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Jesse Williams speech at BET Awards (1 Viewer)

McGarnicle said:
It's becoming evident that many of them just hate/distrust white people period, and aren't looking for any kind of reconciliation or common understanding. My stance is, I do my best to be open and friendly to everyone I meet until they give me a reason not to be. I don't participate in oppression. I'm just one guy trying to navigate this world like anyone. If someone wants to tell me that's not enough, and I'll never "get it" because I could never understand what it's like to be black in America...okay, I can accept that, but I guess that means I'm the enemy no matter what, just because I'm white? So, you don't really want me to try to be friendly and accepting because obviously I'm being phony and should just admit it already? I don't get the ultimate point that is being made, other than you hate me because I'm white. That's the message I'm getting from a lot of the BLM crowd. It's not just about police reform, or raising awareness. It's the black equivalent of the Trump movement -- a safe space for being openly racist.
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It's a mindset that nearly impossible to change.  All you can do is treat others like you would want to be treated.   Their response is completely out of your control.  Let your actions speak for themselves. 

 
Andy Dufresne said:
It's tough not to. 

Reminds me of a story my dad tells about when he was in the Air Force in the early 60's and felt like he had made friends with some of the black guys he was stationed with. That is, until he overheard those same guys at the bar talking about going into town to "kill whitey".

Still, whenever I start to feel like this, I remember this exchange from Gettysburg

Chamberlain: Tell me something, Buster... what do you think of Negroes?

Kilrain: Well, if you mean the race... I don't really know. This is not a thing to be ashamed of. The thing is, you cannot judge a race. Any man who judges by the group is a pea-wit.
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On Monday I had some guy turn around on an escalator and yell, "#### you white boy" and flip me off.  I had never seen him before in my life.  Strange, but I don't think I even batted an eye.  Just went about my business.

Kind of sad.

 
tdoss said:
Now I've got a handful of black friends posting this nonsense:

Statue of Liberty was a Black Woman Until Racist America Rejected It

Inspired by this thread...I called one out on the blatantly falsehoods behind this meme (or whatever you want to call it).

I mean, for God's sake...the image on the left is of a statue that was made in 2007 and is in the Caribbean.

It's constant...I don't know where these things are coming from but there seems to be an endless supply of race-baiting untruths being shared and posted.

She stood her ground a bit and said she can't find it right now but remembers a documentary that backs up the story of the Statue originally being a black woman.

I just told her that some of that may be true...although I can't seem to find a reputable source to cite on it...but to post this with that image on the left and act like it's truth is obviously misleading at best and is just another tool meant to stir up racial discord.


Not that I think she created it or even posted it trying to start static...I just think she bought into it and posted it to hopefully "educate" others...what bothers me is not the message, it's the fact that people don't even take a second to research it.  All the while, telling others, "research this...I did...and it's true!"
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Welcome to the wonderful world of group-think Internet morons.

 
jonessed said:
On Monday I had some guy turn around on an escalator and yell, "#### you white boy" and flip me off.  I had never seen him before in my life.  Strange, but I don't think I even batted an eye.  Just went about my business.

Kind of sad.
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:lmao:

That story is kind of sad because everyone knows black people don't use escalators. 

Also based on your posts here, I'm guessing you probably deserved it.  :bye:

 
tdoss said:
Now I've got a handful of black friends posting this nonsense:

Statue of Liberty was a Black Woman Until Racist America Rejected It

Inspired by this thread...I called one out on the blatantly falsehoods behind this meme (or whatever you want to call it).

I mean, for God's sake...the image on the left is of a statue that was made in 2007 and is in the Caribbean.

It's constant...I don't know where these things are coming from but there seems to be an endless supply of race-baiting untruths being shared and posted.

She stood her ground a bit and said she can't find it right now but remembers a documentary that backs up the story of the Statue originally being a black woman.

I just told her that some of that may be true...although I can't seem to find a reputable source to cite on it...but to post this with that image on the left and act like it's truth is obviously misleading at best and is just another tool meant to stir up racial discord.


