Unwrittenlaw
Footballguy
What's his value now that CLE has drafted Hardesty?
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Jerome Harrison (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter Unwrittenlaw
- Start date
Fallerjw
Footballguy
I'm not sure, but I would say not very high. It seems like Eric Mangini will do anything he can to keep him off the field. Browns drafted James Davis last year, traded for Peyton Hillis, draft Hardesty this year, and let Jamal Lewis continue to play way past his usefulness. All signs point to the team not wanting to stick with him.
Just saw this blurb:
http://www.rotoworld.com/content/playerpag...2314&spln=1
Steve Doerschuk of the Canton Repository speculates that the Browns will split carries evenly between Jerome Harrison and second-round pick Montario Hardesty and then adjust depending on who produces.
In other words, we could be looking at a "hot hand" situation. Harrison blew up for 561 yards and five touchdowns in the final three games of last season, but the Browns didn't trade up to nab Hardesty to have him watch. Monitor this battle in training camp closely.
http://www.rotoworld.com/content/playerpag...2314&spln=1
Steve Doerschuk of the Canton Repository speculates that the Browns will split carries evenly between Jerome Harrison and second-round pick Montario Hardesty and then adjust depending on who produces.
In other words, we could be looking at a "hot hand" situation. Harrison blew up for 561 yards and five touchdowns in the final three games of last season, but the Browns didn't trade up to nab Hardesty to have him watch. Monitor this battle in training camp closely.
zamboni
Footballguy
Maybe the Browns homers have better insight, but sometimes it seems that coaches are reluctant to fully go with a clearly talented RB. Maybe it's pass-blocking issues, toughness, who knows, but it's hard to grasp.
We see it here with Mangini and Harrison, with Cable and Michael Bush on the Raiders, and (still) Haley with Jamaal Charles.
We see it here with Mangini and Harrison, with Cable and Michael Bush on the Raiders, and (still) Haley with Jamaal Charles.
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I agree totally. We do see this happen from time to time. Is it really pass blocking? Is it team chemistry/disciplinary? Is it the coach's ego?Harrison has produced every time he's been given an opportunity. No matter what the problem is, I think it's bad coaching to keep the guy off the field. If the guy has some other sort of problem then cut him or trade him. Why make it personal and kill the guy's career?
PizzaDeliveryGuy
extra sausage
No clue. I would say what was posted above about the split then riding the hot hand is as good as you are going to get on the situation. A lot of upside if you can pick a back that takes over behind what has become a good line but right now it appears to be a less than appetizing situation to count on.
Wyld Stallyns
Footballguy
Before the draft the front office had said that they're excited about Harrison and that they're committed to him as their starter. On the other hand, they've also said that they're unconvinced that he can be a primary back for a full season with the amount of work that he got at the end of the year last year, and at the end of February Holmgren made a comment about needing a bigger back to compliment Jerome and that it was something they'd be addressing in the draft:
Roughly 2 weeks later they made the trade that brought in Peyton Hillis. I think most people assumed that Hillis was the 'bigger back compliment' that Holmgren eluded to and because the need was already addressed it wouldn't be as high a priority in the draft... But then they took Hardesty in the 2nd round. Here's what the Browns currently have at RB:
Now there are reports/speculation that the Browns are looking at Hardesty as an all-purpose back. That may or may not be the case, but I tend to lean towards the idea that they're looking at him as an insurance policy all-purpose back in the event that Harrison fails or gets injured, and that they intend to use Hardesty along with Hillis as a compliment to Jerome - who will remain the starter at first.At the end of the '09 season I was fairly excited about Harrison's chances this year, but it's becoming clear to me that he's going to be too much of a headache for me to bother rostering because he won't be the goalline back, he'll be on a short leash, and the Browns are so unconvinced in him that they've stocked their roster with a ton of options. I think Harrison's season comes down to this: He'll get an opportunity, but if he gives the coaches ANY reason to not use him then that's exactly what they'll do. It's going to come down to his performance in the first 3-4 games IMO, so taking a look at the schedule we see:
