Kelvin Benjamin - WR - FSU [UPDATE PAGE 1, 7/3] (2 Viewers)

[Faust]

Rams, DBs the big winners in first round of 2014 NFL Draft

By Rob Rang | The Sports Xchange/CBSSports.com

Excerpt:

Some will call the Bortles pick at No. 3 a reach, but in my mind the Carolina Panthers' selection of wideout Kelvin Benjamin at No. 28 was the stretch of the first round. There is no denying the 6-foot-5, 240-pound Benjamin's upside as a featured target for Cam Newton. He offers an incredible catch radius and enough build-up speed to surprise deep. Benjamin isn't very refined as a route-runner, however, and doesn't possess ideal burst to develop in this regard. Don't get me wrong, what Benjamin does, he does well and today's NFL is all about red zone proficiency. But Benjamin may take time to adjust to the NFL and with a massive hole at left tackle due to the retirement of Jordan Gross, time is one thing Newton may not have.

 

[pollardsvision]

I have no idea how good he'll be, but I like the gamble. Late first round is a great time to swing for the fences.

I definitely prefer the pick over Lee.

How is Lee so much less of a bust candidate when he's small, not a great athlete, has his own issues with dropped balls, and might be injury prone?

If Lee is the main alternative at that point, and he's far from a slam dunk to be reliable, Benjamin just makes more sense.

They can find a small "reliable" guy later in the draft without having to pay for the name and USC pedigree (looks like 31 other teams are thinking that too).

6'5" dudes that can go grab those high balls really well are a little harder to find later in the draft or as FA's.

Also, the ultimate goal is be competing with a team like SEA late in the playoffs. Benjamin could be a good guy to have when those SEA DBs want to play WWE style.

 

[FDC]

I'm a panther homer who hated KB predraft.

It's amazing how your attitude changes after you team drafts them.

I am not going back on my predraft grade but Gettleman and Proehl's confidence in his ability to develop have me second guessing my pessimism.

 

[The Commish]

I no longer live in Charlotte, but supposedly Greg Cosell was on the local radio in CLT this morning absolutely raving about Benjamin.

Cosell has been a rather trusted evaluator...

He was on last week and then again today. He believes he's a better "route runner" than Evans, just slower. Believes he's as good or better in every measurable except speed. However, he also acknowledges that "router runner" as a measurable is laughable given every single WR coming into the NFL has to learn how to run NFL routes, so he doesn't really see the point in even talking about it. When he comes on the radio, it's my favorite 10ish minutes of the day. The guy is unreal and gives some pretty good insight outside the "draft talking points" that really mean nothing.

 

[cstu]

I no longer live in Charlotte, but supposedly Greg Cosell was on the local radio in CLT this morning absolutely raving about Benjamin.

Cosell has been a rather trusted evaluator...

He was on last week and then again today. He believes he's a better "route runner" than Evans, just slower. Believes he's as good or better in every measurable except speed. However, he also acknowledges that "router runner" as a measurable is laughable given every single WR coming into the NFL has to learn how to run NFL routes, so he doesn't really see the point in even talking about it. When he comes on the radio, it's my favorite 10ish minutes of the day. The guy is unreal and gives some pretty good insight outside the "draft talking points" that really mean nothing.

Cosell is my favorite evaluator but this is one evaluation I don't agree with. His hands aren't nearly as good as Evans.

 

[EBF]

Well, he's got the big body "go up and get it" factor, so if that's what they're looking for then he's the best off-brand option in the draft once you get past Mike Evans. There's been some chatter for months that he was a possible first round pick. NFL.com had him rated that high back in their February combine evaluations and I think I saw some mocks leading up to the draft where he went to Philly in the late 1st. I just never quite thought it would actually happen.

I think he's unlikely to succeed. Lots of red flags. He's old. He doesn't have any tangible athletic ability. Dropsies. One year wonder.

You never know though...

 

[Faust]

I forget where I heard this, but I did hear it stated that the NFL passing game has evolved to the point where you can now develop specialists in the passing game, with all of the different passing formations and offensive schemes that didn't exist 15 to 20 years ago. In essence, the point was made that if you can secure a red zone mismatch, who can specialize in the the 'back shoulder' fade route, they may not ever need to develop into a more complete WR to have a high degree of value for your passing game.

 

[TheFanatic]

Well, he's got the big body "go up and get it" factor, so if that's what they're looking for then he's the best off-brand option in the draft once you get past Mike Evans. There's been some chatter for months that he was a possible first round pick. NFL.com had him rated that high back in their February combine evaluations and I think I saw some mocks leading up to the draft where he went to Philly in the late 1st. I just never quite thought it would actually happen.

I think he's unlikely to succeed. Lots of red flags. He's old. He doesn't have any tangible athletic ability. Dropsies. One year wonder.

You never know though...

The guy isn't 24 yet. He's not Brandon Wheeden. If he's can play in this league, he'll be here for 10 years...

 

[EBF]

Well, he's got the big body "go up and get it" factor, so if that's what they're looking for then he's the best off-brand option in the draft once you get past Mike Evans. There's been some chatter for months that he was a possible first round pick. NFL.com had him rated that high back in their February combine evaluations and I think I saw some mocks leading up to the draft where he went to Philly in the late 1st. I just never quite thought it would actually happen.

I think he's unlikely to succeed. Lots of red flags. He's old. He doesn't have any tangible athletic ability. Dropsies. One year wonder.

You never know though...

