Sabertooth
Footballguy
How does his recent surgery effect his draft stock? Second rounder now? Late first? He'd make sense in Green Bay. Ted showed that he looks long term last season when he drafted the injured Justin Harrell in round one.
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Jonathan Stewart (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter ImTheScientist
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Chaos Commish
Footballguy
My bad, it wasn't at the Combine. Duckett ran a highly publicized 4.38 in his private workout. It was the reason he went RB2 in the first round and moved ahead of Deshaun Foster and Clinton Portis. ~link~
yellowdog
Footballguy
I think the link I gave was for his pro-day at Michigan St. I don't think he ran at the combine.
Sabertooth
Footballguy
Either way it shows that Duckett's straight line speed is pretty irrelevant. It hasn't translated to NFL production. Back to Stewart, he looks like Fred Taylor out there. I know some of that is the number 28 but also in body style. I don't think he's as fast as Fred was coming into the league but he has that same look.
I like him. I think that him sliding down due to injury could land him on little bit better team such as Seattle, San Diego, Dallas, or Green Bay.
If Stewart were healthy, where would he go range-wise? I am thinking in the 12-22 third of the draft. Is this correct?
I like him. I think that him sliding down due to injury could land him on little bit better team such as Seattle, San Diego, Dallas, or Green Bay.
If Stewart were healthy, where would he go range-wise? I am thinking in the 12-22 third of the draft. Is this correct?
Chaos Commish
Footballguy
I agree Duckett comparisons are irrelevant. I just wanted to point out how fast TJ ran. It's a fun piece of draft trivia is all.I also agree with Fred Taylor comparison. I have said that for a long time. They are very similar runners, with very similar body types and very similar injury concerns.. And that's a compliment coming from me. Taylor is a 10,000 yard back who's never been given the credit he deserved because of the injury history. Imagine if he was healthier the beast he would have been. Stewart has that kind of upside. The what if of Fred Taylor. Fred was crazy fast for his size, but I think a healthy Stewart is as fast or possibly faster. I am not going to lock in Stewart's speed to one 40 at the Combine. Stewart was a Pac 10 60 meter champ. He posted sub 4.4 40s for three straight springs on healthy toes in Oregon. The Combine time was on a toe needing immediate surgery. He is faster than he is getting credit for, faster than Mendenhall. He hasn't always flashed it on the field, not in traffic like McFadden does, but once clear, Stewart is usually impossible to catch.If healthy I think he had a realistic shot at RB1. Waldman, Bloom and EBF all rank him that way. We're in a thread dedicated to the concept. It isn't a reach to suspect several NFL teams grade him the same way. I prefer McFadden myself, but 32 franchises rarely fall in line on one player in a varied and talented group like this. Denver and few other teams openly stated they preferred Maroney to Bush. Almost no one in the media, draftnik and fan base saw Maroney over Bush, yet a few NFL teams sure did. This year is probably a case of the top 3 backs all being top ranked by someone, with Stewart's toe the big unknown. Even with the surgery I think 12-22 is the range Stewart should go in, even higher if given a great prognosis. If Dallas passes at 22 I will be disappointed and surprised.
Chachi
Footballguy
This made me think of a Stewart/Dallas video I just watched recently. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ty7jBj5waIM
Maroney=Speed
Footballguy
I still hear Dallas is moving up, IF McFadden is there at 6, Dallas will trade up. If not at 22 Dallas will take best Back. F.Jones seems like the pick.At 28th corner or safety. Should be interesting.
Sabertooth
Footballguy
Excellent video. Thanks for posting it.
Rodeojones
Footballguy
Wildman
Footballguy
Watching Mayock break down the tape, I thought he was a bit too critical of Stewart on two runs. The first was the zone play where Stewart had to show a lot of patience for the lane to open at the sideline. Mayock expected to see Stewart jet through the hole at top speed the moment it opened. Mayock is right about this expectation. The problem is very few--I mean maybe Chris Johnson if he had the patience to wait for the hole, which he sometimes lacks--would have been able to beat the DB at that angle. Especially when the RB has to keep a small step size and slower pace to allow the blocks to develop first. I think Mayock is speculating a bit too much on that one. Projecting what the speed needs to be on a run this tight is a tough call.
Then there's the expectation of him to run through the two players coming from different directions. While I agree that Stewart could have been more decisive with a lowering his shoulders and just hitting it really hard and splitting the two defenders, Mayock is maybe a bit too critical.
Still, I'd rather have an evaluator list a number of small issues to see what the possible deficiencies are with a player's game. It's clear that despite the criticism, there's not much you can pick at about Stewart's game.
