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Justice Scalia Dead (1 Viewer)

DW I actually used to listen to Bork a lot and had great respect for the man, though I disagreed with his originalism. But my point was that he was perceived as an extremist, and so wondered whether a more moderate candidate had ever been stopped for political reasons only.

 
But they're really caught between a rock and a hard place. The Republican senators who are up for re=election in "vulnerable" states- if they allow a nomination to go through, they probably run the risk of being "primaried" by an angry base. If they don't allow a nomination to go through, they run the risk of losing the election. What to do?
their job?
Like Onama did when he was in the Senate? Obama's action 8 years ago will give the GOP political cover.

 
But they're really caught between a rock and a hard place. The Republican senators who are up for re=election in "vulnerable" states- if they allow a nomination to go through, they probably run the risk of being "primaried" by an angry base. If they don't allow a nomination to go through, they run the risk of losing the election. What to do?
their job?
Like Onama did when he was in the Senate? Obama's action 8 years ago will give the GOP political cover.
I heard the same argument made with regard to the debt ceiling, and just like then I think it's pretty weak. There is a vast difference between a protest vote when you know something is going to pass anyhow and a vote that actually makes a difference.
 
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But they're really caught between a rock and a hard place. The Republican senators who are up for re=election in "vulnerable" states- if they allow a nomination to go through, they probably run the risk of being "primaried" by an angry base. If they don't allow a nomination to go through, they run the risk of losing the election. What to do?
their job?
Like Onama did when he was in the Senate? Obama's action 8 years ago will give the GOP political cover.
I heard the same argument made with regard to the debt ceiling, and just like then I think it's pretty weak. There is a vast difference between a protest vote when you know something is going to pass anyhow and a vote that actually makes a difference.
It may be weak, but to the electorate it is an arguement which will reasonate. Trying to blow it off as a protest vote is an even weaker arguement.

 
Whomever does get nominated, I'm surprised the Republicans are not more outraged at Roberts for his swing vote decisions. Having a moderate on the court is, um, good for the court.

 
I wonder if we're going to start seeing filibusters for every Supreme Court nomination, or automatic rejection of any nominee when the Senate is controlled by the opposite party from the POTUS.

It really hasn't happened to this point. I looked up the votes on the 3 rejected SC nominees and found it wasn't the case. Bork had 6 GOP NAY votes and 2 YEA votes from Democrats. The two Nixon appointees had more than a dozen NAY votes from GOP Senators. If all of the Republicans had voted for them they would have been confirmed.

 
I wonder if we're going to start seeing filibusters for every Supreme Court nomination, or automatic rejection of any nominee when the Senate is controlled by the opposite party from the POTUS.

It really hasn't happened to this point. I looked up the votes on the 3 rejected SC nominees and found it wasn't the case. Bork had 6 GOP NAY votes and 2 YEA votes from Democrats. The two Nixon appointees had more than a dozen NAY votes from GOP Senators. If all of the Republicans had voted for them they would have been confirmed.
In all seriousness this is my fear with the way this appears to be going since last night.
 
But they're really caught between a rock and a hard place. The Republican senators who are up for re=election in "vulnerable" states- if they allow a nomination to go through, they probably run the risk of being "primaried" by an angry base. If they don't allow a nomination to go through, they run the risk of losing the election. What to do?
their job?
Like Onama did when he was in the Senate? Obama's action 8 years ago will give the GOP political cover.
I heard the same argument made with regard to the debt ceiling, and just like then I think it's pretty weak. There is a vast difference between a protest vote when you know something is going to pass anyhow and a vote that actually makes a difference.
It may be weak, but to the electorate it is an arguement which will reasonate. Trying to blow it off as a protest vote is an even weaker arguement.
i don't think so, if they just refuse to do anything it will be another example of the senate not doing anything which the public is sick of.
 
Did anyone else catch Cruz on MTP. He actually said it was the Senates duty to block Obama's nomination. Jesus H and this guy is actually running for President.

 
"This situation" means a vacancy occurring in the Supreme Court during an election year in a divided government, where the Presidential nomination and the Senate appointment both have to take place in the election year. And by divided government I mean a President in one party and the Senate in another party. We wouldn't be having an issue if the Senate was Democrat controlled. This situation hasn't happened since 1880. Grassley has screwed this up, as has Cruz and Rubio. I'm not sure where their "80" number comes from. Maybe they were prepped right before the debate and told 1880 and flubbed it by saying "the last 80 years" during the heat of the moment.
What if President Obama nominates "The Situation"?

Side note - will the chamber of the Supreme Court be renamed "The Situation Room"?