The guy isn't 24 yet. He's not Brandon Wheeden. If he's can play in this league, he'll be here for 10 years...

The longevity isn't really the issue. The fact that he's 2-3 years older than all of these other WR prospects means he might be farther along in his development. So if he's only the X best WR in this draft right now, how many of these guys will surpass him once they catch up with his development? It wouldn't be a huge deterrent for me, but it's just another small variable that adds to his overall risk.

 

[TheFanatic]

Well, he's got the big body "go up and get it" factor, so if that's what they're looking for then he's the best off-brand option in the draft once you get past Mike Evans. There's been some chatter for months that he was a possible first round pick. NFL.com had him rated that high back in their February combine evaluations and I think I saw some mocks leading up to the draft where he went to Philly in the late 1st. I just never quite thought it would actually happen.

I think he's unlikely to succeed. Lots of red flags. He's old. He doesn't have any tangible athletic ability. Dropsies. One year wonder.

You never know though...

The guy isn't 24 yet. He's not Brandon Wheeden. If he's can play in this league, he'll be here for 10 years...

The longevity isn't really the issue. The fact that he's 2-3 years older than all of these other WR prospects means he might be farther along in his development. So if he's only the X best WR in this draft right now, how many of these guys will surpass him once they catch up with his development? It wouldn't be a huge deterrent for me, but it's just another small variable that adds to his overall risk.

How many of those guys are going to be busts? How many injury prone? How many will get in trouble with the law? How many will decide they want to go meditate with Ricky Williams? Anyone who drafts this guy is unlikely to have him on the roster in 5 years when that might matter. Being 23 and not 21 is extremely minor to me right now. There's a lot not to like here, for me that's just not one of them

 

[DexterDew]

Maybe CAR will draft Nicklas and just play smash mouth football with two TE sets, Benjamin at WR and Tolbert at FB? Olsen would be the smallest skilled player besides DWill or JStew

All joking aside, he is an interesting prospect/project. Has a clear path to getting snaps and maybe it will help Cam's confidence/accuracy to have such a big target. Can see him being a RZ threat right away, which is something CAR is lacking.

 

[TheFanatic]

Maybe CAR will draft Nicklas and just play smash mouth football with two TE sets, Benjamin at WR and Tolbert at FB? Olsen would be the smallest skilled player besides DWill or JStew

All joking aside, he is an interesting prospect/project. Has a clear path to getting snaps and maybe it will help Cam's confidence/accuracy to have such a big target. Can see him being a RZ threat right away, which is something CAR is lacking.

With Cam's running ability, I agree with this. Do you double and triple the mammoth WR in the endzone or leave guys back to spy on the mammoth QB behind the line of scrimmage...

 

[IC FBGCav]

Local radio is saying that both Benjamin's high school and college coaches called him a slow learner. That would scare the crap out of me.

 

[Leroy's Aces]

Brian Quick with 2 more inches and 20 more pounds. In other words an athletic freak but raw PLUS a weight problem. Yeah, I'm not sure this ends well. The guy that reaches for this guy in the rookie draft is going to get snaked by the guy who drafts whomever the Panthers draft after the first round...

He doesn't have a weight problem. He has 4.5% body fat. He is 240 lbs of muscle. Also this whole speed thing is overblown. Smaller receivers need more speed for separation, his height gives him separation. He gets a slow start but once he gets up to speed he ran by guys on a regular basis.

IF he has 4.5% body fat, then how is he supposed to get down to 225 like some teams have stated he needs to play at? Why is he talking about how much he likes to eat? Why were their reports of him being 17 lbs over weight. Love the measureables, and agree with you that he doesn't have to be lightning fast, but I'm worried about work ethic and commitment in the weight room (and the buffet table).

He isn't going to. The Panthers have said they are fine with him at his current weight. Which is good because there is nothing to lose. In fact I would guess an NFL workout program is going to maybe add a pound or two. Arbitrary weight limits are assigned because so and so plays at that weight. As far as work ethic and commitment I remember those same "issues" with a QB the Panthers drafted a few years ago. Seems to be working out so far.

Kelvin Benjamin

Person With 5% Bodyfat

I can say with confidence that Benjamin is probably in the mid-teens for bodyfat percentage based on the fat in his face, lack of muscularity in his arms and overall physique.

 

[FDC]

Maybe CAR will draft Nicklas and just play smash mouth football with two TE sets, Benjamin at WR and Tolbert at FB? Olsen would be the smallest skilled player besides DWill or JStew

All joking aside, he is an interesting prospect/project. Has a clear path to getting snaps and maybe it will help Cam's confidence/accuracy to have such a big target. Can see him being a RZ threat right away, which is something CAR is lacking.

I definitely think it is coming. I also think it was partly why Smitty was let go - he essentially can only play slot anymore.

 

[EBF]

Well, he's got the big body "go up and get it" factor, so if that's what they're looking for then he's the best off-brand option in the draft once you get past Mike Evans. There's been some chatter for months that he was a possible first round pick. NFL.com had him rated that high back in their February combine evaluations and I think I saw some mocks leading up to the draft where he went to Philly in the late 1st. I just never quite thought it would actually happen.

I think he's unlikely to succeed. Lots of red flags. He's old. He doesn't have any tangible athletic ability. Dropsies. One year wonder.

You never know though...

The guy isn't 24 yet. He's not Brandon Wheeden. If he's can play in this league, he'll be here for 10 years...

