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johnny manziel immaturity. (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter loqutis
- Start date
Dinsy Ejotuz
Footballguy
He might as well be standing in the middle of the street burning piles of cash. What an idiot.
Adam Harstad
Moderator
In my experience, 20 year olds, as a group, are not usually known for their maturity. The human prefrontal cortex isn't finished developing until around age 25- at age 20, it's about halfway between where it is in a 13 year old and where it is in a fully grown adult. The prefrontal cortex is responsible for inhibiting impulses, planning behavior, and working towards a long-term goal. Also, the reward centers of the brain go nuts at puberty and takes at least a decade to settle back down, which is why teenage boys do crazy stupid things.
We grant adult rights and responsibilities to 18-year-olds and expect them to behave like 40-year-old men, but the truth is, they're still just adolescents. I know that who I was at 20 was completely different from who I was at 25.
We grant adult rights and responsibilities to 18-year-olds and expect them to behave like 40-year-old men, but the truth is, they're still just adolescents. I know that who I was at 20 was completely different from who I was at 25.
Adam Harstad
Moderator
The prefrontal cortex is in charge of higher-level executive reasoning. Johnny Manziel knows what's at stake, but seems to do a very bad job at balancing short-term payoffs against long-term payoffs. That's exactly what you'd expect to see from someone whose reward centers are lighting up like a Christmas tree, and whose ability to delay gratification is still just half developed. There are a number of conditions that can exacerbate this problem, too. God help Johnny Manziel if he happens to be ADHD on top of everything else.
It's just unfair as adults to judge adolescents by how we would react to those situations. If I were in Johnny Manziel's shoes, I'd put my head down, work my butt off, and get myself a contract that would set my grandchildren up for life, but again, I'm a full-grown man. If I were 20 years old and in Johnny Manziel's shoes, I'd probably be drinking beer, chasing tail, and selling autographs, too. I certainly don't have a very high opinion of my 20-year-old self. It's also unfair to think that Johnny Manziel the 5-year NFL vet will be the same guy as Johnny Manziel the 20-year-old reigning Heisman Trophy winner. Neurologically speaking, he'll be a different person.
I really wonder what we would have found out about guys like Dan Marino, John Elway, Troy Aikman, or even Peyton Manning if they'd come of age in the Twitter era. How many Hall of Fame QBs were immature idiots at 20? How many of them were lucky to grow up in an era where their every move wasn't scrutinized at a national level, like Johnny Manziel or, say, Matt Leinert (you mean he was in a hot tub with beautiful women? I'm sure he's the first NFL quarterback who ever found himself in such a situation!)
Man of Zen
Footballguy
He's not being judged against his future self, nor against the pool of 25 year olds. He's being judged against his peers.
It's not unfair to criticize him for being a dumb ### at his age, because there are going to be plenty of alternatives who aren't being dumb asses. Just as there always have.
Long Ball Larry
Footballguy
Ok good.
Long Ball Larry
Footballguy
Adam Harstad
Moderator
Maurice Clarett still got drafted. So did Terrelle Pryor. Cam Newton stole a laptop, was kicked out of the University of Florida by a coach who allegedly helped Aaron Hernandez cover up multiple run-ins with the police, allegedly solicited money from a school recruiting him, declared for the NFL after a single year as a starter, and then proudly announced to the assembled masses at the combine that he didn't think of himself as an athlete so much as an entertainer and an icon. For his troubles, he was selected with the #1 overall pick. Marvin Austin, Robert Quinn, and Greg Little were both drafted in the first two rounds in the NFL after being suspended for an entire season by UNC. Titus Young was a second rounder despite having more red flags than a Canada Day Parade in Ottowa.
The NFL doesn't care if Manziel is mentally developed compared to others at his position. The NFL cares if he can run fast, throw straight, and read a defense.
Judge Smails
Footballguy
He'll be in the CFL, where he belongs...
coolnerd
Footballguy
Your post proves the point. Of these guys who were more immature than the other immature 20 year olds, only Cam Newton has assembled anything that looks like an above average NFL career. Well, hernandez was also until said immaturity caught up with him.
loqutis
Footballguy
Pryor was a 3rd round Suplemental draft pick. Sure, take that kind of risk on Manziel. But not a high draft pick. And someone has an issue with The Buckeyes and isn't afraid yo show it.
If Gino Smith and Ryan Mallett fell as far as they did, because of character concerns, Manziel better brace himself for a day two selection.
