Keeping a Keeper League fresh (1 Viewer)

[ookook]

We are considering starting a keeper league and want to set it up so it does not become stale after a couple years and have owners lose interest.

So my question is: What does your keeper league use for rules and why does that set up help keep it fresh year-to-year.

Now I read SSOG's thread where they can keep 3 and have to give up a draft pick for each player kept equal to 2 rounds earlier than that used to garner the player the year before. This seems nice because no 1st or 2nd round players kept kept and even a 3rd or 4th coudl only be help for 1 more year. This seems like it would reward a smart pickup like Larry Jophnson (i.e., add value to him in last year's draft) but still have tons of talent out there next year.

Whatcha thinK? What works for you?

 

[Crimedogg32]

I think the easiest way to keep things fresh is just have a small number of keepers. This way no team can really dominate every year from just getting lucky the very first year.

 

[nightmare]

In our full blown keeper league we have a free agent auction.

Any player that is a free agent in the NFL is a free agent in our league.

If you have free agents you can decide to "franchise" one player. if an owner bids on that player you can match the bid and keep the player or let him go and get a first round draft pick in the rookie draft.

If that player is a restricted free agent(NFL) you can match the bid and you keep him.

Unrestricted FA's you have to outbid everyone to keep your guys.

Here's how the money part works. everyone has $30 for the auction.

The maximun bid you can put on any player is $20. Why? Suppose you had

Shaun Alexander, Kurt Warner and Ron Dayne as free agents. Your gonna lose $20 to keep Alexander(matching bid). the other $10 is to try to keep the rest or

bid for someone else. Say you then let Kurt Warner go for $15. You've got $25

to spend.

The auction starts out by nominating franchise players. Then on to everybody else

Restricted, unrestricted, We make exclusive rights players the same as restricted.

Obviously anyone without a first round pick in the draft can not bid(we also don't let them nominate) on franchise players.

Our order on who nominates players is the same as the rookie draft order.

 

[SSOG]

We are considering starting a keeper league and want to set it up so it does not become stale after a couple years and have owners lose interest.

So my question is: What does your keeper league use for rules and why does that set up help keep it fresh year-to-year.

Now I read SSOG's thread where they can keep 3 and have to give up a draft pick for each player kept equal to 2 rounds earlier than that used to garner the player the year before. This seems nice because no 1st or 2nd round players kept kept and even a 3rd or 4th coudl only be help for 1 more year. This seems like it would reward a smart pickup like Larry Jophnson (i.e., add value to him in last year's draft) but still have tons of talent out there next year.

Whatcha thinK? What works for you?

I like our system, especially the "Keepers cost draft position +2", because it keeps the studs (Tomlinson/Alexander/Etc) in the pool, it means you aren't screwed if you don't load up with RBs at keeper positions, and because it adds a lot of strategy late in the draft. If I were to change anything, I'd expand the number of keepers from 3 to 5. I don't think that will unnecessarily unbalance the league, since there's still a ton of roster churn (17 spots worth, in our league), and because with keepers costing draft picks, there are very few truly "studly" keepers (most keepers would be borderline candidates). I just feel like our current system feels just a little bit too much like a redraft and not enough like a Keeper, and so I'd like to add just a touch more continuity.

 

[nittanylion]

Agreed that one of the best ways to keep things fresh is to limit the # of players that can be kept...

I'm in a 16 Team local keeper featuring an auction draft. We alternate the # of keepers each year: 3-2-1-2-3-2-1-2-3 etc, etc...

In addition to this, you are only allowed to keep a given player for a maximum of three consecutive years.

Since the # of keepers is quite small, and varies from year to year, and the length of time you can keep them is somewhat limited, we throw Owners a bone by letting them keep their players for the price they originally paid for them for as long as they keep them...

Also, if you make trades in the offseason, both teams MUST keep the players involved in the trade. Can't trade auction dollars; only players.

It's a good system of checks and balances that keeps things interesting from year to year.

 

[pinequick]

Awkward conversation to have with fellow FBGs: "Fellas, does your league ever get that. . . you know, 'not-so-fresh' feeling?"

 

[jaybaer]

Our system is a fairly limited keeper scheme, but keeps the league balanced. Anybody that gets drafted in round 6 or later (16 rounds) is eligible as a keeper as long as they're on someone's roster the whole year.

The following year, if you want to keep someone, you can keep one player, but it costs you your 5th round pick.

It rewards taking flyers on rookies and guys that are a year away. I just worked out who the likely keepers will be, and they look like this:

W. Parker

S. Moss

R. Droughns

R. Brown (excellent keeper)

C. Taylor

A couple of maybes in Hasslebeck and Benson.

