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JSTEW to start season on the PUP. CONFIRMED (update) (1 Viewer)

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Jonathan Stewart (ankles) has been ruled out for Thursday's preseason game, and coach Ron Rivera admits he may open the regular season on the reserve/PUP list.
Reserve/PUP would cost Stewart the first six weeks of the season. "At this point anything is an option," Rivera said Tuesday. "What you're hoping is you can get him on the football field and we'll see once the doctor gets a chance to look at him." Stowed away on active/PUP, Stewart has been limited to side work in camp as he recovers from surgery to both ankles. Stewart is shaping up as a dangerous mid-round flier, while DeAngelo Williams' stock is increasing by the day.


Beginning of the end?


 
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DWills will probably start climbing up draft boards if this is indeed true. He, along with Mendenhall are usually the last work horse RBs left on the board.

 
When can we stop mentioning this guy? Also DWill? Really? Did we not see what they guy did last year also with no Stewart?

 
When can we stop mentioning this guy? Also DWill? Really? Did we not see what they guy did last year also with no Stewart?
I cringed watching CAR attempt to move the ball on the ground last year as they were nothing short of predictable and subsequently ineffective. Luckily, they're switching from the read option to a base formation which I believe will help DWill and the run game substantially. IMO, the ineptitude of the offense as a whole attributed to DWill's underwhelming stats in several of the games where JStew was absent last year (there were games he would only get 5-10 carries). Although DWill isn't the same dude he was in 2008, I believe he still has some gas left in the tank. I mean, for a 30 year old, he has relatively little wear on his tires an a healthy 4.9 career YPC.

Fact is, he's usually the last real work horse RB getting taken off the board in the 6th/7th round. IMO, that's a steal and probably won't last very long as more news on JStew surfaces.

 
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DWILL is going in the 10th and 11th rounds in a 12 team redraft. That probably holds the best value if that stands. If given the opportunity Dwill can produce rb2 numbers easily and it wouldnt surprise me for him to sneak into the top 15 if Stewart doesnt fully recover. From all accounts Shula (panthers OC) is committing to the run this year.

 
D Will top 15 back for the first 6 weeks if true?
I'd say first 8-9 weeks as it would take Stewart a few weeks to be eased back into the offense. Doubt he'd get a full workload week 7.
thats the thing, when both play neither gets a "full load" to make them fantasy effective. They basically cancel each other out. Dwill starting without stewart for the first 6 weeks would be huge news fantasy wise if this holds up

 
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If Stewart is indeed out, DWill does look like good value considering many people have (understandably) soured on him in recent years.

I am a bit hesitant though since while any clear cut starting RB is valuable, Williams has disappointed quite a bit since his big year a few years back.

I'd still draft him at the right price, but certainly won't reach.

 
If Stewart is indeed out, DWill does look like good value considering many people have (understandably) soured on him in recent years.

I am a bit hesitant though since while any clear cut starting RB is valuable, Williams has disappointed quite a bit since his big year a few years back.

I'd still draft him at the right price, but certainly won't reach.
as I said in MOP's thread, Dwill has been insanely misused the past couple years. In games where he gets 10+ carries he produces. Now like you I wouldnt draft him as my #1 or but where he is going now there simply isnt a better value pick in a redraft situation. A starting running back on an above average offense in the 9th, 10th or even 11th round is gold. But also like you if this news seeps out before this weekends round of drafts I could see him shooting up draft boards especially in Carolina based fantasy leagues that people such as myself are in.

 
This report just makes Stewart is a better value in dynasty. Buy low, people.
I have been on the Stewart train since he was a rookie, but it's time to get off at the next station--the guy has major issues with his feet and will never amount to more than a player whose career was derailed by injuries. I do believe he will be on a different team next year, as the Panthers will most likely cut him, but I just can't see him staying healthy.

 
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Didn't the Panthers just renegotiate J Stew's contract to include a hefty signing bonus? (around $1.5 million I think)

They seem to have plans for him still being a big part of the offense when healthy. If you own him, I think you have to hang on to him until he officially is put on the PUP. If you own DWill, as one of the last two consolation prize RB's in the late rounds (him and Mendy), then you have to be ecstatic about the news. If/when J Stew comes back off the PUP, everything will be clear as mud again.