The longevity isn't really the issue. The fact that he's 2-3 years older than all of these other WR prospects means he might be farther along in his development. So if he's only the X best WR in this draft right now, how many of these guys will surpass him once they catch up with his development? It wouldn't be a huge deterrent for me, but it's just another small variable that adds to his overall risk.

How many of those guys are going to be busts? How many injury prone? How many will get in trouble with the law? How many will decide they want to go meditate with Ricky Williams? Anyone who drafts this guy is unlikely to have him on the roster in 5 years when that might matter. Being 23 and not 21 is extremely minor to me right now. There's a lot not to like here, for me that's just not one of them

I don't know if you really go what I'm saying. It's not about longevity. It's about his advanced age making him look better relative to his peers than he really is.

Like a 12 year old boy who plays basketball in a league with 9 year olds. Comparing them side by side, he would look a lot better. Once those other kids catch up in age, maybe they will look a lot better. It's not quite as extreme in this case because these prospects have all passed the generic "adult" barrier, but a 23 year old will, on average, be farther along in his physical development than a 20 year old. Maybe a guy like Moncrief, Latimer, or Robinson who is younger than Benjamin will surpass him with another year or two of physical development.

 

[FDC]

I don't know if you really go what I'm saying. It's not about longevity. It's about his advanced age making him look better relative to his peers than he really is.

Like a 12 year old boy who plays basketball in a league with 9 year olds. Comparing them side by side, he would look a lot better. Once those other kids catch up in age, maybe they will look a lot better. It's not quite as extreme in this case because these prospects have all passed the generic "adult" barrier, but a 23 year old will, on average, be farther along in his physical development than a 20 year old. Maybe a guy like Moncrief, Latimer, or Robinson who is younger than Benjamin will surpass him with another year or two of physical development.

It is a valid point

Although I do think there is some developmental value of exposure to games/reps at the high levels of football

Benjamin is 2 years ahead of everyone because he was held back 2 years before highschool.

In the developmental sense he could still be a baby

 

[pollardsvision]

With the age concerns, you guys do realize that the main alternative for WR at that spot, the "safe" guy, is only 9 months younger than Benjamin.

 

[FDC]

With the age concerns, you guys do realize that the main alternative for WR at that spot, the "safe" guy, is only 9 months younger than Benjamin.

With something like a 4% higher drop rate

 

[Concept Coop]

With the age concerns, you guys do realize that the main alternative for WR at that spot, the "safe" guy, is only 9 months younger than Benjamin.

The age concern is more about when the production took place. Benjamin didn't take off until he was a 22 YO playing against 18-22 YOs. There is a clear trend that suggests the later you break out, the less likely you are to live up to your draft spot.

That said, the trend should only be used as a flag to look into each individual case, rather than to use it as dogma.

 

[cstu]

With the age concerns, you guys do realize that the main alternative for WR at that spot, the "safe" guy, is only 9 months younger than Benjamin.

The age concern is more about when the production took place. Benjamin didn't take off until he was a 22 YO playing against 18-22 YOs. There is a clear trend that suggests the later you broke out, the less likely you are to live up to your draft spot.

That said, the trend should only be used as a flag to look into each individual case, rather than to use it as dogma.

Not to mention that player being compared is Marqise Lee who broke out as a 20 year old true freshman.

 

[jurb26]

With the age concerns, you guys do realize that the main alternative for WR at that spot, the "safe" guy, is only 9 months younger than Benjamin.

The age concern is more about when the production took place. Benjamin didn't take off until he was a 22 YO playing against 18-22 YOs. There is a clear trend that suggests the later you broke out, the less likely you are to live up to your draft spot.

That said, the trend should only be used as a flag to look into each individual case, rather than to use it as dogma.

Yeah, this is correct. The flags are stacking quickly for Benjamin. Only 1 year of production.

Later bloomer and relatively old.

Lacks suddenness and explosion.

Bellow average athlete for the position.

Displayed lapses in concentration, easy drops.

Not a very polished route runner, despite his age.

 

[stbugs]

Maybe CAR will draft Nicklas and just play smash mouth football with two TE sets, Benjamin at WR and Tolbert at FB? Olsen would be the smallest skilled player besides DWill or JStew

All joking aside, he is an interesting prospect/project. Has a clear path to getting snaps and maybe it will help Cam's confidence/accuracy to have such a big target. Can see him being a RZ threat right away, which is something CAR is lacking.

With Cam's running ability, I agree with this. Do you double and triple the mammoth WR in the endzone or leave guys back to spy on the mammoth QB behind the line of scrimmage...

This is actually a very good point. The red zone offense was terrible last year, especially in the playoffs (remember the fiasco against SF?). He could be a tremendous help there.

 

[TheFanatic]

Well, he's got the big body "go up and get it" factor, so if that's what they're looking for then he's the best off-brand option in the draft once you get past Mike Evans. There's been some chatter for months that he was a possible first round pick. NFL.com had him rated that high back in their February combine evaluations and I think I saw some mocks leading up to the draft where he went to Philly in the late 1st. I just never quite thought it would actually happen.

I think he's unlikely to succeed. Lots of red flags. He's old. He doesn't have any tangible athletic ability. Dropsies. One year wonder.

You never know though...

The guy isn't 24 yet. He's not Brandon Wheeden. If he's can play in this league, he'll be here for 10 years...

The longevity isn't really the issue. The fact that he's 2-3 years older than all of these other WR prospects means he might be farther along in his development. So if he's only the X best WR in this draft right now, how many of these guys will surpass him once they catch up with his development? It wouldn't be a huge deterrent for me, but it's just another small variable that adds to his overall risk.

