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Josh Gordon - August 1, 2016 (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter Soulfly3
- Start date
Soulfly3
Footballguy
Hankmoody
Footballguy
The Man With No Name
Footballguy
The NFL has until April 3rd to reinstate him or not.
Soulfly3
Footballguy
i don't think "the internet will explode". it's pretty much assumed he'll be back. The question is if he's still a top talent. Seems like he should be good to go, but we'll have to see.
Hankmoody
Footballguy
I don't hate books. I am fine with books. I think books will make a comeback, and have actually recently acquired quite a few copies of books. However, I am approaching it with caution rather than blindly charging in, and am still investing in other less risky media
Enough of that stupid metaphor. I'm on record saying I believe he'll be reinstated, and I've acquired him in a couple of leagues. I'd love nothing more than to see him succeed, as I like seeing the home town team do well being from Northern Ohio originally and now own him in quite a few leagues. I just differ in that I recognize the risks with him are significant and even IF he gets reinstated AND stays clean he still has to answer for the stinker of a season he had in 2014 and now the QB questions of the current regime.
Enough of that stupid metaphor. I'm on record saying I believe he'll be reinstated, and I've acquired him in a couple of leagues. I'd love nothing more than to see him succeed, as I like seeing the home town team do well being from Northern Ohio originally and now own him in quite a few leagues. I just differ in that I recognize the risks with him are significant and even IF he gets reinstated AND stays clean he still has to answer for the stinker of a season he had in 2014 and now the QB questions of the current regime.
Hankmoody
Footballguy
I"ll meet you down by the crick behind Miller's Hardware just as soon as I'm done whitewashing the barn for paw. No kickin' no bytin' no scratchin' and no hair pullin'
Soulfly3
Footballguy
Chaka
Footballguy
Good point. Moody seems to be significantly past bearish on Gordon. To the point that I also wonder why he bothers posting in this thread. Reminds me of a, significantly more toned down, Tanner in super hero movie threads (seriously Tanner if you despise super hero movies that much why post in every single thread about them?). Like Tanner, Moody seems like a good dude, and he's roots for the right NFL team, but clearly he has his pressure point, and he seems to go out of his way to be pessimistic about Gordon when all the objective signs are very positive. Gordon seems to be lining up for one of the redemption stories that Americans love almost as much as tearing down our idols.
My guess is that it has more to do with a dislike of soulfly than anything about Gordon, and I can totally dig that SF rubs people the wrong way, he is way over the top in here no doubt, but I have always seen that as harmless, and entertaining, shtick.
Either way I am four glasses of wine in at this point (Otis=
)...you guys, and alleged girls, are all awesome.
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What's "Wowwwwwwwww" about that?
He's practicing beating a jam...I'm going to go out on a limb and say he's not the only WR doing that.
Again, tweets, snapchats, instagrams, comments from his friends about how he looks good, goofy training videos don't mean anything.
Whether he plays like the the 2013 Gordon or the 2014 Gordon is all that will matter.
Hankmoody
Footballguy
I post in this thread because I own Gordon and am interested in seeing substantive updatesGood point. Moody seems to be significantly past bearish on Gordon. To the point that I also wonder why he bothers posting in this thread. Reminds me of a, significantly more toned down, Tanner in super hero movie threads (seriously Tanner if you despise super hero movies that much why post in every single thread about them?). Like Tanner, Moody seems like a good dude, and he's roots for the right NFL team, but clearly he has his pressure point, and he seems to go out of his way to be pessimistic about Gordon when all the objective signs are very positive. Gordon seems to be lining up for one of the redemption stories that Americans love almost as much as tearing down our idols.
My guess is that it has more to do with a dislike of soulfly than anything about Gordon, and I can totally dig that SF rubs people the wrong way, he is way over the top in here no doubt, but I have always seen that as harmless, and entertaining, shtick.
Either way I am four glasses of wine in at this point (Otis=
. Circle jerks of him working out and twitting positive anecdotes aren't substantive. I'm far from bearish on him. That would mean I expect a downward trend. I certainly wouldn't be actively acquiring him if I thought that. I haven't posted a single pessimistic word, I'm just not subscribing to the blind faith prevalent in this thread. I've already said I suspect he's reinstated and I hope that happens soon.If/when the NFL announces he's reinstated - THAT is a positive and THEN I will start being excited.
If/when the Browns get a decent QB I will be confident they have someone that can get him the ball. Last time they had a chance to they drafted Manziel, and the time before that they drafted Weeden. Forgive me if I don't hold my breath here. He was a beast in 2013 with average QB play, but they don't even have that yet. Hell I'd be fine bringing back Hoyer, he had a couple games with Gordon and he got the ball to Hopkins. Sold.