 
D Will top 15 back for the first 6 weeks if true?
He's talented enough to be better than that (fantasy RB15), but will he get enough touches even with Stewart out? He had games with 6, 11, 12, and 10 carries with Stewart out last year. Tolbert will still be the primary receiving RB, and both Cam and Tolbert are both ahead of Williams in the redzone pecking order.

 
D Will top 15 back for the first 6 weeks if true?
He's talented enough to be better than that (fantasy RB15), but will he get enough touches even with Stewart out? He had games with 6, 11, 12, and 10 carries with Stewart out last year. Tolbert will still be the primary receiving RB, and both Cam and Tolbert are both ahead of Williams in the redzone pecking order.
So as a value pick, maybe Tolbert becomes a nice play (TD heavy leagues or full ppr leagues)?

 
When can we stop mentioning this guy? Also DWill? Really? Did we not see what they guy did last year also with no Stewart?
I cringed watching CAR attempt to move the ball on the ground last year as they were nothing short of predictable and subsequently ineffective. Luckily, they're switching from the read option to a base formation which I believe will help DWill and the run game substantially. IMO, the ineptitude of the offense as a whole attributed to DWill's underwhelming stats in several of the games where JStew was absent last year (there were games he would only get 5-10 carries). Although DWill isn't the same dude he was in 2008, I believe he still has some gas left in the tank. I mean, for a 30 year old, he has relatively little wear on his tires an a healthy 4.9 career YPC.

Fact is, he's usually the last real work horse RB getting taken off the board in the 6th/7th round. IMO, that's a steal and probably won't last very long as more news on JStew surfaces.
Might be worth keeping in mind that when he came into the NFL one of the big concerns for him was his heavy usage at Memphis. I think he had over 400 carries there. I agree, I don't think he screams overused in any way these past several years but if you subscribe to the cummulative carry theory, its worth remembering.

 
If Stewart is indeed out, DWill does look like good value considering many people have (understandably) soured on him in recent years.

I am a bit hesitant though since while any clear cut starting RB is valuable, Williams has disappointed quite a bit since his big year a few years back.

I'd still draft him at the right price, but certainly won't reach.
as I said in MOP's thread, Dwill has been insanely misused the past couple years. In games where he gets 10+ carries he produces. Now like you I wouldnt draft him as my #1 or but where he is going now there simply isnt a better value pick in a redraft situation. A starting running back on an above average offense in the 9th, 10th or even 11th round is gold. But also like you if this news seeps out before this weekends round of drafts I could see him shooting up draft boards especially in Carolina based fantasy leagues that people such as myself are in.
This coaching staff has shown they are clueless nitwits who have no idea how to utilize their RBs. Even if Stewart is out, the odds of them barely using DeAngelo, or not using him correctly, are still far too great.

 
If Stewart is indeed out, DWill does look like good value considering many people have (understandably) soured on him in recent years.

I am a bit hesitant though since while any clear cut starting RB is valuable, Williams has disappointed quite a bit since his big year a few years back.

I'd still draft him at the right price, but certainly won't reach.
as I said in MOP's thread, Dwill has been insanely misused the past couple years. In games where he gets 10+ carries he produces. Now like you I wouldnt draft him as my #1 or but where he is going now there simply isnt a better value pick in a redraft situation. A starting running back on an above average offense in the 9th, 10th or even 11th round is gold. But also like you if this news seeps out before this weekends round of drafts I could see him shooting up draft boards especially in Carolina based fantasy leagues that people such as myself are in.
This coaching staff has shown they are clueless nitwits who have no idea how to utilize their RBs. Even if Stewart is out, the odds of them barely using DeAngelo, or not using him correctly, are still far too great.
very very true but again if you are staring at Dwill in the 10th then its going to be hard to pass on him

 
Didn't the Panthers just renegotiate J Stew's contract to include a hefty signing bonus? (around $1.5 million I think)

They seem to have plans for him still being a big part of the offense when healthy. If you own him, I think you have to hang on to him until he officially is put on the PUP. If you own DWill, as one of the last two consolation prize RB's in the late rounds (him and Mendy), then you have to be ecstatic about the news. If/when J Stew comes back off the PUP, everything will be clear as mud again.
The new GM appears to have committed long term to both him and Dwill so it sort of makes sense to be careful with him after ankle surgeries.

