johnny manziel immaturity. (1 Viewer)

[Adam Harstad]

Adam, are you trying to say that immaturity and character issues don't effect a players draft position? I'm not saying he won't get drafted. But you have to be crazy to believe that a QB who may act like a tool and expose the team to tabloids etc. wouldn't negatively impact his draft position. Even half a round or so. Teams absolutely factor maturity into their draft boards.

Yes, red flags will get him pushed down the draft board. Had Andrew Luck gotten suspended for smoking pot, maybe Griffin would have gone #1 and Luck gone #2. If Terrelle Pryor hadn't gotten suspended, maybe there's a chance he pulls a Pat White and sneaks into the second. If Da'Rick Rogers wasn't a serial idiot, he probably gets drafted. If Tyrann Mathieu wasn't a serial idiot, who knows, maybe he makes it into the first round. These things absolutely matter.

At the end of the day, though, if NFL GMs think he's the next Robert Griffin, they'll take him in the first. If NFL teams don't take him in the first, that's probably more an indictment of his perceived ability than it is of his perceived maturity- like karmarooster pointed out, Cam Newton gets much more leeway because he's 3 inches taller and 30 pounds heavier. Especially because NFL teams aren't dummies- they know that 20-year-old kids are going to get smarter and more mature. And most especially of all because Johnny Manziel's "maturity issues" are practically a non-issue, as far as the NFL is concerned. Name the last NFL player to get suspended for taunting or signing autographs. In college, these are huge boogeymen because they attack the very (stupid) idea of "amateurism" and the "purity of the game". In the NFL... who cares? Chad Ochocinco and Terrell Owens were taunting fools. Their coaches didn't necessarily like it, but how many games did they miss because of it? If Johnny Manziel continues being an idiot in the league, it'll cost him a lot of cash and it'll cost his team a half-dozen 15 yard penalties, but how's that any different than what Ndamakong Suh brings to the table?

I'd imagine Manziel's draft stock would be far more impacted by repeated failed drug tests or night club altercations than it would by whatever nonsense he's been getting himself into.

. My fear is that the bolder above is much more probable given his arrogance and clear lack of ability to lay low. In other words, an arrogant kid who clearly believes he's above it all, may only right now be displaying this through thumbing his nose @ the NCAA. But it also raises the possibility that this hyper arrogance would manifest itself in greater and greater folly. Pride and arrogance on the field may lead to a gunslinger style if play. Off the field, it leads to reckless behavior. Smoke often leads to fire.

I think you have the causal arrow backwards there (smoke doesn't lead to fire, fire leads to smoke). Still, if we're using fire metaphors, I'll just say I've been burned before trying to predict human behavior. I'm not going to believe that Manziel's likely to get into bar brawls just because he taunts opponents on the field. I don't necessarily see the link, there.

Even if we assume that Manziel's poor impulse control means he's five times as likely to get into a bar brawl as the typical player... what percentage of players get into bar brawls? 1%? So that means there's a 5% chance Manziel does, or a 95% chance he doesn't.

I think a lot of this stems from the fact that people are really bad at thinking probabilistically. As an example: imagine there's a disease that afflicts 1 out of 100 people, and there's a test for this disease that is 90% accurate. If you test positive for this disease, what are the chances you actually have it? People think that the test is so accurate, there must be a high chance that they actually have the disease, but the truth is that only 1 out of every 12 people who tests positive will actually have it. If someone is at dramatically heightened risk for a very unlikely outcome, it still remains very unlikely that they'll succumb to that outcome.

 

[timschochet]

Manziel gets so much press, but there are several college quarterbacks out there that the NFL scouts like a whole lot more.

For instance, in the Pac-12, there are two redshirt sophomores, Marcus Mariota of Oregon and Brett Hundley of UCLA. If either of these guys choose to leave after this year, they will be taken a lot higher than Manziel.