So he'll start off the season against the two worst run defenses last year in Tampa Bay and Kansas City, which is good news for his chances of endearing himself to the coaching staff... Heck, KC is the defense that he shredded for nearly 300 combined yards last year. But then those games are followed by matchups against the #5, #7, #10, & #3 run defenses and then the Saints and a bye week. So there's plenty of opportunity there for him to fall out of favor before the bye. Anyway - I'm mostly just rambling here but I guess my point is that I don't think Hardesty will (at first) eat into Harrison's carries as much as he will Hillis' and Davis'. All indications are that the Browns intend to give him an opportunity and I think with those first couple games he'll do just fine and entrench himself as someone that they can continue to rely on. Even the Baltimore and Cincy games don't worry me too much since he had pretty good performances against those teams last year (85 Total Yards against Baltimore - not 'horrible' considering, and 152 Total Yards against Cincy)... I definitely do see the potential for things to start going sour during that Wk.3-Wk.6 stretch though. And if they do, the coaching staff will most likely start to work Hardesty in more and more to see what he can do.Bottom line: I can't see using a roster spot on Harrison unless he falls far enough and becomes a decent flyer pick. I think he'll have a little more value in Flex leagues, but even then - There just seems like one too many headaches in this equation to place any bets on him being a reliable FF contributer. As a Browns fan who has watched him since he entered the league, I really do like his talent and really hope he succeeds as a primary back, but as a FF'er I don't think I'll be able to invest in him in most leagues. Unless Hardesty's presence drops his ADP to something crazy, I'm taking him off my radar.
MAC_32
Footballguy
He's going to be under valued, rooks have to earn their playing time under Mangini. It will take a big preseason for Hardesty to even get an opportunity to steal Harrison's job early in the season. If Harrison loses the job it's because of his own play, he won't be force fed 30+ touches/game again, but he will get the lion's share.
All that said, if Harrison starts off hot I'd sell, Hardesty will have to earn his touches but his drafting signals to me they want to give him the job in 2011 and let Harrison walk. We'll see, but I'd target Harrison draft day and figure the rest out as the season goes...
All that said, if Harrison starts off hot I'd sell, Hardesty will have to earn his touches but his drafting signals to me they want to give him the job in 2011 and let Harrison walk. We'll see, but I'd target Harrison draft day and figure the rest out as the season goes...
karmarooster
Footballguy
I'd just like to point out that there may be enough carries to go around in cleveland. all signs point to a run-first team:
-weak QBs
-no WRs
-strong o-line
-possibly improving defense
-HC philosophy
in some of the games toward the end of the season last year, i recall the browns running the ball around 40 times. Harrison could still see 10-15 carries plus a handful of receptions. the real question here seems to be the Hardesty/Davis competition as they share similar skill sets. I think the drafting of Hardesty suggests Davis is lacking moreso than Harrison.
for example in the game last year vs. KC, they ran the ball 49 times. however as i'm writing this i just remembered Cribbs. that complicates the situation even more....
-weak QBs
-no WRs
-strong o-line
-possibly improving defense
-HC philosophy
in some of the games toward the end of the season last year, i recall the browns running the ball around 40 times. Harrison could still see 10-15 carries plus a handful of receptions. the real question here seems to be the Hardesty/Davis competition as they share similar skill sets. I think the drafting of Hardesty suggests Davis is lacking moreso than Harrison.
for example in the game last year vs. KC, they ran the ball 49 times. however as i'm writing this i just remembered Cribbs. that complicates the situation even more....
Genghis Khan
Footballguy
Welcome to the Cleveland Carousel.
Anderson, Quinn, Dorsey, Frye...etc. Now Spaghetti Delhomme.
Lewis, Harrison, Cribbs, Davis...
What makes you think they have a clue about identifying talent?
Anderson, Quinn, Dorsey, Frye...etc. Now Spaghetti Delhomme.
Lewis, Harrison, Cribbs, Davis...