How many of those guys are going to be busts? How many injury prone? How many will get in trouble with the law? How many will decide they want to go meditate with Ricky Williams? Anyone who drafts this guy is unlikely to have him on the roster in 5 years when that might matter. Being 23 and not 21 is extremely minor to me right now. There's a lot not to like here, for me that's just not one of them

I don't know if you really go what I'm saying. It's not about longevity. It's about his advanced age making him look better relative to his peers than he really is.

Like a 12 year old boy who plays basketball in a league with 9 year olds. Comparing them side by side, he would look a lot better. Once those other kids catch up in age, maybe they will look a lot better. It's not quite as extreme in this case because these prospects have all passed the generic "adult" barrier, but a 23 year old will, on average, be farther along in his physical development than a 20 year old. Maybe a guy like Moncrief, Latimer, or Robinson who is younger than Benjamin will surpass him with another year or two of physical development.

Oh, I get it now. I was thinking about longevity in the league. I get what you are saying and it makes sense at the 9 and 12 year olds, but I'm not sure it does at 20 and 22. It might be valid. I would need to see some sort of study showing this to be true. There is anecdotal evidence (Weinke and Wheeden come to mind) but those are extreme cases. Anyone got any way of tracking this? Stats gurus?

 

[Concept Coop]

I like the pick more for Carolina than I would for just about any other team. They are in a position to swing for the fences, with a very talented roster. They have a unique talent at QB that can move the ball without throwing for 300 yards a game and they needed a jumpball guy in the worst way. Benjamin could come in and make a difference on 50 receptions and 5 TDs.

I'm not sold on the pick, and would have liked for them to go a different way if I was a fan of the team. But it makes sense.

 

[Concept Coop]

Oh, I get it now. I was thinking about longevity in the league. I get what you are saying and it makes sense at the 9 and 12 year olds, but I'm not sure it does at 20 and 22. It might be valid. I would need to see some sort of study showing this to be true. There is anecdotal evidence (Weinke and Wheeden come to mind) but those are extreme cases. Anyone got any way of tracking this? Stats gurus?

http://rotoviz.com/index.php/2014/01/the-rotoviz-skeleton-key-picking-better-wide-receivers-for-fantasy-football/

 

[jurb26]

I like the pick more for Carolina than I would for just about any other team. They are in a position to swing for the fences, with a very talented roster. They have a unique talent at QB that can move the ball without throwing for 300 yards a game and they needed a jumpball guy in the worst way. Benjamin could come in and make a difference on 50 receptions and 5 TDs.

I'm not sold on the pick, and would have liked for them to go a different way if I was a fan of the team. But it makes sense.

The problem is, the roster isn't very talented anymore. They lost their best Olinemen, best DB and their best 4 WRs. Outside of the front 7 on D, this team is in need of talent in a bad way.

 

[Concept Coop]

I like the pick more for Carolina than I would for just about any other team. They are in a position to swing for the fences, with a very talented roster. They have a unique talent at QB that can move the ball without throwing for 300 yards a game and they needed a jumpball guy in the worst way. Benjamin could come in and make a difference on 50 receptions and 5 TDs.

I'm not sold on the pick, and would have liked for them to go a different way if I was a fan of the team. But it makes sense.

The problem is, the roster isn't very talented anymore. They lost their best Olinemen, best DB and their best 4 WRs. Outside of the front 7 on D, this team is in need of talent in a bad way.

I forgot about Gross, which will certainly hurt. But I still expect them to be a very tough team despite their losses. I don't think the loss of their WRs are going to hurt as much as most seem to. They weren't very good, outside of Smith, who isn't a #1 any more. Their defense will still win games, assuming Cam can control the clock and move the ball.

 

[TheFanatic]

Oh, I get it now. I was thinking about longevity in the league. I get what you are saying and it makes sense at the 9 and 12 year olds, but I'm not sure it does at 20 and 22. It might be valid. I would need to see some sort of study showing this to be true. There is anecdotal evidence (Weinke and Wheeden come to mind) but those are extreme cases. Anyone got any way of tracking this? Stats gurus?

http://rotoviz.com/index.php/2014/01/the-rotoviz-skeleton-key-picking-better-wide-receivers-for-fantasy-football/

That's a nice start, but I'm a little leery of the drop for 20 year olds and the jump in 21 year olds. Also that the pool is much smaller for 22 year old players because most of them are out of college by then due to the fact that the vast majority start college at 18 and are done by 21 and have no ways to control for that.

ETA, thanks for finding that link. It's a nice little nugget of info...

 

[Concept Coop]

That's a nice start, but I'm a little leery of the drop for 20 year olds and the jump in 21 year olds. Also that the pool is much smaller for 22 year old players because most of them are out of college by then due to the fact that the vast majority start college at 18 and are done by 21 and have no ways to control for that.

ETA, thanks for finding that link. It's a nice little nugget of info...

Yeah, I have concerns about the metric as well. But, as you said, it's nice and can't hurt as long as you don't take it as gospel.

 

[pollardsvision]

With the age concerns, you guys do realize that the main alternative for WR at that spot, the "safe" guy, is only 9 months younger than Benjamin.

The age concern is more about when the production took place. Benjamin didn't take off until he was a 22 YO playing against 18-22 YOs. There is a clear trend that suggests the later you break out, the less likely you are to live up to your draft spot.