If/when Gordon gets on the field in games and starts beasting, THEN I will get stoked. I had him in 2013, he helped win me a trophy, so I know what he can do when it all comes together. I'd like nothing more than to see that come to fruition again.
grateful zed
Footballguy
georg013
Footballguy
What can you say? I thought he clarified his stance rather nicely. Good post by Hank.
massraider
Footballguy
:micdrop:Hankmoody said:
Chaka
Footballguy
I agree but they can only be viewed as positive.
There has been zero negative news about Gordon, which in and of itself is actually kinda substantive. If he had gone full Blackmon I am pretty sure we would have heard about it already.
Absolutely agree with your 2nd comment. Up to this point, "no news is good news." I believe he will be re-instated, and once OTAs, TC, pre-season starts, perhaps we get some substantive information.
But, I'll re-iterate; his friends saying he looks good, his snapchat showing pictures of him in good shape (which ABSOLUTELY does not equal football shape), him doing MMA workouts, his tweets being positive doesn't mean he will perform at his 2013 levels (nor does it mean he won't); it means he is doing what he needs to do right now.
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DropKick
Footballguy
football fan
Footballguy
Hey Bayhawks, I respectfully disagree (to a point). If there are pictures or documentation showing that Gordon is in good physical shape, that does show some discipline and desire to be a good football player. It might show a desire to change from past behavior.
I do agree with you that being in good shape does not equal good football shape, but it does show some basic discipline and desire on Gordon part. I am not sure how most players can really be in football shape during the off season, everybody's body does need some time to rest and heal.
Some pro football players eat their way out of the NFL, currently Eddie Lacy of Green Bay is over weight and he needs to slim down or he will not be an effective player in the NFL. Gordon may only be in good shape, but that is a lot better than being overweight or obviously out of shape.
I also agree with you that when the OTAs and preseason starts that will tell us if Gordon is really ready to play.
Soulfly3
Footballguy
he'll be in the same football shape as everyone else some OTAs... nay... healthier.
also, funny how photo and video and teammates hyping him and his shape "means nothing" but if he had a roll on his gut, you all wouldnt hesitate to call him a stoner slob.
anyways... im trying to lend ya'll a bit of advice. he's back.
also, funny how photo and video and teammates hyping him and his shape "means nothing" but if he had a roll on his gut, you all wouldnt hesitate to call him a stoner slob.
anyways... im trying to lend ya'll a bit of advice. he's back.
djjosee
Footballguy
Please feel free to quote any of my posts where I called him a stoner slob, or anything to that effect. I'll be happy to own it.
I never did it, though, so good luck searching.
You're so over-the-top with Gordon, you're trying to interpret an emoji on his twitter of a high-five as definitive proof that he's been reinstated by the NFL. You are unable to be objective, & you seem to get argumentative anytime someone doesn't automatically agree with you that his MMA training is irrefutable proof that he's going to put up 2000 yards and 20 TDs.
Soulfly3
Footballguy
I'm not disagreeing with that; but pictures of him in shape, or doing MMA or anything like that doesn't answer any of the REAL questions about him:
1-Will he get reinstated? I believe he will, but his pics/videos/tweets/snapchats don't answer that question.
2-Will he play like he did in 2013 or 2014? Again, (unless you believe his 2014 season was due to not being prepared), none of the nonsense that Soulfly keeps vomiting up in this thread answers that question, either.
Those questions will be answered in time, but they aren't being answered yet.
Soulfly3
Footballguy
Yes, Bayhawks.... See, this is where folks like you just fail to acknowledge the facts.
He was barred from the facilities. From practice. from the play book. from a new coaching staff. from EVERYTHING. Came back past mid season and was supposed to just ball out?
His fault for not being there. No one is arguing that. But giving NO context to those numbers is like giving no context to Dez's or Antonio Brown's #s when their QBs went down.
massraider
Footballguy
There's 200+ kids with no NFL experience about to show up in Indianapolis in specatcular shape.
How is it that other players managed to get back from a suspension, and not be completely useless for a year?
There's also a massive difference between 'balling out', and being a useless slug.
Also, just because no one dispute you every time you make some assertion, doesn't make them facts.
Yes, Soufly.....See, this is where folks like you just fail to be objective.
I didn't say his 2014 was or wasn't due to being prepared, taking the preparation seriously, or anything like that. I'm waiting to make that decision. Waiting until I get some actual NEWS, not the nonsense that you are posting in here.
You keep wanting to paint me with an anti-Gordon brush, but you won't be able to find anything where I am actually being anti-Gordon. I've acknowledged that he has risks, since he is in the NFL's substance abuse program, but I haven't called him a "loser, stoner, alcoholic," etc. I've said that the recent "news" you keep bringing up is worthless, but I haven't said there is any negative news about him either. I've said you have to be concerned about whether he'll be the stud of 2013, or the average WR of 2014, but I haven't said which I expect.
You, however, seem to be completely unable to look at ALL the facts, and are determined to label anyone who isn't as ridiculously in love with Gordon as you as some kind of hater.
