Jeremy Maclin will outproduce DeSean Jackson (1 Viewer)

[Carl Eller's Dead Liver]

Let’s look at the facts:

Fact 1: The Eagles offense is going through a small metamorphosis. They are still going to run West Coast, but a different style of West Coast than they did because of different QB skill sets.

Fact 2: A West Coast offense run by Donavan McNabb is a vertical passing game. McNabb is a fantastic deep ball QB, but is average in short/middle accuracy routes.

Fact 3: A West Coast offense run by Kevin Kolb is going to be a more traditional dink and dunk offense based on short routes, quick reads, and accurate passes.

Fact 4: DeSean Jackson is one of the best deep route running WR’s in the game. He is a BIG play guy. Most of his TD’s in 2008 and 2009 were a direct result of a deep ball thrown by McNabb. Jackson’s body is more suited to hold up on deep fly routes rather than over the middle, heavy traffic routes. His body will never be more than what it is do his small frame. Adding weight is not possible. A big play WR, not a possession WR.

Fact 5: Jeremy Maclin’s production in college and in the pros so far has been based on short to intermediate routes, getting open quickly, and making great moves after the catch. Maclin added 10 lbs of muscle to his frame this off season, which might further help his him become a great possession WR.

Opinion #1: Maclin will out produce Jackson in PPR leagues starting this season. Maclin is more suited to a traditional West Coast offense and will catch 80-90 passes this season. 80 catches, 1200 yards, 9 TD’s. Low end fantasy #1 WR numbers.

Opinion #2: Jackson will still be productive, but not as productive as he was with McNabb. 55 receptions, 1000 yards, 6 TD’s. Still good numbers.

Disclaimer: I’d also like to say that I own Maclin and not Jackson in a dynasty league, so maybe I am over thinking things a bit. I acknowledge this conflict in interest, but I also think I make several great points.

Counter argument fact: In weeks 2 and 3 of 2009 (Kolb starting), DeSean still had great numbers. Week 2: 4 receptions, 101 yards, 1 TD; Week 3: 6 receptions, 149 yards, 1 TD. Maclin was not starting at this point and they didn’t change their play book at this point either.

 

[Dr. Octopus]

Disclaimer: I’d also like to say that I own Maclin and not Jackson in a dynasty league, so maybe I am over thinking things a bit. .

This should have been mentioned under "Facts". You did make some good points but I do think with Jackson's run after the catch abilities he's very well suited to be a big part of a WCO as well, and it's not like Kolb is never going to throw deep balls either.The "inside" routes in a WCO are not the type that gets a WR punished - they are more quick slants that allows the WR to take the ball in stride and keep going. Jackson will still be lined up with CBs he's not going to get smashed by LBers.Maclin should still be very effective as well - but he'll still be fighting for targets with Celek, McCoy and Avant (a very under-rated slot reciver). Jackson is the second most dangerous player in the league with the ball in his hands - he'll still obviously be a big part of this offense.I don't own either player by the way.

 

[DoubleG]

The presumption that DJax is not a "dink and dunk" type guy is simply off (as is the presumption that most of his TDs were deep balls). He was top 10 in YAC/reception last year - which means that many of his big plays were the result of his ability to shake defenders after catching the ball short and turning it into a big gain.

Some would argue that Kolb's accuracy will benefit DJax as much as Maclin, as he will hit him in stride more often, giving him the opportunity to use his RAC-abilities (which some have suggested are 2nd only to CJ) to break big plays. Those YAC skills are exactly why he is such a dangerous threat as a return man as well.

As a comparison, the Carolina Panthers have been a running team, with a traditional West coast offense - and Steve Smith has done quite well in a role similar to what DJax's will likely look like. IMHO, Smith is the perfect comparable to Jackson - a small WR whose game is predicated on speed and YAC. Smith has abviously lead the Panthers in receiving for most of the recent past (regardless as to who was QB) - so I don't think a regression for DeSean Jackson and the ascendance of Maclin is a given by any means. Is it possible? Sure. Likely? Let's just say, while Maclin is undoubtedly improving his game, Desean is as well.

I think Jackson will lead the Eagle WRs in receiving yards and TDs again this season.

 

[bicycle_seat_sniffer]

good well thought out post.

I could see their production being very similar. With Kolb under helm know we have no idea who he will favor, could be celek, could be malcin

 

[Multiple Scores]

I could see this happening in a PPR. I don't own either. In my league it is NO PPR and we get return points, Jackson is a stud in that format.

 

[lynx4ben]

I don't feel like looking it up now but I believe that some of Desean's best games last year were with Kolb. It was also rumored that he was the player behind the rumblings that preferred Kolb to McNabb and thought it was time to move on.

I still do agree with your points and think their stats will be closer than what people expect. Maclin's production slightly higher than expected and Jackson's slightly lower.

 

[Carl Eller's Dead Liver]

I don't feel like looking it up now but I believe that some of Desean's best games last year were with Kolb. It was also rumored that he was the player behind the rumblings that preferred Kolb to McNabb and thought it was time to move on. I still do agree with your points and think their stats will be closer than what people expect. Maclin's production slightly higher than expected and Jackson's slightly lower.

Yes, I did include DeSean's stats in weeks 2 & 3 when Kolb was the starter. They were very good! I do think Andy Reid will change the playbook quite a bit though to more suit Kolb's skillset.

 

[H.K.]

Let’s look at the facts:

...

In weeks 2 and 3 of 2009 (Kolb starting), DeSean still had great numbers. Week 2: 4 receptions, 101 yards, 1 TD; Week 3: 6 receptions, 149 yards, 1 TD. Maclin was not starting at this point and they didn’t change their play book at this point either.

He started weeks 2 & 3. According to CBS game logs, Maclin started 13 of 16 games last season. He did not start Week 1, nor Weeks 13 or 15 (DNP).

The target distribution in Philly has been broken down a ton this off season. Kolb just doesn't throw to Maclin because he is the number 4 option in the passing game. Jackson, Celek, and the RB's will be the people in the offense that are getting the activity with Kolb at QB, not Maclin.

 

[sholditch]

Let’s look at the facts:

Fact 1: The Eagles offense is going through a small metamorphosis. They are still going to run West Coast, but a different style of West Coast than they did because of different QB skill sets.

Fact 2: A West Coast offense run by Donavan McNabb is a vertical passing game. McNabb is a fantastic deep ball QB, but is average in short/middle accuracy routes.

