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Joe Biden Is Not the Safe Choice (1 Viewer)

ren hoek

Footballguy
Joe Biden Is Not the Safe Choice

BY JACK HOLMES

 MAR 3, 2020

Bernie Sanders has been clear about his vision for victory: that he will galvanize a grassroots coalition of working-class people, many of them young people of color and others who have never participated in the political process, to form a new American majority movement. 

But his candidacy presents risk. So far, after four primary contests—two of which were shamefully undemocratic caucuses—this revolution in participation hasn't yet materialized. On Super Tuesday, today, he needs it to happen. It must happen because there is reason to believe Sanders would, as the nominee, lose some ground in the suburban areas where the Democratic Party made such gains in the 2018 midterms with people—particularly white women—who are sick of having a whacked-out game-show host as president but will be scared off by Sanders. He's got to make up the difference by bringing new voters in, and that's the risk: the people Sanders is pledging to bring in do not have a history of voting. The rich old white people do.

On the flip side, however, there's a different kind of risk. After Joe Biden's strong performance in South Carolina, the party's centrist flank has marshaled itself—with the kind of discipline rarely seen in Democratic politics—behind Barack Obama's ex-VP. (In fact, by some reports, Obama himself is eyeing Joe now.) It seemed to all happen at once: Amy Klobuchar dropped out and endorsed him immediately. Pete Buttigieg dropped out and endorsed him by that evening. Beto O'Rourke, the forgotten future-prince of the Democrats, emerged from whichever dusty road he was walking to join all of them at a rally down in Texas. The message was clear: Joe Biden is the Party's Pick.

The field is shaping up quite clearly now.

But there seems to have been a whole lot of reverse-engineered confidence in Biden's candidacy almost overnight. A week ago, Biden was on the South Carolina debate stage bringing the kind of defiant energy you'd expect from someone whose entire career and legacy was on the line. But he still said things like, "150 million people have been killed since 2007" by gun violence. He said things that were...difficult to understand. This has been a constant theme of his appearances throughout the primary. Here's a passage transcribed by Politico in October.

“I think that, uh, the behavior of this administration has awakened, uh, a whole new generation to get engaged in ways that they may not have gotten before,” Biden said, referring to President Donald Trump and the current tumult. “Just like in my generation, when I got out of school that, uh, when Bobby Kennedy and Dr. King had been assassinated in the ’70s, uh, late seven—when I got engaged, um, you know, up to that time, remember the, none of you women will know this, but a couple men may remember, that was a time in the early, late ’60s, and the early ’60s and ’60s, where it was drop out and go to Haight-Ashbury, don’t get engaged, don’t trust anybody over 30. I mean, for real. What happened to them, by the, by the early ’70s, the late ’60s, there was a whole generation that said, ‘Enough.’ The war in Vietnam was underway, and it was—a lot of you served in that war—and, uh, we were fighting like the devil to make sure that there was something dealing with cleaning up the environment, which was only beginning. We were in a position where the women’s movement was just beginning to move. We should have, by now, long before, passed the ERA amendment, but that was another issue …”

This is a problem. It does us no good to overlook the fact that, not unlike the current president, Biden does not always finish his sentences, and it's not always to do with his stutter. He doesn't always make sense. He can have trouble placing people and events within space and time. Last month, he completely made up a story about how he was arrested in South Africa while attempting to visit an imprisoned Nelson Mandela. He is not the same guy who walloped Paul Ryan in a vice-presidential debate, laughing all the way. Time comes for us all. While Sanders is even older than Biden, and just had a heart attack, he does not have these particular struggles. 

It's worth asking if someone who does is the ideal candidate to go up against an incumbent who just yesterday demonstrated he doesn't know what a vaccine does. You're not drawing as much contrast as you might, and one thing Donald Trump has going for him—even as he loses sharpness by the day—is a kind of primal instinct for savage cruelty. Even if he scarcely knows what's going on, he goes into a kind of autopilot where he lashes out aggressively, and it seems to work. Does Biden have what's needed to fight back, and to withstand the relentless assault on himself and his family that is coming his way if he wins the nomination? Biden is a more decent man in every aspect than the man he wants to run against, but it may not help him in a knock-down drag-out contest for the soul of the American republic.

