KJ works out......... (1 Viewer)

[David Yudkin]

There is a reason no team is rushing out to pick KJ up for no draft pick compensation.

The main reason no one has signed is that KJ wants more money than teams are offering him. That's pretty much it. I suspect several teams have offered him close to the league minimum and he's said no, countering with a number that he's holding out to get.I also think Jones' name will surface as soon as any team has a back get a sprained ankle, hangnail, or other malody, for the sole purpose that the man needs a job and wants a paycheck. At some point, he'll either find a team that will pay him what he wants (or close to it) or he'll make the rounds again and take the higher end of what a team has offered him.

 

[moderated]

Interesting KJ stats: In games KJ has 15 or more carries: 24 games, 500 carries for 2196 yards, 4.4 YPC.In games KJ has fewer than 15 carries: 29 games, 261 carries for 871 yards, 3.3 YPC.

Is it all that interesting?Doesn't that pattern generally hold true for all RBs?In games where the RB is ineffective, he doesn't get many carries. For KJ, there have been a LOT of those games. The likely causality is probably the converse of what i think you are trying to imply.

Did you watch Detroit play last year?

Yup. I watched TJ Duckett look pretty effective in the same situations KJ was sucking.

All 58 of his carries?

How many do you need?The fact is, Duckett, who is generally regarded as a backup talent at best, performed significantly better than KJ did. So did all the other runners on the roster at the time.I'm not saying Detroit was a great place to run the ball, but it certainly wasn't an IMPOSSIBLE place to run the ball. What I am saying is that the stat breakdown intended to prop up Jones' weak numbers is not particularly useful, because the trend basically applies to all RBs and even if it didn't, there is real "chicken and egg" problem with it as well.It's kind of like when everybody says, "when team X runs the ball more, they win", when the more accurate statement is usually "team X runs the ball more when they are winning".There is a reason no team is rushing out to pick KJ up for no draft pick compensation.

Here are his KJ's stellar rushing numbers over the past 3 seasons.520 carries - 1934 yards - 3.72 averageThat's a pretty significant sample and he's been downright awful over that span.I really can't think of any player who has been average at best getting so much love. And yes, i've watched him plenty of times, i'm not just basing things on stats, he just isn't very good.

 

[moderated]

There is a reason no team is rushing out to pick KJ up for no draft pick compensation.

The main reason no one has signed is that KJ wants more money than teams are offering him. That's pretty much it. I suspect several teams have offered him close to the league minimum and he's said no, countering with a number that he's holding out to get.

That's the whole point, teams in the NFL don't think he's worth much more than the league minimum. He's getting offered what 3rd string RB's get, which is how teams in the NFL value him.For some reason people on this board think he's some amazing talent even though he's never shown that with any consistency. Anyone can look great occasionally, that means nothing, to be considered an above average talent you have to look good-great on a consistent basis.Couple that with him coming off a LisFranc and ACL injury and i'm not even sure "several" teams have offered him the league minimum. at this point i doubt many teams think he's even worth a roster spot.

 

[David Yudkin]

There is a reason no team is rushing out to pick KJ up for no draft pick compensation.

The main reason no one has signed is that KJ wants more money than teams are offering him. That's pretty much it. I suspect several teams have offered him close to the league minimum and he's said no, countering with a number that he's holding out to get.

That's the whole point, teams in the NFL don't think he's worth much more than the league minimum. He's getting offered what 3rd string RB's get, which is how teams in the NFL value him.For some reason people on this board think he's some amazing talent even though he's never shown that with any consistency. Anyone can look great occasionally, that means nothing, to be considered an above average talent you have to look good-great on a consistent basis.Couple that with him coming off a LisFranc and ACL injury and i'm not even sure "several" teams have offered him the league minimum. at this point i doubt many teams think he's even worth a roster spot.

