a big deal, unless you already dislike Russell. Which a lot of people do.

So if you like him, the fact that he's reporting to camp out of shape in his third season after having been the top pick in the draft means nothing?

I don't care what shape he's in as long as he plays well. You don't need a six pack to play quarterback. If he plays quarterback well, who cares what he weighs?

I love how work ethic and success are suddenly mutually exclusive when Chase has a mancrush on a player. What if he's got a keg instead of a six pack?

Russell is a very unique player. What's his normal weight 290? 280?Comparing him to others isn't going to wind up too reasonable.Hefty Lefty and Daunte have played well after reporting heavy. IIRC McNair too, maybe even the summer before they made the Supe.Big fat slob is one thing, this doesn't seem it. I'd be more concerned about his arm, head, and footwork.I'm sure a whole 'nother argument could be made that fat guys can take a hit better or somesuch. I remember some of that jabber with ironhead and bam morris. It's all meaningless and seems to be an individual quality that is either good or bad for each individual.

 

[T Bell]

This isn't a big deal, unless you already dislike Russell. Which a lot of people do.

So if you like him, the fact that he's reporting to camp out of shape in his third season after having been the top pick in the draft means nothing?

I don't care what shape he's in as long as he plays well. You don't need a six pack to play quarterback. If he plays quarterback well, who cares what he weighs?

I love how work ethic and success are suddenly mutually exclusive when Chase has a mancrush on a player. What if he's got a keg instead of a six pack?

Russell is a very unique player. What's his normal weight 290? 280?Comparing him to others isn't going to wind up too reasonable.Hefty Lefty and Daunte have played well after reporting heavy. IIRC McNair too, maybe even the summer before they made the Supe.Big fat slob is one thing, this doesn't seem it. I'd be more concerned about his arm, head, and footwork.I'm sure a whole 'nother argument could be made that fat guys can take a hit better or somesuch. I remember some of that jabber with ironhead and bam morris. It's all meaningless and seems to be an individual quality that is either good or bad for each individual.

He's going to get flagged for a lot of false starts due to head bobs attributable to the jiggling neck fat.

 

[Phase of the Game]

This isn't a big deal, unless you already dislike Russell. Which a lot of people do.

So if you like him, the fact that he's reporting to camp out of shape in his third season after having been the top pick in the draft means nothing?

I don't care what shape he's in as long as he plays well. You don't need a six pack to play quarterback. If he plays quarterback well, who cares what he weighs?

I love how work ethic and success are suddenly mutually exclusive when Chase has a mancrush on a player. What if he's got a keg instead of a six pack?

Russell is a very unique player. What's his normal weight 290? 280?Comparing him to others isn't going to wind up too reasonable.

Hefty Lefty and Daunte have played well after reporting heavy. IIRC McNair too, maybe even the summer before they made the Supe.

Big fat slob is one thing, this doesn't seem it. I'd be more concerned about his arm, head, and footwork.

I'm sure a whole 'nother argument could be made that fat guys can take a hit better or somesuch. I remember some of that jabber with ironhead and bam morris. It's all meaningless and seems to be an individual quality that is either good or bad for each individual.

Are you nuts? Please tell us what Hefty Lefty has done in the NFL. TIA

 

[JohnnyU]

This isn't a big deal, unless you already dislike Russell. Which a lot of people do.

Wow, I completely disagree here buddy.A quarterback is supposed to be the leader of his team in all ways. He's supposed to lead by example as well as be effective on the field. How a kid, who's the face of that franchise, can come off the losing seasons he's had in the last two years and be so nonchalant about his level of fitness is an ENORMOUS red flag for me.

Being in peak physical condition absolutely is important to doing his job. You think a QB that has 20-30 pounds of fat around his belly is in the optimal condition to survive a blindside sack? You think having extra weight [the guy is already big] won't hurt his ability to avoid the pass rush or make a play when containment is broken?

I think it shows a stunning lack of commitment. The best QBs are obsessive about winning. It drives them. Losing kills them to the point of obsession. If you were in his shoes, wouldn't you want to do everything in your power to improve? He can't control who they draft. He can't control who they sign. He can't control whether the coaches know their playbook from a comic book. But he can control how well he knows the playbook, how much he knows opposing defenses tendencies, how tight his footwork and throwing motion are, and yes, how physically fit he is to be able to best handle the rigors of an intensely physical job.

