What's new
Fantasy Football - Footballguys Forums

This is a sample guest message. Register a free account today to become a member! Once signed in, you'll be able to participate on this site by adding your own topics and posts, as well as connect with other members through your own private inbox!

Keto II (1 Viewer)

Off the rails last night at a work dinner.  uuuugggggh.

I need to stop drinking alcohol.  I just don't know how.
I find that if I drink on a given day, I'm very likely to drink (or at least want to drink) the following day.   However, if I take just a single day off, its much easier to NOT drink the following day.  String a couple days together; try to get in a groove.  You may not stop completely but you should drink less.

 
Support needed... 

I'm thinking for the first time in well over a year of allowing myself one cheat weekend. 

I'm going through a divorce as I mentioned and flying to Boston to see some prospective new houses. 

I'm now just 18 lbs from my final goal weight. I'm already at my initial goal weight. 

I'm thinner than I was my senior year of high school. 

There are a few food items from home I would love to enjoy as I haven't had them in years. 

I never cheat. Not even a little. 

What say my brothers here? 

 
Support needed... 

I'm thinking for the first time in well over a year of allowing myself one cheat weekend. 

I'm going through a divorce as I mentioned and flying to Boston to see some prospective new houses. 

I'm now just 18 lbs from my final goal weight. I'm already at my initial goal weight. 

I'm thinner than I was my senior year of high school. 

There are a few food items from home I would love to enjoy as I haven't had them in years. 

I never cheat. Not even a little. 

What say my brothers here? 
pull out some old photos of yourself or some old clothes and remind yourself that you do not want to return.  What seems like one weekend can become a slippery slope.  What are the food items holding this power over you that make you consider changing your way of life?  And remember, it is not a diet, it is your way of living that you are considering abandoning.

 
pull out some old photos of yourself or some old clothes and remind yourself that you do not want to return.  What seems like one weekend can become a slippery slope.  What are the food items holding this power over you that make you consider changing your way of life?  And remember, it is not a diet, it is your way of living that you are considering abandoning.
That's exactly what I needed to hear. Thank you. 

I really want what we call in Rhode Island a clam cake. It's like a clam donut or beignet, one of the best things in the world. 

 
Support needed... 

I'm thinking for the first time in well over a year of allowing myself one cheat weekend. 

I'm going through a divorce as I mentioned and flying to Boston to see some prospective new houses. 

I'm now just 18 lbs from my final goal weight. I'm already at my initial goal weight. 

I'm thinner than I was my senior year of high school. 

There are a few food items from home I would love to enjoy as I haven't had them in years. 

I never cheat. Not even a little. 

What say my brothers here? 
Have your cheat weekend.

You haven't had one in over a year.  Even if you put on a couple pounds, it's not the end of the world.  You'll lose it right back.

 
Support needed... 

I'm thinking for the first time in well over a year of allowing myself one cheat weekend. 

I'm going through a divorce as I mentioned and flying to Boston to see some prospective new houses. 

I'm now just 18 lbs from my final goal weight. I'm already at my initial goal weight. 

I'm thinner than I was my senior year of high school. 

There are a few food items from home I would love to enjoy as I haven't had them in years. 

I never cheat. Not even a little. 

What say my brothers here? 
I was on diet once that was keto, but you could eat whatever you wanted for one hour a day. The hour was very strict. Did not lose weight on it, but did not gain any.

 
Have your cheat weekend.

You haven't had one in over a year.  Even if you put on a couple pounds, it's not the end of the world.  You'll lose it right back.
This is how most any diet I have ever been on starts to come unraveled.  I understand what you are saying, and it seems innocent enough.  Just a little cheat...reward yourself...  Then it becomes "well, I did it last weekend and I survived OK, I could get away with it again."  Before you know it you've reversed directions.  The point is if you have embraced a keto lifestyle, it is not a "diet".  There is no cheat.  Is it the end of the world to eat something highly processed?  something with a little sugar??  Probably not, but it is contrary to the lifestyle that has been embraced (and successfully so in Bender's case).  

 
I don't think Bender is going to undo all the changes he's made in his life with a few delicacies back home. But I saw Jared Lorenzen on ESPN the other day and was disturbed by my similarity, so I might not be the best guide.

