Job offer (ETA: that never was), conflicted on what to do. (1 Viewer)

[fantasycurse42]

I'm going on 6 years at my current company, the growth has been enormous here and my experience is looked at as very valuable to a younger/smaller startupy kinda company. My current responsibilities are only for myself and 4 others. 

I'm extremely comfortable, my money is close to guaranteed, & my work/life balance probably couldn't be better. With that being said, I wouldn't mind earning more money.

A company I have never heard of reached out to me about a National VP role, where I would be a member on the Senior Management Team and 3rd in command behind the CEO & COO. This company currently has 100 employees and not to long ago received about $60MM in investments. As a member of the SMT, I'd be directly involved in conversations with our investors, but furthermore, I'd have a team of about 35-40 people under me. The overwhelming majority of this company is mid 30's or younger.

I had an interview with the CEO/COO and it looks like they're going to make an offer as we have recently started discussing compensation. The guaranteed money in year 1 would be slightly under what I'm currently taking with potential to earn at least 50% more. The equity would represent an opportunity at life-changing money, but I am a little skeptical this company will ever recognize anything that would make that a reality. After the first year, who knows. 

I'm yet to get any advice IRL that has had any real impact - maybe some internet strangers can help? 

 

[Psychopav]

I don't know what you should do but it does sound like if you took the chance and things didn't pan out, you have marketable skills to help find another role quickly.

 

[The Future Champs]

Seems odd that a company you've never heard of would reach out to someone they don't know and offer a giant step up in responsibility.  

- gut reaction

 

[-OZ-]

Seems odd that a company you've never heard of would reach out to someone they don't know and offer a giant step up in responsibility.  

- gut reaction

That's my thought unless he recently hired a headhunter or something. 

 

[doowain]

Confused.  Thread title states "Job offer" but then you say "it looks like they're going to make an offer".

Since you are asking what to do, I'd suggest wait to make a decision until you actually get an offer.

 

[need2know]

I would stay with what you have.  More money is not as important as what you already have imo

 

[fred_1_15301]

Agree with need2know.  You're already set for life and have a great work/life balance.  I'm in a similar boat and I can't imagine ever wanting to replace the flexibility I currently have.  

Why do you need more money?  This can't just be about money, right?  

 

[mquinnjr]

I would stay with what you have.  More money is not as important as what you already have imo

Yeah never lose this perspective. Headhunters come out of the woodwork for what I do (FP&A). It's not because I'm so great, it's a lot of turnover and they can make money off of sourcing me. My work life balance is not great, but that's the take it or leave it for big business, I make it work. I'm very appreciative of what I have, and like known quantities. Devil I know vs. don't. I have a defined benefit pension, which is a unicorn I'm 99.999% I can't replace financially at a new employer. I always PV the value of it and my total comp as a whole when this stuff comes up. The future potential employer always dangles the carrot of more "now" money. I'll likely never take it, I know how good I have it and they can't make that up unless the day comes when vesting is frozen or they want to promote me 2-3 tiers, and trust me I'm not that special so unlikely. 

Never take the carrot unless you really, really wanted it already and appreciate what you already have is all I can offer. Best of luck.

 

[RokNRole]

I think you should get bent

 

[NewlyRetired]

I would stay with what you have.  (the hope for) More money is not as important as what you already have imo

I added in a little extra to your point.

 

[Slapdash]

Will this mean less time with the wife and kids (assuming you have them)?

 

[Phil Elliott]

That is a big jump in responsibility (and accountability). You probably will be working 20 hour days. Just from this thread it sounds like you have a nice situation. I would take my time and look for another position if you really are interested in a new job. You don't want to settle for a dispatcher job just to pay the monthly bills.

 

[Sullie]

Years ago I was at a job I hated and I was interviewing for jobs.  Once place made me an offer, it was solid and an increase over what I was making.  I met with everyone, it was going fine and then I met with the CEO on my 2nd interview and my gut told me "I don't like this guy, something's not right."  And even though I hated the job I was in and I wanted out desperately (more than words can say) I passed on the job.  I took a job with another company, that was 20 years ago and I'm still with that company.  6 months after I accepted the job at the company I'm at I read in the newspaper that company couldn't make payroll and went out of business because they lost a government contract.  Go with your gut!

 

[shadyridr]

One thing for sure is I wouldnt accept an offer if it was for LESS money then you are making now. Potential Shmotential

 

[Sullie]

One thing for sure is I wouldnt accept an offer if it was for LESS money then you are making now. Potential Shmotential

This I agree with 100% - potential almost always turns into excuses in these situations.  "Spending is up, I'm sorry, costs are crazy, once things settle, it will be better - you'll see."  "Ah gee we're really sorry, sales just weren't where we thought they would be, they'll be better next quarter." 