Not that I think she created it or even posted it trying to start static...I just think she bought into it and posted it to hopefully "educate" others...what bothers me is not the message, it's the fact that people don't even take a second to research it.  All the while, telling others, "research this...I did...and it's true!"
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Doesn't look like it's going to end well...she's getting all in her feelings about my post and is all upset.

Oh well...probably gonna lose another friend on FB.

 
@tdoss

Google "Statue of Liberty black woman in chains".

https://www.nps.gov/stli/learn/historyculture/black-statue-of-liberty.htm

Conclusions

·[SIZE=7pt]  [/SIZE]Was the original model for the Statue of Liberty a black woman?

Most versions of the Black Statue of Liberty rumor refer to a cast (c. 1870) of a no longer extant maquette owned by the Museum of the City of New York as proof that “the original model” for the Statue of Liberty was a black woman. The temporal proximity and aesthetic overlap between Bartholdi’s Egyptian proposal and the Statue of Liberty project, and the preliminary nature of the statue's study models, makes it impossible to rule out an 1870-71 Liberty model that has design origins in Bartholdi’s drawings of black Egyptian women in 1856. Based on the evidence, the connection is coincidental to the development of the Statue of Liberty under Laboulaye’ patronage. We found no corroborating evidence that Edouard Laboulaye or Auguste Bartholdi intended to depict Liberty as a black woman. Laboulaye’s intent was to present a monument that would commemorate the fulfillment of America’s commitment to universal liberty established by the Declaration of Independence, and set an example for other nations. Liberty depicted as a freedwoman would have represented his strong anti-slavery convictions, but it would not have fulfilled this broader vision.

·[SIZE=7pt]  [/SIZE]Is the Statue of Liberty a monument to the end of slavery in the United States?

The Statue of Liberty would never have been conceived or built if its principal French and American advocates had not been active abolitionists who understood slavery as the cause of the Civil War and its end as the realization of the promise of liberty for all as codified in the Declaration of Independence. But the Statue of Liberty was not intended entirely as a monument to the end of slavery. The statue’s form after June 1871 clearly embodies Laboulaye’s views on the two-part realization, in 1776 and 1864, of his ideal of liberty. The centennial of the American Revolution was significant to the French sponsors because the Civil War ended slavery and preserved the Union at a time when the France’s future was still uncertain. For the American republicans, it was a timely opportunity to erect a monument to their efforts and worldview. Laboulaye and his French colleagues also wished to send a political message back to France. Bartholdi cast the project in the broadest terms, hoping to encourage additional commissions.
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tdoss said:
Doesn't look like it's going to end well...she's getting all in her feelings about my post and is all upset.

Oh well...probably gonna lose another friend on FB.
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This is why I don't believe in "The Dialogue on Race" that politicians, the media, and academics are always calling for.

First, by "dialogue" those parties really mean a "monologue" on race where white people are lectured to.  So, in other words, more of the same of the past half century.  And how far has that gotten us on race relations given that polling and anecdotal evidence have shown race relations deteriorating the past few years rather than getting better?

Second, any attempt at an actual dialogue almost always ends in hurt feelings, defensiveness, and allegations of racism.  We see that in this thread.  Jesse Williams puts forth a view that, in his mind and in the mind of many black people, is a fair and accurate reflection of present day America.  White people then get defensive because they see the present situation in a completely different light.  Then tdoss weighs in on a race matter in what he believes to be a fair and accurate manner, and his black friend gets defensive and hurt.  Actual dialogue seems to cause more tension, not less, specifically because both sides see the world so differently.  Dialogue makes it apparent how far apart the two sides are in their thinking, and apparent that circle will never be squared.

