Am I crazy to think this? Small school guy who was supposedly third string coming into the season, 2nd year in, on a bad team but actually has some talent around him on offense.. is it that far fetched to see this guy put up some fantasy relevant numbers? Just look at what Thigpen did last year with even less around him, and in my opinion Thigpen isn't as talented and doesn't possess near the amount of NFL skills. Johnson is very intelligent, accurate, good arm strength, obviously very athletic (he was even going to play some receiver this year) and I think he ran something like a 4.53 at the combine. I think he is definitely worth a flier if you have some room and are in need of a QB.
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Josh Johnson (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter rowmacks
- Start date
thehornet
Footballguy
Worth a flier and may put up similiat numbers if lucky, but completely different type of player/athlete.
PlasmaDogPlasma
Footballguy
I haven't ever seen Johnson play, but I think the important similarity for fantasy owners is the ability to rack rushing yards and TDs.
Yeah I hear that, I'm mainly just comparing the situations. Like I said, I think Johnson has a lot more talent and is a great passer as well as a runner.
thehornet
Footballguy
I think the passing part is yet to be seen. Thigpen is most likely a better passer at this current time. Many questions for Johnson.... Can he do it at NFL gamespeed? Will he be able to find multiple receivers? His running skills will immediately make him the best running QB in the league as soon as he steps on the field. This should be his bread and butter, but it is yet to be seen if it can be succesful week in and week out. Defenses in the NFL are SO fast (as you know) and even the fastest QB's can't outrun defenses with any sort of consistency and keep winning. It's easier to gameplan against then we think.
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Sonny Lubick Blowup Doll
Footballguy
Great? When did he achieve this greatness?
two_dollars
Footballguy
I just want him to give Antonio Bryant a little value.
Yes, that's what I am saying. He's a HOFer. But since you asked:
Link
I don't care if that's flag football, still very impressive.
Sonny Lubick Blowup Doll
Footballguy
So he was "great" compared to below average amateur (college) athletes. Got it.
Ted Lange as your Bartender
Footballguy
So players from non-BCS schools have no chance at success. Got it.
Sonny Lubick Blowup Doll
Footballguy
What? Did somebody say that (I know I didn't); or do you just like to make #### up?
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It might be a nice story but it won't matter when it's time to start him in FFL playoffs. There is no chance that the Bucs, who sadly will likely be about 1-9 after 10 games don't get Josh Freeman some snaps this year. He might help you get a win or two during the FFL season, but with Philly, New England, and Carolina coming up before the bye I'd be surprised to see them win more than one game. After that it is Josh Freeman time.
If you want to gamble on a QB, pick up Leinart and hope for an injury. With STL and DET in the weeks 15 and 16 you have a far more significant chance of hitting a homerun on that gamble than trying on Josh Johnson for size.
If you want to gamble on a QB, pick up Leinart and hope for an injury. With STL and DET in the weeks 15 and 16 you have a far more significant chance of hitting a homerun on that gamble than trying on Josh Johnson for size.
Aardvarks
Footballguy
At first I scoffed at this thread, then I went back and watched the Tampa/NYG game on tiVo- Josh looks pretty spry. I would not be surprised if he put up Thigpen-like numbers.
Tyler Thigpen put up 18 total TDs last year in his last 10 games, scrambling around for an undermanned team. But he had some weapons. Josh needs A. Bryant to be 100% for this comparison to have a chance.
But in deep 12-team leagues or even the rare 14-team league, who knows- Josh Johnson could be useful. I've seen weirder things happen.
Tyler Thigpen put up 18 total TDs last year in his last 10 games, scrambling around for an undermanned team. But he had some weapons. Josh needs A. Bryant to be 100% for this comparison to have a chance.
But in deep 12-team leagues or even the rare 14-team league, who knows- Josh Johnson could be useful. I've seen weirder things happen.
Yellow Line is Unoffcial
Footballguy
If I had to start Josh Johnson I'd shoot myself
Max Power
Footballguy
I do. Ryan and Warner on the same Bye. My only other option is Fatty Russell.