That said, the trend should only be used as a flag to look into each individual case, rather than to use it as dogma.

I agree in general.

Just pointing out that Lee is similar in age.

You don't have to look to hard to find old rookie WRs that "broke out" in their junior or senior year of college (breaking out obviously being debatable), and went on to have great careers.

Roddy White was a 24 YO rookie that took 3 years college against horrible competition in college to eclipse 600 yards and 3 TDs.

Reggie Wayne was a 23 YO rookie that took 4 years in college to get past 700 yards.

Boldin was a 23 YO rookie that broke out his junior year just before heading to the draft.

Jordy Nelson was a 23 YO rookie that broke out as a junior.

Benjamin has all kinds of red flags and he might very well be a bust, but I think he's a better pick than Lee and I'm not too worried about the breaking out as a 22 year old against 18-22 year olds part.

 

[The Commish]

I no longer live in Charlotte, but supposedly Greg Cosell was on the local radio in CLT this morning absolutely raving about Benjamin.

Cosell has been a rather trusted evaluator...

He was on last week and then again today. He believes he's a better "route runner" than Evans, just slower. Believes he's as good or better in every measurable except speed. However, he also acknowledges that "router runner" as a measurable is laughable given every single WR coming into the NFL has to learn how to run NFL routes, so he doesn't really see the point in even talking about it. When he comes on the radio, it's my favorite 10ish minutes of the day. The guy is unreal and gives some pretty good insight outside the "draft talking points" that really mean nothing.

Cosell is my favorite evaluator but this is one evaluation I don't agree with. His hands aren't nearly as good as Evans.

He needs to work on his focus with respect to "routine" plays. In the air and on difficult catches, I wouldn't take anyone else out of this class...including Evans. He'll make an unbelievable catch and exhibit unreal body control in the air then drop a ball where he's all by himself as it hits him in the numbers.

 

[NCCommish]

Brian Quick with 2 more inches and 20 more pounds. In other words an athletic freak but raw PLUS a weight problem. Yeah, I'm not sure this ends well. The guy that reaches for this guy in the rookie draft is going to get snaked by the guy who drafts whomever the Panthers draft after the first round...

He doesn't have a weight problem. He has 4.5% body fat. He is 240 lbs of muscle. Also this whole speed thing is overblown. Smaller receivers need more speed for separation, his height gives him separation. He gets a slow start but once he gets up to speed he ran by guys on a regular basis.

IF he has 4.5% body fat, then how is he supposed to get down to 225 like some teams have stated he needs to play at? Why is he talking about how much he likes to eat? Why were their reports of him being 17 lbs over weight. Love the measureables, and agree with you that he doesn't have to be lightning fast, but I'm worried about work ethic and commitment in the weight room (and the buffet table).

He isn't going to. The Panthers have said they are fine with him at his current weight. Which is good because there is nothing to lose. In fact I would guess an NFL workout program is going to maybe add a pound or two. Arbitrary weight limits are assigned because so and so plays at that weight. As far as work ethic and commitment I remember those same "issues" with a QB the Panthers drafted a few years ago. Seems to be working out so far.

Kelvin Benjamin

Person With 5% Bodyfat

I can say with confidence that Benjamin is probably in the mid-teens for bodyfat percentage based on the fat in his face, lack of muscularity in his arms and overall physique.

I think you may need a new picture. The 4.5 % was reported from the combine by various people including himself.

 

[cstu]

I no longer live in Charlotte, but supposedly Greg Cosell was on the local radio in CLT this morning absolutely raving about Benjamin.

Cosell has been a rather trusted evaluator...

He was on last week and then again today. He believes he's a better "route runner" than Evans, just slower. Believes he's as good or better in every measurable except speed. However, he also acknowledges that "router runner" as a measurable is laughable given every single WR coming into the NFL has to learn how to run NFL routes, so he doesn't really see the point in even talking about it. When he comes on the radio, it's my favorite 10ish minutes of the day. The guy is unreal and gives some pretty good insight outside the "draft talking points" that really mean nothing.

Cosell is my favorite evaluator but this is one evaluation I don't agree with. His hands aren't nearly as good as Evans.

He needs to work on his focus with respect to "routine" plays. In the air and on difficult catches, I wouldn't take anyone else out of this class...including Evans. He'll make an unbelievable catch and exhibit unreal body control in the air then drop a ball where he's all by himself as it hits him in the numbers.

Evans is 2.5 years younger and caught twice as many passes the past two years as Benjamin. Neither has perfect hands but I've seen Evans made many more tough plays and trust him much more.

 

[BassNBrew]

I no longer live in Charlotte, but supposedly Greg Cosell was on the local radio in CLT this morning absolutely raving about Benjamin.

Cosell has been a rather trusted evaluator...

He was on last week and then again today. He believes he's a better "route runner" than Evans, just slower. Believes he's as good or better in every measurable except speed. However, he also acknowledges that "router runner" as a measurable is laughable given every single WR coming into the NFL has to learn how to run NFL routes, so he doesn't really see the point in even talking about it. When he comes on the radio, it's my favorite 10ish minutes of the day. The guy is unreal and gives some pretty good insight outside the "draft talking points" that really mean nothing.

Cosell is my favorite evaluator but this is one evaluation I don't agree with. His hands aren't nearly as good as Evans.

He needs to work on his focus with respect to "routine" plays. In the air and on difficult catches, I wouldn't take anyone else out of this class...including Evans. He'll make an unbelievable catch and exhibit unreal body control in the air then drop a ball where he's all by himself as it hits him in the numbers.

