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John Clay 2012 = James Starks 2011 ? (1 Viewer)

Captain Fantastic

Footballguy
Read an interesting article (either SI or ESPN...saw it this morning but too lazy to look it up again) contending that the situation for John Clay in this playoff run is similar to the recipe that led to the success of James Starks in last year's playoff run.

If you're drafting a playoff FF team, is Clay a late round steal of the draft?

His opportunity window clearly opened wider with the loss of Mendenhall, BUT Redman seems like a capable backup who should immediately command the majority of carries.

On the other hand, IF Clay becomes the hot hand, and IF Pitt beats Denver and plays 2-4 games, Clay could deliver serious FF points versus his draft cost.

General media seems to believe Steelers have the highest likelihood of being an AFC wildcard that actually makes a trip to the Super Bowl. Four games out of a low-cost RB would be extraordinary in most playoff FF formats.

Alas, I haven't followed the Steelers closely this year so my knowledge base is pretty low. What say you, Steelers experts? Does Clay bring anything special to the table that might make him "the man" (at least more "the man" than Redman)?

Much appreciated...

 
Read an interesting article (either SI or ESPN...saw it this morning but too lazy to look it up again) contending that the situation for John Clay in this playoff run is similar to the recipe that led to the success of James Starks in last year's playoff run.

If you're drafting a playoff FF team, is Clay a late round steal of the draft?

His opportunity window clearly opened wider with the loss of Mendenhall, BUT Redman seems like a capable backup who should immediately command the majority of carries.

On the other hand, IF Clay becomes the hot hand, and IF Pitt beats Denver and plays 2-4 games, Clay could deliver serious FF points versus his draft cost.

General media seems to believe Steelers have the highest likelihood of being an AFC wildcard that actually makes a trip to the Super Bowl. Four games out of a low-cost RB would be extraordinary in most playoff FF formats.

Alas, I haven't followed the Steelers closely this year so my knowledge base is pretty low. What say you, Steelers experts? Does Clay bring anything special to the table that might make him "the man" (at least more "the man" than Redman)?

Much appreciated...
You answered your own question right here, Redman is the superior running back.
 
Clay doesn't offer anything Redman doesn't. They are both big (slow) backs that are hard to bring down.

Den/Pit is going to be so low scoring. I would rather go with Ivory if you're looking for a lower ranked guy.

 
I am surprised that Clay was able to stay on a roster this year. The only reason he left Wisconsin early was he knew that Montee Ball was breathing down his neck.

 
'garosenb said:
I am surprised that Clay was able to stay on a roster this year. The only reason he left Wisconsin early was he knew that Montee Ball was breathing down his neck.
Only reason he isnt on a practice squad this year is due to injuries from Baron Batch, Jonathon Dwyer and Mewelde Moore; and that the Steelers needed another RB to pair with Redman/Mendenhall since Mewelde got hurt.All these RB's are/were ahead of Clay.
 
'Xue said:
Starks 2011 was barely startable unless you want a consistent 5pts a week.
Starks was a great pickup in the 2011 playoffs. He rushed for 315 yards in four games and got a TD in the NFC Championship game. Agree that it's not stellar, but averaging 12 points a game for a guy who could be had for virtually no cost at the end of a draft is FANTASTIC. (Again, just talking about last year's playoff run here, not the lackluster 2011 regular season Starks just turned in.)I'm not advocating Clay, just looking at the situation. Redman will go relatively high in playoff drafts. Clay will go pretty low. If Clay ends up playing significant time (even a 50/50 split with Redman) and Pitt plays two or more games, that would probably make Clay a value pick.Just thinking out loud. Through the keyboard. :mellow:
 
Not a bad post, but you should look at the facts first.

Last year, the pack had no one who had done a damn thing all year, and Starks had managed a couple of decent games before the playoffs.

Last week, against Cleveland - it was Redman who had the carries and yards (and TD)19 carries, 92 yards, 1 td. Plus 3 rcpts.

So could Clay go off? There is a chance. But you have to assume no, plus it is against Denver, so a double no.

 
'Xue said:
Starks 2011 was barely startable unless you want a consistent 5pts a week.
He was around 24-25 in PPR until he got injured.
Hmmm, no, not this year
Yes, he was.
Just to bury this completely - here are the game stats for Starks. You could play in a 2pt per reception league with 1pt for every 10 yards rushing and receiving and 12pt per td....and he still never got to 24 pts.