Fact 3: A West Coast offense run by Kevin Kolb is going to be a more traditional dink and dunk offense based on short routes, quick reads, and accurate passes.

Fact 4: DeSean Jackson is one of the best deep route running WR’s in the game. He is a BIG play guy. Most of his TD’s in 2008 and 2009 were a direct result of a deep ball thrown by McNabb. Jackson’s body is more suited to hold up on deep fly routes rather than over the middle, heavy traffic routes. His body will never be more than what it is do his small frame. Adding weight is not possible. A big play WR, not a possession WR.

Fact 5: Jeremy Maclin’s production in college and in the pros so far has been based on short to intermediate routes, getting open quickly, and making great moves after the catch. Maclin added 10 lbs of muscle to his frame this off season, which might further help his him become a great possession WR.

Opinion #1: Maclin will out produce Jackson in PPR leagues starting this season. Maclin is more suited to a traditional West Coast offense and will catch 80-90 passes this season. 80 catches, 1200 yards, 9 TD’s. Low end fantasy #1 WR numbers.

Opinion #2: Jackson will still be productive, but not as productive as he was with McNabb. 55 receptions, 1000 yards, 6 TD’s. Still good numbers.

Disclaimer: I’d also like to say that I own Maclin and not Jackson in a dynasty league, so maybe I am over thinking things a bit. I acknowledge this conflict in interest, but I also think I make several great points.

Counter argument fact: In weeks 2 and 3 of 2009 (Kolb starting), DeSean still had great numbers. Week 2: 4 receptions, 101 yards, 1 TD; Week 3: 6 receptions, 149 yards, 1 TD. Maclin was not starting at this point and they didn’t change their play book at this point either.

all opinions

 

[bicycle_seat_sniffer]

Let’s look at the facts:

...

In weeks 2 and 3 of 2009 (Kolb starting), DeSean still had great numbers. Week 2: 4 receptions, 101 yards, 1 TD; Week 3: 6 receptions, 149 yards, 1 TD. Maclin was not starting at this point and they didn’t change their play book at this point either.

He started weeks 2 & 3. According to CBS game logs, Maclin started 13 of 16 games last season. He did not start Week 1, nor Weeks 13 or 15 (DNP).

The target distribution in Philly has been broken down a ton this off season. Kolb just doesn't throw to Maclin because he is the number 4 option in the passing game. Jackson, Celek, and the RB's will be the people in the offense that are getting the activity with Kolb at QB, not Maclin.

 

[unckeyherb]

This result wouldn't necessarily surprise me. However, as some have already stated, I think a lot of peeople assume DJax is only a 'big play' guy from all of his bomb TDs from McNabb. Frankly, he is IMHO one of the best open field players in the game today and combining his speed and quickness with a QB that can hit him in stride on a slant route, makes me a very excited Eagles fan.

I see this being the year where he gets closer to 80-90 receptions, based on the type of offense I see them running; somewhere between his rookie year and last year in Y/R (say 15.5) totaling out around 1250-1400 yards. I think his TD's hover around where they were last year, maybe take a dip...say 7 TDs.

If Maclin outproduces 90/1400/7 or even 80/1250/7 I'd be happier than a pig in shizz. Honestly, I don't see it happening, but there are so many ? surrounding this offense this year, I truly don't know what to think.

 

[H.K.]

Let’s look at the facts:

...

In weeks 2 and 3 of 2009 (Kolb starting), DeSean still had great numbers. Week 2: 4 receptions, 101 yards, 1 TD; Week 3: 6 receptions, 149 yards, 1 TD. Maclin was not starting at this point and they didn’t change their play book at this point either.

He started weeks 2 & 3. According to CBS game logs, Maclin started 13 of 16 games last season. He did not start Week 1, nor Weeks 13 or 15 (DNP).

The target distribution in Philly has been broken down a ton this off season. Kolb just doesn't throw to Maclin because he is the number 4 option in the passing game. Jackson, Celek, and the RB's will be the people in the offense that are getting the activity with Kolb at QB, not Maclin.

:X

Targets Weeks 2 & 3Brent Celek 20

DeSean Jackson 19

Running Backs 16

Jason Avant 12

Kevin Curtis 9 - In one game with a DNP in Week 3!

Jeremy Maclin 9

The reason I claim Maclin as the number 4 option in the passing game is because he did get more targets than Avant during the season with McNabb.

 

[Carl Eller's Dead Liver]

Let’s look at the facts:

...

In weeks 2 and 3 of 2009 (Kolb starting), DeSean still had great numbers. Week 2: 4 receptions, 101 yards, 1 TD; Week 3: 6 receptions, 149 yards, 1 TD. Maclin was not starting at this point and they didn’t change their play book at this point either.

He started weeks 2 & 3. According to CBS game logs, Maclin started 13 of 16 games last season. He did not start Week 1, nor Weeks 13 or 15 (DNP).

The target distribution in Philly has been broken down a ton this off season. Kolb just doesn't throw to Maclin because he is the number 4 option in the passing game. Jackson, Celek, and the RB's will be the people in the offense that are getting the activity with Kolb at QB, not Maclin.

Targets Weeks 2 & 3Brent Celek 20

DeSean Jackson 19

Running Backs 16

Jason Avant 12

Kevin Curtis 9 - In one game with a DNP in Week 3!

Jeremy Maclin 9

The reason I claim Maclin as the number 4 option in the passing game is because he did get more targets than Avant during the season with McNabb.

Yeah I don't know....I thought Maclin wasn't a starter until week 5, but again this is memory talking here. Either way week 2 and week 3 were very early in Maclin's rookie season.....I don't assign any weight these two games for Maclin or for who Kolb will target in his 1st full season based on these two games. It will be a fairly different offense they run.....which I personally feel favors Maclin over Jackson. I still think they are both good plays though.

 

[bicycle_seat_sniffer]

Let’s look at the facts:

...

In weeks 2 and 3 of 2009 (Kolb starting), DeSean still had great numbers. Week 2: 4 receptions, 101 yards, 1 TD; Week 3: 6 receptions, 149 yards, 1 TD. Maclin was not starting at this point and they didn’t change their play book at this point either.

He started weeks 2 & 3. According to CBS game logs, Maclin started 13 of 16 games last season. He did not start Week 1, nor Weeks 13 or 15 (DNP).