Mr. Retukes
Footballguy
Thigpen didn't just put up 18 total TDs. He also put up 222 passing yards and 33 rushing yards per game and was a top-10 fantasy QB.Aardvarks said:
LittlePhatty
Footballguy
Which begs the question: why isn't he starting somewhere?
Because he helped get his coach fired?I think he was in a good FFL situation because 1: he was always behind.....by a bunch so they had to throw with no running game. 2: Fairly talented WRs/TEs.
Since this thread is a Josh Johnson thread a couple factors are very similar to last year and Thigpen, which could equal FFL success but it will be garbage time stuff. And I'll say again, no way he finishes the season as the starter. The franchise is sitting on the bench and with the terrible record the Bucs are bound to have they have to get him some PT.
Instinctive
Footballguy
Because despite great garbage time fantasy numbers (which I put with DWill for my firts cship) he was, I believe, 1-9 as a starter?In real life football, the teams are more worried about a QB who wins than one who puts up nice Fantasy numbers.
hostile
Footballguy
The previous coaching regime though he would be, so who knows?
Neil Beaufort Zod
Footballguy
He has a better chance to be the Yancey Thigpen of '09. Morris was considering using him at WR before things fell apart and he started rebuilding at QB.rowmacks said:
baconisgood
Footballguy
Freeman was the 17th pick in the draft- thats not the same kind of pressure to play him as a top 5 pick. I see this having a lot of similarity (though not of the QBs playing style) with Cleveland 2 years ago. Quinn was "the franchise" sitting on the bench and whoever won the Frye/Anderson battle was going to just be holding a place until Quinn was ready. Instead Frye "won" it, stunk in the Pitt game and was cut and then DA ended up preforming well above expectation and held the job all year. Don't count out talented guys who get their shot- 1 surprise win early could give him lots more rope.
editor47
Footballguy
Wow. What an arrogant - and incorrect - statement to make. Below average? What level did you play at? Below average amateur athletes can't play collegiately at any level. Division II, Division III, NAIA, let alone Division I-AA. Joe FlaccoBrian WestbrookSteve McNairDonald DriverDexter CoakleyRashean MathisMarcellus WileyJason DunnMatt BirkWayne ChrebetLance SchultersCorey BradfordJimmy SmithDwayne CarswellMike FlynnMarcel ShippScott GraggJerry AzumahKurt WarnerBrad MeesterTerrence McGeeMike GreenShawn BarberLonnie PaxtonJosh McCownOrlando BrownAdam TimmermanSteve HeidenAdam VinatieriJerry WilsonLeo AraguzDerrick BlaylockJeremiah TrotterTerrell OwensBrent AlexanderMichael StrahanBrian FinneranWillie WilliamsRodney HarrisonDarren SharperJeff WilkinsRandy MossChad PenningtonTroy Brown Yeah, none of those guys were any good. Just a couple of Hall of Famers.So I guess Josh Johnson must suck just because he played I-AA.Sonny Lubick Blowup Doll said:
Sonny Lubick Blowup Doll
Footballguy
What are you talking about? Breathe, and re-read my simple point, which you're missing completely because you can't see through all those ruffled feathers. I have nothing against Josh Johnson. Hope he makes it, actually. In fact, I root much more often for the lesser-known players and teams. I could find countless posts proving as much, but I'm not going to take the time you did, it's silly.Look, this is an NFL fantasy football message board. Calling a QB that has 10 attempts and 4 completions in his career a "great passer" is hilarious. If he would've said Josh was great at the level he played, then fine. Maybe I took it wrong.Our definition of amateur might be different, but I am talking about college football players when I say amateur. It sounds like you are including IM's or your stylist in your comparison. As such, he was amongst the ones that couldn't make it at D-1. So that's below average, period. Why you translate that to me saying HE is below average is your problem. Never said it.
Bottom line, your tangent and list about players coming from lower levels has nothing to do with my point. Zero. Show me where I even addressed that. Maybe you got it from the one poster that wrongly implied as much, I don't know, but yet again, I did not even bring that up.
Anyway, "great" is so overused, and that's what gave me a chuckle. Semantics, I guess...