 

[mr roboto]

We're not talking casual relationships. We are talking about predictions of human behavior in the future. An overly cocky kid who repeatedly gets exposed for minor gaffes in public and doesn't learn, hides behind 'Im 20' and has a growing entitlement complex is more likely (what % I have no clue) to get into real trouble later on than a kid who respects authority, shows up in time, keeps a low profile etc. And for the record, I hate the NCAA and the ways it's set up, so I have no problem that they have egg on their face. But Johnny's arrogance and attitude, if uncorrected, increases his risk of doing something really stupid. If you don't believe that about human nature, then I don't know what to say.

 

[Long Ball Larry]

If he gets a 1 out of 10 on the Social Maturity Test, any team that takes him is just asking for another Aaron Hernandez situation.

Johnny Football is a complete "Avoid".

This is quite sensationalistic, don't you think? Signing autographs and taunting the opposition don't exactly seem like precursors to serial homicide to me.

hes not using PCP or ordering the murder of people around him; plus I saw it as him taunting the system instead of just the opponent. Pretty amusing IMO.

How do you know? Ever heard of the saying "where there's smoke, there's fire?" There's a reason.

 

[Touchdown There]

All I see is competitive fire and a middle finger to the NCAA. Nothing wrong with that.

 

[Koya]

Manziel gets so much press, but there are several college quarterbacks out there that the NFL scouts like a whole lot more.

For instance, in the Pac-12, there are two redshirt sophomores, Marcus Mariota of Oregon and Brett Hundley of UCLA. If either of these guys choose to leave after this year, they will be taken a lot higher than Manziel.

There are plenty of players at all positions in college - in all the sports at that - who are more highly regarded than Manziel. And yes, many of them are living the 20 year old dream and along with it, plenty of stupid acts (hell those might just the most fun of all).All that said, I haven't heard any of them being half the ### clown this guy appears to be.

 

[JuniorNB]

Anyone minimizing his behavior yesterday and dismissing it as simply thing his nose at the NCAA must not have heard the news about him going to a Texas frat party or getting kicked out of the Manning's camp. It's one thing after another with this nitwit.

He's not a receiver or defensive back. He's a quarterback. A possible face of the franchise and team leader. He's costing himself millions with his immaturity and lack of character. I would never touch him if I was a GM. He just seems like an entitled moron. No thanks.

 

[MoveToSkypager]

Manziel gets so much press, but there are several college quarterbacks out there that the NFL scouts like a whole lot more.

For instance, in the Pac-12, there are two redshirt sophomores, Marcus Mariota of Oregon and Brett Hundley of UCLA. If either of these guys choose to leave after this year, they will be taken a lot higher than Manziel.

I don't know anything about Hundley, but Mariotta, Tahj Boyd and Lousiville dude are all better NFL prospects than him. I'm sure some people that know more about CFB could list more.

 

[DawnBTVS]

If I were an NFL GM, I'd be more worried about how he'd react to getting the load of cash thrown at him if he were a Top 10 selection (or even a 1st Round Selection). If he struggles to handle himself off the field after winning the Heisman and becoming a 'face' of ESPN's College Football promotion, how will he handle the hanger ons, etc. who want to party when he's a millionaire and perceived as the face of a franchise/the savior of a franchise before his first ever snap?

Plenty of players have admitted to coasting/relaxing motivation wise after their first big payday contract in the NFL.

 

[pantherclub]

Manziel gets so much press, but there are several college quarterbacks out there that the NFL scouts like a whole lot more.

For instance, in the Pac-12, there are two redshirt sophomores, Marcus Mariota of Oregon and Brett Hundley of UCLA. If either of these guys choose to leave after this year, they will be taken a lot higher than Manziel.

scouts dont like Manziel

 

[MoveToSkypager]

If I were an NFL GM, I'd be more worried about how he'd react to getting the load of cash thrown at him if he were a Top 10 selection (or even a 1st Round Selection). If he struggles to handle himself off the field after winning the Heisman and becoming a 'face' of ESPN's College Football promotion, how will he handle the hanger ons, etc. who want to party when he's a millionaire and perceived as the face of a franchise/the savior of a franchise before his first ever snap?