Evans is 2.5 years younger and caught twice as many passes the past two years as Benjamin. Neither has perfect hands but I've seen Evans made many more tough plays and trust him much more.

Can we get a comparison of catches made that won a national championship?

 

[pollardsvision]

I no longer live in Charlotte, but supposedly Greg Cosell was on the local radio in CLT this morning absolutely raving about Benjamin.

Cosell has been a rather trusted evaluator...

He was on last week and then again today. He believes he's a better "route runner" than Evans, just slower. Believes he's as good or better in every measurable except speed. However, he also acknowledges that "router runner" as a measurable is laughable given every single WR coming into the NFL has to learn how to run NFL routes, so he doesn't really see the point in even talking about it. When he comes on the radio, it's my favorite 10ish minutes of the day. The guy is unreal and gives some pretty good insight outside the "draft talking points" that really mean nothing.

Cosell is my favorite evaluator but this is one evaluation I don't agree with. His hands aren't nearly as good as Evans.

He needs to work on his focus with respect to "routine" plays. In the air and on difficult catches, I wouldn't take anyone else out of this class...including Evans. He'll make an unbelievable catch and exhibit unreal body control in the air then drop a ball where he's all by himself as it hits him in the numbers.

Listening to the naysayers, he won't be able to get much separation, so maybe he won't have to worry about dropping many routine, uncontested balls.

Either way, the spaces get tighter moving to the NFL for all WRs and for all of the things Benjamin may lack, he can go get a ball in (or above) traffic.

 

[pollardsvision]

Does anybody know the NFL record for average height and weight of a team's QB and top WR (Josh Freeman/Mike Williams?)? I'm sure that's about to be broken (not that it's terribly meaningful in and of itself). Newton/Benjamin clock in at 6' 5.5" and 250 lbs I believe.

 

[Borden]

If they were going to reach for a big pass catcher I think they should've went with ASJ. I'm not a fan of Benjamin but I think on most mocks there wasn't a huge gap between the two of them. The other thing is that WR talent that will be left at the end of round two should be much higher than the talent left at TE.

 

[Leroy's Aces]

Brian Quick with 2 more inches and 20 more pounds. In other words an athletic freak but raw PLUS a weight problem. Yeah, I'm not sure this ends well. The guy that reaches for this guy in the rookie draft is going to get snaked by the guy who drafts whomever the Panthers draft after the first round...

He doesn't have a weight problem. He has 4.5% body fat. He is 240 lbs of muscle. Also this whole speed thing is overblown. Smaller receivers need more speed for separation, his height gives him separation. He gets a slow start but once he gets up to speed he ran by guys on a regular basis.

IF he has 4.5% body fat, then how is he supposed to get down to 225 like some teams have stated he needs to play at? Why is he talking about how much he likes to eat? Why were their reports of him being 17 lbs over weight. Love the measureables, and agree with you that he doesn't have to be lightning fast, but I'm worried about work ethic and commitment in the weight room (and the buffet table).

He isn't going to. The Panthers have said they are fine with him at his current weight. Which is good because there is nothing to lose. In fact I would guess an NFL workout program is going to maybe add a pound or two. Arbitrary weight limits are assigned because so and so plays at that weight. As far as work ethic and commitment I remember those same "issues" with a QB the Panthers drafted a few years ago. Seems to be working out so far.

Kelvin Benjamin

Person With 5% Bodyfat

I can say with confidence that Benjamin is probably in the mid-teens for bodyfat percentage based on the fat in his face, lack of muscularity in his arms and overall physique.

I think you may need a new picture. The 4.5 % was reported from the combine by various people including himself.

Okay, please identify one vein or muscle striation here. You can see his gut through his shirt for crying out loud. You can barely identify where the biceps stops and the deltoid starts. People (including Benjamin himself) have no idea as to how lean 4.5% bodyfat is. This is 6%, so apparently Benjamin is 1.5% leaner than this. Terrell Owens was in the 5-7% range. Benjamin is not 4.5%, not 8%, nor 10%, he is probably about 13-15%. That is why they want him to lose 17 pounds, to lower his bodyfat. If Benjamin was 4.5% and lost 12+ pounds of fat, he would literally be dead since you need 3% of fat to protect internal organs.

Sorry to be a knob about it, but I had previously leaned out to 6.5% at one point, training with Martin Berkhan (pictured). It is incredibly difficult to get to 4-6% and maintain it, even for pro athletes.

 

[cstu]

Does anybody know the NFL record for average height and weight of a team's QB and top WR (Josh Freeman/Mike Williams?)? I'm sure that's about to be broken (not that it's terribly meaningful in and of itself). Newton/Benjamin clock in at 6' 5.5" and 250 lbs I believe.

Jamarcus Russell and whoever his WR was.

 

[TheFanatic]

Brian Quick with 2 more inches and 20 more pounds. In other words an athletic freak but raw PLUS a weight problem. Yeah, I'm not sure this ends well. The guy that reaches for this guy in the rookie draft is going to get snaked by the guy who drafts whomever the Panthers draft after the first round...

He doesn't have a weight problem. He has 4.5% body fat. He is 240 lbs of muscle. Also this whole speed thing is overblown. Smaller receivers need more speed for separation, his height gives him separation. He gets a slow start but once he gets up to speed he ran by guys on a regular basis.