That's particularly true because Biden is running on a Return to Decency and Normalcy platform without a whole lot else to it. Does anyone seriously believe he will go out and fight for a public option on healthcare? Will he seek to reform Wall Street or corporate governance or rein in the monopoly power? Will he champion a Green New Deal, or a plan of similar ambition, to unchain our economy from the fossil fuels that pose such a dire threat to the middle future of human civilization? Will he fight to raise the minimum wage? Will he do battle with Big Pharma to bring down drug prices?

So far, it's hard to see how his campaign will greatly differ from Hillary Clinton's. He has many of the same weaknesses. He is nearly as potent a symbol of the entrenched political class that millions of Americans clearly believe has failed them. His family has sketchy business entanglements in foreign lands. He seems to believe Trump is a kind of freakish accident unrelated to the Republican Party's descent into nationalist unreason over the last few decades, and unrelated to a socioeconomic status quo wherein the very few have gobbled up all the resources and left the many to scrap over what's left. One difference, which Biden has remarked on quite candidly, is that he won't face the misogyny Clinton did. But in general, Biden's hypothesis is that a majority of Americans will be energized to come out and vote for a return to the end of the Obama era, when the president was an emotionally functional adult they didn't have to hear about every gosh darned day.

This is probably true of some of those white suburban voters that Sanders would likely lose. Some folks just don't want to hear about this #### anymore. But there's reason to believe that, when it comes down to it, some of these traditionally Republican voters will "go home"—not stay home—just like they did in 2016. There's at least an outside chance, after all, that Biden will raise their taxes a bit. Moreover, will Biden energize the people whose real wages haven't budged in decades, who are drowning in student or medical debt, whose communities have been ravaged by opioid addiction, who have lost hope that their children will have better lives than they did, to come out and vote? 

Maybe so. Or maybe the Coalition of the Trump-Exhausted that Biden seeks will be enough to get him over the top. It is foolish at this point for anyone to say they know what will happen. They don't. All we have are shadows on the wall. Everyone is electable, and anyone could lose. The idea Beto O'Rourke came out and backed Joe Biden because he is The Answer to America's Deep Structural Problems seems a little farfetched. Just listen to Beto O'Rourke last year.

“You cannot go back to the end of the Obama administration and think that that’s good enough. As much of a horror show as Trump has been—his racism, the disaster of his foreign policy, his punishment of farmers and workers here in this country—we had real problems before Donald Trump became president.”

And when asked if Joe Biden is a return to the past:

“He is. And that cannot be who we are going forward. We’ve got to be bigger, we’ve got to be bolder. We have to set a much higher mark and be relentless in pursuing that.”

If Biden is the nominee in the end, let's hope Beto is right that he was wrong. The Democratic Party has spurned the opportunity to nominate someone who, like Barack Obama in 2008, embodies the kind of change they are promising. We're left with the old folks now, as even the comparatively youthful Elizabeth Warren fades from contention. The future of our world is now dependent on those who largely will not live to see it. Let's hope at least one of them is up to the job of saving it. In the meantime, perhaps we all ought to vote for whomever we think would make the best president.

 
Perhaps the appeal of Biden is that he will return the executive branch to what it was before 2016 in terms of personnel, allies, etc. 

That's where the normalcy comes in. People seem to just want a functioning government. 

 
I have to agree with rock, Biden, for his flaws, presents a chance to return to a semblance of normalcy that's been missing for some time. I know he's another old white guy, I know he's made gaffes questioning his faculties, but he's still better than Trump.

 
He’s a terrible candidate.  No idea how the party is rallying around this guy.  It’s just awful to watch.  His mind is gone.  He’s a hair sniffing freak.  What is the good news?  Oh yeah, he doesn’t want to destroy democracy like Trump.....and black people will vote for him (thanks to the Obama years).

Two terrible options in the primary.  Two terrible options in the general.  Just like 4 years ago.

 
He’s a terrible candidate.  No idea how the party is rallying around this guy.  It’s just awful to watch.  His mind is gone.  He’s a hair sniffing freak.  What is the good news?  Oh yeah, he doesn’t want to destroy democracy like Trump.....and black people will vote for him (thanks to the Obama years).