Then there's the expectation of him to run through the two players coming from different directions. While I agree that Stewart could have been more decisive with a lowering his shoulders and just hitting it really hard and splitting the two defenders, Mayock is maybe a bit too critical.
Still, I'd rather have an evaluator list a number of small issues to see what the possible deficiencies are with a player's game. It's clear that despite the criticism, there's not much you can pick at about Stewart's game.
Chaos Commish
Footballguy
About six posts up I said I thought a healthy Stewart had a realistic shot of being RB1 in the draft. I now believe it will happen -- Stewart before McFadden.
Seven out of ten NFL teams agree, including the five most important ones.
The last time I listed rankings, I had McFadden and Stewart alone in the top tier. I'm not wavering on what I expect from McFadden. I'm realizing I underestimated Stewart. Some of the McFadden doubters probably should rethink their opinions too. I believe my revised mock, about a month old now, is the only one I've seen project Stewart first, but we should start seeing it some in the last days here. Certainly, they could go either way. Mendenhall belongs on top of the next tier, or in tier 2 alone. It is Stewart or McFadden, the big 2 -- two very different players who will be fun to follow.
If it happens, Stewart going first, I won't take credit for any you heard it here firsts, despite the month old mock projecting it. EBF was the first I saw suggest it, and my comment was -- if it happens, it isn't because Stewart had some post-season rise in value. His value was clear and on film. He has always had higher value, the media was wrong, EBF (Waldman, Bloom, and several in this thread), had it right.
So... this is new. Stewart goes first, where does he go? Where does McFadden go? My mock had Stewart to Denver and McFadden to Chicago. Both out of the top 10.
Seven out of ten NFL teams agree, including the five most important ones.
The last time I listed rankings, I had McFadden and Stewart alone in the top tier. I'm not wavering on what I expect from McFadden. I'm realizing I underestimated Stewart. Some of the McFadden doubters probably should rethink their opinions too. I believe my revised mock, about a month old now, is the only one I've seen project Stewart first, but we should start seeing it some in the last days here. Certainly, they could go either way. Mendenhall belongs on top of the next tier, or in tier 2 alone. It is Stewart or McFadden, the big 2 -- two very different players who will be fun to follow.
If it happens, Stewart going first, I won't take credit for any you heard it here firsts, despite the month old mock projecting it. EBF was the first I saw suggest it, and my comment was -- if it happens, it isn't because Stewart had some post-season rise in value. His value was clear and on film. He has always had higher value, the media was wrong, EBF (Waldman, Bloom, and several in this thread), had it right.
So... this is new. Stewart goes first, where does he go? Where does McFadden go? My mock had Stewart to Denver and McFadden to Chicago. Both out of the top 10.
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Chaos Commish
Footballguy
If this is correct, Stewart goes first, another interesting angle develops. JJ said if McFadden fell out of the top ten, that would be what it would take for him to consider moving up for him.
EBF
Footballguy
Didn't Goselin's mock have Stewart at 1.12 to Denver? That coupled with this PFW story lends some credence to the idea that his stock is much higher than public perception would indicate. I wouldn't be surprised by this if it weren't for the toe surgery and the rumors of falling stock. Theoretically, he could go as high as 1.06 to NYJ. The more likely scenario is NE (apparently), CIN, DEN, CHI, DET, or ARI.
I doubt McFadden will slip out of the top 10. I figure OAK, NYJ, NE, or CIN will snap him up.
We'll know soon.
I doubt McFadden will slip out of the top 10. I figure OAK, NYJ, NE, or CIN will snap him up.
We'll know soon.
rabidfireweasel
Footballguy
I think if NE went RB, they would want a compliment to Maroney, a smaher between the tackles. Sammy Morris was that guy, but he is 30+. marginally talented and coming off a season ending injury. NE has won SB's with a hammer type rb. The closest three that fit the bill are Stewart, Forte, and to a lesser degree Ray Rice (great inside runner). If Rice or Forte are available in early round 3, I could see NE going there.
Chaos Commish
Footballguy
I'm guessing this comment is addressing the last bit in my link about Stewart. New England is very hard to project. They could do everything. If it's bpa, I think the comment about Stewart could have merit. They drafted 1st round TEs two years in a row then drafted a few more the next year. They could absolutely take Stewart off the market early in the 1st and get their corner later.
rabidfireweasel
Footballguy
I think all of the corner projections are wrong. They could have locked up Samuel for similar money that they will pay the number 7 pick who will be unproven. NE will not draft a player at seven that doesn't match that grade/ salary scale. Stewart seems to match size, measurables, production and the ability to play hurt as well as anyone.