IF he has 4.5% body fat, then how is he supposed to get down to 225 like some teams have stated he needs to play at? Why is he talking about how much he likes to eat? Why were their reports of him being 17 lbs over weight. Love the measureables, and agree with you that he doesn't have to be lightning fast, but I'm worried about work ethic and commitment in the weight room (and the buffet table).

He isn't going to. The Panthers have said they are fine with him at his current weight. Which is good because there is nothing to lose. In fact I would guess an NFL workout program is going to maybe add a pound or two. Arbitrary weight limits are assigned because so and so plays at that weight. As far as work ethic and commitment I remember those same "issues" with a QB the Panthers drafted a few years ago. Seems to be working out so far.

Kelvin Benjamin

Person With 5% Bodyfat

I can say with confidence that Benjamin is probably in the mid-teens for bodyfat percentage based on the fat in his face, lack of muscularity in his arms and overall physique.

I think you may need a new picture. The 4.5 % was reported from the combine by various people including himself.

Okay, please identify one vein or muscle striation here. You can see his gut through his shirt for crying out loud. You can barely identify where the biceps stops and the deltoid starts. People (including Benjamin himself) have no idea as to how lean 4.5% bodyfat is. This is 6%, so apparently Benjamin is 1.5% leaner than this. Terrell Owens was in the 5-7% range. Benjamin is not 4.5%, not 8%, nor 10%, he is probably about 13-15%. That is why they want him to lose 17 pounds, to lower his bodyfat. If Benjamin was 4.5% and lost 12+ pounds of fat, he would literally be dead since you need 3% of fat to protect internal organs.

Sorry to be a knob about it, but I had previously leaned out to 6.5% at one point, training with Martin Berkhan (pictured). It is incredibly difficult to get to 4-6% and maintain it, even for pro athletes.

Yeah, that pic from the combine is not someone close to 4.5% body fat. No friggin way.

 

[The Commish]

I no longer live in Charlotte, but supposedly Greg Cosell was on the local radio in CLT this morning absolutely raving about Benjamin.

Cosell has been a rather trusted evaluator...

He was on last week and then again today. He believes he's a better "route runner" than Evans, just slower. Believes he's as good or better in every measurable except speed. However, he also acknowledges that "router runner" as a measurable is laughable given every single WR coming into the NFL has to learn how to run NFL routes, so he doesn't really see the point in even talking about it. When he comes on the radio, it's my favorite 10ish minutes of the day. The guy is unreal and gives some pretty good insight outside the "draft talking points" that really mean nothing.

Cosell is my favorite evaluator but this is one evaluation I don't agree with. His hands aren't nearly as good as Evans.

He needs to work on his focus with respect to "routine" plays. In the air and on difficult catches, I wouldn't take anyone else out of this class...including Evans. He'll make an unbelievable catch and exhibit unreal body control in the air then drop a ball where he's all by himself as it hits him in the numbers.

Listening to the naysayers, he won't be able to get much separation, so maybe he won't have to worry about dropping many routine, uncontested balls.

Either way, the spaces get tighter moving to the NFL for all WRs and for all of the things Benjamin may lack, he can go get a ball in (or above) traffic.

I laugh, along with Cosell, about that the "separation" shtick. Dude is 6 foot 5. Out of the gate he has separation. I'm interesting in ctsu's breakdown on what he sees on tape when it comes to Benjiman. I don't watch tape like Cosell and apparently ctsu. I just see the games on TV. All I know is Ricky wanted him, Cosell is on board. I guess time will tell.

 

[DAG]

Maybe CAR will draft Nicklas and just play smash mouth football with two TE sets, Benjamin at WR and Tolbert at FB? Olsen would be the smallest skilled player besides DWill or JStew

All joking aside, he is an interesting prospect/project. Has a clear path to getting snaps and maybe it will help Cam's confidence/accuracy to have such a big target. Can see him being a RZ threat right away, which is something CAR is lacking.

With Cam's running ability, I agree with this. Do you double and triple the mammoth WR in the endzone or leave guys back to spy on the mammoth QB behind the line of scrimmage...

This is actually a very good point. The red zone offense was terrible last year, especially in the playoffs (remember the fiasco against SF?). He could be a tremendous help there.

This is the one definite benefit I can see right away. Benjamin does seem to give the Panthers a unique set of redzone threats that complement Newton's skills. Otherwise this was the one guy I was hoping the team wouldn't take. Several good evaluators like him so I'm hoping that I have him wrong. I do think that separation (as other have mentioned in the thread) is a different calculation for a kid his size, or Evans's size. The difference between Evans (who I think could be elite despite not having the kind of short-area quickness to get free from DBs) and Benjamin is, as cstu suggested, hands. If you can't create separation but you can body guys up and snatch passes away from them/away from your body, then great; that's Evans's future imo. Both Evans and Benjamin caught around 25% of their passes from 20+ yards, so that's a comparable strength, but Evans had a 4.29% drop rate while Benjamin had 9.68%.

 

[cstu]

Benjamin = Baldwin

Both late 1st round reaches who fantasy owners will value too highly for years to come.

In Benjamin's favor is Cam, who is well above anything Baldwin had at QB his first two years, and little competition so he should produce better right away. You could probably trade him next year to someone excited about his upside.

 

[cstu]

I no longer live in Charlotte, but supposedly Greg Cosell was on the local radio in CLT this morning absolutely raving about Benjamin.

Cosell has been a rather trusted evaluator...