The target distribution in Philly has been broken down a ton this off season. Kolb just doesn't throw to Maclin because he is the number 4 option in the passing game. Jackson, Celek, and the RB's will be the people in the offense that are getting the activity with Kolb at QB, not Maclin.

Targets Weeks 2 & 3Brent Celek 20

DeSean Jackson 19

Running Backs 16

Jason Avant 12

Kevin Curtis 9 - In one game with a DNP in Week 3!

Jeremy Maclin 9

The reason I claim Maclin as the number 4 option in the passing game is because he did get more targets than Avant during the season with McNabb.

2 weeks = small sample size. especially considering that was only the 2nd n 3rd game that Maclin ever played. The was just me wondering how many leagues you own Maclin in

 

[Carl Eller's Dead Liver]

Let’s look at the facts:

...

In weeks 2 and 3 of 2009 (Kolb starting), DeSean still had great numbers. Week 2: 4 receptions, 101 yards, 1 TD; Week 3: 6 receptions, 149 yards, 1 TD. Maclin was not starting at this point and they didn’t change their play book at this point either.

He started weeks 2 & 3. According to CBS game logs, Maclin started 13 of 16 games last season. He did not start Week 1, nor Weeks 13 or 15 (DNP).

The target distribution in Philly has been broken down a ton this off season. Kolb just doesn't throw to Maclin because he is the number 4 option in the passing game. Jackson, Celek, and the RB's will be the people in the offense that are getting the activity with Kolb at QB, not Maclin.

Targets Weeks 2 & 3Brent Celek 20

DeSean Jackson 19

Running Backs 16

Jason Avant 12

Kevin Curtis 9 - In one game with a DNP in Week 3!

Jeremy Maclin 9

The reason I claim Maclin as the number 4 option in the passing game is because he did get more targets than Avant during the season with McNabb.

2 weeks = small sample size. especially considering that was only the 2nd n 3rd game that Maclin ever played. The was just me wondering how many leagues you own Maclin in

LOL! I am in two dynasty leagues and I own him in one league. Fair questoin.

 

[metoo]

Let’s look at the facts:

Fact 1: The Eagles offense is going through a small metamorphosis. They are still going to run West Coast, but a different style of West Coast than they did because of different QB skill sets.

Fact 2: A West Coast offense run by Donavan McNabb is a vertical passing game. McNabb is a fantastic deep ball QB, but is average in short/middle accuracy routes.

Fact 3: A West Coast offense run by Kevin Kolb is going to be a more traditional dink and dunk offense based on short routes, quick reads, and accurate passes.

Fact 4: DeSean Jackson is one of the best deep route running WR’s in the game. He is a BIG play guy. Most of his TD’s in 2008 and 2009 were a direct result of a deep ball thrown by McNabb. Jackson’s body is more suited to hold up on deep fly routes rather than over the middle, heavy traffic routes. His body will never be more than what it is do his small frame. Adding weight is not possible. A big play WR, not a possession WR.

Fact 5: Jeremy Maclin’s production in college and in the pros so far has been based on short to intermediate routes, getting open quickly, and making great moves after the catch. Maclin added 10 lbs of muscle to his frame this off season, which might further help his him become a great possession WR.

Opinion #1: Maclin will out produce Jackson in PPR leagues starting this season. Maclin is more suited to a traditional West Coast offense and will catch 80-90 passes this season. 80 catches, 1200 yards, 9 TD’s. Low end fantasy #1 WR numbers.

Opinion #2: Jackson will still be productive, but not as productive as he was with McNabb. 55 receptions, 1000 yards, 6 TD’s. Still good numbers.

Disclaimer: I’d also like to say that I own Maclin and not Jackson in a dynasty league, so maybe I am over thinking things a bit. I acknowledge this conflict in interest, but I also think I make several great points.

Counter argument fact: In weeks 2 and 3 of 2009 (Kolb starting), DeSean still had great numbers. Week 2: 4 receptions, 101 yards, 1 TD; Week 3: 6 receptions, 149 yards, 1 TD. Maclin was not starting at this point and they didn’t change their play book at this point either.

If Jackson is healthy all season and only catches 55 balls, someone needs to be fired.

 

[Carl Eller's Dead Liver]

Let’s look at the facts:

Fact 1: The Eagles offense is going through a small metamorphosis. They are still going to run West Coast, but a different style of West Coast than they did because of different QB skill sets.

Fact 2: A West Coast offense run by Donavan McNabb is a vertical passing game. McNabb is a fantastic deep ball QB, but is average in short/middle accuracy routes.

Fact 3: A West Coast offense run by Kevin Kolb is going to be a more traditional dink and dunk offense based on short routes, quick reads, and accurate passes.

Fact 4: DeSean Jackson is one of the best deep route running WR’s in the game. He is a BIG play guy. Most of his TD’s in 2008 and 2009 were a direct result of a deep ball thrown by McNabb. Jackson’s body is more suited to hold up on deep fly routes rather than over the middle, heavy traffic routes. His body will never be more than what it is do his small frame. Adding weight is not possible. A big play WR, not a possession WR.

Fact 5: Jeremy Maclin’s production in college and in the pros so far has been based on short to intermediate routes, getting open quickly, and making great moves after the catch. Maclin added 10 lbs of muscle to his frame this off season, which might further help his him become a great possession WR.

Opinion #1: Maclin will out produce Jackson in PPR leagues starting this season. Maclin is more suited to a traditional West Coast offense and will catch 80-90 passes this season. 80 catches, 1200 yards, 9 TD’s. Low end fantasy #1 WR numbers.

Opinion #2: Jackson will still be productive, but not as productive as he was with McNabb. 55 receptions, 1000 yards, 6 TD’s. Still good numbers.

Disclaimer: I’d also like to say that I own Maclin and not Jackson in a dynasty league, so maybe I am over thinking things a bit. I acknowledge this conflict in interest, but I also think I make several great points.

Counter argument fact: In weeks 2 and 3 of 2009 (Kolb starting), DeSean still had great numbers. Week 2: 4 receptions, 101 yards, 1 TD; Week 3: 6 receptions, 149 yards, 1 TD. Maclin was not starting at this point and they didn’t change their play book at this point either.

If Jackson is healthy all season and only catches 55 balls, someone needs to be fired.

He only had 63 receptions last year in an offense that favors him more than the new 2010 offense does. Does 63 receptions constitute a firing?