Then again, somehow the new GM has talked Beason and Gross into a restructure that provides zero cap hit after 13. That fact somehow went fairly unnoticed after both restructures. Maybe that just means both Gross and Beason are OK with retirement?

I mentioned all of that because I guess there is always a chance something similar happening with D Will or J Stew.

yep, clear as mud

 
yep, clear as mud
Exactly this. Despite the anti-Stewart crew chiming in with the absurd suggestions that his career is over or that he'll be cut, he actually hasn't been placed on the PUP yet, much less IR. It's still a mediocre offense, the only question is how long the backfield points will be divided 3 ways (Williams, Tolbert, Cam) as opposed to 4 (+ Stewart when he returns). I want no part of it period.

 
If Stewart is indeed out, DWill does look like good value considering many people have (understandably) soured on him in recent years.

I am a bit hesitant though since while any clear cut starting RB is valuable, Williams has disappointed quite a bit since his big year a few years back.

I'd still draft him at the right price, but certainly won't reach.
as I said in MOP's thread, Dwill has been insanely misused the past couple years. In games where he gets 10+ carries he produces. Now like you I wouldnt draft him as my #1 or but where he is going now there simply isnt a better value pick in a redraft situation. A starting running back on an above average offense in the 9th, 10th or even 11th round is gold. But also like you if this news seeps out before this weekends round of drafts I could see him shooting up draft boards especially in Carolina based fantasy leagues that people such as myself are in.
This coaching staff has shown they are clueless nitwits who have no idea how to utilize their RBs. Even if Stewart is out, the odds of them barely using DeAngelo, or not using him correctly, are still far too great.
Devil's Advocate: I attributed their disregard for DW as a result of Chudzinski. Now that he's gone, are we assuming same O philosophy applies to Shula? Seems likely to me that DW will get the bulk of the work. He's the superior guy in the backfield, and it really isn't even close.

220/1000/6 +

20/150/2

Barring injury, if he doesn't get these numbers, then it's all Rivera's fault, and he's an idiot.

 
This coaching staff has shown they are clueless nitwits who have no idea how to utilize their RBs. Even if Stewart is out, the odds of them barely using DeAngelo, or not using him correctly, are still far too great.
Sadly, I have to agree. I've been stuck with Stewart and Deangelo in a dynasty league for a few years, and I can't say I would feel great about starting Deangelo even if I know Stewart will be out. As for Stewart, it has reached the point where I'm considering dropping him for a rookie in this weekend's upcoming rookie draft.

 
When can we stop mentioning this guy? Also DWill? Really? Did we not see what they guy did last year also with no Stewart?
When given at least 10 carriers last year (10x) Williams posted numbers that would project to about 1300 yards and 9TDs over a full year. He can be a very useful fantasy RB and with his ADP, you would be a fool not to outright dismiss him.

 
Didn't the Panthers just renegotiate J Stew's contract to include a hefty signing bonus? (around $1.5 million I think)

They seem to have plans for him still being a big part of the offense when healthy. If you own him, I think you have to hang on to him until he officially is put on the PUP. If you own DWill, as one of the last two consolation prize RB's in the late rounds (him and Mendy), then you have to be ecstatic about the news. If/when J Stew comes back off the PUP, everything will be clear as mud again.
The new GM appears to have committed long term to both him and Dwill so it sort of makes sense to be careful with him after ankle surgeries.

Then again, somehow the new GM has talked Beason and Gross into a restructure that provides zero cap hit after 13. That fact somehow went fairly unnoticed after both restructures. Maybe that just means both Gross and Beason are OK with retirement?

I mentioned all of that because I guess there is always a chance something similar happening with D Will or J Stew.

yep, clear as mud
They also reworked DWill's contract significantly, he'll make $2m in 2014 and 2015, pretty sure it wasn't guaranteed like his $5m 2013 paycheck. so essentially cash and cap hit the same the next two years for him.