-QG

 
I am going to have to research what happens with the cases pending before the court.
They go ahead with 8 justices. If there is a tie, it is a no ruling and the lower court ruling stands. There are a few cases which this will happen to which just flipped the expected outcome like the limits on mandatory union contributions.
:goodposting: leg work done here

Basically... Upcoming cases like Obama's immigration Executive order will still be heard.. If the vote is 4-4, then the decision reverts to the lower courts and his executive order is gone.. for now..

Cases that were already heard are handled differently..

If the vote is 5-4, and his vote was the on the "5" side, then the case is removed and needs to be reheard.. Otherwise the decisions go through.

 
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Marco Rubio said tonight that it's been 80 years since a lame duck President appointed a Supreme Court. That's not true is it?
I heard that somewhere else too.
Marco Rubio said tonight that it's been 80 years since a lame duck President appointed a Supreme Court. That's not true is it?
I heard that somewhere else too.
There's a lot of confusion on this. I think it's important to distinguish the nomination date from the appointment date, and what we consider lame duck years. Reagan nominated Kennedy in November of 87 but he wasn't appointed until 88. I'm trying to find out the last nomination during an election year that was also appointed.
http://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2016/02/update-there-hasnt-been-justice-confirmed-in-election-year-by-divided-government-since-1880/
There hasn’t been a justice nominated and confirmed in an election year by divided government since 1880.

Since the Civil War, there have been eleven nominations to the Supreme Court in a presidential election year. Of those nine were confirmed, one withdrawn, and one was not acted upon. However, of the nine that were confirmed, eight were with a unified government–that is the President and the Senate were of the same party. Only Justice William Burnham Woods, nominated by Rutherford B. Hayes (a Republican) was confirmed by a Democratic Senate in 1880. All other Justices who were nominated in election year were confirmed by Senates that were of the same party as the President.
In my mind there's no chance the Republicans allow an Obama nomination to be appointed. It's going to wait until the next President, whoever it is. As SaintsinDome said, all the chips are in the middle of the table.
They'll get crushed if they do this.

 
If Republicans want to make the election a referendum on the nominee they should be sure to tell us who they'll nominate if they win.

Likewise Clinton and Sanders should let everyone see who'll they'll get if Obama's nominee is stonewalled and Dems win.

 
If Republicans want to make the election a referendum on the nominee they should be sure to tell us who they'll nominate if they win.

Likewise Clinton and Sanders should let everyone see who'll they'll get if Obama's nominee is stonewalled and Dems win.
i don't think there is any mystery on the type of Justice anyone will nominate outside of maybe Trump.

 
If the Republicans simply refuse to even consider any nominee Obama might choose (and listening to McConnell, Cruz, and Rubio, it sure sounds like this will be the case) why wouldn't the Democrats refuse to consider any nominee that a Republican president might consider? Seems like this is about to get really ugly.

 
DW I actually used to listen to Bork a lot and had great respect for the man, though I disagreed with his originalism. But my point was that he was perceived as an extremist, and so wondered whether a more moderate candidate had ever been stopped for political reasons only.
I missed your point. No question he was painted as an extremist, nor that a large percentage of the population bought that presentation. Myself, I had reservations that his espoused judicial philosophy would not bend to his political beliefs. Ultimately he sort of did take the bench with the subsequent appointments of Scalia and/Rehnquist.

 
But they're really caught between a rock and a hard place. The Republican senators who are up for re=election in "vulnerable" states- if they allow a nomination to go through, they probably run the risk of being "primaried" by an angry base. If they don't allow a nomination to go through, they run the risk of losing the election. What to do?
their job?
Their job has come down to being re-elected and cause gridlock.

Winning the Presidency is a secondary concern for the GOP.

 
Rubio on Meet the Press was especially confident, or petulant, depending on your POV. He said, "We're not considering anyone. We're not confirming anyone. It's not going to happen."

Well then.

 
I am going to have to research what happens with the cases pending before the court.
They go ahead with 8 justices. If there is a tie, it is a no ruling and the lower court ruling stands. There are a few cases which this will happen to which just flipped the expected outcome like the limits on mandatory union contributions.
I more or less understood this to be so. I guess I am wondering in a bit greater depth. Decisions are now being authored, drafts circulated, some drafts or positions are based upon responding to, or even countering drafts of others, like the now gone Scalia. I presume there will be much scrambling.

I also wonder if grants of cert. based upon his vote are nevertheless going to be heard, if they have not already been. I presume those grants, if indeed there be any yet unheard, stand. (Actually I would have to check to see whether there are any arguments still scheduled in this term. It seems fairly late already.

 
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If the Republicans simply refuse to even consider any nominee Obama might choose (and listening to McConnell, Cruz, and Rubio, it sure sounds like this will be the case) why wouldn't the Democrats refuse to consider any nominee that a Republican president might consider? Seems like this is about to get really ugly.
The Dems can and do do this. If the GOP nominated a conservative or even a moderate to replace a liberal Justice, especially one that would flip the balance of the court as this one would, there is no limits to what the Dems would do to stop it. Any Dem claiming they would do their duty and allow a vote is either extremely naive or lying. This is the fight over the holy grail of politics. No tool is off the table.