Two terrible options in the primary.  Two terrible options in the general.  Just like 4 years ago.
Despite what I just said, I agree with you. Two terrible options in the primary. Two terrible options in the general.

Who would you have picked from the Democrats, out of curiosity?

 
Despite what I just said, I agree with you. Two terrible options in the primary. Two terrible options in the general.

Who would you have picked from the Democrats, out of curiosity?
If you’ve spent time in the Mayor Pete thread, you’ll see my comments in there.  But I’m not looking to set off ren, who has been vocal about Pete being the embodiment of all that is evil.

Basically, most of these candidates were abysmal.

 
He’s a terrible candidate.  No idea how the party is rallying around this guy.  It’s just awful to watch.  His mind is gone.  He’s a hair sniffing freak.  What is the good news?  Oh yeah, he doesn’t want to destroy democracy like Trump.....and black people will vote for him (thanks to the Obama years).

Two terrible options in the primary.  Two terrible options in the general.  Just like 4 years ago.
In the Age of Negative Partisanship, Dems are rallying around beating Donald Trump. If they actually accomplish anything in two years, the right wing backlash is going to be monstrous.

 
If you’ve spent time in the Mayor Pete thread, you’ll see my comments in there.  But I’m not looking to set off ren, who has been vocal about Pete being the embodiment of all that is evil.

Basically, most of these candidates were abysmal.
I spent sporadic and late time in the Mayor Pete thread. He earned my support. I did not know your position. ren indeed has been vocal about Mayor Pete. I'll leave it all at that. 

 
This was written before Super Tuesday of course, but the point still applies.  Biden presents major liabilities that are almost synonymous with what cost Hillary the election in 2016.  But even if he didn’t- even if he were mentally stable- can we afford to keep going down the same unsustainable red/blue path in perpetuity, forever, with no end in sight?  Biden is not a departure from Trump- in many ways, they are a continuation of each other.  It’s not enough anymore.  

I was watching Biden’s debate with Sarah Palin the other night.  It’s wild how much more lucid and sharp he is.  As much as I disagree with what he represents from a policy perspective, it’s hard not to respect him in terms of political poise.  He is clearly a different person now.  

 
And as much as I'd like Biden to be the nominee and next president, his speeches and debating have been a disaster. 

 
He is not the same guy who walloped Paul Ryan in a vice-presidential debate, laughing all the way. Time comes for us all. While Sanders is even older than Biden, and just had a heart attack, he does not have these particular struggles. 
Actually I’m a little bit disappointed in this article. I don’t know what will happen, maybe Trump will win. But I thought this piece would be about the relative safety/risk of Biden’s vs Sanders’ positions.  - Unquestionably Biden is engaging in gaffes but he’s not alienating people with them. And Sanders is clearly eloquent and punctilious, but at the same time he didn’t even have the self-awareness to guard his comments on 60 Minutes. Florida is seriously important to this whole enterprise.

 
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If its Bernie v. Biden -> Biden is the safe choice.

If its Biden v. Trump -> Biden is the safe choice.

He was never one of my top picks - but at this stage in the process - Biden is the best option available.  It does no good complaining about what is not available.  There was a process in place for the voters to weigh and measure the candidates - and they have spoken. :shrug:

 
He’s a terrible candidate.  No idea how the party is rallying around this guy.  It’s just awful to watch.  His mind is gone.  He’s a hair sniffing freak.  What is the good news?  Oh yeah, he doesn’t want to destroy democracy like Trump.....and black people will vote for him (thanks to the Obama years).

Two terrible options in the primary.  Two terrible options in the general.  Just like 4 years ago.
If Pete would have gained traction in the south with black voters, I think they would have rallied around him instead of Biden. I think the goal was to stop Bernie and get Bloomberg’s money backing someone other than himself. Biden was the only option. I don’t like it but I’m ok with 4 years of him before getting a better candidate. Let’s be honest, it’s gonna take most of the first 4 years to fix what’s been broken.

 
In 2016 people wanted to stop Hilary.  In 2020, people want to stop Trump. 

Kind of a sad theme for sure.  

 
In 2016 people wanted to stop Hilary.  In 2020, people want to stop Trump. 

Kind of a sad theme for sure.  
Actually Biden and Sanders both are generally liked far more than Hillary or Trump. I do think Trump would like to change that though.