We can debate how effective he's been, but there are definitely teams that are interested. I know for a fact the Patriots want him, and they were one of the ones offering him low dollars BASED ON HIS INJURIES.I suspect that as we get closer to the season and farther away from his surgeries, Jones will get on the field and either show he can do something (and thus get what he wants) or show that he can't (and thus take a one year minimum deal until he can show he can do something).We know of at least three teams that have at least some passing interest: NE, TEN, and DET. His main problem has been that he has not had much chance to show what he can (or cannot) do. He's got his open audition in a few weeks. Therre's still almost three months until the season starts. He should be able to show something by then.

 

[moderated]

There is a reason no team is rushing out to pick KJ up for no draft pick compensation.

The main reason no one has signed is that KJ wants more money than teams are offering him. That's pretty much it. I suspect several teams have offered him close to the league minimum and he's said no, countering with a number that he's holding out to get.

That's the whole point, teams in the NFL don't think he's worth much more than the league minimum. He's getting offered what 3rd string RB's get, which is how teams in the NFL value him.For some reason people on this board think he's some amazing talent even though he's never shown that with any consistency. Anyone can look great occasionally, that means nothing, to be considered an above average talent you have to look good-great on a consistent basis.Couple that with him coming off a LisFranc and ACL injury and i'm not even sure "several" teams have offered him the league minimum. at this point i doubt many teams think he's even worth a roster spot.

We can debate how effective he's been, but there are definitely teams that are interested. I know for a fact the Patriots want him, and they were one of the ones offering him low dollars BASED ON HIS INJURIES.I suspect that as we get closer to the season and farther away from his surgeries, Jones will get on the field and either show he can do something (and thus get what he wants) or show that he can't (and thus take a one year minimum deal until he can show he can do something).We know of at least three teams that have at least some passing interest: NE, TEN, and DET. His main problem has been that he has not had much chance to show what he can (or cannot) do. He's got his open audition in a few weeks. Therre's still almost three months until the season starts. He should be able to show something by then.

There probably are some teams who have offered him the league minimum, which is about what he's worth all things considered (obviously injuries are a major part of that). But listening to the general take on the board people actually think at his current state he's some valuable guy that teams should be clamoring over.If healthy he's an average back that can be a decent backup or part of a RBBC, if not healthy he's isn't even worth a roster spot. I just don't see the kind of value others do with him.He's had 4 years in the NFL where a team gave him a great opportunity, and even when he was healthy he didn't do much with it.And I LOVED him coming out of college, was probably one of his biggest fans. But his strengths in college were quickness and great cuts. In the NFL he had to put on weight and became more of a grinder which doesn't suit his natural abilities. The kicker is that he HAD to gain weight to try to be a full time back, but his body couldn't handle it.

 

[Anthony Borbely]

Kevin Jones played much better last year than one can see by just looking at the stats. The Lions offensive line was terrible last year. That was the problem. And that doesn't even factor in that he rarely was able to practice last year due to his foot being sore. I really don't get some of the criticism. There is more to the story than just repeating his yards per carry numbers. The Lions have not had a good offensive line in a long time and that is why they can't run the ball. This doesn't even factor in a scheme that did not fit the type of linemen they had the last few years. Let me know when you find any lineman on the Lions who is in the top half of the league at his position. There are none. In fact, other than Raiola and Backus, the rest of the linemen rank in the bottom 5-10 at their respective positions. There simply hasn't been any room to run.

The reasons he hasn't signed are because he wants more money than teams are offering. To break it down further, why would a team sign him now when he has not yet proved he is healthy? And from his point, he has no reason at all to sign for the league minimum when he will get close to what he wants during the preseason. RBs get hurt all the time and as soon as one does, you can bet their will be interest. There has already been a lot of interest in KJ and it's just a matter of waiting for the right opportunity to arise.

There is no reason for him to sign now and there is no reason for a team to sign him now.

 

[Holy Schneikes]

There is a reason no team is rushing out to pick KJ up for no draft pick compensation.