 

[fantasycurse42]

I don't know what you should do but it does sound like if you took the chance and things didn't pan out, you have marketable skills to help find another role quickly.

Most likely, but I doubt I'd be as happy as the role I'm in now.

Seems odd that a company you've never heard of would reach out to someone they don't know and offer a giant step up in responsibility.  

- gut reaction

Do you use Linkedin? I work in technology & media, I get hit up on Linkedin by a recruiter weekly, sometimes multiple times a week. Tons of companies I've never heard of, doesn't mean they aren't quality companies.

Confused.  Thread title states "Job offer" but then you say "it looks like they're going to make an offer".

Since you are asking what to do, I'd suggest wait to make a decision until you actually get an offer.

Recruiter reached out to me this morning (met with CEO yesterday afternoon) and started discussing compensation. "MR FC, XYZ & ZYX both loved your energy, experience, etc. I know you mentioned you were earning xyz, this what we're thinking... yada yada yada"

Offer is coming, probably today/tomorrow/this week

I would stay with what you have.  More money is not as important as what you already have imo

I feel like this, but I also don't want to miss what could be a great opportunity to make a healthy career advancement.

Agree with need2know.  You're already set for life and have a great work/life balance.  I'm in a similar boat and I can't imagine ever wanting to replace the flexibility I currently have.  

Why do you need more money?  This can't just be about money, right?  

BC my wife spends it faster than I make it. Actually, as I'm writing this, I realize, she'll do the same no matter how much I make... FML.

Yeah never lose this perspective. Headhunters come out of the woodwork for what I do (FP&A). It's not because I'm so great, it's a lot of turnover and they can make money off of sourcing me. My work life balance is not great, but that's the take it or leave it for big business, I make it work. I'm very appreciative of what I have, and like known quantities. Devil I know vs. don't. I have a defined benefit pension, which is a unicorn I'm 99.999% I can't replace financially at a new employer. I always PV the value of it and my total comp as a whole when this stuff comes up. The future potential employer always dangles the carrot of more "now" money. I'll likely never take it, I know how good I have it and they can't make that up unless the day comes when vesting is frozen or they want to promote me 2-3 tiers, and trust me I'm not that special so unlikely. 

Never take the carrot unless you really, really wanted it already and appreciate what you already have is all I can offer. Best of luck.

I've passed on this before, but this is now being coupled with career advancement.

 

[fred_1_15301]

One thing for sure is I wouldnt accept an offer if it was for LESS money then you are making now. Potential Shmotential

I think it depends on a lot of factors.  It's not just about money.  The benefits, stock options, pension, flexibility and room for growth may be better at the new job.  In that case, I would consider taking a lower salary (especially since the new salary is still very good).

 

[mquinnjr]

Go with your gut then if you think you're ready. Internet strangers can't determine that for you. If it's what you want and the money's right, who are we to tell you different, right?

 

[fantasycurse42]

I think it depends on a lot of factors.  It's not just about money.  The benefits, stock options, pension, flexibility and room for growth may be better at the new job.  In that case, I would consider taking a lower salary (especially since the new salary is still very good).

These potentially could be worth a lot of money. I wouldn't start counting it now, but I can see the path. 

 

[belljr]

I haven't logged into linked in years and my account doesn't work  and I still get emails from jack holes I don't know asking me to be their friend.

So awful

Actually they say my email doesn't even exist

 

[fred_1_15301]

These potentially could be worth a lot of money. I wouldn't start counting it now, but I can see the path. 

Yes the company I'm at gives me RSUs every year making it damn near impossible for me to ever leave without taking an overall "pay cut".  

 

[sbonomo]

Have you seen the f/s of the company (if you are going to be #3 on the management team this is a reasonable request).  what does it take to get the extra 50%?  Do you mind putting your head down and earning the extra 50% (60-70 hour weeks)?  Is the extra 50% worth the extra time spent at work?  I think you really need to think about these questions to determine the risk reward of taking something like this one.

i can tell you from experience that you need to get your #####es spending under control ASAP.  It is only going to get worse!

 

[fantasycurse42]

Will this mean less time with the wife and kids (assuming you have them)?

They were honest, for my first 6 months the hours will be unpleasant. I watched my current company go from small and unorganized, to large and very efficient - they're looking for someone not only to lead a team, but put infrastructure in place... This will be labor intensive and I'll need to hire a new VP of Operations to help do this (their current operations guy is way in over his head... I didn't say this at the meeting, but it is fairly obvious). Also, more travel, which I don't really mind. Mostly 1-2 day trips probably 2-3x a month.

That is a big jump in responsibility (and accountability). You probably will be working 20 hour days. Just from this thread it sounds like you have a nice situation. I would take my time and look for another position if you really are interested in a new job. You don't want to settle for a dispatcher job just to pay the monthly bills.

I'm very passive on job seeking. I hear from recruiters all the time, the only calls I even take are ones with a big jump in responsibility.