Good luck with that.
Chaka
Footballguy
I think it is reasonable to presume that no OTAs, training camp and not being able to practice with the team until week 9 (or whenever) likely had a significant impact on JG's performance in 2014. If he is reinstated (the only real question) the fact that he will be able to participate from the jump is another reason for optimism.
Chaka
Footballguy
I am sure it has happened but off the top of my head I can't think of someone who was suspended and/or away from the team for such an extended time then come back and excelled? IIRC Joey Galloway held out until week 10 a long time ago but I don't remember how he performed upon his return.
That is reasonable, but its also important to note that his performance was better in the first few games he was back. It would also be reasonable to presume that those factors you noted would lessen after he gained more play/practice time. Since that didn't happen (the opposite did), its also fair to say his lack of practice, OTAs, TC, etc isn't the ONLY reason for his play in 2014.
Chaka
Footballguy
I would think the fact that he declined demonstrates the importance of having all the off season program as it relates to conditioning. You make the point that what he does with Jay Glazer isn't football shape, and you're right. Well he certainly wasn't in football shape when he came back in '14 so it seems that it supports your point about lack of conditioning. Then again the fact that he had a great game his first week back supports the notion that when he has his legs he is one of the very best in the game he just didn't have the stamina, IMO, due to the lack of participating in the offseason program and in season practice.
OK, at this point, I think we're talking about 2 different things.
1-football shape; can only be developed through football a regular practice, but most importantly, game action. Absolutely, doing well his 1st game, then fading could indicate a lack of football shape.
2-being familiar w/system, QB, coach, etc. This should have improved as he got more practice & game action. This did not occur.
So, my point remains: not being in football shape, IMO, doesn't completely explain the disparity between his 2013 & 2014 production.
When there us some actual NEWS, I'll be reevaluating my position on him. As it stands now, I'd call him a low-end WR1/high-end WR2, with the potential to be a top-5 WR.
Bracie Smathers
Footballguy
New fantasy rankings out for Walter Football.
Recall that ESPN Mathew Berry had Cleveland WR Josh Gordon ranked 37th.
http://espn.go.com/fantasy/football/story/_/id/14765088/matthew-berry-very-early-2016-fantasy-football-rankings-nfl
37. Josh Gordon
CLE
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Here is the LINK to Walter Football's fantasy WR rankings to compare to the above:
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http://walterfootball.com/fantasy2016widereceivers.php
2016 Fantasy Football Rankings: Wide Receivers
2016 Fantasy Football Rankings - Wide Receivers (Feb. 19):
Read more at http://walterfootball.com/fantasy2016widereceivers.php#L36sPAhmfdz6B2HK.99
Recall that ESPN Mathew Berry had Cleveland WR Josh Gordon ranked 37th.
http://espn.go.com/fantasy/football/story/_/id/14765088/matthew-berry-very-early-2016-fantasy-football-rankings-nfl
37. Josh Gordon
CLE
-------------
Here is the LINK to Walter Football's fantasy WR rankings to compare to the above:
-------------
http://walterfootball.com/fantasy2016widereceivers.php
2016 Fantasy Football Rankings: Wide Receivers
2016 Fantasy Football Rankings - Wide Receivers (Feb. 19):
Read more at http://walterfootball.com/fantasy2016widereceivers.php#L36sPAhmfdz6B2HK.99
So, I'm looking at him far and above the ESPN rankings & similar to the walterfootball rankings, but according to Soulfly, I'm unable to "acknowledge the facts?"
Funny how until YOU just posted this, that wasn't even a topic, much less from these people who you claim called him a burnout failure.
Soulfly3
Footballguy
You must either have a serious persecution complex that you're projecting on behalf of Gordon, or serious reading comprehension issues.
Since you directed this at me, I must be one of the "you all" you're referring to. Please find one post where I said that Gordon is Blackmon, or that he was an irredeemable alcoholic/weed addict, or that his NFL career was over.
DallasDMac
Footballguy
Bayhawks, you seriously haven't caught on to SoulFly being all schtick with this? Seriously, it's been going on for what, a year or so now? I honestly think you may be the only one that doesn't seem to realize this. Perhaps you weren't around for the "early days" when he was much more obvious about it.
I just don't understand why you have to have things be so absolute.Soulfly3 said:
If someone doesn't say only positive things about Gordon, they must want him to fail or underwhelm.
Perhaps that person doesn't "want" him to fail, but really believes that is what will happen.
Or maybe that person isn't convinced that Gordon will be able to repeat his 2013 numbers (they were fairly remarkable numbers; even if Gordon never got suspended, repeating those numbers would have been difficult).
But to you, those aren't possibilities; if someone doesn't agree that Gordon's tweet with a high-five means he will be the #1WR in 2016, he must want him to fail.