Plenty of players have admitted to coasting/relaxing motivation wise after their first big payday contract in the NFL.

He already has a load of cash, I don't see a change caused by that. He might act differently when he's the face of a franchise with fame and the expectations to act like a decent human foisted upon him. Do GMs want their starting QB to be partying regularly and finding contempt with their fanbase? He reportedly can't stand A&M's student/fans.

 

[menobrown]

scouts dont like Manziel

That's not really true. Lot's of good QB's potentially available in the 2014 draft but no one is creating a consensus a this point. I've seen guys whose opinion I respect like a Bucky Brooks have Manziel as his #2 QB. I think the more accurate way to term how scouts feel about him is to say opinions are mixed.

As for his maturity I think it's a bit overblown. Whats going to matter when NFL teams starting digging into him is what his coaches have to say about him and how his teammates perceived him. How good of a teammate he is and his work ethic will ultimately carry more weight than his rock star lifestyle.

And speaking of his rock star persona. Again like how opinions of how well the translates to the NFL are mixed I expect opinions on this to be mixed as well. Why some teams might be scared of the attention/distraction he brings others might view him as an instant box office bonanza, the kind of guy who can instantly stimulate a fan base.

 

[pantherclub]

scouts dont like Manziel

That's not really true. Lot's of good QB's potentially available in the 2014 draft but no one is creating a consensus a this point. I've seen guys whose opinion I respect like a Bucky Brooks have Manziel as his #2 QB. I think the more accurate way to term how scouts feel about him is to say opinions are mixed.

As for his maturity I think it's a bit overblown. Whats going to matter when NFL teams starting digging into him is what his coaches have to say about him and how his teammates perceived him. How good of a teammate he is and his work ethic will ultimately carry more weight than his rock star lifestyle.

And speaking of his rock star persona. Again like how opinions of how well the translates to the NFL are mixed I expect opinions on this to be mixed as well. Why some teams might be scared of the attention/distraction he brings others might view him as an instant box office bonanza, the kind of guy who can instantly stimulate a fan base.

Before we even discuss his immaturity he already is behind the 8 ball on size, arm strength and intelligence. And then there is the maturity problem that would make Ryan Leaf blush.

 

[msudaisy26]

He's around my age, kids in their early 20's are dumb!

lol

 

[JuniorNB]

I saw him as the #6 QB prospect yesterday morning by Todd McShay. That was before his little mental episode yesterday.

 

[msudaisy26]

I don't follow college much but I believe he is a sophomore, and that means he has this year and next year before he can declare for the draft. If this is true he could be the biggest jerk in the world this year and if he turns into a model citizen his junior year and he would still be a top pick if he skills continue to improve,

 

[bigunreal]

Boy, that Manziel is a real problem child. True, there have been numerous players with "character concerns" nearly as troubling, who nevertheless were drafted high and given countless chances in the NFL. Cam Newton had innumerable traffic tickets, was caught cheating academically twice and had to transfer because of it, and threw a stolen laptop out of his dorm room just before the cops got there. And yes, only the most naive person would believe he had no knowledge of his father trying to sell his services to the highest bidder. Why was Cam's father trying to literally auction him off to colleges basically swept under the rug, while Manziel's accepting money for autographs (something that hasn't been proven at all) is a big deal?

We've had players with truly violent backgrounds still be considered can't miss prospects in the NFL. How many horrendous crimes did Lawrence Phillips commit, and still be drafted in the first round? Just this past draft, we saw DeAndre Hopkins be selected in the first round, even though shortly before the draft his hotel room was found with feces covered on the walls. That is so bizarre, and so outside the boundaries of normal human behavior that it ought to have severely affected his draft status.