What makes you think they have a clue about identifying talent?
Fallerjw
Footballguy
Jamal Lewis would have started the whole year last year if he hadn't got hurt. The Browns probably would have only won 2 games under that scenario. The team also would have probably fired Mangini. So isn't it interesting that Jerome Harrison, who may have saved Mangini's job, appears to be getting pushed out for some unknown reason.http://nbcsports.msnbc.com/id/37495398/ns/...ts-player_news/
Jerome Harrison is currently "playing behind" rookie Montario Hardesty in Browns OTAs.
Keep in mind that this was one of Harrison's first offseason practices; he only recently began working out since signing a restricted free agent "injury waiver." Still, Hardesty has been running with the starters since the middle of last month. It's especially noteworthy that Eric Mangini is not deferring to the veteran. Hardesty is line for a major role beginning in Week 1.
Jerome Harrison is currently "playing behind" rookie Montario Hardesty in Browns OTAs.
Keep in mind that this was one of Harrison's first offseason practices; he only recently began working out since signing a restricted free agent "injury waiver." Still, Hardesty has been running with the starters since the middle of last month. It's especially noteworthy that Eric Mangini is not deferring to the veteran. Hardesty is line for a major role beginning in Week 1.
KellysHeroes
Footballguy
I was so happy I got this
* gave up Year 2010 Draft Pick 1.13;Year 2010 Draft Pick 2.12
* NO MA'AM gave up Harrison, Jerome CLE RB; Year 2010 Draft Pick 5.10
1.13 13. NO MA'AM Weatherspoon, Sean ATL LB ® Sat May 15 7:18:06 a.m. ET 2010
2.12 26. NO MA'AM Williams, Damian TEN WR ® Sun May 16 12:03:02 p.m. ET 2010
* gave up Year 2010 Draft Pick 1.13;Year 2010 Draft Pick 2.12
* NO MA'AM gave up Harrison, Jerome CLE RB; Year 2010 Draft Pick 5.10
1.13 13. NO MA'AM Weatherspoon, Sean ATL LB ® Sat May 15 7:18:06 a.m. ET 2010
2.12 26. NO MA'AM Williams, Damian TEN WR ® Sun May 16 12:03:02 p.m. ET 2010
Anthony Borbely
Footballguy
This has RBBC written all over it.
cr8f
Footballguy
Holmgren traded up for Hardesty and he is getting the most team 1 reps even after Harrison started practicing.
He may be looking for another Shaun Alexander. He has Joe Thomas can he get a Hutch?
Holmgren is now in charge?
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baconisgood
Footballguy
Jennings was just a camp body who got a shot due to injuries- he has similar production to the broken down Lewis last year and will be a camp body/practice squad guy this year.James Davis is a 6th rounder who lost his rookie season to injury who really only got his shot because Harrison was injured during camp.Hillis- who knows what they want from him. Could be an interesting player in the wildcat with Cribbs- they already have a good FB in Vickers so I imagine that when they acquired him they envisioned a decent amount of carries at least.It seems to be clearly a case of Hardesty V Harrison for the bulk of the carries. My best guess is that Hardesty gets the most carries if everyone is healthy, the Browns traded up to get him- if they simply wanted a guy to take the load off of Harrison this year they could have gone with Hillis/Davis/Jennings + a 5th rounder. Instead they traded into the 2nd round for this guy which to me says "we like him". Cleveland RBs had > 400 attempts + 50 receptions last year and Hardesty could be in line for 220-250 touches with Harrison getting 3rd down duties as well as 120-150 carries for ~150-180 touches. Hillis and Vickers would well be vultures at the goaline. James Davis Practice Squad, Jenning cut.
Didn't work out so well in Seattle, yet for whatever reason, the media completely gives him a free pass on that whole fiasco.