 
'Xue said:
Starks 2011 was barely startable unless you want a consistent 5pts a week.
He was around 24-25 in PPR until he got injured.
Hmmm, no, not this year
Yes, he was.
Just to bury this completely - here are the game stats for Starks. You could play in a 2pt per reception league with 1pt for every 10 yards rushing and receiving and 12pt per td....and he still never got to 24 pts.
RB #24-25. I can't imagine how you could possibly think I was saying 24-25 PPG.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
John Clay’s Time to Shine and Chance to Stick With the Steelers

With Rashard Mendenhall out with an ACL injury, Jonathan Dwyer shelved with a bum foot, Mewelde Moore ailing with a sprained MCL, and Isaac Redman suddenly coming down with a case of “fumble-itis,” the Steelers have quite a few issues at the RB position entering the 2011 Playoffs. Bad timing I know, but Pittsburgh must find a way to cobble together a consistent and fumble-free ground attack as they enter the Postseason. I do however feel that there is one “X-Factor” that the Steelers could count on in the upcoming weeks who definitely has a lot to play for this January/February: RB John Clay.

Introduction

For those of you that did not read it, Clay was actually the subject of my first article here at NPC. In it, I discussed the merits of having Clay on the team and also how Clay could be a terrific addition to the Practice Squad in 2011 as a UDFA. With his immense size (6’1″ 248 lbs.), I thought that with a bit of seasoning Clay could fit the mold of a typical throwback runner for the Steelers and help with the Goal Line rushing chores too.

Well, Clay’s seasoning period has ended in 2011, and he will now have his best chance to shine this January with some extended playing time. Don’t get me wrong, Redman’s performance last Sunday (92 yards on the ground and 18 on his catches) was nice statistically and he gave an overall tremendous effort, no bones about it. However, Isaac’s two fumbles were drive-killers and took points off the scoreboard. And you’ve gotta believe that Kirby Wilson, Bruce Arians, and Tomlin are a bit tentative to use Redman in a featured role now that the games have everything riding on them. Sure, Redman hadn’t fumbled all season long, but you simply can’t have an RB cough up the ball at the most important part of the season (right Rashard?). That being said, it would come as no shock to me that Redman’s touches will be a bit more limited in the Postseason even with both Mendenhall and Moore out (Down from 25 a game to likely 15).

Clay’s Big Opportunity

If my theory regarding Redman’s touches holds true, Clay should get multiple chances to prove himself because he will be the #2 guy on the roster at the RB spot. What Clay does with those chances is entirely up to him, because the window of opportunity for an N.F.L. RB to prove himself is paper thin these days. Thus, all signs should to be pointing to Clay running like a “bat out of Hell” come Sunday afternoon.

The Steelers will need to at least run the ball effectively this weekend if they want to get out of Denver with a “W.” If Clay can go “ground-and-pound” and get 4 yards a pop for maybe 10-15 carries (coupled with a nice performance from Redman), the pressure will be taken off of Ben to constantly throw on his bum ankle. With a solid rushing attack, Ben can get some high percentage throws to make. With high percentage throws attacking a Denver Defense selling on the run, the Steelers will coast to an easy victory because they will likely only need 14 Total Points to win.

The time is now for the Steelers to get back to their roots as a “Power Football” team with regards to their running game. Without Mendy. tip-toeing (part of that is the Offensive Line’s fault though), Redman and Clay will be the top two on the depth chart. If there was any time for Clay to find his niche in the N.F.L., these upcoming weeks will provide the ample time and place.

Denver’s Run Defense

Clay should be walking into a favorable situation because Denver’s Defense has been mediocre at best against the run game at best this season. They gave up 126.3 yards per game in the regular season which was good for 22nd in the entire League. Decent, but considering their competition, nothing to write home about. But most importantly, bigger and powerful backs such as Michael Bush, Toby Gerhart, Jackie Battle, and Marion Barber have found some measures of success against Denver’s Run Defense in 2011. Which by all accounts is favorable to a player like Clay that will be getting some touches on Sunday (and hopefully beyond).

Yet not only has Denver’s Run Defense been suspect this season, teams have begun to run against Denver’s Defense over their three game losing streak to close the regular season. Over their three game skid (against New England, Buffalo, and Kansas City), Denver’s Defense has given up an average of just over 135 yards on the ground. Sure, some of that can be attributed to the Broncos getting pasted by New England and Buffalo late in the games, but the stat still reveals one important thing: If Denver is jumped on top of by a wide margin, the opposition can use the running game and clock against the Broncos with the run game. And these Offense’s Denver is facing? They rank 13th, 15th, and 20th in terms of Rush Yards per game, not exactly Baltimore and Ray Rice if you ask me, so there is definitely some success to be had against this Defense.

What Clay Can Bring

Clay has shown flashes of his ability in these last two games of the season. Clay’s first and only carry against St. Louis actually went for his first career TD. Sure it was against the Rams’ shoddy run Defense, but for a big guy to move like that in space for the 10 yard TD, break free like he did, and the Line to block like that were very good signs. Against Cleveland, Clay had 9 carries for 31 yards, unsexy I know, but those were some really tough yards he ended up gaining, and he showed a knack for moving the pile well on some of those runs too. Also, Clay had a couple of nice plays while pass blocking for Ben and allowed Roethlisberger to complete some key passes without getting planted.