 

[massraider]

He only had 63 receptions last year in an offense that favors him more than the new 2010 offense does. Does 63 receptions constitute a firing?

Is there anything to back up this 'fact'?

 

[jurb26]

The presumption that DJax is not a "dink and dunk" type guy is simply off (as is the presumption that most of his TDs were deep balls). He was top 10 in YAC/reception last year - which means that many of his big plays were the result of his ability to shake defenders after catching the ball short and turning it into a big gain. Some would argue that Kolb's accuracy will benefit DJax as much as Maclin, as he will hit him in stride more often, giving him the opportunity to use his RAC-abilities (which some have suggested are 2nd only to CJ) to break big plays. Those YAC skills are exactly why he is such a dangerous threat as a return man as well. As a comparison, the Carolina Panthers have been a running team, with a traditional West coast offense - and Steve Smith has done quite well in a role similar to what DJax's will likely look like. IMHO, Smith is the perfect comparable to Jackson - a small WR whose game is predicated on speed and YAC. Smith has abviously lead the Panthers in receiving for most of the recent past (regardless as to who was QB) - so I don't think a regression for DeSean Jackson and the ascendance of Maclin is a given by any means. Is it possible? Sure. Likely? Let's just say, while Maclin is undoubtedly improving his game, Desean is as well. I think Jackson will lead the Eagle WRs in receiving yards and TDs again this season.

This pretty much nails exactly how I feel about this situation, well said. I own Maclin in a dynasty league and don't own Jackson in any leagues but I still think Jackson is clearly the better option in Philly. I said it when he was drafted by Philly 2 years ago and I still believe it now. Jackson is Taylor-made for the WCO and has trained under the supervision of Jerry Rice for years. There are no changes to a WCO that won't play to Jackson's strengths IMO. He is probably the quickest WR in the NFL in and out of breaks, which is critical to the WCO. He runs spectacular routes, which is critical to the WCO. He is one of the best in the NFL at YAC and open field running, which is critical to the WCO. Lastly he has great hands and catches the ball smoothly, which is critical to the WCO. Really the only thing left is how good his timing will be with Kolb. Timing is probably the most critical element of all but we really won't know that until the season starts. Based on last years limited glimpses it doesn't appear to be a problem though.This isn't to say that Maclin can't or won't out produce him. I hope he does as a Maclin owner and Maclin has a great skill set for the WCO offense as well. I just don't think Maclin is the same caliber of player as Jackson. That's no dig, Jackson is just that good IMO.

 

[Zoomanji]

I don't feel like looking it up now but I believe that some of Desean's best games last year were with Kolb. It was also rumored that he was the player behind the rumblings that preferred Kolb to McNabb and thought it was time to move on.

I still do agree with your points and think their stats will be closer than what people expect. Maclin's production slightly higher than expected and Jackson's slightly lower.

Yes, I did include DeSean's stats in weeks 2 & 3 when Kolb was the starter. They were very good! I do think Andy Reid will change the playbook quite a bit though to more suit Kolb's skillset.

LOL

In 10 years he never adjusted the playbook to play to McNabb's strengths. What makes you think he'll do that for Kolb?

 

[finito]

Will there be an odd man out between Jackson, Maclin and Celek? It's rare that there are 3 great fantasy options on a team.

 

[Zoomanji]

Will there be an odd man out between Jackson, Maclin and Celek? It's rare that there are 3 great fantasy options on a team.

Yes, over the season it will be Maclin. Celek and Jackson are more established plus there are the passes to the RBs.I think the reception leader each week will be different, any of the 3 but over the season Jackson and Celek will be the main guys.

 

[jurb26]

He only had 63 receptions last year in an offense that favors him more than the new 2010 offense does. Does 63 receptions constitute a firing?

Is there anything to back up this 'fact'?

Much like every thing on this board, the above statement is an opinion. That doesn't make it irrational or false. I simply don't agree with it. I'd have to say that Philly would be foolish to not get the ball in the hands of Jackson at least 5 times a game on offense (this doesn't include ST). He is easily one of the most explosive and dynamic weapons in the NFL and you simply have to give him some "at bats" IMO. That would relate to a minimum of 80 touches (receptions/rushes) over 16 games.

 

[Avery]

I am remembering this incorrectly, but wasn't the knock of Maclin coming out that he was not a very good route runner? Not that he couldn't improve upon that, but aren't crisp routes especially important in a WCO?

Aside from him getting bigger, are there any reports that he has improved as a route runner?

 

[Shutout]

The one big thing that people need to consider here lies within the point that some are making to challenge when others say that Jackson is just a big play guy. The counter point is that he is/can be much more than that and that will help his catches/production, etc.

I don't disagree that he CAN do other things besides catch all the big plays (which drives up his YAC numbers and really is the thing that people think of when they think of DJAX...seems like everyone has this mental image that he is always ripping off nothing but 60+ yard TDs). However, what people nedd to consider is that if the Eagles try to use DJAX in that other role and start catching the shorter passes, playing the "bigger" receiver in the offense, all those things that would drive up his production, he doesn't have the body to take it over the course of the year.

As much as people talk about the concerns of players like Jahvid best having concussions, etc, I don't think I have seen anyone talk about how London Fletcher gave DJAX a concussion last year while running a route. Point being, yes he is incredibly talented and has the speed and all, but if he is asked to mix it up more and take the kinds of hits that you don't usually take when running the fly and stretch patterns, he is also more likely to be injured and he is not ideally sized for that. One of the things about him in college was the frequent injuries (never serious but enough to make him miss time). SO, you'll have a great player who can put up awesome numbers, but inconsistency may always keep him from being a top tier FF option.

 

[Warpig]

As a Maclin owner in a deep dynasty league, I hope your opinions are accurate.

However, anything more than the numbers he put up last year is just gravy as far as I'm concerned. We have no idea what Kolb will do this year. People are placing lofty expectations on the poor guy which in all actuality are a little far fetched.

We can't assume that Kolb doesn't have the arm to make deep throws ala McNabb. It's not like he needs to be able to chuck 80 yarders, regardless of the offense. What if he comes out this year with a little more confidence than last year and is more comfortable with his role and knowledge of the play book and the comfort factor of where his WR's will be? I'm willing to bet he'll be more willing to take deep shots down the field.