I have a lot of personal experience on that second point.  Here was one from last yer that cracked me up.  During the debate whether the United States should accept Syrian refugees an acquaintance, a black guy, posted a Facebook status labeling any people objecting to taking in the refugees as xenophobic racists.  You know, the usual stuff.  His post quickly became a circle jerk of groupthink on the issue, all black commenters.  I figured, "What the hell?  Somebody has to be bold enough to offer a contrary opinion."  So I chimed in that we should accept some refugees, but there are legitimate concerns regarding the refugees so it's unfair to label anyone expressing those concerns as a xenophobic racist.  When he asked what those concerns were I shared with him several articles from both European and American officials showing the inability to properly vet refugees, the link to terrorism from some refugees, and multi-generational assimilation issues that they've had in Europe.  Long story short, the whole thing got derailed because his black friends saw my profile pic and kept interjecting that white people are the greatest terrorists.

So even if you have some people on either side that benefit from a dialogue, you'll never have a critical mass.  

Talk sports and hot Asian chicks with your black male friends.  Those are the great unifiers.

 
If two weeks ago Jesse Williams had been cast as Malcolm X, in a major Hollywood production, their would have been a black twitter backlash.

 
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jonessed said:
On Monday I had some guy turn around on an escalator and yell, "#### you white boy" and flip me off.  I had never seen him before in my life.  Strange, but I don't think I even batted an eye.  Just went about my business.

Kind of sad.
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You probably just didn't hear his first request to, "play that funky music," and he was frustrated.  Can't blame him, really. Sometimes you just really want to lay down the boogie. 

 
Mrs. Eephus has re-posted a Malcolm X quote on her Facebook.  The Helter Skelter clock takes one more tick forward.

 
Just cause I'm not sure where else to post this...guess I'll put it here.

So a handful of my black friends were debating last night on fb about how the Dallas cop shooting is just some racist KKK member or "the gov't" trying to make BLM movement look bad or shut it down.

Afterwards, I see a few others talking about how that last shooter is reportedly white.

Then...more come back to that original post citing those reports and commending the first dude for posting about the conspiracy along with a few "see's" and one even asking how did he KNOW?

It continued to spiral down the drain this morning.

A few posting asking, "How can they support cops getting shot when they won't support us getting shot. #karma"

 
tdoss said:
Just cause I'm not sure where else to post this...guess I'll put it here.

So a handful of my black friends were debating last night on fb about how the Dallas cop shooting is just some racist KKK member or "the gov't" trying to make BLM movement look bad or shut it down.

Afterwards, I see a few others talking about how that last shooter is reportedly white.

Then...more come back to that original post citing those reports and commending the first dude for posting about the conspiracy along with a few "see's" and one even asking how did he KNOW?

It continued to spiral down the drain this morning.

A few posting asking, "How can they support cops getting shot when they won't support us getting shot. #karma"
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Some friends you got there

 
Oh...forgot to add...as if it being "the gov't" wasn't a big enough stretch to inflame people...the reports were also peppered with, "he walked right up and shot one of those cops point blank...cause the cop's were wrongfully profiling for a black man".

 
DallasDMac said:
If your goal is to convince me I made a smart choice avoiding FB, then well done!
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It's a mess.

What's weird is I'm not seeing arguments or debates too much.

It's mostly a bunch of different walks of life posting various inflammatory meme's and their respective groups liking the posts and supporting their specific point of view.

Not too many are actually "crossing lines" and attempting any dialogue.

I think...for the most part...people have retained their friends list as a bunch of like-minded individuals and either ignore or have blocked the differing opinions to the point where they only really get the one point of view all the way down their page.

It really is a trippy reality.

 
Imo, the divide is so deep that it's not worth the discussion. Multiply that by as much as you want when referring to FB. Nothing good could come from that. 

 
tdoss said:
It's a mess.

What's weird is I'm not seeing arguments or debates too much.

It's mostly a bunch of different walks of life posting various inflammatory meme's and their respective groups liking the posts and supporting their specific point of view.

Not too many are actually "crossing lines" and attempting any dialogue.

I think...for the most part...people have retained their friends list as a bunch of like-minded individuals and either ignore or have blocked the differing opinions to the point where they only really get the one point of view all the way down their page.

It really is a trippy reality.
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I have to ask then, in all seriousness. Why do you bother? I assume you have so me friends, or more likely family, that don't fall in to this category?

 
tdoss said:
It's a mess.

What's weird is I'm not seeing arguments or debates too much.