The main reason no one has signed is that KJ wants more money than teams are offering him. That's pretty much it. I suspect several teams have offered him close to the league minimum and he's said no, countering with a number that he's holding out to get.I also think Jones' name will surface as soon as any team has a back get a sprained ankle, hangnail, or other malody, for the sole purpose that the man needs a job and wants a paycheck. At some point, he'll either find a team that will pay him what he wants (or close to it) or he'll make the rounds again and take the higher end of what a team has offered him.

Yeah, that's always the bottom line reason for free agents. But I haven't read to many reports indicating that a team would like to have him and has made him an offer, or even any reports that he is "in discussions" or whatever it is they usually say about situations like that.He was flat out released by a team that isn't loaded at RB. If they could have gotten anything for him, they would have.I don't doubt he will get picked up somewhere by some team in a desperate situation. But the basic reason he isn't getting picked up NOW is that teams feel like they don't care if they "miss out" on him. Chicago MIGHT be somewhat interested, but there are quite a few has-beens/never weres on the FA market and KJ is just one in a crowd with very spotty success and a questionable injury status.

 

[moderated]

Kevin Jones played much better last year than one can see by just looking at the stats.

Here is where it's in the eye of the beholder. Unfortunately Detroit games are on a lot in my market, so i watch them a bunch. I really don't think he's a very good RB anymore even ignoring his stats.I also know many in Detroit who thought he looked bad, but like you he also has some supporters.I could watch hours of recent film on him and wouldn't be impressed, he just doesn't have any above average abilities IMO. He would have been much better staying lighter and being a part time RB coming into the league where he could have retained his abilities that were above average.Will some team sign him, of course, but i highly doubt it's for much money and there will be very very little guaranteed. He'll basically get what 6th-7th round rookies get, and that's basically his current value in the NFL. He'll have to fight for a roster spot and will be in danger of being cut.

 

[stevegamer]

He was flat out released by a team that isn't loaded at RB. If they could have gotten anything for him, they would have.

Sorry, you're trying to use logic to explain the Lions. That's flawed.

 

[Holy Schneikes]

Kevin Jones played much better last year than one can see by just looking at the stats. The Lions offensive line was terrible last year. That was the problem. And that doesn't even factor in that he rarely was able to practice last year due to his foot being sore. I really don't get some of the criticism. There is more to the story than just repeating his yards per carry numbers. The Lions have not had a good offensive line in a long time and that is why they can't run the ball. This doesn't even factor in a scheme that did not fit the type of linemen they had the last few years. Let me know when you find any lineman on the Lions who is in the top half of the league at his position. There are none. In fact, other than Raiola and Backus, the rest of the linemen rank in the bottom 5-10 at their respective positions. There simply hasn't been any room to run. The reasons he hasn't signed are because he wants more money than teams are offering. To break it down further, why would a team sign him now when he has not yet proved he is healthy? And from his point, he has no reason at all to sign for the league minimum when he will get close to what he wants during the preseason. RBs get hurt all the time and as soon as one does, you can bet their will be interest. There has already been a lot of interest in KJ and it's just a matter of waiting for the right opportunity to arise. There is no reason for him to sign now and there is no reason for a team to sign him now.

People keep telling me to ignore the stats on Jones. OK, can do. I'll fall back on what I actually SAW last year and the year before and the year before that. I have had a lot of Lions (unfortunately) on my teams and have seen more than a few Lions games over the past couple of years. I DID see a below average line that had trouble opening holes, granted. But I ALSO saw a RB that doesn't break tackles, doesn't elude all that well when he DOES get space, can't get to the outside consistently, and is just in general not a great RB.Let's approach this from a different angle. Jones was scheduled to make a little over $2M this year. Not a ton, all things considered. Why was a he dropped? He's theoretically healthy, so if he's a decent player, why not keep him? The new O coordinator, Colletto, who has seen quite bit of Jones, clearly did not make a pitch to keep him. Why? He seems to have the same opinion I do, that Jones doesn't make people miss, doesn't make big plays, and doesn't run with power. Maybe Colletto is just making Jones his scapegoat for a bad line and/or offense, but the same things I have been thinking to myself for several years are the reasons Colletto gave for letting him go.Jones is a power back with no power or a speed back with no speed. Take your pick.