I totally expect Jackson to be the #1 guy simply because of his explosiveness and how the offense is geared. Maclin will also get decent numbers as long as Kolb progresses. And I wouldn't be surprised at all if Celek is the one that gets left behind. Sure, young, inexperienced QB's may lean on their TE's more, but Kolb will now have a full offseason to work with his weapons and it is expected that he may try to force balls downfield in hopes of making a big play.

As far as McCoy, if he doesn't learn how to pass block and pick up tough yards, I don't expect him to see much time on 3rd downs. So I don't envision him as being that big of a threat to steal receptions from Jackson, Maclin, or Celek.

ALSO, as far as how many games Maclin started last year...I think the numbers can be deceiving. Depending on what type of formation they opened the game with, sure he could have 'STARTED' the game, but if they went to a different package/s for the rest of the game that didn't require 2 or more WR's then Maclin may not have played very much. So that stat should be taken with a grain of salt.

 

[massraider]

I am remembering this incorrectly, but wasn't the knock of Maclin coming out that he was not a very good route runner? Not that he couldn't improve upon that, but aren't crisp routes especially important in a WCO?Aside from him getting bigger, are there any reports that he has improved as a route runner?

Well, might be time for us to consider that he wasn't a bad route runner, but that we never saw him run routes in college. I think it was more of an unknown than a negative. Who knows, maybe it was a negative, and he is a quick learner. I like Maclin, but it seems like DeSean doesn't get enough love. It's like it's a negative that he scores on long plays. Maybe he needs to get tackled more to get some respect.

 

[metoo]

Let’s look at the facts:

Fact 1: The Eagles offense is going through a small metamorphosis. They are still going to run West Coast, but a different style of West Coast than they did because of different QB skill sets.

Fact 2: A West Coast offense run by Donavan McNabb is a vertical passing game. McNabb is a fantastic deep ball QB, but is average in short/middle accuracy routes.

Fact 3: A West Coast offense run by Kevin Kolb is going to be a more traditional dink and dunk offense based on short routes, quick reads, and accurate passes.

Fact 4: DeSean Jackson is one of the best deep route running WR’s in the game. He is a BIG play guy. Most of his TD’s in 2008 and 2009 were a direct result of a deep ball thrown by McNabb. Jackson’s body is more suited to hold up on deep fly routes rather than over the middle, heavy traffic routes. His body will never be more than what it is do his small frame. Adding weight is not possible. A big play WR, not a possession WR.

Fact 5: Jeremy Maclin’s production in college and in the pros so far has been based on short to intermediate routes, getting open quickly, and making great moves after the catch. Maclin added 10 lbs of muscle to his frame this off season, which might further help his him become a great possession WR.

Opinion #1: Maclin will out produce Jackson in PPR leagues starting this season. Maclin is more suited to a traditional West Coast offense and will catch 80-90 passes this season. 80 catches, 1200 yards, 9 TD’s. Low end fantasy #1 WR numbers.

Opinion #2: Jackson will still be productive, but not as productive as he was with McNabb. 55 receptions, 1000 yards, 6 TD’s. Still good numbers.

Disclaimer: I’d also like to say that I own Maclin and not Jackson in a dynasty league, so maybe I am over thinking things a bit. I acknowledge this conflict in interest, but I also think I make several great points.

Counter argument fact: In weeks 2 and 3 of 2009 (Kolb starting), DeSean still had great numbers. Week 2: 4 receptions, 101 yards, 1 TD; Week 3: 6 receptions, 149 yards, 1 TD. Maclin was not starting at this point and they didn’t change their play book at this point either.

If Jackson is healthy all season and only catches 55 balls, someone needs to be fired.

He only had 63 receptions last year in an offense that favors him more than the new 2010 offense does. Does 63 receptions constitute a firing?

The guy is a playmaker, his receptions should go up not down. If they decrease someone should be fired.

 

[CentralPA]

I look at DeSean Jackson and Jeremy Maclin as a young Larry Fitzgerald and Anquan Boldin developing, I think they can both be that good. Maclin's numbers will go up this year, I don't think it's ludacrious to say Maclin can put up over a 1000 yrds rec and catch 8-10 TDs. With that said I think DeSean will have better numbers because he showed he can run after he catches the ball as well. I do think his size does leave him more susceptiable to injury so he will be used more in the open and also running deep patterns while Maclin has the size to be able to catch slants and balls over the middle and take a hit from a linebacker. It's just really up in the air right now as to who will have better numbers because we don't have enough film on Kolb running the WCO but I think it's a safe bet that both recievers are going to be very good if they can stay healthy.

 

[Vision6]

I think Maclin is going to disappoint a lot of people in the coming years lol

 

[DoubleG]

Two things. First, 80/1200/9 outproduces 55/1000/6 in non-PPR, too, so I don't understand the need to stipulate that Maclin will outproduce DeSean in PPR in the title. Shouldn't it just say Maclin will outproduce DeSean? Second, most of this has been discussed in this thread http://forums.footballguys.com/forum/index...howtopic=531104

I don't remember the original post stipulating PPR.

 

[Wyld Stallyns]

Let’s look at the facts:

Fact 1: The Eagles offense is going through a small metamorphosis. They are still going to run West Coast, but a different style of West Coast than they did because of different QB skill sets.

Fact 3: A West Coast offense run by Kevin Kolb is going to be a more traditional dink and dunk offense based on short routes, quick reads, and accurate passes.

Not to jump on the "your facts are opinions" bandwagon too much here, but I keep hearing different people mentioning the two above points which basically boil down to this: "The Eagles offense is going to change and we're going to see fewer long passes."Just wondering if anyone has anything to support this since I've heard it from multiple people. Any links? Interviews with Reid, etc? Have the Eagles implied as much, or are people just assuming this will be the case?

 

[unckeyherb]

Let’s look at the facts:

Fact 1: The Eagles offense is going through a small metamorphosis. They are still going to run West Coast, but a different style of West Coast than they did because of different QB skill sets.

Fact 3: A West Coast offense run by Kevin Kolb is going to be a more traditional dink and dunk offense based on short routes, quick reads, and accurate passes.

Not to jump on the "your facts are opinions" bandwagon too much here, but I keep hearing different people mentioning the two above points which basically boil down to this: "The Eagles offense is going to change and we're going to see fewer long passes."Just wondering if anyone has anything to support this since I've heard it from multiple people. Any links? Interviews with Reid, etc? Have the Eagles implied as much, or are people just assuming this will be the case?