And then we have Manziel, whose talent is electrifying. His only "crime" was having a fake ID at a bar. Apparently, he was also in a group fight at a bar. No, he didn't punch a pregnant baby mama in the stomach, as scores of NFL players have. He didn't assault a police officer, or get caught multiple times driving drunk, as many in the NFL have. He wasn't accused of sexual assault, a favorite accusation against even the most high profile NFL players. But somehow, his future is in doubt because of some kind of exceptional "immaturity" and "bad judgment."

It would be different if every player in the NCAA and NFL acted like Tim Tebow. They don't. There are more thugs playing football than there are choir boys. Manziel, when compared to his peers, seems to be pretty well behaved. ESPN seems to have launched a campaign to destroy this kid's career.

 

[Abraham]

I simply don't think he is yet a good enough football player to behave this way and have gms not care.

 

[jurb26]

I don't follow college much but I believe he is a sophomore, and that means he has this year and next year before he can declare for the draft. If this is true he could be the biggest jerk in the world this year and if he turns into a model citizen his junior year and he would still be a top pick if he skills continue to improve,

Pretty sure he is a redshirt soph so he is eligible this year.

 

[jurb26]

Guys I'd personally rank ahead of Johnny for next years draft;

Bridgewater

Boyd

McCarron

Morris

Fales

Renner

I've got a low round 2 grade on him.

 

[Redmen62]

Boy, that Manziel is a real problem child. True, there have been numerous players with "character concerns" nearly as troubling, who nevertheless were drafted high and given countless chances in the NFL. Cam Newton had innumerable traffic tickets, was caught cheating academically twice and had to transfer because of it, and threw a stolen laptop out of his dorm room just before the cops got there. And yes, only the most naive person would believe he had no knowledge of his father trying to sell his services to the highest bidder. Why was Cam's father trying to literally auction him off to colleges basically swept under the rug, while Manziel's accepting money for autographs (something that hasn't been proven at all) is a big deal?

We've had players with truly violent backgrounds still be considered can't miss prospects in the NFL. How many horrendous crimes did Lawrence Phillips commit, and still be drafted in the first round? Just this past draft, we saw DeAndre Hopkins be selected in the first round, even though shortly before the draft his hotel room was found with feces covered on the walls. That is so bizarre, and so outside the boundaries of normal human behavior that it ought to have severely affected his draft status.

And then we have Manziel, whose talent is electrifying. His only "crime" was having a fake ID at a bar. Apparently, he was also in a group fight at a bar. No, he didn't punch a pregnant baby mama in the stomach, as scores of NFL players have. He didn't assault a police officer, or get caught multiple times driving drunk, as many in the NFL have. He wasn't accused of sexual assault, a favorite accusation against even the most high profile NFL players. But somehow, his future is in doubt because of some kind of exceptional "immaturity" and "bad judgment."

It would be different if every player in the NCAA and NFL acted like Tim Tebow. They don't. There are more thugs playing football than there are choir boys. Manziel, when compared to his peers, seems to be pretty well behaved. ESPN seems to have launched a campaign to destroy this kid's career.

Hi, Johhny.

 

[Spartans346]

I think it will be a while before you see a freshman winning the Heisman. As for the kid, what he does during the offseason is his business, but how he acted yesterday was a disgrace.

 

[bigunreal]

You guys are hilarious. Manziel is incredibly fast, brash, and absolutely dominates every game he's in. And yet, because the "experts" on ESPN are busily waging a campaign to derail his career, you swallow the koolaid. Manziel is the complete package, and should by all rights be able to run the new read option offense perfectly in the NFL.

And again, Manziel's off the field issues are nothing. He's an absolute saint compared to half the NFL.

 

[pantherclub]

You guys are hilarious. Manziel is incredibly fast, brash, and absolutely dominates every game he's in. And yet, because the "experts" on ESPN are busily waging a campaign to derail his career, you swallow the koolaid. Manziel is the complete package, and should by all rights be able to run the new read option offense perfectly in the NFL.