 
I don't think Bender is going to undo all the changes he's made in his life with a few delicacies back home. But I saw Jared Lorenzen on ESPN the other day and was disturbed by my similarity, so I might not be the best guide.
Right. My mantra is do whatever works for YOU. Bender has been strong in his no cheating belief, so I bite my tongue. It is working for HIM. But I am an advocate for cheats. One of the fittest and healthiest people I know diets/lives healthy 5 days a week and enjoys her weekends. She's done it for 25 years. It works. I cheat for quality of life purposes. I'm playing darts in the pool hall with my nephews having a great time and a big plate of nachos and guac is on the table, you bet I'll have some. I'd consider it dorky not to. Cheats can upregulate important metabolic hormones and aid in weight loss. Two things have broken my hard stalls. Straight fasting and carb cycling. :shrug:

 
Right. My mantra is do whatever works for YOU. Bender has been strong in his no cheating belief, so I bite my tongue. It is working for HIM. But I am an advocate for cheats. One of the fittest and healthiest people I know diets/lives healthy 5 days a week and enjoys her weekends. She's done it for 25 years. It works. I cheat for quality of life purposes. I'm playing darts in the pool hall with my nephews having a great time and a big plate of nachos and guac is on the table, you bet I'll have some. I'd consider it dorky not to. Cheats can upregulate important metabolic hormones and aid in weight loss. Two things have broken my hard stalls. Straight fasting and carb cycling. :shrug:
Ultimately this. 

 
I was on diet once that was keto, but you could eat whatever you wanted for one hour a day. The hour was very strict. Did not lose weight on it, but did not gain any.
Maybe it was "The Carbohydrate Addict's Diet"?  I did this about 25 years ago, in my late teens. You could eat anything you wanted, in whatever quantities, for one hour per day. The rest of the day you ate no carbs. I was a fat kid throughout childhood and my teen years, did this when I was 19, and lost 60lbs in 3 months.  Changed my life.  As I've aged and some weight has come back on I've wanted to try it again, but family/lifestyle/work travel have gotten in the way.

 
Ya. I'm gonna stick to Keto while away. I'll save a cheat day for when I do hit my goal weight. 

I'm trying to figure out what the lifestyle looks like for me after these last 20 lbs. I'd imagine just reintroducing very small amounts of fruit. Berries etc. 

Galileo is correct on the lifestyle talk. As I've stated before. I don't even count carbs. 

I have a list of column A foods and a list of column B foods. I eat foods in column A, I don't eat foods in column B. This simplicity has been what's given me the staying power to go as long as I have.  I generally have an idea of my macros but I don't want to tinker with things now. 

 
Last edited by a moderator:
@John Bender : Since I care about you sir, this weekend I will eat tons of carbs in your honor so you don't have too.

That is the sacrifice I am willing to make for you.

This small gesture on my part shall be called

#OtisWednesday.

This weekend everyone on Keto partake in #OtisWednesday for our good buddy JB

 
Ya. I'm gonna stick to Keto while away. I'll save a cheat day for when I do hit my goal weight. 

I'm trying to figure out what the lifestyle looks like for me after these last 20 lbs. I'd imagine just reintroducing very small amounts of fruit. Berries etc. 

Galileo is correct on the lifestyle talk. As I've stated before. I don't even count carbs. 

I have a list of column A foods and a list of column B foods. I eat foods in column A, I don't eat foods in column B. This simplicity has been what's given me the staying power to go as long as I have.  I generally have an idea of my macros but I don't want to tinker with things now. 
Do you still bother peeing on sticks? For some reason, I haven't peed purple in a couple months, but I'm still dropping weight. I know my diet is clean. It's weird.

 
Ya. I'm gonna stick to Keto while away. I'll save a cheat day for when I do hit my goal weight. 

I'm trying to figure out what the lifestyle looks like for me after these last 20 lbs. I'd imagine just reintroducing very small amounts of fruit. Berries etc. 

Galileo is correct on the lifestyle talk. As I've stated before. I don't even count carbs. 

I have a list of column A foods and a list of column B foods. I eat foods in column A, I don't eat foods in column B. This simplicity has been what's given me the staying power to go as long as I have.  I generally have an idea of my macros but I don't want to tinker with things now. 
How about instead of having a cheat and eating a bunch of carbs that you instead pay for premium Keto items so you are still getting a treat but not cheating.  Nice steak house or seafood place?  Maybe an expensive scotch or bourbon?