And lol at "what level did you play at?" I played at SC, alongside Anthony Munoz, and I was great.
And Derek Anderson went 10-5. No way on earth the Bucs win that many.
Yellow Line is Unoffcial
Footballguy
Great post.What are you talking about? Breathe, and re-read my simple point, which you're missing completely because you can't see through all those ruffled feathers. I have nothing against Josh Johnson. Hope he makes it, actually. In fact, I root much more often for the lesser-known players and teams. I could find countless posts proving as much, but I'm not going to take the time you did, it's silly.Look, this is an NFL fantasy football message board. Calling a QB that has 10 attempts and 4 completions in his career a "great passer" is hilarious. If he would've said Josh was great at the level he played, then fine. Maybe I took it wrong.
Our definition of amateur might be different, but I am talking about college football players when I say amateur. It sounds like you are including IM's or your stylist in your comparison. As such, he was amongst the ones that couldn't make it at D-1. So that's below average, period. Why you translate that to me saying HE is below average is your problem. Never said it.
Bottom line, your tangent and list about players coming from lower levels has nothing to do with my point. Zero. Show me where I even addressed that. Maybe you got it from the one poster that wrongly implied as much, I don't know, but yet again, I did not even bring that up.
Anyway, "great" is so overused, and that's what gave me a chuckle. Semantics, I guess...
And lol at "what level did you play at?" I played at SC, alongside Anthony Munoz, and I was great.
Darth Cheney
Footballguy
Who cares if he's starting now? When he played for the Chiefs he helped people win fantasy leagues. That's all I care about and I think the spirit of the OP is if this Johnson kid can come out of nowhere to help a fantasy team.
Darth Cheney
Footballguy
I understand what you are saying and think that you were jumped on unfairly here....but there are other reasons other than talent that players play in DIV I-AA. The list forgot Marques Colston who I believe played at Hofstra.
Our definition of amateur might be different, but I am talking about college football players when I say amateur. It sounds like you are including IM's or your stylist in your comparison. As such, he was amongst the ones that couldn't make it at D-1. So that's below average, period. Why you translate that to me saying HE is below average is your problem. Never said it.
Bottom line, your tangent and list about players coming from lower levels has nothing to do with my point. Zero. Show me where I even addressed that. Maybe you got it from the one poster that wrongly implied as much, I don't know, but yet again, I did not even bring that up.
Anyway, "great" is so overused, and that's what gave me a chuckle. Semantics, I guess...
And lol at "what level did you play at?" I played at SC, alongside Anthony Munoz, and I was great.
FUBAR
Footballguy
If we're going to list the good players who happened to play Division I-AA, let's not leave out (arguably) the best player to ever play in the NFL. TIAETA: there are a fair amount of players who opt to attend smaller schools or programs despite being able to get a scholarship to a bigger program. Nobody can say MCNair, Randy Moss, TO or many others "couldn't make it at D-1." So must be "below average, period"I understand what you are saying and think that you were jumped on unfairly here....but there are other reasons other than talent that players play in DIV I-AA. The list forgot Marques Colston who I believe played at Hofstra.
Our definition of amateur might be different, but I am talking about college football players when I say amateur. It sounds like you are including IM's or your stylist in your comparison. As such, he was amongst the ones that couldn't make it at D-1. So that's below average, period. Why you translate that to me saying HE is below average is your problem. Never said it.
Bottom line, your tangent and list about players coming from lower levels has nothing to do with my point. Zero. Show me where I even addressed that. Maybe you got it from the one poster that wrongly implied as much, I don't know, but yet again, I did not even bring that up.
Anyway, "great" is so overused, and that's what gave me a chuckle. Semantics, I guess...
And lol at "what level did you play at?" I played at SC, alongside Anthony Munoz, and I was great.
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Max Power
Footballguy
Sonny was jumped on because he baited the issue.
Johnson did have a great college career, and Yes it was against lower level competition. However to just dismiss a player's skills because of the level of competition he faced in College is just foolish IMO.
Makes no sense to pop into a thread a say whatever player won't be good because the only flashes he has shown were while he was in college.