One thing for sure is I wouldnt accept an offer if it was for LESS money then you are making now. Potential Shmotential

The difference is negligible - I can prob get them up too. Year 1 isn't really my concern, TBH.

Years ago I was at a job I hated and I was interviewing for jobs.  Once place made me an offer, it was solid and an increase over what I was making.  I met with everyone, it was going fine and then I met with the CEO on my 2nd interview and my gut told me "I don't like this guy, something's not right."  And even though I hated the job I was in and I wanted out desperately (more than words can say) I passed on the job.  I took a job with another company, that was 20 years ago and I'm still with that company.  6 months after I accepted the job at the company I'm at I read in the newspaper that company couldn't make payroll and went out of business because they lost a government contract.  Go with your gut!

I have no strong leaning one way or the other. Just very conflicted here. I made a stupid chart and tried to assign points to different areas (pay, work/life, opportunity, career, comfort, etc. etc.). It came out fairly even

 

[fantasycurse42]

I have logged into linked in years and my account doesn't work  and I still get emails from jack holes I don't know asking me to be their friend.

So awful

You're using it wrong. Linkedin is a recruiters best friend - if used properly, a good opportunity can come knocking on your door. 

 

[belljr]

You're using it wrong. Linkedin is a recruiters best friend - if used properly, a good opportunity can come knocking on your door. 

I don't have an account according to linkedin       And I'm not leaving this job until they make me

If i click forgot password it says your email is not on file.

 

[tri-man 47]

I don't believe you've commented on the future opportunities at your current company, where you're very happy.  Is your current job 'dead end?'  Will you be bored in 3-5 years?  If so, then moving now could make sense.  But if the future is bright with your current job, I don't see why you'd want to chase a number of unknown variables.

That said, don't live life with regrets.  Don't wake up in five years wishing you'd have been bolder.

 

[flranger]

I'll only say when I make big decisions, I set a number of mornings that I wake up and have to come to a consistent yes/no, etc.  Best to make decisions based on what you think when you wake up with a clear head and have not been impacted by the days events.

 

[El Floppo]

any way of parlaying the external offer into an internal one? raise, promotion, whatever at the current gig...

 

[skol asylum]

Take the job and give me your old one.

 

[Politician Spock]

Never do a job if the only reason to do it is more money. I worked a very well paying job, but the stress of it took a toll on my health. I would give all the extra money back if I could have my health back. 

 

[fantasycurse42]

I don't believe you've commented on the future opportunities at your current company, where you're very happy.  Is your current job 'dead end?'  Will you be bored in 3-5 years?  If so, then moving now could make sense.  But if the future is bright with your current job, I don't see why you'd want to chase a number of unknown variables.

That said, don't live life with regrets.  Don't wake up in five years wishing you'd have been bolder.

So there is a plus/minus with the above and these are both important pieces of the equation. 

Minus - not a lot of growth for me. My boss is very happy and I don't see him going anywhere, if he doesn't, not much advancement for me. 

Plus - I love my boss. I doubt I'll ever have a relationship with any boss like I currently do. He is my boy, we text out of the office on non-work stuff pretty frequently, we shoot the #### more than we talk work, he never gives me ####, and I always deliver what is asked for. Having such an awesome relationship with my boss is going to be hard to let go of. 

 

[fantasycurse42]

any way of parlaying the external offer into an internal one? raise, promotion, whatever at the current gig...

My company unfortunately does not play that game. 

 

[El Floppo]

My company unfortunately does not play that game. 

if you were to seriously consider leaving, they wouldn't try to keep you by countering an offer?

 

[fred_1_15301]

if you were to seriously consider leaving, they wouldn't try to keep you by countering an offer?

Of course they would.

 

[fantasycurse42]

Never do a job if the only reason to do it is more money. I worked a very well paying job, but the stress of it took a toll on my health. I would give all the extra money back if I could have my health back. 

It's more career advancement. Having experience running an entire sales team, while organizing infrastructure, then putting operations underneath me as well, it is a big jump in responsibility.

At the end of year 1, it is conceivable that I'll have 60-75 people under my umbrella. I currently have 4, plus me.  

 

[fantasycurse42]

if you were to seriously consider leaving, they wouldn't try to keep you by countering an offer?

They do not do that. Maybe at the Senior Management level (which honestly I'm not sure of), but for at least 99.7% of us, you come with another offer, you should be prepared to leave. Compensation for the year is set at annual reviews, and from my understanding, it does not change until the following year. 

Also, this goes beyond money for me. Work/life balance versus career advancement (possibly).

 

[Politician Spock]

It's more career advancement. Having experience running an entire sales team, while organizing infrastructure, then putting operations underneath me as well, it is a big jump in responsibility.