 
I wish I knew the whole story with Stewart's ankles. The story earlier this year was he was having trouble with his non surgical repaired ankle. Now apparently he had surgery on both.

 
When can we stop mentioning this guy? Also DWill? Really? Did we not see what they guy did last year also with no Stewart?
When given at least 10 carriers last year (10x) Williams posted numbers that would project to about 1300 yards and 9TDs over a full year. He can be a very useful fantasy RB and with his ADP, you would be a fool not to outright dismiss him.
Call me a fool then because I watched him last year and he was a dog. The brief glimpse I got last week when he played the eagles makes me think the same. I wouldn't draft him the 20th round.

 
Medicore offense?
As far as RB production, yes, and they're trending down pretty sharply. Williams, Stewart, and Tolbert combined for 1256 rushing at under 4 yards / carry in 2012. They throw to the RBs less than most teams also -- 57 catches total last year. It also doesn't help that Newton is the most prolific TD threat running as a QB that the NFL has ever seen.I'm not a Carolina homer or anything, but I've owned both Williams and Stewart in various dynasty leagues over the years -- from what I've seen the line has declined pretty drastically, and they've transitioned completely away from the power ground game based offense that they ran under John Fox -- neither of those RB killing issues is likely to change any time soon IMO -- and when you throw a multi-way RBBC into the mix to top things off? No thanks -- no matter how talented I believe both Williams and Stewart to be.

 
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Didn't the Panthers just renegotiate J Stew's contract to include a hefty signing bonus? (around $1.5 million I think)

They seem to have plans for him still being a big part of the offense when healthy. If you own him, I think you have to hang on to him until he officially is put on the PUP. If you own DWill, as one of the last two consolation prize RB's in the late rounds (him and Mendy), then you have to be ecstatic about the news. If/when J Stew comes back off the PUP, everything will be clear as mud again.
The new GM appears to have committed long term to both him and Dwill so it sort of makes sense to be careful with him after ankle surgeries.

Then again, somehow the new GM has talked Beason and Gross into a restructure that provides zero cap hit after 13. That fact somehow went fairly unnoticed after both restructures. Maybe that just means both Gross and Beason are OK with retirement?

I mentioned all of that because I guess there is always a chance something similar happening with D Will or J Stew.

yep, clear as mud
They also reworked DWill's contract significantly, he'll make $2m in 2014 and 2015, pretty sure it wasn't guaranteed like his $5m 2013 paycheck. so essentially cash and cap hit the same the next two years for him.
1.85 is just the base.

He accepted 17 mill guaranteed over 13,14,15 instead of getting cut this year and only getting 9.6 gauranteed (and potentially not getting another good cotnract). In exchange he took less money in 13 basically.

 
When can we stop mentioning this guy? Also DWill? Really? Did we not see what they guy did last year also with no Stewart?
When given at least 10 carriers last year (10x) Williams posted numbers that would project to about 1300 yards and 9TDs over a full year. He can be a very useful fantasy RB and with his ADP, you would be a fool not to outright dismiss him.
Call me a fool then because I watched him last year and he was a dog. The brief glimpse I got last week when he played the eagles makes me think the same. I wouldn't draft him the 20th round.
In games three of the last four weeks of the season he went over 100 yards from scrimmage, and added three touchdowns. For a late round RB that appears as though he's going to have little competition for carries, I think you're barking up the wrong tree.

 
When can we stop mentioning this guy? Also DWill? Really? Did we not see what they guy did last year also with no Stewart?
When given at least 10 carriers last year (10x) Williams posted numbers that would project to about 1300 yards and 9TDs over a full year. He can be a very useful fantasy RB and with his ADP, you would be a fool not to outright dismiss him.
Call me a fool then because I watched him last year and he was a dog. The brief glimpse I got last week when he played the eagles makes me think the same. I wouldn't draft him the 20th round.
In games three of the last four weeks of the season he went over 100 yards from scrimmage, and added three touchdowns. For a late round RB that appears as though he's going to have little competition for carries, I think you're barking up the wrong tree.
Wat? Stewart isn't even certain to miss week one, much less the entire year at this point. And even if he does, there's still Newton and Tolbert hanging around to take the majority of the high value touches (red zone and 3rd down).