ConstruxBoy
Kate's Daddy
Would the Cowboys trade both firsts to Buffalo at 11 to get ahead of Denver?
Maroney=Speed
Footballguy
There trying to get up to 1.04. So I don't see why they wouldn't go up to 1.11. If there guy is still there.So I would say Yes.ConstruxBoy said:
Chaos Commish
Footballguy
You know I love McFadden and it would be fun (as long as EBF and Waldman are dead wrong about him) having him in Dallas. They could use some serious speed on that offense. I believe I read the two firsts could vault them into the middle of the top ten, but Jerry doesn't want to pay for one of those very high picks, so moving up but not to the top ten made a little more sense (paraphrasing him here). It would probably be packaged a little more complicated than both firsts for one higher first. They seem willing to deal a few players if necessary, and I suspect they'd gladly back off into the second with the one of the firsts. Something like that. However, I've never been convinced that Jerry has an honest affinity for McFadden (or Felix, the whole Arkansas thing is lame to me). It was ONE seat of the pants, almost glib comment in response to a prompt about McFadden and the Cleveland pick. What was he supposed to say, no way? I've been thinking for awhile they may be happier with the RBs they see late in the first or early in the second, and a move up for a corner and a corresponding move down for an RB like Felix or Johnson or Rice or Charles might make the most sense. Plenty of backs should fall and only a few very highly regarded corners available.Back to Stewart though. Did the PFW piece make you reconsider him at #4? It's perfectly okay to be fickle this time of year. The idea is to get it right.ConstruxBoy said:
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ConstruxBoy
Kate's Daddy
LOL, well I think talent wise he has always been higher than that for me. I was pretty high on him in my BDTT article. But I have to admit I'm worried about the ankle issues throughout his career. He is a very big man who is fast and makes quick cuts. I could see him having injury issues much more often than I see of McFadden, Mendenhall or Rice. Now I know he is tough and has been playing through injuries and running at the combine. But I still worry about that with the combination of his size, running style, and load in college. Call me crazy. But I did move him back ahead of McFadden.You know I love McFadden and it would be fun (as long as EBF and Waldman are dead wrong about him) having him in Dallas. They could use some serious speed on that offense. I believe I read the two firsts could vault them into the middle of the top ten, but Jerry doesn't want to pay for one of those very high picks, so moving up but not to the top ten made a little more sense (paraphrasing him here). It would probably be packaged a little more complicated than both firsts for one higher first. They seem willing to deal a few players if necessary, and I suspect they'd gladly back off into the second with the one of the firsts. Something like that. However, I've never been convinced that Jerry has an honest affinity for McFadden (or Felix, the whole Arkansas thing is lame to me). It was ONE seat of the pants, almost glib comment in response to a prompt about McFadden and the Cleveland pick. What was he supposed to say, no way? I've been thinking for awhile they may be happier with the RBs they see late in the first or early in the second, and a move up for a corner and a corresponding move down for an RB like Felix or Johnson or Rice or Charles might make the most sense. Plenty of backs should fall and only a few very highly regarded corners available.Back to Stewart though. Did the PFW piece make you reconsider him at #4? It's perfectly okay to be fickle this time of year. The idea is to get it right.ConstruxBoy said:
yinzer
Footballguy
hmm..thats interesting..I find them to have similar skill sets, but see Mendenhall having more power, vision, and acceleration..not to mention, I think he's a better blocker and receiver, which in Detroits offense I would think make that decision easier..got a link EBF?ETA: Not to mention Mendenhall not having and injury record compared to Stewart's that nearly rivals Chris Henry's rap sheet. You'd think after Kev Jones' injury woes they'd consider that.I read another piece today saying the Lions prefer Stewart to Mendenhall and that Stewart could be the RB2. I'm not sure how accurate that info is.
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EBF
Footballguy
I don't recall where I read it. Sorry.hmm..thats interesting..I find them to have similar skill sets, but see Mendenhall having more power, vision, and acceleration..not to mention, I think he's a better blocker and receiver, which in Detroits offense I would think make that decision easier..got a link EBF?I read another piece today saying the Lions prefer Stewart to Mendenhall and that Stewart could be the RB2. I'm not sure how accurate that info is.
EBF
Footballguy
I agree. I think Mendenhall would be a logical fit for them given their apparent desire to pound the football.Stewart has more upside than Mendenhall, but he comes with more risk.