And again, Manziel's off the field issues are nothing. He's an absolute saint compared to half the NFL.

I am going out on a limb here and predict you are an A and M fan.

 

[bigunreal]

I think it will be a while before you see a freshman winning the Heisman. As for the kid, what he does during the offseason is his business, but how he acted yesterday was a disgrace.

How was it a disgrace? I'm sure you thought T.O. and Ochocinco and Deion Sanders were a disgrace, too. Not to mention every WR who catches a 10 yard pass for a first down. Manziel is acting like a black player, and that's what's bothering people. White players are supposed to be "classy" like John Lynch or even superstars like Joe Montana. He's not humble, but that doesn't mean he isn't a great player.

 

[bigunreal]

You guys are hilarious. Manziel is incredibly fast, brash, and absolutely dominates every game he's in. And yet, because the "experts" on ESPN are busily waging a campaign to derail his career, you swallow the koolaid. Manziel is the complete package, and should by all rights be able to run the new read option offense perfectly in the NFL.

And again, Manziel's off the field issues are nothing. He's an absolute saint compared to half the NFL.

I am going out on a limb here and predict you are an A and M fan.

Nope, not really a fan of any college team. Well, I still have a slight thing for Notre Dame.

 

[bigunreal]

Guys I'd personally rank ahead of Johnny for next years draft;

Bridgewater

Boyd

McCarron

Morris

Fales

Renner

I've got a low round 2 grade on him.

Wow- ESPN has really worked its charms on you. Manziel's talents dwarf everyone of those players.

 

[Dinsy Ejotuz]

He's an absolute saint compared to half the NFL.

From a moral standpoint, you're probably right.

From a stupid standpoint, not so much.

 

[bigunreal]

Somehow, I doubt that Manziel is "stupid" compared to most of the NFL players, either. Stubborn, yes, in clinging to his party lifestyle, when he should realize ESPN and co. are looking for anything they can to smear him. But stupid, no, not when compared to most non- rocket scientist type football players.

 

[wormburner]

And again, Manziel's off the field issues are nothing. He's an absolute saint compared to half the NFL.

When did we start using the derelict half of the gene pool to set the standard for the other half?

I blame Jerry Springer.

 

[MoveToSkypager]

Guys I'd personally rank ahead of Johnny for next years draft;

Bridgewater

Boyd

McCarron

Morris

Fales

Renner

I've got a low round 2 grade on him.

Wow- ESPN has really worked its charms on you. Manziel's talents dwarf everyone of those players.

you crazy

 

[bigunreal]

Yeah, I'm crazy. Manziel is an athletic freak of nature, and it shows every time he steps on the field. But unless ESPN and the other "experts" tell you that, most of you will go along with the program.

 

[JuniorNB]

Yeah, I'm crazy. Manziel is an athletic freak of nature, and it shows every time he steps on the field. But unless ESPN and the other "experts" tell you that, most of you will go along with the program.

He better get a helluva lot smarter if he wants any shot whatsoever at playing in the NFL. Vince Young was an athletic freak in college too. And manziel actually makes him seem smart.

 

[pantherclub]

Yeah, I'm crazy. Manziel is an athletic freak of nature, and it shows every time he steps on the field. But unless ESPN and the other "experts" tell you that, most of you will go along with the program.

he is 6'1 dude

settle down

 

[bigunreal]

Russell Wilson is 5'10 (supposedly, probably shorter). Drew Brees is 6 feet at best. And RGIII is definitely not as tall as they claim (6'2). Manziel is plenty tall enough, and has a slew of obvious, superior skills.

 

[MoveToSkypager]

Yeah, I'm crazy. Manziel is an athletic freak of nature, and it shows every time he steps on the field. But unless ESPN and the other "experts" tell you that, most of you will go along with the program.