BuckeyeArt
Footballguy
Two things:1. Mangini (or Holmgren) hasn't normally used a RBBC.2. Even with a RBBC, both Hardesty and Harrison could be fantasy relevant. Last year, Cleveland RBs had 471 touches. That's not enough for both to be relevant One would have to be the clear lead to really be useful. But, over the last half of the season when they went 4-4, they had 261 touches, a full season pace of 522. Over the last 4 games (4-0), they had 157, a pace of 628. In the games that Lewis was out (7), they had 245, a 16 game pace of 560. Over 500 touches and close to 550 would be enough touches to produce 2 fantasy relevant RBs.
Dr. Octopus
Footballguy
Well he did ghet them to a Superbowl and an additional NFC championship game while in Seattle - and what have they done since?
Zoomanji
Footballguy
When comparing the two (Hardesty and Harrison), and which will be the "bell cow" (if either), you have to look at how the coach views rookies (as a poster above mentioned) and also Harrison. Mangini may or may not like to work rookie RBs. Personally, I do not think he ever had a rookie close to the caliber at RB as Hardesty in his coaching tenure (you could make a case for James Davis, but due to injury, we never got to see that come to fruition). Hardesty is the wilcard here. We do know about Harrison; setting records the first chance he was given the ball on a consistent basis. What we do not know is why it took so long for him to get the chance. Harrison had two separate regimes keep him on the bench (rumors due to poor pass blocking). The pass blocking may be the case, but if a guy snaps off 200 yards and you are questioning his ability (as the Browns are), I think there is something else to it (maybe attitude). Sports in general are filled with unknown answers (some wonder why Mewelde Moore has never been given a chance). In hockey, Peter Laviollette took the Islanders to the playoffs (only coach to do so in 15+ years) only to get fired and won a Stanley Cup with the Hurricanes, only to get fired two years later and now has a third mediocre franchise in the Finals...why is he not a coaching God??
I digress, but the bottom line is that the only thing we can go off of here is pass blocking. If Hardesty can pick it up, he may find himself in a 2 or even 3 down role; If he can't, then the Browns will go with Harrison and maybe Hardesty in short yardage situations (although to my knowledge Harrison did not hurt himself there). One of my friends used to be a writer for the Plain Dealer and even wrote a book about the Browns..In '08 even he (and he has many connections) was dumbfounded as to why the team rarely used Harrison. Something else is there with this guy and I am not sure we will ever know.
I digress, but the bottom line is that the only thing we can go off of here is pass blocking. If Hardesty can pick it up, he may find himself in a 2 or even 3 down role; If he can't, then the Browns will go with Harrison and maybe Hardesty in short yardage situations (although to my knowledge Harrison did not hurt himself there). One of my friends used to be a writer for the Plain Dealer and even wrote a book about the Browns..In '08 even he (and he has many connections) was dumbfounded as to why the team rarely used Harrison. Something else is there with this guy and I am not sure we will ever know.
I saw Mike Holmgren on NFL Total Access last night and Rich asked him about M.Hardesty and the RB situation. Holmgren said how much he liked Hardesty as a person and a player and that he would get every opportunity to play. But then he said something to the effect that "Harrison finished last season with a bang and he is the guy."
Not sure what to take from that, other than they certainly don't seem to be writing Harrison off.
Not sure what to take from that, other than they certainly don't seem to be writing Harrison off.
identikit
Footballguy
Saw the same thing.I think Harrison will (at least initially) gets the bulk of the work.
Iwannabeacowboybaby!
Footballguy
It's what you and I would think if we were taking over the team. You'd be a fool to completely dismiss what Harrison did at the end of last season. However, he kind of came out of nowhere, at least for me in the amount of success he had down the stretch so they also drafted a RB in the draft to make sure they have the RB spot covered. Out of what he said I don't think we can determine that 1 guy is going to get the bulk of the work for this season because he probably can't even say that right now but just as I mentioned all along, Hardesty is going to have to be REAL GOOD to keep Harrison off the field. Many people fall in love with rookies and their potential for long term and they forget about or don't want to think about guys like Harrison or Arian Foster, it's not sexy. I'd be much more inclinced to draft Harrison and make Hardesty prove me wrong than the other way around.