Not to mention Williams ADP is going to shoot up a ton if Stewart actually is placed on the PUP...

 
When can we stop mentioning this guy? Also DWill? Really? Did we not see what they guy did last year also with no Stewart?
When given at least 10 carriers last year (10x) Williams posted numbers that would project to about 1300 yards and 9TDs over a full year. He can be a very useful fantasy RB and with his ADP, you would be a fool not to outright dismiss him.
Call me a fool then because I watched him last year and he was a dog. The brief glimpse I got last week when he played the eagles makes me think the same. I wouldn't draft him the 20th round.
In games three of the last four weeks of the season he went over 100 yards from scrimmage, and added three touchdowns. For a late round RB that appears as though he's going to have little competition for carries, I think you're barking up the wrong tree.
Wat? Stewart isn't even certain to miss week one, much less the entire year at this point. And even if he does, there's still Newton and Tolbert hanging around to take the majority of the high value touches (red zone and 3rd down).

Not to mention Williams ADP is going to shoot up a ton if Stewart actually is placed on the PUP...
much like the A Bradshaw situation, both of the guys had surgery, both are obviously having a hard time getting healthy and neither has even practiced yet. This is a golden opportunity for a late round flyer on Dwill. I think the big boy drafts start this weekend and if things hold then Williams is a steal in the 9th,10th etc. There are no other starting running backs on the roster that will cut deeply into his carries. Tolbert and Newton do get looks at the GL but then again so does Dwill. If you think you can get a locked in starter that late in the draft that has as much potential as Williams then go for it. All we are saying is that right now he holds the most value of pretty much anyone in a redraft as it stands today.

 
When can we stop mentioning this guy? Also DWill? Really? Did we not see what they guy did last year also with no Stewart?
When given at least 10 carriers last year (10x) Williams posted numbers that would project to about 1300 yards and 9TDs over a full year. He can be a very useful fantasy RB and with his ADP, you would be a fool not to outright dismiss him.
Call me a fool then because I watched him last year and he was a dog. The brief glimpse I got last week when he played the eagles makes me think the same. I wouldn't draft him the 20th round.
In games three of the last four weeks of the season he went over 100 yards from scrimmage, and added three touchdowns. For a late round RB that appears as though he's going to have little competition for carries, I think you're barking up the wrong tree.
Wat? Stewart isn't even certain to miss week one, much less the entire year at this point. And even if he does, there's still Newton and Tolbert hanging around to take the majority of the high value touches (red zone and 3rd down).

Not to mention Williams ADP is going to shoot up a ton if Stewart actually is placed on the PUP...
Probably should have clarified. My statement is only assuming that Stewart starts off the season on the PUP. Given that, I just see Tolbert getting some GL carries and third down work, but DeAngelo will be carrying the majority of the workload out of the backfield.

I think people are also overlooking the coaching changes on the offensive side of the ball. You've got Shula there now as play caller, and they also brought back the RB coach under Fox (Jim Skipper). There's going to be more emphasis on the run (from the RB position) with those two guys there.

 
Count me in as someone who has been burned by DWill in the past, but if JStew goes on PUP Id certainly be open to taking DWill at the right price (and depending on the rest of the RBs Ive already picked)

 
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Count me in as someone who has been burned by DWill in the past, but if JStew goes on PUP Id certainly be open to taking DWill at the right price (and depending on the rest of the RBs Ive already picked)
I think the first statement you made is a reason Williams' adp won't change too much. He has burned so many fantasy owners the last few years that many likely just won't touch him no matter the round or the news regarding Stewart. People don't forget when a player on their team fails and people usually prefer the new flashy item. If Daniel Thomas or BJGE went on PUP, you would see two Miller and Geo FLY up draft boards. I just don't think the JStew issue moves the needle very much amongst the average fan.

 
DWill was RB 23 in standard scoring leagues last year. You read that right. I know it doesn't seem like he was anything, but he was startable at times last year.