No, not at all. In fact I'd argue that Reid is one of the most stubborn coaches in the league and has proven time and time again that he is unwilling to change up his strategy too much. Though he did level out the passing to run ratios a bit when Garcia/Feely etc. were in. I think the general assumption is that Kolb does not possess the same arm strength and long-pass accuracy that McNabb does, hence there will be less deep passes in general. This is less of a knock on Kolb than it is praise of McNabb, who truly does have a great arm and can place the ball exactly where he wants it (as long as the pass is farther than 25 yards).

From what I understand though, this line of thinking is flawed as Kolb actually has very good arm strength and I believe he made some pretty great, deep-passes last year.

 

[Go deep]

Let's look at the facts:

Fact 1: The Eagles offense is going through a small metamorphosis. They are still going to run West Coast, but a different style of West Coast than they did because of different QB skill sets.

Fact 2: A West Coast offense run by Donavan McNabb is a vertical passing game. McNabb is a fantastic deep ball QB, but is average in short/middle accuracy routes.

Fact 3: A West Coast offense run by Kevin Kolb is going to be a more traditional dink and dunk offense based on short routes, quick reads, and accurate passes.

Fact 4: DeSean Jackson is one of the best deep route running WR's in the game. He is a BIG play guy. Most of his TD's in 2008 and 2009 were a direct result of a deep ball thrown by McNabb. Jackson's body is more suited to hold up on deep fly routes rather than over the middle, heavy traffic routes. His body will never be more than what it is do his small frame. Adding weight is not possible. A big play WR, not a possession WR.

Fact 5: Jeremy Maclin's production in college and in the pros so far has been based on short to intermediate routes, getting open quickly, and making great moves after the catch. Maclin added 10 lbs of muscle to his frame this off season, which might further help his him become a great possession WR.

Opinion #1: Maclin will out produce Jackson in PPR leagues starting this season. Maclin is more suited to a traditional West Coast offense and will catch 80-90 passes this season. 80 catches, 1200 yards, 9 TD's. Low end fantasy #1 WR numbers.

Opinion #2: Jackson will still be productive, but not as productive as he was with McNabb. 55 receptions, 1000 yards, 6 TD's. Still good numbers.

Disclaimer: I'd also like to say that I own Maclin and not Jackson in a dynasty league, so maybe I am over thinking things a bit. I acknowledge this conflict in interest, but I also think I make several great points.

Counter argument fact: In weeks 2 and 3 of 2009 (Kolb starting), DeSean still had great numbers. Week 2: 4 receptions, 101 yards, 1 TD; Week 3: 6 receptions, 149 yards, 1 TD. Maclin was not starting at this point and they didn't change their play book at this point either.

If Jackson is healthy all season and only catches 55 balls, someone needs to be fired.

He only had 63 receptions last year in an offense that favors him more than the new 2010 offense does. Does 63 receptions constitute a firing?

This makes absolutely no sense. So you think he has peaked in his 2nd year? How do you know there will be a new offense, and even if there is, how do you know it wont be geared to get the ball in Jacksons hands more? You make alot of assumptions to make your point, but dont confuse them with facts. Desean is not just a deep threat, he is one of the most explosive players with the ball in his hands. With Westbrook gone, Jackson is clearly the best offensive player on the Eagles, and they will get the ball in his hands as much as possible.I am in 4 dynasty leagues and own DJax in one and Maclin in another, so i dont care either way. I am just shocked at how many people think Desean has nowhere to go but down and Maclin has nowhere to go but up. I look for Jacksons catches to go up considerably this year. I think 80 catches is a conservative estimate. ?I thnk you will see alot more quick slants, bubble screens, ect. with Jackson this year. I just dont get the logic in getting the ball to your best playmaker LESS this year, i dont care what kind of offense they run.

 

[JPeso]

Outscore Jackson? Probably not. Better value at both dynasty and redraft ADP? Certainly.

 

[JPeso]

Two things. First, 80/1200/9 outproduces 55/1000/6 in non-PPR, too, so I don't understand the need to stipulate that Maclin will outproduce DeSean in PPR in the title. Shouldn't it just say Maclin will outproduce DeSean? Second, most of this has been discussed in this thread http://forums.footballguys.com/forum/index...howtopic=531104

I don't remember the original post stipulating PPR.

This is the way the topic appears in the forum on my computer...Jeremy Maclin will outproduce DeSean Jackson

in PPR Leagues

Me too.

 

[Carl Eller's Dead Liver]

Let's look at the facts:

Fact 1: The Eagles offense is going through a small metamorphosis. They are still going to run West Coast, but a different style of West Coast than they did because of different QB skill sets.

Fact 2: A West Coast offense run by Donavan McNabb is a vertical passing game. McNabb is a fantastic deep ball QB, but is average in short/middle accuracy routes.

Fact 3: A West Coast offense run by Kevin Kolb is going to be a more traditional dink and dunk offense based on short routes, quick reads, and accurate passes.

Fact 4: DeSean Jackson is one of the best deep route running WR's in the game. He is a BIG play guy. Most of his TD's in 2008 and 2009 were a direct result of a deep ball thrown by McNabb. Jackson's body is more suited to hold up on deep fly routes rather than over the middle, heavy traffic routes. His body will never be more than what it is do his small frame. Adding weight is not possible. A big play WR, not a possession WR.

Fact 5: Jeremy Maclin's production in college and in the pros so far has been based on short to intermediate routes, getting open quickly, and making great moves after the catch. Maclin added 10 lbs of muscle to his frame this off season, which might further help his him become a great possession WR.

Opinion #1: Maclin will out produce Jackson in PPR leagues starting this season. Maclin is more suited to a traditional West Coast offense and will catch 80-90 passes this season. 80 catches, 1200 yards, 9 TD's. Low end fantasy #1 WR numbers.

Opinion #2: Jackson will still be productive, but not as productive as he was with McNabb. 55 receptions, 1000 yards, 6 TD's. Still good numbers.

Disclaimer: I'd also like to say that I own Maclin and not Jackson in a dynasty league, so maybe I am over thinking things a bit. I acknowledge this conflict in interest, but I also think I make several great points.

Counter argument fact: In weeks 2 and 3 of 2009 (Kolb starting), DeSean still had great numbers. Week 2: 4 receptions, 101 yards, 1 TD; Week 3: 6 receptions, 149 yards, 1 TD. Maclin was not starting at this point and they didn't change their play book at this point either.