Johnson did have a great college career, and Yes it was against lower level competition. However to just dismiss a player's skills because of the level of competition he faced in College is just foolish IMO.
Makes no sense to pop into a thread a say whatever player won't be good because the only flashes he has shown were while he was in college.
FUBAR
Footballguy
and I happen to think J could have the same success, maybe not quite but in 2-start leagues or deep leagues, he's a worthwhile pickup.
HellToupee
Footballguy
I'd rather take a chance & start JJ than RussellI do. Ryan and Warner on the same Bye. My only other option is Fatty Russell.
nope...you were being ridiculously obtuse. Those numbers could be against high school teams, and they'd still be eye-popping. You can shrug off RB's numbers to a small extent in small schools....but QB's have to have receivers on the other end, and blockers blocking to give him time to find those receivers. Presumably.....his blockers and receivers are D2 scrubs as well.Sonny Lubick Blowup Doll said:
BobbyLayne
Footballguy
He looked good in the one drive he played last weekend vs. the Giants. Drove them about 70 yards, Clayton had a TD pass go through his hands. Good size, great mobility, big arm.
The comment about "below average amateur (college) athletes" got what it deserved in this thread.
The comment about "below average amateur (college) athletes" got what it deserved in this thread.
Baron Samedi
Footballguy
If I had to start Russell I'd shoot myself. I watched that JJ drive against the G-Men last week and he looked real good. Heck, he outgained what Sandwich did in 3 qtrs on that drive alone. He looked mobile, athletic & he's got a gun. He is definitely worth rostering IMO.I'd rather take a chance & start JJ than RussellI do. Ryan and Warner on the same Bye. My only other option is Fatty Russell.
Saw the kid come in at the end of the Giants' game. He looked lightning quick, and was able to avoid the fierce pass rush that the Gmen were throwing at him. He was very elusive and seemed to have a strong throwing arm to go with his running skills. It was pretty obvious that he has a special set of skills, my main concern about his situation is, will he get a fair opportunity to develop into a winning NFL QB, or will they pull the rug from under him in order to start Josh Freeman's development. I think if they are able to win a game or two and keep the scores close while he is in charge, he may get that extended opportunity, if not, after their bye week (8) we could be getting a strong dose of Freeman.
By the way, I'm very surprised that amongst all the names mentioned as Div II, etc, standouts, nobody brought up...
Jerry Rice---Mississippi Valley State...
is he not the classical case in point that gifted athletes can be found at all levels of competition...
By the way, I'm very surprised that amongst all the names mentioned as Div II, etc, standouts, nobody brought up...
Jerry Rice---Mississippi Valley State...
is he not the classical case in point that gifted athletes can be found at all levels of competition...
Sonny Lubick Blowup Doll
Footballguy
For the last time, I never said that. Nothing even remotely close, go back and look.But yeah, screwed up the thread because I thought the OP was calling Johnson a "great passer", meaning now (NFL). He obviously meant back in college.
Apologies, it was late on a Friday if you know what I mean... Anyway, last post.
I picked him up yesterday and think he's certainly worth a shot. He might be the worst starting QB in the league every week but when you are a running QB on a team that threw it 91 times the first two weeks of the season I think you have a good chance to put solid fantasy numbers.
I've often looked at running QB's the way I view pass catching RB's in PPR leagues. I like them because they score fantasy points for you in a variety of ways and it often leads to fairly consistent performances. The problem is it's been getting harder and harder to find running QB's so when one comes available I think he's worth a grab.
I took a look at the passing and fantasy numbers of several top fantasy producing running QB's to see how they performed. I'm not in any way suggesting JJ is or will ever be as good as any of these guys but I looked at this just to point out how you can a very good fantasy QB despite posting below average passing stats if you are willing to run.
Steve Mcnair- First full year as a starter he only threw for 166 yards a game and less than one TD per game. Per FBG he was the #6 fantasy QB that year posting 18.31 fantasy points per game.
Mcnabb- I think the best passer of this group. In his first full year as the starter he put up 210 passing yars and 1.3 TD's per game and per FBG he ws the #5 fantasy QB that year while posting 21.62 fantasy points per game.