 

[Anthony Borbely]

Let's approach this from a different angle. Jones was scheduled to make a little over $2M this year. Not a ton, all things considered. Why was a he dropped?

Two words: Matt Millen. Nobody can figure that one out.

 

[moderated]

Let's approach this from a different angle. Jones was scheduled to make a little over $2M this year. Not a ton, all things considered. Why was a he dropped?

Two words: Matt Millen. Nobody can figure that one out.

31 words: the names of the other GM's who don't want him.

 

[gman8343]

Let's approach this from a different angle. Jones was scheduled to make a little over $2M this year. Not a ton, all things considered. Why was a he dropped?

Two words: Matt Millen. Nobody can figure that one out.

31 words: the names of the other GM's who don't want him.

using this logic Kevin Jones will never play for anyone in the NFL again. If no one wants him he's SOL in this league.I think he'll sign somewhere... and if that happens at least one GM will want him.

 

[acme]

Let's approach this from a different angle. Jones was scheduled to make a little over $2M this year. Not a ton, all things considered. Why was a he dropped?

Two words: Matt Millen. Nobody can figure that one out.

Good point Anthony... But there has to be SOME reason that Millen just dropped him. You seem to have a lot of insight into the Lions, why do YOU think? Also, we won't hold you to the guess, but what do you think the % chance is that Kevin Smith begins the season as the #1 RB? If not 100%, then what % chance do you give each Bell, Calhoun, and Pinner of being "The Guy?"Count-Down to Allen Park...

 

[tribecalledjeff]

Let's approach this from a different angle. Jones was scheduled to make a little over $2M this year. Not a ton, all things considered. Why was a he dropped?

Two words: Matt Millen. Nobody can figure that one out.

31 words: the names of the other GM's who don't want him.

That's 62 words.And why would a team sign him now? Make sure he's healthy, see if they actually need him or not (injuries in camp, etc.), and let his price come down a bit.I am a Lions homer, and I think he's a decent NFL RB. I disagree with whoever was saying they are falling back on what they saw.

 

[AKA]

Let's approach this from a different angle. Jones was scheduled to make a little over $2M this year. Not a ton, all things considered. Why was a he dropped?

Two words: Matt Millen. Nobody can figure that one out.

31 words: the names of the other GM's who don't want him.

That's 62 words.And why would a team sign him now? Make sure he's healthy, see if they actually need him or not (injuries in camp, etc.), and let his price come down a bit.I am a Lions homer, and I think he's a decent NFL RB. I disagree with whoever was saying they are falling back on what they saw.

If he is indeed healthy why would his price come down........he is young talented if you add healthy to that a team is going to get a steal

 

[Sigmund Bloom]

Our interview with Adam Caplan includes some nuggets on KJ, including his take on the Pats interest and what kind of condition Jones is in.

 

[brock]

He was flat out released by a team that isn't loaded at RB. If they could have gotten anything for him, they would have.

Sorry, you're trying to use logic to explain the Lions. That's flawed.

 

[MAC_32]

Here are his KJ's stellar rushing numbers over the past 3 seasons.520 carries - 1934 yards - 3.72 averageThat's a pretty significant sample and he's been downright awful over that span.

Detroit's horrific OLine and (my opinion, Martz lovers) questionable offensive scheme did not help those numbers, I believe he'll perform better elsewhere if given the opportunity. My main concern regarding KJ is fumblitis, not so much his health. I still think he ends up in Arizona.

 

[puckalicious]

I think most of the reason for him not getting scooped up is injury history, and making sure he is fully recovered from his knee injury before inking anything.

As for talent he has enough to be a starter in this league... when healthy. When the Lions actually committed to running and gave him 20+ carries I'm quite sure they had a much better record than when he got <20 carries. Sorry no stats here to back that up.