 
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I am going to have to research what happens with the cases pending before the court.
They go ahead with 8 justices. If there is a tie, it is a no ruling and the lower court ruling stands. There are a few cases which this will happen to which just flipped the expected outcome like the limits on mandatory union contributions.
:goodposting: leg work done here

Basically... Upcoming cases like Obama's immigration Executive order will still be heard.. If the vote is 4-4, then the decision reverts to the lower courts and his executive order is gone.. for now..

Cases that were already heard are handled differently..

If the vote is 5-4, and his vote was the on the "5" side, then the case is removed and needs to be reheard.. Otherwise the decisions go through.
That is what I did not remember clearly. Thanks for the info.

 
Marco Rubio said tonight that it's been 80 years since a lame duck President appointed a Supreme Court. That's not true is it?
I heard that somewhere else too.
Marco Rubio said tonight that it's been 80 years since a lame duck President appointed a Supreme Court. That's not true is it?
I heard that somewhere else too.
There's a lot of confusion on this. I think it's important to distinguish the nomination date from the appointment date, and what we consider lame duck years. Reagan nominated Kennedy in November of 87 but he wasn't appointed until 88. I'm trying to find out the last nomination during an election year that was also appointed.
http://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2016/02/update-there-hasnt-been-justice-confirmed-in-election-year-by-divided-government-since-1880/
There hasn’t been a justice nominated and confirmed in an election year by divided government since 1880.

Since the Civil War, there have been eleven nominations to the Supreme Court in a presidential election year. Of those nine were confirmed, one withdrawn, and one was not acted upon. However, of the nine that were confirmed, eight were with a unified government–that is the President and the Senate were of the same party. Only Justice William Burnham Woods, nominated by Rutherford B. Hayes (a Republican) was confirmed by a Democratic Senate in 1880. All other Justices who were nominated in election year were confirmed by Senates that were of the same party as the President.
In my mind there's no chance the Republicans allow an Obama nomination to be appointed. It's going to wait until the next President, whoever it is. As SaintsinDome said, all the chips are in the middle of the table.
They'll get crushed if they do this.
In 1988 there were 54 Democrats in the US Senate and the Senate voted 97-0 to confirm the Justice Kennedy.

https://www.govtrack.us/congress/votes/100-1988/s436

 
Rubio on Meet the Press was especially confident, or petulant, depending on your POV. He said, "We're not considering anyone. We're not confirming anyone. It's not going to happen."

Well then.
My lord we have a disappointing slate of candidates on both sides of the aisle this go round. Not a one for whom I could vote. If forced right now to vote for one of the main stream contenders I would have to vote for Bernie, a man with whom I disagree on most matters of importance to me, but one who does not mistake passionate partisanship as actual principle. At least I can respect Bernie.

 
If forced right now to vote for one of the main stream contenders I would have to vote for Bernie, a man with whom I disagree on most matters of importance to me, but one who does not mistake passionate partisanship as actual principle. At least I can respect Bernie.
Although on this particular issue, politicizing the Supreme Court nomination-and-confirmation process, I don't think Bernie is so great. He's the one with litmus tests on specific issues. For example, he's said that he wouldn't nominate anyone who wouldn't vote to overturn Citizens United. I personally don't think that's how constitutional jurisprudence is supposed to work.

 
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If forced right now to vote for one of the main stream contenders I would have to vote for Bernie, a man with whom I disagree on most matters of importance to me, but one who does not mistake passionate partisanship as actual principle. At least I can respect Bernie.
Although on this particular issue, politicizing the Supreme Court nomination-and-confirmation process, I don't think Bernie is so great. He's the one with litmus tests on specific issues. For example, he's said that he wouldn't nominate anyone who wouldn't vote to overturn Citizens United. I personally don't think that's how constitutional jurisprudence is supposed to work.
Any politician that says otherwise is a phony.
 
One thing that made no sense to me on Meet the Press: they're saying that a 4-4 split would be bad for Obama because it means his executive order on immigration would be kicked back to the lower court which means it would be thrown out-

But if there's a 4-4 split on Obama's executive order, that means that if Scalia was still alive it surely would have been a 5-4 decision against Obama anyhow. So what difference does it make?

 
One thing that made no sense to me on Meet the Press: they're saying that a 4-4 split would be bad for Obama because it means his executive order on immigration would be kicked back to the lower court which means it would be thrown out-

But if there's a 4-4 split on Obama's executive order, that means that if Scalia was still alive it surely would have been a 5-4 decision against Obama anyhow. So what difference does it make?
Good point, Tim.