The guy that picked up R Brown at 6.5 last year gets rewarded, but it's not like he's a shoe-in to win the league. Although it would be nice to have that RB1 in exchange for a 5th round pick!

Hope your format works out great.

 

[OldMilwaukee]

A league I am in is a rookie keeper league, which I like very much. Any rookie you draft can be kept for three years, providing you keep him on your roster. You have to refresh your roster ever year with potential keeper. Maximum no of keeper is three.

This year I expect to see Bush go in the first round, to someone with decent keepers. Benson, Williams, Brown, Fitz, K. Jones,R. Williams, E. Maning are some of the top keepers.

 

[Sack-Religious]

In one of my keeper leagues we keep any 3 guys drafted in round 4 or later, for a maximum of two seasons (including the season in which the guy was drafted).

You lose a draft pick in whatever round your keeper was selected in. It keeps the talent pool recycling and a guy with a mid-round stud can only have him for 2 years. It keeps the interest high and no team is really out of contention because they can always build up through the draft.

Free Agent acquisitions count as a final round pick, should you wish to keep one.

 

[Aero]

Any "keeper" league that only allows 1, 2 or even 3 players to be retained isn't a real "keeper" league. ONE player?!? Let's be real, if that's what you are doing, just drop the pretense and re-draft. Save ya the trouble.

IMO, the waiver wire opportunities throughout the season, combined with the rookies coming in and the ever-increasing numbers of free agents switching teams (and changing value in doing so), makes a keeper league fresh enough. Another critical part is the willingness of some managers to instigate or accept trades throughout the season (and off-season).

FWIW, my keeper league has 12 teams, 18 man roster, and we can keep up to 11 guys. Most managers keep at least 8. And a critical item....we flex QBs AND Defenses. Basically that makes us a 2 QB starting roster, but not necessarily so. Some teams have three QBs available to start, but those folks aren't always winning the league. Defenses score such that they are worth as much as a RB2 or WR1. We do NOT have a rookie draft, so that managers have to decide to drop older or marginal guys like Warner, Chris Brown, or C-Mart in order to get a top rookie, making them available to everyone else. NO, the studs are NOT available, but that's what a keeper league is all about, IMO. This league has been around 6 years now, with only 2 owners leaving in that time.

 

[glock]

12 team $200 auction cap keeper league, 16 positions, .5/rec, 6/TD: Q,RB,RB,WR,WR,TE,K,D

The team that wins the championship can can protect(keep)ONE player for the following year. The second place team can keep 2 players while the other playoff teams can keep up to 3. All non-playoff squads can keep up to 4 players.

Players drafted between $1 -$19 shall increase by $3.

Players drafted between $20 - $29 shall increase by $4

Players drafted for $30 and over shall increase by $5

We have only 2 FA moves per owner for the season, unlimited trading and injury moves for "OUT" players.

The draft is uber important. Trading is a must if you wish to make changes.

 

[fridayfrenzy]

Can't keep players drafted in Round 3 or less.

A keeper is assigned the pick of where they were drafted (8th round for in-season pick-ups) and each year the player is kept, it decreases by a year.

Max of 2 keepers.

 

[trollmonger]

Any "keeper" league that only allows 1, 2 or even 3 players to be retained isn't a real "keeper" league. ONE player?!? Let's be real, if that's what you are doing, just drop the pretense and re-draft. Save ya the trouble. IMO, the waiver wire opportunities throughout the season, combined with the rookies coming in and the ever-increasing numbers of free agents switching teams (and changing value in doing so), makes a keeper league fresh enough. Another critical part is the willingness of some managers to instigate or accept trades throughout the season (and off-season).

I agree. I find a lot of people's suggestions seem to be to keep a minimal number of players or at least not the best players. What's the point?If it's only to keep the odd player that has value beyond his previous year's draft position, it may as well be a re-draft.I think what people fear is that one team will be able to lock up all the talent and become a dynasty so they feel that the best way to prevent this is to throw all the top players back into the draft.I like the fact that the championship team will again be a good team the following year. It gives you something to shoot for. In our league we try to find ways to give the bottom teams advantages over the top teams to narrow the gap but we don't steal from the rich to give to the poor. Things like 1. Waiver preference is always last to first.2. Draft order is always last to first.4-5 years ago, one owner had Priest, A. Green and good depth throughout and he won it two years in a row. It looked like he wouldn't be touched for years. But first he lost his depth by nature of the late waiver and draft picks but still remained competitive because of his studs and more recently has fallen completely out of contention as he hasn't been able to replace his aging studs.Admittedly, you need committed owners who are willing to take a couple of years to rebuild to have a successful league but I prefer it.