Versus Denver, Clay will likely be used in that “pile pushing” role again all over the field and likely at the Goal Line. His size and bruising ability should likely allow him to have his number called upon to convert some very important First Downs as the game wears on into the 2nd Half. Well, that’s contingent on Bruce Arians actually committing to the run on 2nd and 3rd and 1 or 2, but that’s for another article.

Overall, the less that Ben has to take long drops and instead rely on the ground game the better. I won’t lie to you readers, the last thing that I want to see is Ben getting mauled by likely Defensive Rookie of the Year Von Miller, Pro Bowler Elvis Dumervil, and the rest of Denver’s pass rush causing turnovers on Sacks and errant throws.

Denver’s Offense should theoretically do nothing against the Steelers’ Defense and giving the Broncos free points on Defense (as well as Special Teams) to stay in the game long enough for “Tebow Magic” is downright unforgivable. Thus, Clay’s presence and effectiveness running the football are needed for this Sunday’s showdown, and likely for the rest of the Postseason as well.

Conclusion

Who knows? If Clay does well on Sunday and throughout the rest of Pittsburgh’s foray into the Postseason, he might find himself a permanent spot on the roster next season. Furthermore, if Clay emerges in these Postseason games and plays well throughout 2012, the Steelers might even find Mendenhall, Me-Mo, or Dwyer (they’ll give Baron Batch another shot) expendable.

I know, I know. We can play the “If” game all day long, but I am trying to make a point here, and it is this: UDFA John Clay now has his chance on a national stage to show the teams that passed on him for 7 Rounds in The 2011 Draft that they were wrong. If he is effective in his chance to play, he could find himself with more Playing Time next season in Latrobe. And with a crowded Backfield taking shape (Mendy., Redman, Me-Mo, Dwyer, and B. Batch), this might be Clay’s best and only opportunity to show the Steelers what he can do.

All I know is that I’m rooting for the dude, because the Steelers need a punishing back like a Bettis or a Bam-Bam again. And if Clay can fill that void then I say give him every chance possible, Tomlin. Let’s just hope that Clay will respond to his chance and we in Steeler Nation can rejoice at the sight of a bruiser doing damage to the opposition.
 
'Xue said:
Starks 2011 was barely startable unless you want a consistent 5pts a week.
He was around 24-25 in PPR until he got injured.
Hmmm, no, not this year
Yes, he was.
Just to bury this completely - here are the game stats for Starks. You could play in a 2pt per reception league with 1pt for every 10 yards rushing and receiving and 12pt per td....and he still never got to 24 pts.
RB #24-25. I can't imagine how you could possibly think I was saying 24-25 PPG.
nice recovery. Except you were responding to the post that was Starks 2011 was barely startable unless you want a consistent 5pts a week.
 
'Xue said:
Starks 2011 was barely startable unless you want a consistent 5pts a week.
He was around 24-25 in PPR until he got injured.
Hmmm, no, not this year
Yes, he was.
Just to bury this completely - here are the game stats for Starks. You could play in a 2pt per reception league with 1pt for every 10 yards rushing and receiving and 12pt per td....and he still never got to 24 pts.
RB #24-25. I can't imagine how you could possibly think I was saying 24-25 PPG.
nice recovery. Except you were responding to the post that was Starks 2011 was barely startable unless you want a consistent 5pts a week.
:rolleyes: You said he was barely startable, so I was pointing out that this was not the case in PPR leagues. I can't fathom that you would truly think I was implying he put up 24-25 points per game.
 
'smackdaddies said:
'jonboltz said:
'smackdaddies said:
Starks 2011 was barely startable unless you want a consistent 5pts a week.
He was around 24-25 in PPR until he got injured.
Hmmm, no, not this year
Yes, he was.
Just to bury this completely - here are the game stats for Starks. You could play in a 2pt per reception league with 1pt for every 10 yards rushing and receiving and 12pt per td....and he still never got to 24 pts.
RB #24-25. I can't imagine how you could possibly think I was saying 24-25 PPG.
nice recovery. Except you were responding to the post that was Starks 2011 was barely startable unless you want a consistent 5pts a week.
Your reading comprehension is very, very poor.
 
'smackdaddies said:
'jonboltz said:
'smackdaddies said:
Starks 2011 was barely startable unless you want a consistent 5pts a week.
He was around 24-25 in PPR until he got injured.
Hmmm, no, not this year
Yes, he was.
Just to bury this completely - here are the game stats for Starks. You could play in a 2pt per reception league with 1pt for every 10 yards rushing and receiving and 12pt per td....and he still never got to 24 pts.
RB #24-25. I can't imagine how you could possibly think I was saying 24-25 PPG.
nice recovery. Except you were responding to the post that was Starks 2011 was barely startable unless you want a consistent 5pts a week.
:rolleyes: You said he was barely startable, so I was pointing out that this was not the case in PPR leagues. I can't fathom that you would truly think I was implying he put up 24-25 points per game.
Ok you responded to that post, but you were really responding to my post mich earlier my mistake
 

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