Honestly if it were me I would cheat but I've actually always thought strict Keto was never how I would eat forever.  The problem I've had is I can never get my introduction of carbs right.

 
How about instead of having a cheat and eating a bunch of carbs that you instead pay for premium Keto items so you are still getting a treat but not cheating.  Nice steak house or seafood place?  Maybe an expensive scotch or bourbon?

Honestly if it were me I would cheat but I've actually always thought strict Keto was never how I would eat forever.  The problem I've had is I can never get my introduction of carbs right.
Go on.

 
I might be on this? Had some unfavorable blood tests so Doc said cut the carbs. Barely had a carb since July 5th. Lost over 20lbs so far. I never looked in to this diet before though. Bender said he doesn't eat fruit? I drink a fruit smoothie 3-4 times a week for breakfast (Acai pack, frozen: strawberries, mangoes, blueberries, and just enough pure apple juice to liquify). Rest of my breakfasts are just a couple eggs. Dinner either grilled chicken with veggies or bone broth soup (going for low sodium) with chicken and veggies. Only carbs I've had is probably 5 meals in these 3 weeks where I had some Quinoa with my chicken and veggies. Just the 2 meals a day for me. 

So am I on Keto or not really? 

 
I might be on this? Had some unfavorable blood tests so Doc said cut the carbs. Barely had a carb since July 5th. Lost over 20lbs so far. I never looked in to this diet before though. Bender said he doesn't eat fruit? I drink a fruit smoothie 3-4 times a week for breakfast (Acai pack, frozen: strawberries, mangoes, blueberries, and just enough pure apple juice to liquify). Rest of my breakfasts are just a couple eggs. Dinner either grilled chicken with veggies or bone broth soup (going for low sodium) with chicken and veggies. Only carbs I've had is probably 5 meals in these 3 weeks where I had some Quinoa with my chicken and veggies. Just the 2 meals a day for me. 

So am I on Keto or not really? 
Well keto is short for ketosis or ketogenic which is a metabolic condition where the liver produces ketones which convert fat to fuel. So you're probably not maintaining a ketogenic state with the smoothies, but you probably are keto adapted, meaning you are doing a bit of both glucose and ketone producing fat burning. It's a healthy enough way to go because of what you've obviously eliminated, so kudos. There's Keto sticks that test your urine for ketones to confirm ketosis (also not foolproof) but what you're doing with some routine carb cycling seems to be working for YOU.

 
Last edited by a moderator:
Well keto is short for ketosis or ketogenic which is a metabolic condition where the liver produces ketones which convert fat to fuel. So you're probably not maintaining a ketogenic state with the smoothies, but you probably are keto adapted, meaning you are doing a bit of both glucose and ketone producing fat burning. It's a healthy enough way to go because of what you've obviously eliminated, so kudos. There's Keto sticks that test your urine for ketones to confirm ketosis (also not foolproof) but what you're doing with some routine carb cycling seems to be working for YOU.
Soooooo.... Liver is a bit of an issue for me at the moment. Is this good or bad for the liver? 

 
Shrinking a beer lovers liver has to be good but I'm no Dr.
Ok. The phrase "liver produces" scared me. I want my liver to rest and heal right now. Need to get them levels down so I can start drinking again. Sounds like you're saying what the liver is dong on Keto is good for it. I'll add it to my research. Thanks. 

 
Chaos Commish said:
Boy meets Keto, Boy loves Keto, Boy loses a lot of weight, Boy gets tired of Keto’s constant nagging and her constantly saying, “you can’t drink beer”, Boy says #### you Keto - I don’t need you, Boy drinks glorious beer and eats pizza and French fries, Boy gets fat again, Boy tries to make up with Keto expressing his never ending love.....

Rinse and repeat.

 
That's exactly what I needed to hear. Thank you. 

I really want what we call in Rhode Island a clam cake. It's like a clam donut or beignet, one of the best things in the world. 
One weekend of cheat and then right back to Keto. It might shock the system and increase the weight loss.

 
Still trying to get some stuff worked out in my mind. Some days I am hungrier than others and eat a fair amount. Other days I am not hungry at all or am too busy to feel like I need to stop to eat. In the last 24 hours, I had a green veggie shake and about 10 macadamias. That's it. I don't even see how I ate 500 calories. And I'm not really feeling hungry. My wife made something for dinner and I'll have some when I get home, but I son't really feel like eating. Is having days where you don't eat pretty much anything just part of what happens? Again, should I make myself eat more for fear of having no energy the next day?