I take it if you were a professional QB you wouldn't be riding motorcycles without a helmet, either. But doing so won't prevent you from winning the Super Bowl, which is the only thing that matters.Being in peak physical condition is certainly preferable to not being in peak physical condition. Just like not quitting on plays is preferable to quitting on plays, but it doesn't mean Randy Moss isn't a good receiver. If you want to claim Russell isn't perfect, you'll get no disagreement from anyone.

We're talking a few pounds overweight in July. It's not a big deal at all -- he will lose those ten pounds or whatever by September or October. Would I prefer my QB studying film 24/7 and coming in to training camp in the best shape of his life? Absolutely. But it's not like you can't succeed going the Russell route. He played well last year basically as a rookie, and I'm sure he'll be a bit better this year. If he turns into one of the better QBs in the league, no one will care about this story.

JaMarcus Russell isn't good enough to be able to go the Russell route and succeed.

 

[Bri]

Are you nuts? Please tell us what Hefty Lefty has done in the NFL. TIA

Nothing in regular season. Eli doesn't miss much of any time. I remember one famous running play for him, but that's about it.He rocked in preseason.IIRC it was his stellar preseason play that forced the Gmen to cut Rob Johnson and end his career(pretty much).BTW I'd bet the Wildcat coaches and possible Vick suitors have at least discussed how he played in college. There's some good stories there.

 

[Traders2001]

Russel would be totally wothless even if he lost 30 pounds.

He just is nt a good QB , a waste of a first round pick...

 

[Gopher State]

Quarterback JaMarcus Russell reported to training camp overweight, further backing the critics who think he's not exactly committed to excellence. In fact, free-agent aquisition Jeff Garcia might have a better chance to see some time under center than you think. Cable was non-committal when asked about the quarterback situation earlier this week, and Russell showing up to camp heavy can't help his image.

Source NFL.com

 

[Sonny Lubick Blowup Doll]

This thread cracks me up.

 

[DA RAIDERS]

This thread cracks me up.

:finger:

 

[Sonny Lubick Blowup Doll]

This thread cracks me up.

:finger:

Actually bud, it's Chase, not your boy JaMarcus. ...how a professional athlete showing up to work fat, and admitting as much, won't/doesn't matter.

 

[duaneok66]

This thread cracks me up.

agreed . . . how does a guy (that has stunk his entire NFL career) get so many backers??Russell is stealing money . . . all he is missing is the mask . . .

 

[Sonny Lubick Blowup Doll]

This thread cracks me up.

agreed . . . how does a guy (that has stunk his entire NFL career) get so many backers??Russell is stealing money . . . all he is missing is the mask . . .

 

[Bojang0301]

I can't give this guy away in a start 2 QB league where I'm rebuilding a roster I inherited. What a joke of a talent this guy is. He has one tool... throw it deep. That's worked out well for other guys that can throw it a mile too. Just go ask Jeff George and Ryan Leaf. It seems to me that ya these guys do come around in every generation and every generation they are catered and unchallenged until it's too late for them to grow up and work hard.

 

[Phase of the Game]

If this were an isolated incident I'd agree with you and I wouldn't have even posted in the thread but in my mind this is kind of a make or break year for him.

Why is this a make or break year for him? He turns 24 next week. I agree that this is an important year, but make or break is too strong. He could have a down year and still turn into a very good QB. I think people are usually too quick to judge QBs, and Russell is a good example of that.

 

[Phase of the Game]

This isn't a big deal, unless you already dislike Russell. Which a lot of people do.

Wow, I completely disagree here buddy.A quarterback is supposed to be the leader of his team in all ways. He's supposed to lead by example as well as be effective on the field. How a kid, who's the face of that franchise, can come off the losing seasons he's had in the last two years and be so nonchalant about his level of fitness is an ENORMOUS red flag for me.Being in peak physical condition absolutely is important to doing his job. You think a QB that has 20-30 pounds of fat around his belly is in the optimal condition to survive a blindside sack? You think having extra weight [the guy is already big] won't hurt his ability to avoid the pass rush or make a play when containment is broken?I think it shows a stunning lack of commitment. The best QBs are obsessive about winning. It drives them. Losing kills them to the point of obsession. If you were in his shoes, wouldn't you want to do everything in your power to improve? He can't control who they draft. He can't control who they sign. He can't control whether the coaches know their playbook from a comic book. But he can control how well he knows the playbook, how much he knows opposing defenses tendencies, how tight his footwork and throwing motion are, and yes, how physically fit he is to be able to best handle the rigors of an intensely physical job.