If Jackson is healthy all season and only catches 55 balls, someone needs to be fired.

He only had 63 receptions last year in an offense that favors him more than the new 2010 offense does. Does 63 receptions constitute a firing?

This makes absolutely no sense. So you think he has peaked in his 2nd year? How do you know there will be a new offense, and even if there is, how do you know it wont be geared to get the ball in Jacksons hands more? You make alot of assumptions to make your point, but dont confuse them with facts. Desean is not just a deep threat, he is one of the most explosive players with the ball in his hands. With Westbrook gone, Jackson is clearly the best offensive player on the Eagles, and they will get the ball in his hands as much as possible.I am in 4 dynasty leagues and own DJax in one and Maclin in another, so i dont care either way. I am just shocked at how many people think Desean has nowhere to go but down and Maclin has nowhere to go but up. I look for Jacksons catches to go up considerably this year. I think 80 catches is a conservative estimate. ?I thnk you will see alot more quick slants, bubble screens, ect. with Jackson this year. I just dont get the logic in getting the ball to your best playmaker LESS this year, i dont care what kind of offense they run.

No, I just think Jackson regresses this year....nothing to do with talent, but everything having to do with the new QB. Actually, I think I am in the minority....which is why I posted this thread. My thinking is the general public thinking....on the contrary, it is a bold prediction.

 

[radballs]

Sorry if this was already covered because I don't have time to read the whole thread, however, I do agree that given where each guy is being drafted, I'd rather have Maclin at his price.

 

[phillyphan07]

as an eagles homer, I wouldn't be shocked if Maclin put up better stats. There's a lot of talent on that offense and they might just take whatever the opposing defensive gives them....

but I do think Maclin gets overlooked because of Jackson.... and could definately be the better value pick. Right now Jackson's ADP is in the mid 20s and Maclin's ADP is in the mid 70s.

 

[DoubleG]

Two things. First, 80/1200/9 outproduces 55/1000/6 in non-PPR, too, so I don't understand the need to stipulate that Maclin will outproduce DeSean in PPR in the title. Shouldn't it just say Maclin will outproduce DeSean? Second, most of this has been discussed in this thread http://forums.footballguys.com/forum/index...howtopic=531104

I don't remember the original post stipulating PPR.

This is the way the topic appears in the forum on my computer...Jeremy Maclin will outproduce DeSean Jackson

in PPR Leagues

Mine as well...now. I didn't remember this being the title originally. I thought originally the sub was something like "in 2010"

 

[Go deep]

Let's look at the facts:

Fact 1: The Eagles offense is going through a small metamorphosis. They are still going to run West Coast, but a different style of West Coast than they did because of different QB skill sets.

Fact 2: A West Coast offense run by Donavan McNabb is a vertical passing game. McNabb is a fantastic deep ball QB, but is average in short/middle accuracy routes.

Fact 3: A West Coast offense run by Kevin Kolb is going to be a more traditional dink and dunk offense based on short routes, quick reads, and accurate passes.

Fact 4: DeSean Jackson is one of the best deep route running WR's in the game. He is a BIG play guy. Most of his TD's in 2008 and 2009 were a direct result of a deep ball thrown by McNabb. Jackson's body is more suited to hold up on deep fly routes rather than over the middle, heavy traffic routes. His body will never be more than what it is do his small frame. Adding weight is not possible. A big play WR, not a possession WR.

Fact 5: Jeremy Maclin's production in college and in the pros so far has been based on short to intermediate routes, getting open quickly, and making great moves after the catch. Maclin added 10 lbs of muscle to his frame this off season, which might further help his him become a great possession WR.

Opinion #1: Maclin will out produce Jackson in PPR leagues starting this season. Maclin is more suited to a traditional West Coast offense and will catch 80-90 passes this season. 80 catches, 1200 yards, 9 TD's. Low end fantasy #1 WR numbers.

Opinion #2: Jackson will still be productive, but not as productive as he was with McNabb. 55 receptions, 1000 yards, 6 TD's. Still good numbers.

Disclaimer: I'd also like to say that I own Maclin and not Jackson in a dynasty league, so maybe I am over thinking things a bit. I acknowledge this conflict in interest, but I also think I make several great points.

Counter argument fact: In weeks 2 and 3 of 2009 (Kolb starting), DeSean still had great numbers. Week 2: 4 receptions, 101 yards, 1 TD; Week 3: 6 receptions, 149 yards, 1 TD. Maclin was not starting at this point and they didn't change their play book at this point either.

If Jackson is healthy all season and only catches 55 balls, someone needs to be fired.

He only had 63 receptions last year in an offense that favors him more than the new 2010 offense does. Does 63 receptions constitute a firing?

This makes absolutely no sense. So you think he has peaked in his 2nd year? How do you know there will be a new offense, and even if there is, how do you know it wont be geared to get the ball in Jacksons hands more? You make alot of assumptions to make your point, but dont confuse them with facts. Desean is not just a deep threat, he is one of the most explosive players with the ball in his hands. With Westbrook gone, Jackson is clearly the best offensive player on the Eagles, and they will get the ball in his hands as much as possible.I am in 4 dynasty leagues and own DJax in one and Maclin in another, so i dont care either way. I am just shocked at how many people think Desean has nowhere to go but down and Maclin has nowhere to go but up. I look for Jacksons catches to go up considerably this year. I think 80 catches is a conservative estimate. ?I thnk you will see alot more quick slants, bubble screens, ect. with Jackson this year. I just dont get the logic in getting the ball to your best playmaker LESS this year, i dont care what kind of offense they run.

No, I just think Jackson regresses this year....nothing to do with talent, but everything having to do with the new QB. Actually, I think I am in the minority....which is why I posted this thread. My thinking is the general public thinking....on the contrary, it is a bold prediction.

I have no problem with people going against the grain. I just cant see why Desean would regress. Im open to hearing reason why, i jusy dont think having a new QB is one of them. Particularly when Jackson had two good games when Kolb was the QB last year. I actually think Kolb starting this year hurts Maclin the most. I like Maclin long term in dynasty leagues, but i am not expecting much in 2010. I think the Eagles passing game goes through Jackson and Celek this year, with the RB's right behind them.