 

[pmcdade]

Our league does it a little different. We have three keepers and it doesn't matter how/when they're drafted... however every third year is treated as a re-draft league so that every third year everyone gets thrown back into the pot for a full fledged redraft.

Additionally, we have a $100 buyin. Here is how the money will be distributed:

• $50 of the money goes to the current season. At the end of the season the money pays out as follows: 50% to the Superbowl winner. 30% to the Second Place winner. 10% to the Third Place winner. 10% to the Points Leader for the Regular Season. 12 teams at $50 that's $600 to split up.

• The second $50 gets put into a kitty, set aside in a separate pot. Each year this kitty will build until the 3rd year. At the end of the 3rd season, the kitty gets split with 40% of the kitty going to the Owner with the best cumulative regular season record for the previous three years with ties splitting the pot. The other 40% added to the pot for the final season and paid out as above. 20% goes to the new kitty for the next 3 season keeper cycle. This gives incentive for people to stick with the league, and incentive for new people to buy in if an Owner does leave. The first season of a 12 team league this results in a $720 bonus to the three season record holder, a $720 bonus to the pot at the end of the 3rd season, and a $360 bonus to the new kitty starting in the next season.

The kitty grows and grows for the big Year 3 Payouts and so everyone has an incentive to stay in through the 3 year keeper cycles.

 

[MCG321]

Now I read SSOG's thread where they can keep 3 and have to give up a draft pick for each player kept equal to 2 rounds earlier than that used to garner the player the year before. This seems nice because no 1st or 2nd round players kept kept and even a 3rd or 4th coudl only be help for 1 more year. This seems like it would reward a smart pickup like Larry Jophnson (i.e., add value to him in last year's draft) but still have tons of talent out there next year.

I really like that idea - but how could you achieve that sort of thing in an auction? Charge an additional 20% to keep a player? People would still take that hit to keep the top players, so what else would work?

 

[SSOG]

Now I read SSOG's thread where they can keep 3 and have to give up a draft pick for each player kept equal to 2 rounds earlier than that used to garner the player the year before. This seems nice because no 1st or 2nd round players kept kept and even a 3rd or 4th coudl only be help for 1 more year. This seems like it would reward a smart pickup like Larry Jophnson (i.e., add value to him in last year's draft) but still have tons of talent out there next year.

I really like that idea - but how could you achieve that sort of thing in an auction? Charge an additional 20% to keep a player? People would still take that hit to keep the top players, so what else would work?

I suppose you could slot the players by dollar cost. The 24 most expensive players can't be kept. Every subsequent player can be kept, but he'd cost as much as the player 24 slots above him on the pay chart. This way, in order to keep the 29th highest paid player (roughly equivalent to pick #3.05), you'd have to pay him as much as was made by the 5th highest paid player the year before (roughly equivalent to pick #1.05).Of course, that system would have to be tweaked a little bit, but I think slotting players based on cost seems like the simplest and most logical way to go about it.

 

[Doctor Detroit]

I do an auction with two keepers and two RFAs. The keepers salary goes up related to their position each year. For example we go $7 increase for RBs, $5 for WRs, $5 for QBs, and $3 for the other players. Then we have a RFA round a week before the draft with open bidding. That really makes things interesting.

We also have a $100 FA bidding scheme throughout the year which keeps things fresh. It's basically an auction the whole season. We've been doing it for six or seven years and the biggest turnover we had was 2 teams and we are talking a long distance draft. Last year we had 4 guys in three timezones in the Continental States, one in Japan, one in Alaska and four in Europe. We have everyone coming back this year so I'm adding two spots. We have several other things that keep it fresh as well but everything in our league is put to a vote.

 

[Aero]

Well put, trollmonger. The emphasis seems to be keep only a few, or only the mid-range/lesser players. The identity of your team is based on the studs you have. Every time you play a certain owner, you know what players you have to watch out for, year in and year out. Kind of makes it more familar, and develops player-based rivalries. With the studs switching teams every year, there's no real continuity in rosters.

And yes, the bad teams stay bad for a few years, but they get the best draft order and waiver wire picks to help them improve. The way it should be. You work hard to plan ahead, get a good mix of young talent and vet production, and you reap the rewards. You come to the draft with a regurgitated internet player ranking geared toward re-draft leagues, you stay bad.

 

[GregR_2]

2 leagues that allow up to 4 keepers. 1st keeper costs you your first round pick. 2nd costs you your 2nd round pick, etc. If you don't spend a pick on a keeper you use it normally.