Vick- In his first full year as the starter he averaged 195 passing yards a game and just about one TD. He missed game and was still the #3 fantasy QB putting up 22.6 fantasy points per game.
Kordell Stewart- In his first full year as starter he averaged 188 passing yards and 1.31 TD's per game. That was good enough for him to rate as the #2 fantasy QB putting up 21 PPG.
Young- This is a guy I look at and think can JJ really be any worse as a passer? His rookie year he does not even begin the year as the starter, misses a game, only throws for 146 yards and less than 1 TD per game while barely being able to complete 50% of his passes but still finishes as the #13 fantasy QB. In his first full year as the starter he threw for more yards but ran less, maybe due to not being healthy, and dropped to the #19 QB.
Thigpen- Does not play in two games, throws for 186 yards and 1.28 TD's per game and still finishes as #12 QB.
So from the players above only one threw for over 200 yards a game but the worst one for fantasy was Young who came in at #13.
I picked him up in two leagues ideally as my backup to Cutler and Brady with the best case scenario being that he actually would be a viable guy to put in over Cutler. I'm not going to sit here and say with any kind of conviction the move is going to pay off but I do think if he's willing to run he only needs to throw for 160-180 yards a game and he'll put up good enough fantasy numbers to be at worst a very strong backup.
I've often looked at running QB's the way I view pass catching RB's in PPR leagues. I like them because they score fantasy points for you in a variety of ways and it often leads to fairly consistent performances. The problem is it's been getting harder and harder to find running QB's so when one comes available I think he's worth a grab.
I took a look at the passing and fantasy numbers of several top fantasy producing running QB's to see how they performed. I'm not in any way suggesting JJ is or will ever be as good as any of these guys but I looked at this just to point out how you can a very good fantasy QB despite posting below average passing stats if you are willing to run.
Steve Mcnair- First full year as a starter he only threw for 166 yards a game and less than one TD per game. Per FBG he was the #6 fantasy QB that year posting 18.31 fantasy points per game.
Mcnabb- I think the best passer of this group. In his first full year as the starter he put up 210 passing yars and 1.3 TD's per game and per FBG he ws the #5 fantasy QB that year while posting 21.62 fantasy points per game.
Vick- In his first full year as the starter he averaged 195 passing yards a game and just about one TD. He missed game and was still the #3 fantasy QB putting up 22.6 fantasy points per game.
Kordell Stewart- In his first full year as starter he averaged 188 passing yards and 1.31 TD's per game. That was good enough for him to rate as the #2 fantasy QB putting up 21 PPG.
Young- This is a guy I look at and think can JJ really be any worse as a passer? His rookie year he does not even begin the year as the starter, misses a game, only throws for 146 yards and less than 1 TD per game while barely being able to complete 50% of his passes but still finishes as the #13 fantasy QB. In his first full year as the starter he threw for more yards but ran less, maybe due to not being healthy, and dropped to the #19 QB.
Thigpen- Does not play in two games, throws for 186 yards and 1.28 TD's per game and still finishes as #12 QB.
So from the players above only one threw for over 200 yards a game but the worst one for fantasy was Young who came in at #13.
I picked him up in two leagues ideally as my backup to Cutler and Brady with the best case scenario being that he actually would be a viable guy to put in over Cutler. I'm not going to sit here and say with any kind of conviction the move is going to pay off but I do think if he's willing to run he only needs to throw for 160-180 yards a game and he'll put up good enough fantasy numbers to be at worst a very strong backup.
baconisgood
Footballguy
He doesn't have to win "that many" to keep the job for most or even all of the year. they haveWasflranger said:
Phi
Car
NE
Coming up. Was and Car are very winnable games right now if hes 2-2 going into the bye week is Freeman really going to take the job? sure they only have 2-3 more winnable games down the stretch but MIA and @Car are 2 more and they are spaced enough to keep the team off a losing streak and all you need is one lucky win and he could be a 5-8 QB for the year and holding the job till the end.
BobbyLayne
Footballguy