A stat I track is career fantasy points per game which will give some insight to NFL relevance and removes injury from the equation. Looking at all RB's drafted in 1999 and later, he is #22 in fantasy pts per game with 10.7 - better than Mike Anderson, Thomas Jones, Travis Henry, Deshawn Foster, Tatum Bell, Marion Barber, Ryan Grant, Lawrence Maroney, Lendale White, among many others. Alot of these guys had better individual seasons, but not better career pts/game which tells me KJ can be a factor WHEN HEALTHY.

 

[PitbullTD]

Chicago, as a city, seems to have a cloud of insanity settling over it. The bears have hinted that they won't be bringing anyone in to replace Benson. The Bulls, in a period when two of the most highly regarded names in coaching are free agents, are looking at someone who has never coached to coach the Bulls. And the Cubs are winning, and appear to be in good order. Everything has gone wrong.

sig worthy

 

[Anthony Borbely]

Let's approach this from a different angle. Jones was scheduled to make a little over $2M this year. Not a ton, all things considered. Why was a he dropped?

Two words: Matt Millen. Nobody can figure that one out.

Good point Anthony... But there has to be SOME reason that Millen just dropped him. You seem to have a lot of insight into the Lions, why do YOU think? Also, we won't hold you to the guess, but what do you think the % chance is that Kevin Smith begins the season as the #1 RB? If not 100%, then what % chance do you give each Bell, Calhoun, and Pinner of being "The Guy?"Count-Down to Allen Park...

I really don't have a clue why the Lions just cut him. It is definitely not related to talent or production, rather it is likely that they wanted to start fresh with another RB because of his injuries. There is no justifiable reason to cut him with his relatively low salary considering they did not have anything on the roster behind him. I might have understood if his salary was high or if they had anyone on the roster at the time he was cut, but neither was the case. That is why Matt Millen is Matt Millen. I think Kevin Smith is an overwhelming favorite to start. If I had to guess, I'd say a good 80% or higher. Bell might have a small chance, but I don't see it. The others have no chance in my opinion.

 

[AnonymousBob]

Our interview with Adam Caplan includes some nuggets on KJ, including his take on the Pats interest and what kind of condition Jones is in.

For those of us with no audio?

 

[AnonymousBob]

I think most of the reason for him not getting scooped up is injury history, and making sure he is fully recovered from his knee injury before inking anything.

As for talent he has enough to be a starter in this league... when healthy. When the Lions actually committed to running and gave him 20+ carries I'm quite sure they had a much better record than when he got <20 carries. Sorry no stats here to back that up.

A stat I track is career fantasy points per game which will give some insight to NFL relevance and removes injury from the equation. Looking at all RB's drafted in 1999 and later, he is #22 in fantasy pts per game with 10.7 - better than Mike Anderson, Thomas Jones, Travis Henry, Deshawn Foster, Tatum Bell, Marion Barber, Ryan Grant, Lawrence Maroney, Lendale White, among many others. Alot of these guys had better individual seasons, but not better career pts/game which tells me KJ can be a factor WHEN HEALTHY.

First off, you have no stats to back up your first claim but you're "quite sure" the team does better when he receives 20+ carries? Ugh. Just ugh.Next thing - who cares how effective he's been fantasy wise? If he's no good in real life fantasy world is meaningless. No team will give him a shot if he's that lousy. Aikman was never a great qb option...does this in any way, shape or form mean he wasn't a good qb?

 

[puckalicious]

I think most of the reason for him not getting scooped up is injury history, and making sure he is fully recovered from his knee injury before inking anything.

As for talent he has enough to be a starter in this league... when healthy. When the Lions actually committed to running and gave him 20+ carries I'm quite sure they had a much better record than when he got <20 carries. Sorry no stats here to back that up.

A stat I track is career fantasy points per game which will give some insight to NFL relevance and removes injury from the equation. Looking at all RB's drafted in 1999 and later, he is #22 in fantasy pts per game with 10.7 - better than Mike Anderson, Thomas Jones, Travis Henry, Deshawn Foster, Tatum Bell, Marion Barber, Ryan Grant, Lawrence Maroney, Lendale White, among many others. Alot of these guys had better individual seasons, but not better career pts/game which tells me KJ can be a factor WHEN HEALTHY.