ConstruxBoy
Kate's Daddy
EBF
Footballguy
So would you say that Stewart has a higher ceiling and a lower floor?
yinzer
Footballguy
I agree with that, but I dont because outside of Peterson and Jackson, I think Mendenhall could be the best RB of the last 5 years. He's got a skill package, like dare I say LT, that well rounded and I think his breakout year is just the start an he'll undoubtedly improve as well. Im not saying he's as good or will even push LT, just that he seems to have it all, and with that surprising 40 time, I dont see a knock on the kidSo would you say that Stewart has a higher ceiling and a lower floor?
EBF
Footballguy
I don't think he's quite as explosive as the elite pro backs. I know he broke some long runs here and there, most notably in the Rose Bowl against USC, but I don't think he's really a big play threat. I think he'll become the NFL player Cedric Benson was supposed to be: a 300+ carry grinder who breaks a long run here and there. He should be solid, but the only way I see him becoming an elite pro is if he lands in ideal spot.
Burning Sensation
Footballguy
http://www.rotoworld.com/content/playerpag...NFL&id=4650I don't recall where I read it. Sorry.hmm..thats interesting..I find them to have similar skill sets, but see Mendenhall having more power, vision, and acceleration..not to mention, I think he's a better blocker and receiver, which in Detroits offense I would think make that decision easier..got a link EBF?I read another piece today saying the Lions prefer Stewart to Mendenhall and that Stewart could be the RB2.
I'm not sure how accurate that info is.
A
awesomeness
Guest
For most of those skill sets, it is arguable who is better, i don't see how you can come to the conclusion that mendenhall is better at all the above. And the fact that you think mendenhall has more power than Stewart makes me think you didn't watch Stewart play. No RB in this draft can match the power that Stewart has.hmm..thats interesting..I find them to have similar skill sets, but see Mendenhall having more power, vision, and acceleration..not to mention, I think he's a better blocker and receiver, which in Detroits offense I would think make that decision easier..got a link EBF?I read another piece today saying the Lions prefer Stewart to Mendenhall and that Stewart could be the RB2.
I'm not sure how accurate that info is.
ETA: Not to mention Mendenhall not having and injury record compared to Stewart's that nearly rivals Chris Henry's rap sheet. You'd think after Kev Jones' injury woes they'd consider that.
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yinzer
Footballguy
Basically I think Mendy has more power bc he's uses it more to his advantage..I agree Stew has power, but maybe it goes with Mendy's vision. I think Mendy is more decisive, hits the hole harder and quicker, and has more acceleration thru the hole. Most of what Ive seen correlates with this. Stew at times is more tentative and lacks burst (his return game shows his accel much more often than his rush game).For most of those skill sets, it is arguable who is better, i don't see how you can come to the conclusion that mendenhall is better at all the above. And the fact that you think mendenhall has more power than Stewart makes me think you didn't watch Stewart play. No RB in this draft can match the power that Stewart has.hmm..thats interesting..I find them to have similar skill sets, but see Mendenhall having more power, vision, and acceleration..not to mention, I think he's a better blocker and receiver, which in Detroits offense I would think make that decision easier..got a link EBF?I read another piece today saying the Lions prefer Stewart to Mendenhall and that Stewart could be the RB2.
I'm not sure how accurate that info is.
ETA: Not to mention Mendenhall not having and injury record compared to Stewart's that nearly rivals Chris Henry's rap sheet. You'd think after Kev Jones' injury woes they'd consider that.
A
awesomeness
Guest
I understand that, but i don't see how that explains that mendenhall has more power than JStew. JStew is a power back.Basically I think Mendy has more power bc he's uses it more to his advantage..I agree Stew has power, but maybe it goes with Mendy's vision. I think Mendy is more decisive, hits the hole harder and quicker, and has more acceleration thru the hole. Most of what Ive seen correlates with this. Stew at times is more tentative and lacks burst (his return game shows his accel much more often than his rush game).For most of those skill sets, it is arguable who is better, i don't see how you can come to the conclusion that mendenhall is better at all the above. And the fact that you think mendenhall has more power than Stewart makes me think you didn't watch Stewart play. No RB in this draft can match the power that Stewart has.hmm..thats interesting..I find them to have similar skill sets, but see Mendenhall having more power, vision, and acceleration..not to mention, I think he's a better blocker and receiver, which in Detroits offense I would think make that decision easier..got a link EBF?I read another piece today saying the Lions prefer Stewart to Mendenhall and that Stewart could be the RB2.
I'm not sure how accurate that info is.