 
My wife found this neat little thing to do with eggs/milk/omelette ingredients. Mix them all together, butter a cupcake tray and pour the contents in. Set the oven to 375 and cook for 20ish min. Perfect to-go omelette muffins. :thumbup:

If it's been mentioned, sorry I'm behind in here. 

 
My wife found this neat little thing to do with eggs/milk/omelette ingredients. Mix them all together, butter a cupcake tray and pour the contents in. Set the oven to 375 and cook for 20ish min. Perfect to-go omelette muffins. :thumbup:

If it's been mentioned, sorry I'm behind in here. 


Sooooo.... a frittata? 

 
My wife found this neat little thing to do with eggs/milk/omelette ingredients. Mix them all together, butter a cupcake tray and pour the contents in. Set the oven to 375 and cook for 20ish min. Perfect to-go omelette muffins. :thumbup:

If it's been mentioned, sorry I'm behind in here. 
I make these often on a Sunday and, if my kid doesn't eat them all, have them available through the week for a quick grab.  I usually throw a couple of jalapeno slices into the bottom of each, sometimes some diced onion.  I then add a meat...breakfast sausage (browned) or ham.  I then put some cheese into each...I mostly use Havarti but have tried several others.  I add some sriracha to the eggs when I beat them. then pour it into the muffin tin.  I don't use any milk.   

 
Still trying to get some stuff worked out in my mind. Some days I am hungrier than others and eat a fair amount. Other days I am not hungry at all or am too busy to feel like I need to stop to eat. In the last 24 hours, I had a green veggie shake and about 10 macadamias. That's it. I don't even see how I ate 500 calories. And I'm not really feeling hungry. My wife made something for dinner and I'll have some when I get home, but I son't really feel like eating. Is having days where you don't eat pretty much anything just part of what happens? Again, should I make myself eat more for fear of having no energy the next day?
I can say I often eat very little and certainly don't crave anything.  You get into this zone at times.  I still eat; sometimes by habit.  I find that once I start eating something, like nuts, I will continue to pick at them even when not "hungry".  How much weight do you want to lose?

 
Still trying to get some stuff worked out in my mind. Some days I am hungrier than others and eat a fair amount. Other days I am not hungry at all or am too busy to feel like I need to stop to eat. In the last 24 hours, I had a green veggie shake and about 10 macadamias. That's it. I don't even see how I ate 500 calories. And I'm not really feeling hungry. My wife made something for dinner and I'll have some when I get home, but I son't really feel like eating. Is having days where you don't eat pretty much anything just part of what happens? Again, should I make myself eat more for fear of having no energy the next day?
What DropKick said above is me exactly. I am there right now and already at a low weight for me. I've eaten olives, walnuts and cheese today. No idea the calorie count, but it was one small bowl of all three. I'm not hungry. There's salad-in-jars made up for several days here and I might have one. Doubtful. I am getting a lot of comments about being so thin. Sort of like the Seinfeld episode where he isn't sure if the person lost weight or got sick. I just started killing myself last week with hiit workouts on a cheap vertical climber. What a great piece of equipment. Sleighs me in ten minutes or less and I am sore everywhere. 

I'm rambling here, but I think what your experiencing is a good thing to take full advantage of. I just buttoned up size 34 board shorts I didn't think could possibly fit, but more importantly I feel amazing this light. I literally said that about 10 times today on a stand up paddle board. Get lean guys. You will never regret it.

 
In before Bender returns with cheat stories about a quart of chowder with a dozen clam cakes and a dough-boy for desert.

 
In before Bender returns with cheat stories about a quart of chowder with a dozen clam cakes and a dough-boy for desert.
Man I really thought about it.

Such a stressful time in life that, while I didn't cheat, I definitely overate.

I still ate Keto friendly foods only, but I ate too much of them for sure...I was out and about a lot and decided, I do all the work at home, I can enjoy the time on the road.

The one exception I couldn't help, I went to a Sushi place and the special was an avocado stuffed/filled with lobster meat. It was amazing, but there was some sort of balsamic glaze over the top.  I ate around it as best I can but I definitely could taste the sweetness when I did manage to get a bite of it in.