 
If forced right now to vote for one of the main stream contenders I would have to vote for Bernie, a man with whom I disagree on most matters of importance to me, but one who does not mistake passionate partisanship as actual principle. At least I can respect Bernie.
Although on this particular issue, politicizing the Supreme Court nomination-and-confirmation process, I don't think Bernie is so great. He's the one with litmus tests on specific issues. For example, he's said that he wouldn't nominate anyone who wouldn't vote to overturn Citizens United. I personally don't think that's how constitutional jurisprudence is supposed to work.
It's not. Anyone that pledged to overturn Citizens United in order to be considered for the post by Bernie would have to recuse themselves from decisions related to that.

 
If forced right now to vote for one of the main stream contenders I would have to vote for Bernie, a man with whom I disagree on most matters of importance to me, but one who does not mistake passionate partisanship as actual principle. At least I can respect Bernie.
Although on this particular issue, politicizing the Supreme Court nomination-and-confirmation process, I don't think Bernie is so great. He's the one with litmus tests on specific issues. For example, he's said that he wouldn't nominate anyone who wouldn't vote to overturn Citizens United. I personally don't think that's how constitutional jurisprudence is supposed to work.
Any politician that says otherwise is a phony.
Exactly. The SC has, and always will be, politicized.

 
If forced right now to vote for one of the main stream contenders I would have to vote for Bernie, a man with whom I disagree on most matters of importance to me, but one who does not mistake passionate partisanship as actual principle. At least I can respect Bernie.
Although on this particular issue, politicizing the Supreme Court nomination-and-confirmation process, I don't think Bernie is so great. He's the one with litmus tests on specific issues. For example, he's said that he wouldn't nominate anyone who wouldn't vote to overturn Citizens United. I personally don't think that's how constitutional jurisprudence is supposed to work.
Any politician that says otherwise is a phony.
This is true. It seemed kind of nice when politicians at least pretended to have integrity and lied to us. It is a very recent trend to embrace litmus test. Obama still would claim no litmus test, but Hillary and Bernie seem to be frontrunners in throwing that completely out the window.

 
One thing that made no sense to me on Meet the Press: they're saying that a 4-4 split would be bad for Obama because it means his executive order on immigration would be kicked back to the lower court which means it would be thrown out-

But if there's a 4-4 split on Obama's executive order, that means that if Scalia was still alive it surely would have been a 5-4 decision against Obama anyhow. So what difference does it make?
I was thinking the exact same thing.

 
If forced right now to vote for one of the main stream contenders I would have to vote for Bernie, a man with whom I disagree on most matters of importance to me, but one who does not mistake passionate partisanship as actual principle. At least I can respect Bernie.
Although on this particular issue, politicizing the Supreme Court nomination-and-confirmation process, I don't think Bernie is so great. He's the one with litmus tests on specific issues. For example, he's said that he wouldn't nominate anyone who wouldn't vote to overturn Citizens United. I personally don't think that's how constitutional jurisprudence is supposed to work.
It's not. Anyone that pledged to overturn Citizens United in order to be considered for the post by Bernie would have to recuse themselves from decisions related to that.
Not pledged, but Presidents usually have a good idea how potential Justices are going to vote.

 
As far as I can tell, there is zero principle involved in these situations. It is, and always has been, 100% politics.

How strong is the President? How popular is he? Who does he nominate? What does the potentially obstructing party think they will gain/lose from obstructing or not obstructing? How/will it affect an election? etc. etc. etc.

 
One thing that made no sense to me on Meet the Press: they're saying that a 4-4 split would be bad for Obama because it means his executive order on immigration would be kicked back to the lower court which means it would be thrown out-

But if there's a 4-4 split on Obama's executive order, that means that if Scalia was still alive it surely would have been a 5-4 decision against Obama anyhow. So what difference does it make?
4-4 will mostly be an improvement for liberals, as Scalia would have broken the ties the 'wrong' way for them. Now left-leaning rulings from othe lower courts will stand. So it is mostly a plus in reality.

 
If forced right now to vote for one of the main stream contenders I would have to vote for Bernie, a man with whom I disagree on most matters of importance to me, but one who does not mistake passionate partisanship as actual principle. At least I can respect Bernie.
Although on this particular issue, politicizing the Supreme Court nomination-and-confirmation process, I don't think Bernie is so great. He's the one with litmus tests on specific issues. For example, he's said that he wouldn't nominate anyone who wouldn't vote to overturn Citizens United. I personally don't think that's how constitutional jurisprudence is supposed to work.
It's not. Anyone that pledged to overturn Citizens United in order to be considered for the post by Bernie would have to recuse themselves from decisions related to that.
Not pledged, but Presidents usually have a good idea how potential Justices are going to vote.
But Bernie says he won't nominate anyone that won't overturn it. If you have that level of certainty, they should recuse themselves. Their minds are already made up.

 

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