We looked at setting limits on how long a player could be kept. But then we looked at about 4 years of player rankings from our league and saw that a huge percentage of the top players changed from year to year, and decided to go without them. Just look at the list of guys who have been considered top 5 RBs the last 4 years. LJ, Priest, LT, SA, Ricky, Ahman, Deuce, Jamal, Edge, Portis off the top of my head. That's not counting the CuMars and Tiki's who actually finished there but didn't get viewed as being worth that early of a pick in subsequent years.

There has been plenty of movement in both leagues of top players. Last off-season Holmes, McNabb, Culpepper and Moss all were involved in trades. In fact Holmes played for a different team every season since he reached stud level. We've seen teams go from last place to contending for leading the league in points in a single season.

 

[GregR_2]

I think what people fear is that one team will be able to lock up all the talent and become a dynasty so they feel that the best way to prevent this is to throw all the top players back into the draft.

I like the fact that the championship team will again be a good team the following year. It gives you something to shoot for.

In our league we try to find ways to give the bottom teams advantages over the top teams to narrow the gap but we don't steal from the rich to give to the poor. Things like

1. Waiver preference is always last to first.

2. Draft order is always last to first.

4-5 years ago, one owner had Priest, A. Green and good depth throughout and he won it two years in a row. It looked like he wouldn't be touched for years. But first he lost his depth by nature of the late waiver and draft picks but still remained competitive because of his studs and more recently has fallen completely out of contention as he hasn't been able to replace his aging studs.

Admittedly, you need committed owners who are willing to take a couple of years to rebuild to have a successful league but I prefer it.

Very good post. As I just mentioned, we allow top players to be kept (and they are the only players who are kept). But the teams who are top teams consistently remain there because they make smarter moves and pick up new studs who replace their studs who declined.

 

[Buddy Ball 2K3]

In my league we have 2 keepers and 1 free agent.

This is what our owners love the most about the league. Our season starts about a month early with our free agent period. Each team must put up one free agent that the other owners then bid on using their draft picks.

It helps with player movement and keeps things "fresh" every off season.

 

[fridayfrenzy]

Any "keeper" league that only allows 1, 2 or even 3 players to be retained isn't a real "keeper" league. ONE player?!? Let's be real, if that's what you are doing, just drop the pretense and re-draft. Save ya the trouble.

IMO, the waiver wire opportunities throughout the season, combined with the rookies coming in and the ever-increasing numbers of free agents switching teams (and changing value in doing so), makes a keeper league fresh enough. Another critical part is the willingness of some managers to instigate or accept trades throughout the season (and off-season).

I agree. I find a lot of people's suggestions seem to be to keep a minimal number of players or at least not the best players. What's the point?If it's only to keep the odd player that has value beyond his previous year's draft position, it may as well be a re-draft.

I think what people fear is that one team will be able to lock up all the talent and become a dynasty so they feel that the best way to prevent this is to throw all the top players back into the draft.

I like the fact that the championship team will again be a good team the following year. It gives you something to shoot for.

In our league we try to find ways to give the bottom teams advantages over the top teams to narrow the gap but we don't steal from the rich to give to the poor. Things like

1. Waiver preference is always last to first.

2. Draft order is always last to first.

4-5 years ago, one owner had Priest, A. Green and good depth throughout and he won it two years in a row. It looked like he wouldn't be touched for years. But first he lost his depth by nature of the late waiver and draft picks but still remained competitive because of his studs and more recently has fallen completely out of contention as he hasn't been able to replace his aging studs.

Admittedly, you need committed owners who are willing to take a couple of years to rebuild to have a successful league but I prefer it.

The big reason for limiting keepers from the first three rounds is so that the actual draft at the start of the year is a lot more fun.Maybe you are different, but I don't see the fun in drafting Willie Parker #1 overall.

By limiting the keepers to players that weren't drafted in the 1st three rounds makes it so that the actual RE-draft is not plucked dry of all studs.

 

[jeremyx13]

Now I read SSOG's thread where they can keep 3 and have to give up a draft pick for each player kept equal to 2 rounds earlier than that used to garner the player the year before. This seems nice because no 1st or 2nd round players kept kept and even a 3rd or 4th coudl only be help for 1 more year. This seems like it would reward a smart pickup like Larry Jophnson (i.e., add value to him in last year's draft) but still have tons of talent out there next year.

I really like that idea - but how could you achieve that sort of thing in an auction? Charge an additional 20% to keep a player? People would still take that hit to keep the top players, so what else would work?

We use the same system of keeping in our league. One addition is that you can only keep players you drafted personally and were on your team at the end of the season. No waiver wires or trades are eligible to keep. Additionally, we use a 16 game straight up schedule with no playoffs. Top 4 positions get paid, the remaining battle for right to draft first the following season. Players can also only be kept for 3 seasons max. I got L. Johnson in the 8th last year so I am set for 3 years.