All in all, I was super focused and committed. Gained no weight. Flying around the country twice in the next 5 days will test me for sure, but I'm going nowhere.

 
Man I really thought about it.

Such a stressful time in life that, while I didn't cheat, I definitely overate.

I still ate Keto friendly foods only, but I ate too much of them for sure...I was out and about a lot and decided, I do all the work at home, I can enjoy the time on the road.

The one exception I couldn't help, I went to a Sushi place and the special was an avocado stuffed/filled with lobster meat. It was amazing, but there was some sort of balsamic glaze over the top.  I ate around it as best I can but I definitely could taste the sweetness when I did manage to get a bite of it in.

All in all, I was super focused and committed. Gained no weight. Flying around the country twice in the next 5 days will test me for sure, but I'm going nowhere.
Best of luck with the divorce. Mine finalized in early June. I fell off the wagon a bit and it is hard to get back on. From my experience, eating the carbs made me feel more anxious, sleep worse, and just more lethargic.   Continuing your eating pattern is going to be helpful. 

 
Do the guys who have lost a ton of weight ever have trouble realizing they are now thin? In other words, once you are a heffer, do you always feel internally like you are a big fattie like I have been feeling? 

Today I had a breakthrough though... I finally realized I wasnt a big guy anymore when I managed to sit Like this on a flight this morning. 

Haven't seen a lot of updates from the regulars recently. Hang in there. 

 
John I still do not feel thin (Most likely never will). Maybe I am afraid to think otherwise for fear of slipping back to the old ways. I also have felt fat the last 35 years. People say I am  skinny, I say I am slimmer than I was and healthier. Feeling skinny or not I know that most everything I do is easier without 70 pounds holding me down.

I loved my last flight. I was not getting the look of dread as I walked down the Aisle of the plane. Every person hoping I would not sit next to them.

I also went up for seconds at the buffet without the shame of the whole room watching fatty reload his plate.

 
I've experienced something almost opposite. When I was huge I still thought of myself as the guy who played hoops at 200 lbs. My mental self image was someone about 100 pounds lighter that reality, so when I'd see myself in a window or wherever I was sometimes shocked and honestly sometimes didn't recognize myself. So with the weight off I now look much closer to my self image. :shrug:  

 
Do the guys who have lost a ton of weight ever have trouble realizing they are now thin? In other words, once you are a heffer, do you always feel internally like you are a big fattie like I have been feeling? 

Today I had a breakthrough though... I finally realized I wasnt a big guy anymore when I managed to sit Like this on a flight this morning. 

Haven't seen a lot of updates from the regulars recently. Hang in there. 
Not trouble realizing, just cool constant reminders. Like putting on a seat belt on a plane and having a foot of belt to pull through instead of 2". Also, roller coasters.

 
I mentally am still having a hard time with not really eating much if at all. I currently have gone 30+ hours without eating anything and am not hungry. I had an early lunch yesterday and only had things to drink since. Normal? Abnormal? Healthy? Unhealthy?

Not tired per say, but not itching to run out and do anything either.

 
I mentally am still having a hard time with not really eating much if at all. I currently have gone 30+ hours without eating anything and am not hungry. I had an early lunch yesterday and only had things to drink since. Normal? Abnormal? Healthy? Unhealthy?

Not tired per say, but not itching to run out and do anything either.
Same boat. I am disinterested in food to the point we ran out and for the first time in my 19 year old's life she went out and dropped $80 on groceries. Good for her. Yesterday I had a big greek yogurt with nuts, sugar free walnut maple syrup, and peanut butter powder whipped up to the consistency of mousse... around 1 am to put me to sleep. Today I ate sliced avocado and cheese on these tortillas. I cooked chicken and shrimp on the grill last weekend, and haven't had a bite of meat since. As I type this I'm starting to feel a little hunger. haha Power of suggestion?

 
I mentally am still having a hard time with not really eating much if at all. I currently have gone 30+ hours without eating anything and am not hungry. I had an early lunch yesterday and only had things to drink since. Normal? Abnormal? Healthy? Unhealthy?

Not tired per say, but not itching to run out and do anything either.
My initial reaction was "no big deal" as often I'm just not that hungry when doing keto.  However, as this period of "no hunger" continues, my layman's opinion is shifting toward abnormal.   But, I stress "layman" here...

Is it possible that you're in full ketosis and you're body is fueling itself almost entirely from stored fat and subsequently no urge to intake calories?