 

[Grid71]

I have no problem with people going against the grain. I just cant see why Desean would regress. Im open to hearing reason why, i jusy dont think having a new QB is one of them. Particularly when Jackson had two good games when Kolb was the QB last year. I actually think Kolb starting this year hurts Maclin the most. I like Maclin long term in dynasty leagues, but i am not expecting much in 2010. I think the Eagles passing game goes through Jackson and Celek this year, with the RB's right behind them.

Celek has been over looked in this thread. Kolb relied heavily on the TE (8 rec for 104 yds in each game) and threw to the stud DJax for the big plays. The big difference was that Maclin wasn't a starter at that point. It's unpossible to predict how much the distribution will change with another viable starting WR in the mix. On paper, it is being touted that Maclin will benefit greatly, but putting him ahead of DJax is a result of drinking too much kool aid.

 

[Brothers Mayhem]

When the inexperienced Kolb drops back to pass - who is likely to be there to chip the blitzing LB? All it's going to take is just one play where the 2nd year McCoy misses a pass block assignment and then it's the Vick show...but Vick might not be rostered. Depending on how recent events unravel, if he is cut - it's likely and probable that JGarcia will be the backup and we already know he is a reliable West Coast offense conductor, right?...well, at one time he was.

I know this may be an extreme scenario, however, as far as who will out produce who, it is going to be a game of "Guess how many Jelly beans are in the Jar" until we get some more data on Kolb.

I wouldn't feel confident in assuming DJax continues the run with a new QB and I certainly wouldn't feel confident that Maclin comes into his own with a new QB under center. I know, I know...you have already seen Kolb prove his value...there is a big difference in filling in on a handful of games and playing an entire season (which even Kolb's predecessor struggled with).

 

[musicman_17046]

IMO Maclin and Jackson will put up good numbers,but if you are looking for awesome numbers,don't look for any Eagles WR/TE/RB to fit that bill.Maclin,Jackson,Avant,Weaver,McCoy,Celek and Ingram will all get their hands on the ball.IMO this is going to be a fun offense to watch,but Kolb may be the only Eagle worthy of a number 1 position in fantasy football.

 

[baconisgood]

IMO Maclin and Jackson will put up good numbers,but if you are looking for awesome numbers,don't look for any Eagles WR/TE/RB to fit that bill.Maclin,Jackson,Avant,Weaver,McCoy,Celek and Ingram will all get their hands on the ball.IMO this is going to be a fun offense to watch,but Kolb may be the only Eagle worthy of a number 1 position in fantasy football.

Weaver has averaged 1.2 receptions/game for his career, Avant 2.6 r/g last season in his 4th season with the same team, same system, same QB- he sounds a lot like Patrick Crayton to me- worthwhile as an NFL receiver but only his best season will be fantasy relevant and won't take serious targets away from 1st round talent. McCoy will get catches in this system but that is mitigated by the fact that Westbrook never averaged 19 rushes a game for the Eagles.The Eagles are going to pass the ball more than your average team- they have been well above the average in attempts for 4 years.

 

[Routilla]

I think DJ gets doubled on most every play and Celek gets safety help in the middle. I think Maclin gets single coverage most every down, no reason why he would not be the receiver with the path of least resistance for Kolb. This is assuming Kolb will stand and deliver the ball down the field instead of dumping it off to the RBs all day. Obviously if he checks down the DEF will play the flats and shut down the offense rather easily. Kolb has to deliver the ball down the field and if he does not try and force it into double coverage with DJ or Celek, I think Maclin is the benefactor in single coverage.

 

[Carl Eller's Dead Liver]

Let’s look at the facts:

Fact 1: The Eagles offense is going through a small metamorphosis. They are still going to run West Coast, but a different style of West Coast than they did because of different QB skill sets.

Fact 3: A West Coast offense run by Kevin Kolb is going to be a more traditional dink and dunk offense based on short routes, quick reads, and accurate passes.

Not to jump on the "your facts are opinions" bandwagon too much here, but I keep hearing different people mentioning the two above points which basically boil down to this: "The Eagles offense is going to change and we're going to see fewer long passes."Just wondering if anyone has anything to support this since I've heard it from multiple people. Any links? Interviews with Reid, etc? Have the Eagles implied as much, or are people just assuming this will be the case?

No, not at all. In fact I'd argue that Reid is one of the most stubborn coaches in the league and has proven time and time again that he is unwilling to change up his strategy too much. Though he did level out the passing to run ratios a bit when Garcia/Feely etc. were in. I think the general assumption is that Kolb does not possess the same arm strength and long-pass accuracy that McNabb does, hence there will be less deep passes in general. This is less of a knock on Kolb than it is praise of McNabb, who truly does have a great arm and can place the ball exactly where he wants it (as long as the pass is farther than 25 yards).

From what I understand though, this line of thinking is flawed as Kolb actually has very good arm strength and I believe he made some pretty great, deep-passes last year.

Not trying to sound rude here, but what games are you talking about where Kolb passed deep last year? I watched both of his games and I don't remember a ball thrown deeper than 15 yards beyond the LOS. I know you are an Eagles fan, but I think you are mis-remembering. Can you point me towards some footage backing up Kolb's deep passes? All the footage I rewatched (and yes I did watch him live too) show him targeting short routes. Short routes IMO will benefit Maclin. Jackson will still be good, but Maclin will be the WR that sees an increase in production. This doesn't mean draft Maclin in the spot you would need to draft Jackson.......it means take advantage of the value of Maclin and score big on him. Maclin is rated too low in ADP right now. Snatch him up!

 

[JPeso]

IMO Maclin and Jackson will put up good numbers,but if you are looking for awesome numbers,don't look for any Eagles WR/TE/RB to fit that bill.Maclin,Jackson,Avant,Weaver,McCoy,Celek and Ingram will all get their hands on the ball.IMO this is going to be a fun offense to watch,but Kolb may be the only Eagle worthy of a number 1 position in fantasy football.

Draft McCoy as your PPR RB2 with the utmost confidence.

 

[Shermanator]

Jackson is the second most dangerous player in the league with the ball in his hands - he'll still obviously be a big part of this offense.

So who is #1 with the ball in his hands? I cant think of anyone better that DeSean with the ball in his hands. Remotely better

 

[Grid71]

Jackson is the second most dangerous player in the league with the ball in his hands - he'll still obviously be a big part of this offense.

So who is #1 with the ball in his hands? I cant think of anyone better that DeSean with the ball in his hands. Remotely better

Hester and Cribbs come to mind, can't say who is better between the three.ETA: Chris Johnson isn't bad either.