ETA: Not to mention Mendenhall not having and injury record compared to Stewart's that nearly rivals Chris Henry's rap sheet. You'd think after Kev Jones' injury woes they'd consider that.
silentmark
Footballguy
gregjcross
Footballguy
IF CAR doesnt go for O-line such as Otah, I belive J. Stewart is a strong possibility for them, especially if they move down a few spots. Fox said they will take an RB in the early going and he fits heir blue collar running philosophy like S. Davis did. THe thunder to Deangelo Williams lightning. Wouldnt surprise me at all.
Good god I hope he doesn't go to the LionsI read another piece today saying the Lions prefer Stewart to Mendenhall and that Stewart could be the RB2. I'm not sure how accurate that info is.
Bob Henry
Footballguy
Tom "Killer" Kowalski, the Lions insider, talked about this last week on the radio. He said, prior to the injury news, the Lions did have Stewart higher than Mendenhall on their board. He doesn't know if that's still the case, but knowing that, I think it does introduce a higher chance of the Lions passing on Mendenhall at 1.15, selecting a DE/LB/OT, then taking Stewart at the right place later. It's eerily similar to how the Lions got Kevin Jones. He slipped, Millen moved up and grabbed him. If Stewart slides into the 2nd round, I have no issues with the Lions taking him there, especially if they get a solid OL/DL with their first pick.Good god I hope he doesn't go to the LionsI read another piece today saying the Lions prefer Stewart to Mendenhall and that Stewart could be the RB2. I'm not sure how accurate that info is.
ninerfan
Footballguy
My thought exactly. I've already seleted Stewart in one of my dynasty leagues (we draft about 3 weeks before the NFL draft).Good god I hope he doesn't go to the LionsI read another piece today saying the Lions prefer Stewart to Mendenhall and that Stewart could be the RB2. I'm not sure how accurate that info is.
yinzer
Footballguy
I agree no way he falls past early-mid 20's, but what does ATL or KC have to do with it. Barring them moving down 10 picks, no way theyre even in the Stewart conversationI wouldnt be shocked if he fell past 15 simply due to all the talent, at OL and DB especially, and bc all those teams looking at him (CAR, CHI, DET, ARZ, HOU) all have other glaring needs as well, and probably even more glaring than RB except for maybe HOU
King of the Wolfies
Footballguy
I'm seeing more and more mocks with Stewart going to Dallas at 22. As a Barber owner, I would be pissed about that. I would have liked to see him go to the Texans, but I hear they lost interest due to the toe. But that could all be a smokescreen.
No. 16
Footballguy
After watching film... I'm torn between Mendenhall and Stewart as my #1 RB. I have DMC now at #3.
As of right now I have them ranked...
1. Mendenhall - great blend of speed/power/jukes but more on the finesse side
2. Stewart - Great blend of speed/power/jukes but more on the power side
3. DMC - Pure speed back, no jukes, good hands. If he lands in a situation with a great O-Line he'll live up to the hype. He can't grind yards for himself.
As of right now I have them ranked...
1. Mendenhall - great blend of speed/power/jukes but more on the finesse side
2. Stewart - Great blend of speed/power/jukes but more on the power side
3. DMC - Pure speed back, no jukes, good hands. If he lands in a situation with a great O-Line he'll live up to the hype. He can't grind yards for himself.
yinzer
Footballguy
I was going to add DAL, but most everything Ive seen has them taking Jones or a DB. Stew is very similar to MB3, not that it would necessarily make any worse of a 2-back system, but it'd be different than most combos these days that offer variability between backs.I personally think DAL will take a DB at 22 bc the Jenkins', Talibs', and Cromartie's wont be available at 28 where Jones should be. who knows though
gianmarco
Footballguy
What I think people aren't realizing is that there are more teams that could potentiall grab Stewart in the 1st round than the ones with an obvious need at RB. There are rumors that he is high enough on enough team's boards that he may go earlier than expected to an "unexpected" team if they have him rated high enough. I don't think he's just limited to go to the teams with obvious RB needs which seems to be the overriding assumption here.
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Rodeojones
Footballguy
Chaos Commish
Footballguy
I could see Mendenhall and/or McFadden falling before Stewart. I read an interveiw where Stewart addressed the injury issue. I believe it is a non-issue in his grade at this point. If that's correct, it alone should grade him higher than Mendenhall. Stewart is a more impressive version of Mendenhall in every category, imo. I stand by what I said above. I think Stewart has a very good chance of going before McFadden. I can't envision a scenario where he slips past Dallas at 22, though they've been choking on first rounders lately.
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