 
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Perhaps the appeal of Biden is that he will return the executive branch to what it was before 2016 in terms of personnel, allies, etc. 

That's where the normalcy comes in. People seem to just want a functioning government. 
I don’t understand- where are people getting a ‘return to normalcy’ from Biden?  Because Biden’s decades of work in Washington led us directly to Trump.  Biden is offering the exact same ideology that voters (and especially non voters) rejected in 2016.  He’s offering the same path to nowhere that we’ve been on for 40 years.  

If the status quo is what you prefer then just say so.  But that’s what Joe Biden is- the same tired ideology that has destroyed this country.  

 
Two thumbs back to the No 1. This reflects narcissism, fantasism, and in the background a coterie of sycophants who constantly praise him, including likely a couple standing next to him in leadership positions in a crisis.

Yes, Biden is not a comp to this.
:lol:  exactly I wrote that last night as well.

When he is thanking someone else he gestures to himself. 

Also incredibly strange to me is this is his “talk about disaster outfit” he wears the exact same thing every time he does these  - bad white shirt, white pants, black windbreaker. So weird.

 
Actually Biden and Sanders both are generally liked far more than Hillary or Trump. I do think Trump would like to change that though.
I don't mean for it to be a popularity contest.  

Just since Obama, people are looking more at beating a certain person than being excited by their candidate.  

I didn't want Trump in 2016, but beats Hillary. 

A lot of people didn't want Biden, but beats Trump.  

Just seems like we're lacking on amazing/great presidential candidates.  Which is...weird.

 
If the status quo is what you prefer then just say so. 
I just did while you were posting. That checking both Clinton's and Trump's ambition is worthy enough, and that a return to things as they were under Bush and Obama, with the realization that we have a huge foreign policy issue in the Middle East with new realities, is something to strive for. It's pretty simple to me: The two directions from the outsiders we've placed at the fore, authoritarianism and socialism, are rather rotten choices. 

 
I don't mean for it to be a popularity contest.  

Just since Obama, people are looking more at beating a certain person than being excited by their candidate.  

I didn't want Trump in 2016, but beats Hillary. 

A lot of people didn't want Biden, but beats Trump.  

Just seems like we're lacking on amazing/great presidential candidates.  Which is...weird.
I actually somewhat agree. If you’re interested in this the article Dinsey posted I think touched on this.

 
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What article?  Sorry I scrolled back up but don't see what you're talking about
It's in the "Rachel Bitecofer" thread. 

And JM I'll agree further that I think we've been at this for some time now. It seems like Nixon was a reaction to LBJ, and Carter was a reaction to Nixon, and Reagan was a reaction to Carter, and Clinton was about Republicans angry with 'no new taxes' (how quaint today), and Bush Jr. was a reaction to the Clinton 'immorality' in the WH (again, quaint), and Obama was a reaction to Bush, and Trump was a reaction to Obama. On and on and on. 

 
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It's in the "Rachel Bitecofer" thread. 

And JM I'll agree further that I think we've been at this for some time now. It seems like Nixon was a reaction to LBJ, and Carter was a reaction to Nixon, and Reagan was a reaction to Carter, and Clinton was about Republicans angry with 'no new taxes' (how quaint today), and Bush Jr. was a reaction to the Clinton 'immorality' in the WH, and Obama was a reaction to Bush, and Trump was a reaction to Obama. On and on and on. 
almost, but not quite. as i've posted maybe 400 times in this forum - thru the course of my life, America has had the President it deserved

Eisenhower - Things are good -let's golf!

Kennedy - But this all means something, right?

LBJ - Raises the roof about it, but let's you take the car.

Nixon - We'll deal with those kids who kept the car out all nite for their bloodsugarsexmajik rituals!

Carter - I throw up my hands...

Reagan - It's really about us. What do we want?!

Bush the Elder - I'm with him

Clinton - Guess what i did last nite?!

Bush the Younger - Look what i can get away with!

Obama - Lookin' good, Billy Ray!

Trump - It's always been about me. I look good, right? Where's my latte? Here's my chance...

ETA: Biden? - Wha......just resting my eyes....had a rough day.