If Gino Smith and Ryan Mallett fell as far as they did, because of character concerns, Manziel better brace himself for a day two selection.
loqutis
Footballguy
Adam Harstad
Moderator
The point was only to prove that NFL GMs don't care about red flags or immaturity if they think you're talented enough, and the fact that all of those players were drafted high proves it. If you'd rather, I can list plenty of other guys with questionable backgrounds who went on to have solid-to-spectacular careers. Luis Castillo tested positive for steroids at the combine and still went in the 1st round. Peyton Manning sexually assaulted a female trainer in college. Randy Moss got kicked out of Florida State (FLORIDA STATE!) for smoking weed while on probation. Percy Harvin was barred from competing in high school sports in the state of Virginia. Brandon Marshall was arrested in college for assaulting an officer. I can't even count the number of NFL players who were suspended at some point during college for violation of team rules or failed drug tests.
At the end of the day, GMs don't care if you sign autographs, do drugs, thumb your nose at the NCAA rulebook, taunt your opponents, get stupid drunk at parties, get into fights at the local nightclub, or anything else. If they think you can play, they'll draft you. If you prove them right, they'll start you. If you're good enough, they'll turn a blind eye if you get convicted of obstruction of justice in a murder trial, or go to prison for conspiracy to distribute cocaine, or twice get accused of sexual assault, or go to jail for illegal possession of a firearm.
If some GM thinks Johnny Manziel can play at the NFL level, that GM is going to draft him.
Time Kibitzer
Footballguy
Not gonna lie, that'd be spectacular to see. He's got literally the perfect skillset for a CFL QB.
kegger
Footballguy
He's got nothing to worry about regarding what he's done to make it in the minds of the NFL.
Guy's older than him have done far worse and gotten paid with large and extended contracts.
If you seriously think what he's done is so bad and so far beyond what others at his age have done/do you haven't seen much
It all comes down to ability, If he can play when the NFL comes along then they'll be callin with arms wide!
Guy's older than him have done far worse and gotten paid with large and extended contracts.
If you seriously think what he's done is so bad and so far beyond what others at his age have done/do you haven't seen much
It all comes down to ability, If he can play when the NFL comes along then they'll be callin with arms wide!
Phenix
Footballguy
In a thread talking about maturity there isn't an awful lot in this thread. He is in college and plays football, didn't know you had to be a model citizen cuz the media and FBG says you have to.
I'm sure Johnny is busy giving a damn what you all think anyways in between him winning a Heisman, banging hot chicks, and loving life. Not everything is about football 24/7, even for 20 year olds going to school to play it.
Where else could I come to hear people talk smack because they are upset someone is out having fun instead of sitting up at 3am looking at his playbook? FBG or ESPN, its all the same anymore.
Sports are not sports anymore, people love the drama off the field too much. Does he throw the ball well on Saturday? Good enough for me.
I'm sure Johnny is busy giving a damn what you all think anyways in between him winning a Heisman, banging hot chicks, and loving life. Not everything is about football 24/7, even for 20 year olds going to school to play it.
Where else could I come to hear people talk smack because they are upset someone is out having fun instead of sitting up at 3am looking at his playbook? FBG or ESPN, its all the same anymore.
Sports are not sports anymore, people love the drama off the field too much. Does he throw the ball well on Saturday? Good enough for me.
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karmarooster
Footballguy
And if Manziel was 3-4 inches taller and 30-40 pounds heavier, he could do all the same stuff as Cam and still be in the conversation for #1 overall pick. Because he's roughly Drew Brees size, the "character issues" will push him down into the Josh Freeman to Jimmy Clausen range of late 1st to 2nd round. Someone will take a chance, and it won't necessarily be a bad risk, because as you pointed out his brain will develop in a few years and he'll be less of a POS.
But please, Sharkpool, stop making a thread every week whenever this kid does something (else) stupid.
Phenix
Footballguy
What's great is there was a montage of people just bashing Manziel on ESPN. Palmer, May, Holtz, Smith and many others just telling people in TV land how he is a detriment to the team and is a spoiled brat. Did he still help his team win regardless of all that? Fools who put on makeup talking smack about people sweating disgusts me. lol
He is the Heisman winner and the reason this team is even ranked, but he is a detriment to the team. lol
I'm sick and F'n tired of people being forced to act up to other peoples expectations, it's pathetic, I applaud Manziel for giving a middle finger to ESPN, his opponents and #### talkers by his taunting on the field, we need more of it.
In a world where pointing to the scoreboard should shut you up and make you play better to win, we blow a whistle and throw a flag instead. We have gone soft... A Society of Wusses.
All this because people are mad he tried to make money by writing his own name, forget the rule is stupid, we say its "still a rule and it should be followed." Nope, it is a rule that should be disregarded and disrespected by every student athlete. You are not property, do not allow yourself to be treated like it. I do not give a damn about the so called free education they get, education should be free for all anyways.
He is the Heisman winner and the reason this team is even ranked, but he is a detriment to the team. lol
I'm sick and F'n tired of people being forced to act up to other peoples expectations, it's pathetic, I applaud Manziel for giving a middle finger to ESPN, his opponents and #### talkers by his taunting on the field, we need more of it.