I don't watch ESPN, but I do see that Manziel isn't nearly as good as you want him to be.

 

[cobalt_27]

In my experience, 20 year olds, as a group, are not usually known for their maturity. The human prefrontal cortex isn't finished developing until around age 25- at age 20, it's about halfway between where it is in a 13 year old and where it is in a fully grown adult. The prefrontal cortex is responsible for inhibiting impulses, planning behavior, and working towards a long-term goal. Also, the reward centers of the brain go nuts at puberty and takes at least a decade to settle back down, which is why teenage boys do crazy stupid things.

We grant adult rights and responsibilities to 18-year-olds and expect them to behave like 40-year-old men, but the truth is, they're still just adolescents. I know that who I was at 20 was completely different from who I was at 25.

Interestingly, most 20 year olds who play QB for major college programs exhibit far greater maturity than Manziel. It's very kind of you to explain his behavior away on speculation about his neuroanatomy, but I suspect personality factors play a much stronger role.

 

[T J]

Guys I'd personally rank ahead of Johnny for next years draft;

Bridgewater

Boyd

McCarron

Morris

Fales

Renner

I've got a low round 2 grade on him.

Wow- ESPN has really worked its charms on you. Manziel's talents dwarf everyone of those players.

you crazy

I agree. You're nuts.

A) Manziel is a punk

B) He's small and his skill set will not translate to the NFL.

Combine the two and I think you're looking at maybe, maybe a third rounder.

 

[pantherclub]

Russell Wilson is 5'10 (supposedly, probably shorter). Drew Brees is 6 feet at best. And RGIII is definitely not as tall as they claim (6'2). Manziel is plenty tall enough, and has a slew of obvious, superior skills.

you are correct here but Manziel is not some athletic freak of nature like you said. He is a good college qb that reminds most everyone of Tebow.

 

[Adam Harstad]

Yeah, I'm crazy. Manziel is an athletic freak of nature, and it shows every time he steps on the field. But unless ESPN and the other "experts" tell you that, most of you will go along with the program.

So were Pat White, Tim Tebow, and Terrelle Pryor. Dudes dominated in college. If you can't stand in the pocket, diagnose an NFL defense, go through your progressions, and deliver an accurate pass in a small window to the open receiver, you're not long for the NFL.

 

[dmarcel2nd]

Amother college kid acting like.... a not yet mature college kid. I don't know why are always trying to force these kids to grow up much faster than any other college kids. I know I did some pretty immature things in college so why would I expect these 18,19,20 year olds to act like grown adults? Because they play a game we all spend $$$ on? The problems for me comes when you start getting involved with the police, (not the generic frat party got busted up either) but involved in serious felonies and involved with drugs.

As far as talent, I think he has the talent of a great college QB, but not the skills to make it in the pros.

 

[Adam Harstad]

In my experience, 20 year olds, as a group, are not usually known for their maturity. The human prefrontal cortex isn't finished developing until around age 25- at age 20, it's about halfway between where it is in a 13 year old and where it is in a fully grown adult. The prefrontal cortex is responsible for inhibiting impulses, planning behavior, and working towards a long-term goal. Also, the reward centers of the brain go nuts at puberty and takes at least a decade to settle back down, which is why teenage boys do crazy stupid things.

We grant adult rights and responsibilities to 18-year-olds and expect them to behave like 40-year-old men, but the truth is, they're still just adolescents. I know that who I was at 20 was completely different from who I was at 25.

Interestingly, most 20 year olds who play QB for major college programs exhibit far greater maturity than Manziel. It's very kind of you to explain his behavior away on speculation about his neuroanatomy, but I suspect personality factors play a much stronger role.

I'm not trying to suggest that he's particularly bright for a 20 year old, or that he's an average representative of the group. I'm trying to suggest that 20 year olds still grow and get more mature. Maybe he only grows a little and remains a particularly stupid 25-year-old. Maybe he grows a lot and becomes an average member of society. I have no idea, but neither does anyone else. All I can say at this point is that it's practically a certainty that he will continue to grow and mature.