 
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Great piece. Joe Biden is the safe choice in easily getting President Trump re-elected. I don’t know one Trump supporter who isn’t ecstatic about facing this bump on a log instead of Bernie. Gift baskets should be sent to the DNC, again.  

 
It's in the "Rachel Bitecofer" thread. 

And JM I'll agree further that I think we've been at this for some time now. It seems like Nixon was a reaction to LBJ, and Carter was a reaction to Nixon, and Reagan was a reaction to Carter, and Clinton was about Republicans angry with 'no new taxes' (how quaint today), and Bush Jr. was a reaction to the Clinton 'immorality' in the WH (again, quaint), and Obama was a reaction to Bush, and Trump was a reaction to Obama. On and on and on. 
Well sure.  I'd still welcome Bush or Obama back if they had eligibility and wanted to be President in 2020.  

I've liked some stuff Trump's done, but there are a litany of Republicans I'd welcome at this point.  

I don't think most Dems are excited or fired up for the Biden movement.  And honestly, if Bernie got the nomination--I think you'd see a lot of Trump votes just to defeat Bernie.  

I wish it were boy, I like guy A lot, but I like guy B better on these points.  

Instead it's "who's the least disappointing" for the second consecutive election.  

 
Well sure.  I'd still welcome Bush or Obama back if they had eligibility and wanted to be President in 2020.  

I've liked some stuff Trump's done, but there are a litany of Republicans I'd welcome at this point.  

I don't think most Dems are excited or fired up for the Biden movement.  And honestly, if Bernie got the nomination--I think you'd see a lot of Trump votes just to defeat Bernie.  

I wish it were boy, I like guy A lot, but I like guy B better on these points.  

Instead it's "who's the least disappointing" for the second consecutive election.  
Last 2 Republican presidents: W and Trump.

That’s amazing. 

 
almost, but not quite. as i've posted maybe 400 times in this forum - thru the course of my life, America has had the President it deserved

Eisenhower - Things are good -let's golf!

Kennedy - But this all means something, right?

LBJ - Raises the roof about it, but let's you take the car.

Nixon - We'll deal with those kids who kept the car out all nite for their bloodsugarsexmajik rituals!

Carter - I throw up my hands...

Reagan - It's really about us. What do we want?!

Bush the Elder - I'm with him

Clinton - Guess what i did last nite?!

Bush the Younger - Look what i can get away with!

Obama - Lookin' good, Billy Ray!

Trump - It's always been about me. I look good, right? Where's my latte? Here's my chance...

ETA: Biden? - Wha......just resting my eyes....had a rough day.
That’s great stuff and you’re hired, but it would be fun to get your take on their opponents’ messaging. If you look at it that way the votes could have just as easily been flipped.

 
Trump is a symptom of the status quo failing, not a cause. He was essentially a desperation hail mary by people getting left behind in the modern economy, just hoping he would do something ... anything to shake it up. Can Biden do better than Hillary? Possibly, but it would be more due to increased exposure to Trump turning away a few of his voters rather than Biden enticing anyone to vote for him that did not already vote for Hillary. Best case scenario he barely beats Trump, at which point he would be super vulnerable in 2024 due to his mind going and not actually offering anything different from the status quo that leads to people like Trump in the first place.

 
Great piece. Joe Biden is the safe choice in easily getting President Trump re-elected. I don’t know one Trump supporter who isn’t ecstatic about facing this bump on a log instead of Bernie. Gift baskets should be sent to the DNC, again.  
I honestly think there would be a tremendeous anti-socialism vote if Bernie got the nom.

Pete was the closest thing to firing up the base.  

I liked Klobuchar the best of the Dem Candidates, but she never gained any traction. 

 
Bingo. Which is why Sanders could not be the opponent. Now it's all on Trump.
Not sure what planet you guys come from where Biden is a neutral placeholder and no one will look at him at all, but I promise you it’s disastrously wrong.  Biden has serious liabilities that go beyond ideology, and they will get exposed 100%.  

 
Not sure what planet you guys come from where Biden is a neutral placeholder and no one will look at him at all, but I promise you it’s disastrously wrong.  Biden has serious liabilities that go beyond ideology, and they will get exposed 100%.  
My point is that Sanders would have much more of a problem. Get it?

 

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