In a world where pointing to the scoreboard should shut you up and make you play better to win, we blow a whistle and throw a flag instead. We have gone soft... A Society of Wusses.
All this because people are mad he tried to make money by writing his own name, forget the rule is stupid, we say its "still a rule and it should be followed." Nope, it is a rule that should be disregarded and disrespected by every student athlete. You are not property, do not allow yourself to be treated like it. I do not give a damn about the so called free education they get, education should be free for all anyways.
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wormburner
Footballguy
mr roboto
Footballguy
Adam, are you trying to say that immaturity and character issues don't effect a players draft position? I'm not saying he won't get drafted. But you have to be crazy to believe that a QB who may act like a tool and expose the team to tabloids etc. wouldn't negatively impact his draft position. Even half a round or so. Teams absolutely factor maturity into their draft boards.
Man of Zen
Footballguy
Which is excellent advice if his goal is to become a fully actualized human being, willing to take a stand and make great sacrifices in the name of what he believes is right.
But terrible advice if his goal is to become an NFL QB.
I'm not to say if one or the other is right.
Giving up certain freedoms is a part of becoming a professional in almost any field. That's what happens when billionaires run the show, and have to commit to giving big chunks of their money to you if you're going to work for them.I applaud anyone who tells such dictator-tyrants and the media they employ to stuff it. But I totally get it if he gets blackballed for doing so as well.
Maybe he'd rather be a folk hero than an NFL QB. I think that's a valid life choice. Doesn't pay as well, but money ain't everything.
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Touchdown There
Footballguy
I agree. The NCAA is the machine that drives slavery.
Kevin Sumlin needs to step up. Think Manziel would do that stuff if Nick Saban was his coach? How many football players would come off the field and bump into Saban and blow him off. Sumlin says he never saw the fake autograph signing stunt, well he sure as heck should have seen it by now or at least when watching film. Sumlin should sit him out another half for acting like an idiot.
MoveToSkypager
Footballguy
Saban would do about the same thing Sumlin do if he were coaching A&M this year. Anyone could bench him if they coached Alabama right now. They have 5* players 3 deep at every position.
Dinsy Ejotuz
Footballguy
In fact it's getting to the point you have to wonder if he's trying to sabotage himself. It's been one long string of fairly minor problems that add up to a guy with a bigger issue IMO.
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32 Counter Pass
Footballguy
I am willing to give me the benefit of doubt at this point due to his youth. I have concerns, but I also like his competitive nature. He just needs to learn how to channel it more appropriately, which may come with age. Time will tell.
Hoss Style
Footballguy
We can blame it on his cortex or his fame or the NCAA and their silly rules or whatever - but there are tons of kids (20 year old "kids") with FAR more on their shoulders that make FAR better choices everyday. Kids who come from poor backgrounds that aren't good at sports that work, go to school, pay for their school and sometimes even help support their families. I'm not buying into the "he's only a kid" argument. I think he's a young man that doesn't really know what he has, right now, as far as opportunities go.
But he's got money, so maybe he's not worried about that. Maybe being an NFL QB isn't at the top of his list. And that's OK. But if that is his dream, then an NFL team has every right to look at him and see that he's making choices that many other potential NFL QBs are not. And that could hurt him in the draft.
But he's got money, so maybe he's not worried about that. Maybe being an NFL QB isn't at the top of his list. And that's OK. But if that is his dream, then an NFL team has every right to look at him and see that he's making choices that many other potential NFL QBs are not. And that could hurt him in the draft.
Koya
Footballguy
Yeah, the apologists who are trying to excuse the behavior just because the kid's young seem way off base here. Yes, we were all a bit more stupid when we were 20. I'm judging him not as a 45 year old, but as a 20 year old when I've seen 15 year olds have far more of a sense of responsibility, of being a gentlement, of self respect and respect of others.
In fact it's getting to the point you have to wonder if he's trying to sabotage himself. It's been one long string of fairly minor problems that add up to a guy with a bigger issue IMO.
So please, stop with the 'he's 20' crying. Just about ever 20 year old I know is somewhat stupid - and they fall so far short of John-Me Football's entitled, selfish arrogance that his pathetic lack of character (at least from what we can see / know of him) shines like a beacon of immaturity even when viewed within the context of what you can expect from an immature period of life.
jurb26
Footballguy
Totally agree. The kids an entitled brat. His immaturity is being gaged against peers, not middle aged men. He stands out as immature while standing in a group of immature folks. The fact that some are defending this is funny to me.Yeah, the apologists who are trying to excuse the behavior just because the kid's young seem way off base here. Yes, we were all a bit more stupid when we were 20. I'm judging him not as a 45 year old, but as a 20 year old when I've seen 15 year olds have far more of a sense of responsibility, of being a gentlement, of self respect and respect of others.