To use an analogy, you can point to a particularly scrawny 18 year old 1-star recruit and say that he's too scrawny to ever be anything, and I might respond that at 18, you can't yet rule out a growth spurt. Sure, lots of scrawny 18-year-old 1-star recruits grow up to be scrawny 23-year-old insurance salesmen. Not all of them, though. Some scrawny 18-year-old 1-star recruits grow up to be J.J. Watt, or Eric Fisher. Some guys just happen to be late bloomers. Johnny Manziel is far too young for us to be calling him a finished product and closing the book on him.

 

[jurb26]

Yeah, I'm crazy. Manziel is an athletic freak of nature, and it shows every time he steps on the field. But unless ESPN and the other "experts" tell you that, most of you will go along with the program.

No, he's really not. Cam Newton was an athletic freak of nature. Randy Moss was a Super Freak of nature. Menziel is just an under sized wana be gun slinger with poor mechanics, poor decision making and an option run mentality.

 

[jurb26]

Yeah, I'm crazy. Manziel is an athletic freak of nature, and it shows every time he steps on the field. But unless ESPN and the other "experts" tell you that, most of you will go along with the program.

So were Pat White, Tim Tebow, and Terrelle Pryor. Dudes dominated in college. If you can't stand in the pocket, diagnose an NFL defense, go through your progressions, and deliver an accurate pass in a small window to the open receiver, you're not long for the NFL.

Eric Crouch is who he remins me of, but those are good examples as well.

 

[Bruno2]

I bet by the end of the season this little melt down will be a non issue. How many melt downs did Jeff George have? What the public knew was probably just the tip of the iceberg compared to what really happened back in the day. Same could said about the exploits of players like Ken Stabler, Joe Namath and Paul Hornung just to name a few. If those guys played in this day and age they would never see the field. I think its a little unfair to expect 20 year olds to be model citizens 100% of the time. He will be judged mainly on his talent just like Tebow has been. If the kid can play, you can bet he'll be playing in the NFL someday.

 

[JShare87]

Anyone who doesn't think Manziel is an athletic freak obviously hasn't watched him much. Then people comparing him to Tim Tebow are hilarious. Manziel runs a 4.4 his pocket presence and play making abilities are ridiculous. His vertical leap is off the charts (not that it matters playing qb). He has a whole heck of a lot of zip on his ball. He has a quick flick of the wrist release somewhat like Vick. He has a good arm not great, but he can certainly make every throw. I understand a lot of you already have your minds made up about him and nothing anyone says or does will change that. Just like I have my mind maid up. Also his on field antics that people say are a disgrace need to stop. He did the same stuff he did last year he is a flashy player and that's about it. If he is disgraceful for pointing to a scoreboard then there have been a whole lot of disgraceful players in every sport.

 

[jurb26]

Anyone who doesn't think Manziel is an athletic freak obviously hasn't watched him much. Then people comparing him to Tim Tebow are hilarious. Manziel runs a 4.4 his pocket presence and play making abilities are ridiculous. His vertical leap is off the charts (not that it matters playing qb). He has a whole heck of a lot of zip on his ball. He has a quick flick of the wrist release somewhat like Vick. He has a good arm not great, but he can certainly make every throw. I understand a lot of you already have your minds made up about him and nothing anyone says or does will change that. Just like I have my mind maid up. Also his on field antics that people say are a disgrace need to stop. He did the same stuff he did last year he is a flashy player and that's about it. If he is disgraceful for pointing to a scoreboard then there have been a whole lot of disgraceful players in every sport.

Yeah, like I said Eric Crouch is a better example....

 

[Spartans346]

I think it will be a while before you see a freshman winning the Heisman. As for the kid, what he does during the offseason is his business, but how he acted yesterday was a disgrace.