He was on last week and then again today. He believes he's a better "route runner" than Evans, just slower. Believes he's as good or better in every measurable except speed. However, he also acknowledges that "router runner" as a measurable is laughable given every single WR coming into the NFL has to learn how to run NFL routes, so he doesn't really see the point in even talking about it. When he comes on the radio, it's my favorite 10ish minutes of the day. The guy is unreal and gives some pretty good insight outside the "draft talking points" that really mean nothing.

Cosell is my favorite evaluator but this is one evaluation I don't agree with. His hands aren't nearly as good as Evans.

He needs to work on his focus with respect to "routine" plays. In the air and on difficult catches, I wouldn't take anyone else out of this class...including Evans. He'll make an unbelievable catch and exhibit unreal body control in the air then drop a ball where he's all by himself as it hits him in the numbers.

Listening to the naysayers, he won't be able to get much separation, so maybe he won't have to worry about dropping many routine, uncontested balls.

Either way, the spaces get tighter moving to the NFL for all WRs and for all of the things Benjamin may lack, he can go get a ball in (or above) traffic.

I laugh, along with Cosell, about that the "separation" shtick. Dude is 6 foot 5. Out of the gate he has separation. I'm interesting in ctsu's breakdown on what he sees on tape when it comes to Benjiman. I don't watch tape like Cosell and apparently ctsu. I just see the games on TV. All I know is Ricky wanted him, Cosell is on board. I guess time will tell.

I don't watch any college football and look only at the break downs. Because of that I don't get caught up in emotion over team wins and certain plays (like Benjamin's winning TD). I don't completely ignore those things but I look mainly at technique and how I think a player's skills will translate.

There are skills that Benjamin possesses that leave the door open for him to become a good WR but I've backed off of developmental WR's in recent years. As a 2nd round rookie pick, sure, roll the dice, but he's not a 1st round pick and there are players I prefer in the early 2nd as well.

 

[zed2283]

Well, its that time of year again and I have began to start looking at Wide Receivers and as of right now this guy is my #1 Ranked Wide Receiver. He's got the size (6 ft 5, 245 lbs) with athleticism to boot. Great hands.

With a great combine I don't see a way he falls out of the Top 15 this year. He's a freak talent that sits squarely on top of my WR Rankings.

1.) Kelvin Benjamin

2.) Sammy Watkins

3.) Jarvis Landry

4.) Mike Evans

5.) Marquise Lee

This guy is a monster.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTkyr7Qv8mc

Didn't read the thread, so I don't know if anyone commented on it.

I think the catch at 0:22 is the one they've been showing on the highlights, but from a slightly different angle. But this is an amazing, amazing catch. Turning your head all the way around and finding the ball again is the most difficult adjustment a WR can make, and I've never seen it done like that before. Usually it's on a deep pass down the field and there's some time for the WR. But this one is on a line and he just spins and catches the ball. A really impressive catch.

 

[cstu]

Well, its that time of year again and I have began to start looking at Wide Receivers and as of right now this guy is my #1 Ranked Wide Receiver. He's got the size (6 ft 5, 245 lbs) with athleticism to boot. Great hands.

With a great combine I don't see a way he falls out of the Top 15 this year. He's a freak talent that sits squarely on top of my WR Rankings.

1.) Kelvin Benjamin

2.) Sammy Watkins

3.) Jarvis Landry

4.) Mike Evans

5.) Marquise Lee

This guy is a monster.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTkyr7Qv8mc

Didn't read the thread, so I don't know if anyone commented on it.

I think the catch at 0:22 is the one they've been showing on the highlights, but from a slightly different angle. But this is an amazing, amazing catch. Turning your head all the way around and finding the ball again is the most difficult adjustment a WR can make, and I've never seen it done like that before. Usually it's on a deep pass down the field and there's some time for the WR. But this one is on a line and he just spins and catches the ball. A really impressive catch.

Baldwin 2009.

 

[floods]

Well, its that time of year again and I have began to start looking at Wide Receivers and as of right now this guy is my #1 Ranked Wide Receiver. He's got the size (6 ft 5, 245 lbs) with athleticism to boot. Great hands.

With a great combine I don't see a way he falls out of the Top 15 this year. He's a freak talent that sits squarely on top of my WR Rankings.

1.) Kelvin Benjamin

2.) Sammy Watkins

3.) Jarvis Landry

4.) Mike Evans

5.) Marquise Lee

This guy is a monster.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTkyr7Qv8mc

Didn't read the thread, so I don't know if anyone commented on it.

I think the catch at 0:22 is the one they've been showing on the highlights, but from a slightly different angle. But this is an amazing, amazing catch. Turning your head all the way around and finding the ball again is the most difficult adjustment a WR can make, and I've never seen it done like that before. Usually it's on a deep pass down the field and there's some time for the WR. But this one is on a line and he just spins and catches the ball. A really impressive catch.

Baldwin 2009.

I may be wrong, but wasn't Baldwin's issue not physical ability, but the attitude, work ethic, and mental aspects of the game?

Question for those who have scouted Benjamin: How well does he track the ball over his shoulder aside from the :22 catch in the previously posted video? It seems like he's always facing up to catch the ball and anything more is YAC. I don't know that I've seen him catch a seam route over the shoulder, or even a fade.

 

[Touchdown There]

I doubt this guys speed, separation and work ethic. The Panthers made a mistake here with all the other WRs on the board.

 

[Sabertooth]

Packets got a much better player in round 2 with Adams.