At the end of year 1, it is conceivable that I'll have 60-75 people under my umbrella. I currently have 4, plus me.  

Are you advancing in your career for the sake of advancing in your career? Don't just assume that's a good thing. If you find the next stage of your career is so stressful that it's destroying your health, you may find you can't go back because you're "over qualified".

 

[fantasycurse42]

Are you advancing in your career for the sake of advancing in your career? Don't just assume that's a good thing. If you find the next stage of your career is so stressful that it's destroying your health, you may find you can't go back because you're "over qualified".

I earn a comfortable living. If I did what I did for the next 25 years, I could retire in my late 50's with a very nice nest egg, and live without much financial stress in the interim. 

If I advanced from where I am, I could prob chop at least 5 (maybe more) years off of retirement age, have a much larger nest egg, and live an extremely lavish lifestyle. 

I've been in the same role for almost 6 years, IDK, maybe it is time for a change. 

 

[CletiusMaximus]

I would want to understand the nature of current ownership, their exit plan if any, and how your equity vests and fits into that plan.

 

[EYLive]

Why do you need more money?  This can't just be about money, right?  

It's also about internet bragging.

 

[fantasycurse42]

I would want to understand the nature of current ownership, their exit plan if any, and how your equity vests and fits into that plan.

Haven't gone that far into detail - they discussed a sale, an IPO, etc. Sounded like they were TBD on all that, and given the current size of the company, I can understand that. Part of what I would try to negotiate is an accelerated vesting schedule.

 

[fantasycurse42]

Once I have an offer in writing, as crazy as it sounds, the input I would value the most is probably from my boss. Having a relationship where we can speak off the record is invaluable. 

Having a relationship with my boss the way it is is probably my biggest reason for wanting to stay. 

 

[AcerFC]

If you stay with your current job, you can buy Rangers season tickets

If you change, you might be able to buy the luxury box

Seems like a simple answer to me

Seriously though, I would stay. I dont know how you business types do it. Managing risk vs reward. Good luck whatever you do

 

[shadyridr]

Plus - I love my boss. I doubt I'll ever have a relationship with any boss like I currently do. He is my boy, we text out of the office on non-work stuff pretty frequently, we shoot the #### more than we talk work, he never gives me ####, and I always deliver what is asked for. Having such an awesome relationship with my boss is going to be hard to let go of. 

This is how the relationship with my current boss is. He was my friend before he became my boss and Im his best employee. Ive been to bachelor parties and smoked weed with him on a Saturday and delivered top notch work to him on that Monday. I rue the day he is no longer the boss.

 

[Baloney Sandwich]

We all have our own internal calculus regarding what we want out of our careers, it is really up to you to balance that out. While it varies per industry, you absolutely can be less marketable by staying with one company too long. 

Do you feel good about the company and their vision? Will you be giving the right tools to allow you to be successful? Do you think you would enjoying working for your new boss and will he have your back when needed? Will the few years of sacrifice you make now in terms of hours, travel and stress have enough of a chance to pay off handsomely for you and your family?

I will tell you this, if you are able to pull this job off you can right your ticket in terms of career opportunities after 3 years. You can't hit the ball out of the park unless you swing.

 

[fantasycurse42]

While it varies per industry, you absolutely can be less marketable by staying with one company too long. 

I will tell you this, if you are able to pull this job off you can right your ticket in terms of career opportunities after 3 years. You can't hit the ball out of the park unless you swing.

I agree heavily with both of these.

 

[The Future Champs]

It's more career advancement. Having experience running an entire sales team, while organizing infrastructure, then putting operations underneath me as well, it is a big jump in responsibility.

At the end of year 1, it is conceivable that I'll have 60-75 people under my umbrella. I currently have 4, plus me.  

So, they've got 100 employees now, and you'll start off with 30-40 of them under you immediately, with maybe 60-75 within a year.

Has there been a major shakeup within the company recently?   Did a VIP quit unexpectedly?   

 

[The Future Champs]

If this was a game of WW I'd be DOSing that offer pretty hard, obviously.

 

[sbonomo]

Once I have an offer in writing, as crazy as it sounds, the input I would value the most is probably from my boss. Having a relationship where we can speak off the record is invaluable. 

Having a relationship with my boss the way it is is probably my biggest reason for wanting to stay. 

Do not do this he is your boss first and foremost.  We call this a career limiting move.  

 

[fantasycurse42]

So, they've got 100 employees now, and you'll start off with 30-40 of them under you immediately, with maybe 60-75 within a year.

Has there been a major shakeup within the company recently?   Did a VIP quit unexpectedly?   

Large influx of funding. I mentioned earlier, not a ton of experience... Very young company, mainly 35 & under. The CEO/COO are both Ivy guys, but their experience looks to be lacking. They both seemed really smart. 

Also, the COO has been handling multiple VPs, they'd be rolling up to me and me to him.