Noone is saying he's going to be RB1 worthy. But he can currently be had for RB3/4 price behind guys who are going to be lucky to get 12 touches a game. He is the kind of pick that allows you to take a Gio earlier more confidently, or gamble on a David Wilson because if their share of the pie starts low early, their talent will win out at some point and you just need someone to get you there. That's DWill in a nutshell

 
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DWill was RB 23 in standard scoring leagues last year. You read that right. I know it doesn't seem like he was anything, but he was startable at times last year.

Noone is saying he's going to be RB1 worthy. But he can currently be had for RB3/4 price behind guys who are going to be lucky to get 12 touches a game. He is the kind of pick that allows you to take a Gio earlier more confidently, or gamble on a David Wilson because if their share of the pie starts low early, their talent will win out at some point and you just need someone to get you there. That's DWill in a nutshell
Exactly. I was able to grab Gio as my RB3 and Dwills as my RB4 in a draft yesterday and this was before the news on JStew. Opportunity is opportunity and I can't disregard the value in grabbing a late round RB who is guaranteed work.

I think pairing Gio/Wilson with DWills/Mendenhall is a legitimate draft strategy right now.

 
Wasn't able to be around yesterday and completely missed this thread. Lived in Charlotte for about 6 years until last September, and still have many, many friends there that follow the team closely, some of whom know players and interact with them. There's a lot of buzz, as I'm sure there is around all the other teams, that doesn't necessarily hit the news - even local radio.

There's been speculation in Charlotte from the coaching staff that DW has lost a step. Maybe not a full step, but that he's not quite the same player he was before. There's also been talk that the team is looking for someone to step up next to him to take a chunk of the rushing load if Stew isn't healthy and ready to go. I've heard the phrase "Tolbert and/or another RB will be a lot more involved than people think." There's even been articles in the Charlotte paper that Tolbert is excited about getting back to running the football, and "broken promises" from Chud when he was signed.

So, I'd pump the brakes on elevating DW too high in drafts until we see the Thursday dress rehearsal, especially if Tolbert suits up.

As for Barner - I'm pretty confident Poole has solidified himself on the depth chart ahead of Barner. He's the darkhorse I'd be keeping an eye on past DW and Tolbert, not Barner.

Finally, whiel Chudzinski is gone, I'd point out that the team elevated Shula to OC in order to "maintain continuity" for the offense. Many, if not most, Carolina fans wanted them to hire Hue Jackson, but Gettleman was basically offering 1-year deals as he's not tieing himself to anyone on this coaching staff. Shula's been criticized in the past as being far too conservative as an OC, and through the first two pre-season games, I've seen little to dissuade that notion. Add to that the fact that the O-line is a complete mess right now (Silatolu has struggled this preseason, Kigbula can't get healthy, and Garry Williams defines replacement level player, not to mention the atricious play of RT Byron Bell. So you've got a weak o-line, an OC lacking creativity, essentially a lame-duck coach in Rivera, and whispers and rumors that DW has lost a step (not to mention the $8M pay cut he received as part of restructuring his contract) and the team will involve Tolbert and others more than anyone anticipates.

I own Stewart in a dynasty, and I'd love to see him get healthy as there's basically nothing I can do with him right now, but it is what it is. I'm just no so sure DW is the answer some guys seem to think he'll be. Tolbert may be the cheapest insurance policy you can find, and I wouldn't be shocked if he ended up more valuable due to his goalline status (team has said they don't want Cam running as much at the stripe) and his receiving prowess -- he wasn't too bad a runner his last year in SD either.

Just my 2 cents. :2cents:

 
DWill was RB 23 in standard scoring leagues last year. You read that right. I know it doesn't seem like he was anything, but he was startable at times last year.
Sure, if you count Week 17, which is a non-week for most FF leagues, but if you go by Weeks 1-16, he was mid 30s in most formats for the fantasy season.

 
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DWill was RB 23 in standard scoring leagues last year. You read that right. I know it doesn't seem like he was anything, but he was startable at times last year.
Sure, if you count Week 17, which is a non-week for most FF leagues, but if you go by Weeks 1-16, he was mid 30s.
how could you know that without discounting the other running backs week 17?
Because I went to the site of one of my leagues last year, one that had a pretty standard modern day scoring format, and used the site to show me the top RBs for Weeks 1-16. DeAngelo was 34th.

 

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