How was it a disgrace? I'm sure you thought T.O. and Ochocinco and Deion Sanders were a disgrace, too. Not to mention every WR who catches a 10 yard pass for a first down. Manziel is acting like a black player, and that's what's bothering people. White players are supposed to be "classy" like John Lynch or even superstars like Joe Montana. He's not humble, but that doesn't mean he isn't a great player.

Never said he wasn't a great player. But when a college player walks away and ignores the coach, that's disgraceful!!! Yes, T.O. and Ochocinco was disgraceful as well and look where they're at.......broke.

 

[Adam Harstad]

Anyone who doesn't think Manziel is an athletic freak obviously hasn't watched him much. Then people comparing him to Tim Tebow are hilarious. Manziel runs a 4.4 his pocket presence and play making abilities are ridiculous. His vertical leap is off the charts (not that it matters playing qb). He has a whole heck of a lot of zip on his ball. He has a quick flick of the wrist release somewhat like Vick. He has a good arm not great, but he can certainly make every throw. I understand a lot of you already have your minds made up about him and nothing anyone says or does will change that. Just like I have my mind maid up. Also his on field antics that people say are a disgrace need to stop. He did the same stuff he did last year he is a flashy player and that's about it. If he is disgraceful for pointing to a scoreboard then there have been a whole lot of disgraceful players in every sport.

Tim Tebow had the second highest bench press on the two-time national champion Florida Gators (including offensive and defensive linemen). His vertical leap, at the time, was the 2nd best mark by a QB in combine history. He had the 6th best 3-cone drill score at the combine, regardless of position (it's at least the best mark by a QB since 2006, I don't know about before that). He might not have had blazing straight-line speed, but he was absolutely an athletic freak of nature. Also, when Tebow left college, he was the second-highest-rated QB in NCAA history (behind Sam Bradford).

Being an athletic phenom who dominated college competition is no guarantee of NFL success.

 

[pantherclub]

In my experience, 20 year olds, as a group, are not usually known for their maturity. The human prefrontal cortex isn't finished developing until around age 25- at age 20, it's about halfway between where it is in a 13 year old and where it is in a fully grown adult. The prefrontal cortex is responsible for inhibiting impulses, planning behavior, and working towards a long-term goal. Also, the reward centers of the brain go nuts at puberty and takes at least a decade to settle back down, which is why teenage boys do crazy stupid things.

We grant adult rights and responsibilities to 18-year-olds and expect them to behave like 40-year-old men, but the truth is, they're still just adolescents. I know that who I was at 20 was completely different from who I was at 25.

Interestingly, most 20 year olds who play QB for major college programs exhibit far greater maturity than Manziel. It's very kind of you to explain his behavior away on speculation about his neuroanatomy, but I suspect personality factors play a much stronger role.

I'm not trying to suggest that he's particularly bright for a 20 year old, or that he's an average representative of the group. I'm trying to suggest that 20 year olds still grow and get more mature. Maybe he only grows a little and remains a particularly stupid 25-year-old. Maybe he grows a lot and becomes an average member of society. I have no idea, but neither does anyone else. All I can say at this point is that it's practically a certainty that he will continue to grow and mature.

To use an analogy, you can point to a particularly scrawny 18 year old 1-star recruit and say that he's too scrawny to ever be anything, and I might respond that at 18, you can't yet rule out a growth spurt. Sure, lots of scrawny 18-year-old 1-star recruits grow up to be scrawny 23-year-old insurance salesmen. Not all of them, though. Some scrawny 18-year-old 1-star recruits grow up to be J.J. Watt, or Eric Fisher. Some guys just happen to be late bloomers. Johnny Manziel is far too young for us to be calling him a finished product and closing the book on him.

I have seen enough trust fund kids that act like Manziel at 20 to know that their behavior will never ever change. They grew up insulated and getting everything that want.