First off, you have no stats to back up your first claim but you're "quite sure" the team does better when he receives 20+ carries? Ugh. Just ugh.Next thing - who cares how effective he's been fantasy wise? If he's no good in real life fantasy world is meaningless. No team will give him a shot if he's that lousy. Aikman was never a great qb option...does this in any way, shape or form mean he wasn't a good qb?

To your first point, yes that was pretty dumb sounding wasn't it. Sorry for not having any data there. I just recall hearing that on local radio here in metro detroit last season when everyone was railing against Martz. Now that I think about it, thats a pretty useless nugget regarding a players talent. You can argue that it doesn't matter how talented a RB is, if the team is down by 2 or more scores in the 2nd half they are going to air it out instead of pounding the rock.On your second point - I'm pretty sure everyone reading this forum plays fantasy football, so I think that makes his fantasy stats important. Now does his fantasy production have any bearing on NFL production, well yes it's pretty much directly correlated since fantasy points are awarded for on the field production. So yes, I agree with you that if a NFL player is lousy, then they would make a lousy fantasy player. Based on KJ's career fantasy stats though, he is not a lousy player or fantasy option. Averaging over 10 pts/game means that he averages between 100 yds/game and 40yds +1TD per game. Both of which are of significant value to any fantasy or NFL team. Just remember I'm talking about production, not talent.

You then appear to make a strawman argument by saying if a player is not a "great" fantasy option that it doesn't correlate to their NFL performance - a point I absolutely did not make.

 

[Cowtippers]

FYI

today from rotoworld......

Free agent Kevin Jones made cuts on his surgically reconstructed knee Thursday and ran a short shuttle in 4.3 seconds.

For perspective, the best 20-yard shuttles at this February's Combine were posted by Rashard Mendenhall (4.18) and Felix Jones (4.19). Marshawn Lynch performed the drill in 4.58 seconds in 2007, so Jones' short-area quickness doesn't look bad at all. Jones will hold a final workout on June 28.

Source: Associated Press

 

[Englishteacher]

I think most of the reason for him not getting scooped up is injury history, and making sure he is fully recovered from his knee injury before inking anything.

As for talent he has enough to be a starter in this league... when healthy. When the Lions actually committed to running and gave him 20+ carries I'm quite sure they had a much better record than when he got <20 carries. Sorry no stats here to back that up.

A stat I track is career fantasy points per game which will give some insight to NFL relevance and removes injury from the equation. Looking at all RB's drafted in 1999 and later,he is #22 in fantasy pts per game with 10.7 - better than Mike Anderson, Thomas Jones, Travis Henry, Deshawn Foster, Tatum Bell, Marion Barber, Ryan Grant, Lawrence Maroney, Lendale White, among many others. Alot of these guys had better individual seasons, but not better career pts/game which tells me KJ can be a factor WHEN HEALTHY.

That's a pretty interesting stat. That he could eek out that much production playing for a low producing fantsy franchise like the Lions is pretty impressive. His yearly stats are not all that impressive but then he's rarely played a full season. Or maybe he's never played a full season, I'd have to check. IMagine what kind of fantasy stats he could have produced playing in, say, Denver.As a dynasty KJ owner I'd love to see it. You'd have to think he's more talented than Selvin Young. So much of fantasy is about opportunity. I'm wondering how many of these guys bashing KJ now would turn around and draft him pretty high if he were a Bronco soon. That might pique a little interest. All a running back really has to do is start and be in the right system to be a fantasy force. We can sit and talk all we want about who's actually better talent wise but with what we play, it doesn't always come down to that. Heck, there have been times when Dominic Rhodes was one of the hottest backs in the league to have and he just got cut by the Oakland Raiders!

 

[David Yudkin]

New England, Chicago, Green Bay, Tennessee, Tampa Bay, Denver, Kansas City, Philadelphia, Buffalo and the New York Jets are among the teams who have shown interest in Jones.

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