In fact it's getting to the point you have to wonder if he's trying to sabotage himself. It's been one long string of fairly minor problems that add up to a guy with a bigger issue IMO.
So please, stop with the 'he's 20' crying. Just about ever 20 year old I know is somewhat stupid - and they fall so far short of John-Me Football's entitled, selfish arrogance that his pathetic lack of character (at least from what we can see / know of him) shines like a beacon of immaturity even when viewed within the context of what you can expect from an immature period of life.
Da Guru
Fair & Balanced
On his second run when he was tackled pretty hard he got up and was jaw-jacking the guy who tackled him. The annoucers even said "Wait,..are QBs not allowed to be tackled now?"
I think Johnny Dooshbag needs a private session with James Harrison.
I think Johnny Dooshbag needs a private session with James Harrison.
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KellysHeroes
Footballguy
It depends on how he does during his combine interviews go, but the Raiders or Chargers are still going to take him so no worries.
Seems to be at the same maturity level as the NCAA
Seems to be at the same maturity level as the NCAA
Bronco Billy
Footballguy
at all the psychological mumbo jumbo. He's an adult and his behavior is equivalent to taking loads of money - maybe millions- throwing it in a pile, pouring gas on it, and setting it on fire.He's got a skill set that might intrigue some GMs. But his behavior will drive his draft stock down, probably way down. We've all seen guys with bad character drafted, but we've also all seen guys with tremendous assets drop down - and sometimes off - draft boards due to character issues. A lot of GMs are really factoring risk into their decisions.
So make all the excuses you want, but the guy is an adult, is acting like a horse's ###, and there is a good probability his behavior will drive his stock down and cost him a lot of money. Wonder if he'll think his behavior will be so cute come the time when he's sitting in the green room all by himself wondering why he hasn't been picked yet.
Koya
Footballguy
Apparently, that quality can not be correctly ascertained until you are 25. You can volunteer to join the army, die for our country, be tried as an adult & executed and vote at 18.
But you have 7 more years to be a world class jerkoff (that's perhaps the nicest word I could find for it) until someone can call you out for it.
Adam Harstad
Moderator
This is quite sensationalistic, don't you think? Signing autographs and taunting the opposition don't exactly seem like precursors to serial homicide to me.
Adam Harstad
Moderator
Yes, red flags will get him pushed down the draft board. Had Andrew Luck gotten suspended for smoking pot, maybe Griffin would have gone #1 and Luck gone #2. If Terrelle Pryor hadn't gotten suspended, maybe there's a chance he pulls a Pat White and sneaks into the second. If Da'Rick Rogers wasn't a serial idiot, he probably gets drafted. If Tyrann Mathieu wasn't a serial idiot, who knows, maybe he makes it into the first round. These things absolutely matter.
At the end of the day, though, if NFL GMs think he's the next Robert Griffin, they'll take him in the first. If NFL teams don't take him in the first, that's probably more an indictment of his perceived ability than it is of his perceived maturity- like karmarooster pointed out, Cam Newton gets much more leeway because he's 3 inches taller and 30 pounds heavier. Especially because NFL teams aren't dummies- they know that 20-year-old kids are going to get smarter and more mature. And most especially of all because Johnny Manziel's "maturity issues" are practically a non-issue, as far as the NFL is concerned. Name the last NFL player to get suspended for taunting or signing autographs. In college, these are huge boogeymen because they attack the very (stupid) idea of "amateurism" and the "purity of the game". In the NFL... who cares? Chad Ochocinco and Terrell Owens were taunting fools. Their coaches didn't necessarily like it, but how many games did they miss because of it? If Johnny Manziel continues being an idiot in the league, it'll cost him a lot of cash and it'll cost his team a half-dozen 15 yard penalties, but how's that any different than what Ndamakong Suh brings to the table?
I'd imagine Manziel's draft stock would be far more impacted by repeated failed drug tests or night club altercations than it would by whatever nonsense he's been getting himself into.
KellysHeroes
Footballguy
hes not using PCP or ordering the murder of people around him; plus I saw it as him taunting the system instead of just the opponent. Pretty amusing IMO.
McGarnicle
Footballguy
I'd pay big money for his autograph though.
mr roboto
Footballguy
. My fear is that the bolder above is much more probable given his arrogance and clear lack of ability to lay low. In other words, an arrogant kid who clearly believes he's above it all, may only right now be displaying this through thumbing his nose @ the NCAA. But it also raises the possibility that this hyper arrogance would manifest itself in greater and greater folly. Pride and arrogance on the field may lead to a gunslinger style if play. Off the field, it leads to reckless behavior. Smoke often leads to fire.