ETA:  My advice is to eat, even moderately if you wish.  Ensure you're drinking enough water.  Maybe add some broth to get the potassium and raise your level of activity.  A little exercise, even a brisk walk, might raise your desire to eat.

2nd ETA:  Google loss of appetite during ketosis... seems fairly routine

 
Last edited by a moderator:
JB or anyone else who has had success with keto...what were your workouts like? Any exercise with the keto? If so, how did you cater your workouts around the lack of carbs?

 
JB or anyone else who has had success with keto...what were your workouts like? Any exercise with the keto? If so, how did you cater your workouts around the lack of carbs?
Been on Keto 11 months, working out the last 2. I regret not working out from the beginning.

265-195

I do eliptical and weight training at 5AM, live off coffee until lunch time and then eat protein!

Back and Bi Tuesday Friday

Chest and tri Monday  Thursday

Plank Wednesday

Not trying to be buff just trying to not look like a Q-tip with love handles.

I will post pictures on my one year September 4th

 
JB or anyone else who has had success with keto...what were your workouts like? Any exercise with the keto? If so, how did you cater your workouts around the lack of carbs?
I have tried eating some carbs and working out, and, more often, working out having not eaten anything. I absolutely have better workouts if I eat first, but that's because I'm not immediately burning glycogen reserves, I'm working off the carbs that I ate prior. I work out usually 4-5 days per week. I'll usually do 20 minutes of sprints on an incline treadmill, then free weights for 30 minutes or so. As I mentioned a couple pages ago, I am definitely noticing gains in my chest and arms, and my weight is continuing to drop. 

I won't lie- it's not easy. At the end of a workout I'm often dizzy and/or nauseous, but it doesn't last long and it's worth it.

 
Tecumseh said:
I have tried eating some carbs and working out, and, more often, working out having not eaten anything. I absolutely have better workouts if I eat first, but that's because I'm not immediately burning glycogen reserves, I'm working off the carbs that I ate prior. I work out usually 4-5 days per week. I'll usually do 20 minutes of sprints on an incline treadmill, then free weights for 30 minutes or so. As I mentioned a couple pages ago, I am definitely noticing gains in my chest and arms, and my weight is continuing to drop. 

I won't lie- it's not easy. At the end of a workout I'm often dizzy and/or nauseous, but it doesn't last long and it's worth it.
What are you eating for carbs before a workout?  I'm working out a little more lately, and while I've never been very strong, I certainly am not performing very well during my workouts. I'm curious what kinds of carbs you find helpful.  

 
Not anything specifically geared toward the workout.I think a couple of times it was piece of pita bread, or a tortilla for a lunch wrap, something like that. Certainly not binging, just getting something to burn in my stomach a couple hours before hitting the gym

My issue when I don't eat is more stamina than strength. I'm not very strong either, but I have continued to increase what I lift. I assume my max has also increased, but I haven't tried it b/c I don't have a spotter. I just find that I run out of gas faster when I don't eat, which makes sense if I'm relying on glycogen reserves. I don't know if my logic holds up, but I believe the sprinting burns thru a good chunk of my reserves, and the lifting is more reliant on actually burning fat. @culdeus could probably offer some insight on whether that's accurate or not.

 
Not anything specifically geared toward the workout.I think a couple of times it was piece of pita bread, or a tortilla for a lunch wrap, something like that. Certainly not binging, just getting something to burn in my stomach a couple hours before hitting the gym

My issue when I don't eat is more stamina than strength. I'm not very strong either, but I have continued to increase what I lift. I assume my max has also increased, but I haven't tried it b/c I don't have a spotter. I just find that I run out of gas faster when I don't eat, which makes sense if I'm relying on glycogen reserves. I don't know if my logic holds up, but I believe the sprinting burns thru a good chunk of my reserves, and the lifting is more reliant on actually burning fat. @culdeus could probably offer some insight on whether that's accurate or not.
In general, lifting without glycogen reserves is a bad idea.  20 min of sprinting may not put you on the rivet, but it will put you close.  

For low rep type training you will be fine, but when you start trying to do super sets and high rep count burnout stuff you'll simply run out of gas.  

For virtually anyone out there that has any experience lifting whatsoever the consensus is to lift first, cardio after.  After may mean tomorrow.  

 

Users who are viewing this thread

Back
Top