It's mostly a bunch of different walks of life posting various inflammatory meme's and their respective groups liking the posts and supporting their specific point of view.

Not too many are actually "crossing lines" and attempting any dialogue.

I think...for the most part...people have retained their friends list as a bunch of like-minded individuals and either ignore or have blocked the differing opinions to the point where they only really get the one point of view all the way down their page.

It really is a trippy reality.
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My wife complains about it daily, apparently she's shocked that some of the 250+ people that make up her extended family support Trump. So some 70-year-old aunt reposts an anti-Hillary meme and the day is ruined. I tell her every day, stop with the damn Facebook, it's more aggravation than it's worth. Nope, god forbid we miss a rugrat video. Oh look, little Madison took a dump that looks like Ke$ha! Like! 

 
tdoss said:
It's a mess.

What's weird is I'm not seeing arguments or debates too much.

It's mostly a bunch of different walks of life posting various inflammatory meme's and their respective groups liking the posts and supporting their specific point of view.

Not too many are actually "crossing lines" and attempting any dialogue.

I think...for the most part...people have retained their friends list as a bunch of like-minded individuals and either ignore or have blocked the differing opinions to the point where they only really get the one point of view all the way down their page.

It really is a trippy reality.
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Yep, I'm seeing the exact same type of posts among my numerous black Facebook friends.  A common motif among the posts is an admonition to their white friends that starts with "If I don't see you commenting or posting about this war against black men then...." and ends with a variation of  "... that tells me who you are", "...that tells me that you're part of the problem", or "... defriend me now!"

It's an anger driven, Us vs. Them mentality that demands that you see the world as they do or be viewed as the enemy.  Oh well, I won't be pressured into a position that I believe is contradicted by the facts.

It's obvious that dialogue is not wanted.  Just full acceptance or acquiescence to their viewpoint.  It's not like you can reason with someone who is so emotional anyway, and it's not dialogue will ever change the fact that the two sides see facts and the world so differently.  Anyone who actually believes that dialogue will resolve such profound perspective and cultural differences is horribly naive.

I also resent the one way nature of the racial "dialogue" and societal pressure on these racial issues..  If you look at the last few days we had three police officers who were active participants in the death of two black men.  Even if you accept that the the killings were unjustified, the officers did not leave their house that day with the intent to kill back men.  And, only because it's relevant to the response we're seeing, one of the three officers was Asian.

Also within the past few days we've had two black shooters whose targets and own admissions show that they set out that day specifically to kill white people.  The Dallas shooter said that he wanted to kill white cops specifically but also white people in general.  That black man who set out to kill  shot eleven officers, killing five.  Some of the deceased and hot look Mestizo, but presumably most were white like the shooters intent.

Similarly, in Tennessee, we had a black shooter who set out to kill white people.  He shot four white people, Killing one.

By any honest and objective measure the black shooters evidenced far greater interracial animosity and violence.  They specifically set out to kill white people, and registered a far greater shot and kill total than the two police incidents that registered fewer shot, dead, and didn't involve the open and overt expression of racism.  Despite this the same black friends who were insisting that their white friends must weigh in on the alleged war against black men have been deafeningly silent with regard to the black shooters specifically setting out on a personal war against white people.  So why must white people speak out against alleged racism against black people, but black people don't have to speak out against overt racism against white people?  The double standard is obvious.

We can also see the pressure on white Facebook commenters to conform to this societal double standard.  The black commenters openly express their rage against the killings of black men with Us vs. Them rhetoric, but if white commenters even dare to post about the Dallas shooting they almost always talk about coming together and almost never mention the racial angle of the shootings, just the police angle.  Many white Facebook users probably do have racial feelings regarding the Dallas shootings, but they're too intimidated into sharing those views because they know that in present day society there is a prevailing thought that any white person overtly expressingly racial feelings is racist.  One group feels incredibly open to and is even encouraged to share racial anger and concerns, the other group feels incredible societal pressure to suppress their racial anger and concerns.  

These double standards exacerbate a growing tension.  Some people will even view this post as racist which just supports my point.

 
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