What's new
Fantasy Football - Footballguys Forums

This is a sample guest message. Register a free account today to become a member! Once signed in, you'll be able to participate on this site by adding your own topics and posts, as well as connect with other members through your own private inbox!

Knowshon Moreno: Has the hate gone too far? (1 Viewer)

orangecrush15

Footballguy
Take a look at this recent article by the Denver Post that details Moreno's transformation this offseason.

http://www.denverpost.com/broncos/ci_18534215

For a guy that was drafted 12th overall 2 years ago there's no question that Moreno's career thus far has been a disappointment. However, people need to remember that Moreno missed significant training camp time in 2009, and all but the first few days of camp in 2010. For a young back, absences like that definitely affect comfort level within an offense. He was then hampered by a lingering hamstring strain that caused him to miss 3 games in 2010, and affected his performance in several other games.

Also working against Moreno was the system he was playing in. Moreno's strength as a running back is ability to quickly locate holes and anticipate cutback lanes. In addition to excellent vision, Moreno is a very elusive runner that has good agility in-and-out of his cuts. That type of back is best suited for a zone-blocking, one-cut-and-go, type of system. McDaniels had the Broncos running a power scheme, and a ton on Moreno's carries came out of shotgun sets. The way McDaniels used Moreno really did not properly utilize his skill set. With John Fox coming in and bringing over offensive line coach Dave Magazu, the Broncos will transition to a more traditional system that uses zone plays much more often, and is much better suited to Moreno's style of play.

It should also be noted that the Broncos offensive line has also not done Moreno any favors the past two years, especially last year Moreno ran behind two rookie starters in JD Walton and Zane Beadles. Beadles and Walton played well for rookies,and have bright futures ahead of them, but there's no doubt their inexperience affected the success (or lack thereof) of the Broncos ground game.

As a diehard Bronco fan I've seen every Knowshon Moreno carry over the past two years. While he really was awful his first season, I saw a lot of improvements last year, and think he's only going to be better in the new system. Despite his struggles as ball-carrier, he's always been terrific as a receiver out of the backfield, and has really looks like that 1st round talent the Broncos thought they were getting when he's able to get the ball out in open space.

Now that he's slimmed down, I would suspect he'll be a little bit faster and more explosive, which is the one thing that's always been lacking from his game. Even if the Broncos do sign DeAngelo Williams, John Fox has shown in the past that there's definitely enough carries to go around for two guys, and Moreno might actually benefit from not having to be relied upon as an every down back.

Look, Moreno is not an elite back, and never will be. He'll never live up to the hype of that 12th overall pick. But to me the hate has really gone too far on Knowshon. For example, Cecil recently said this week on the Free Agency RB preview that Moreno just does not have what it takes to play at this level. That's just crazy to me. I know it's easy to pile on a guy like Knowshon, but watch some of those highlights above and tell me that Moreno can't at the very least be a great back in a tandem backfield. Knowshon's heard all the criticism this off season, and has been working very hard to prove doubters wrong. As long as he can stay healthy this year, I think he'll really surprise some people. Moreno has been plummeting down draft boards, and when the Broncos add a RB or two in free agency he's only going to fall further. Check him out this preseason, and I think you'll see a back with a chip on his shoulder. A faster, fresher, stronger Knowshon, in an offense that's much more suited to his strengths. That's the type of RB I want on my team, and considering how low his ADP has fallen, I think he's well worth a shot.

 
I see Denver signing a lower profile runningback to pair with Moreno. A full on RBBC with Moreno getting 60% of the looks with someone like Snelling coming in for the rest. Yes the Moreno hate has gotten out of hand in my opinion.

 
I think it has gone too far and I'm not convinced Denver brings in a premier back.

That said, that youtube video that are his "highlights" make him look like he's running through mud. No burst, no open field moves......he's just not very good.

 
That one college highlight where he hurdled over a defender seemed to cause people to fall in love with him. He never seemed speedy or shifty at Georgia. He seems best suited as a backup in the pros, where he would be one of the better backups.

 
That said, that youtube video that are his "highlights" make him look like he's running through mud. No burst, no open field moves......he's just not very good.
My sentiments exactly. His highlights are horrific compared to most starting running backs in the NFL.
 
if he had been a 4th round pick two years ago people would be touting him as a possible breakout candidate. he improved from 3.8 to 4.3 ypc and had 10 yds per reception last year, both good numbers, and has a good td rate. Lammey is leading that charge and it feels biased IMO. if you were trying to build a winning team, had several needs, and didn't have a huge budget, would you blow a lot of cash on a RB? especially when you have a guy who's getting better and so many decent options available in free agency or for trade? i think the moreno hate is at ridiculous levels and am looking to buy anywhere his stock is low.

 
if he had been a 4th round pick two years ago people would be touting him as a possible breakout candidate. he improved from 3.8 to 4.3 ypc and had 10 yds per reception last year, both good numbers, and has a good td rate. Lammey is leading that charge and it feels biased IMO. if you were trying to build a winning team, had several needs, and didn't have a huge budget, would you blow a lot of cash on a RB? especially when you have a guy who's getting better and so many decent options available in free agency or for trade? i think the moreno hate is at ridiculous levels and am looking to buy anywhere his stock is low.
:goodposting: His expectations were too high because he got over-drafted, but he was still thought of as a late 1st/early 2nd round pick by pretty much every draft guru.He hasn't been great but he was pretty solid until he got hurt last season.The only FA rbi's who can really demote him to a backup role are deangelo and Bradshaw, and I don't think either are ending up in denver.
 
if he had been a 4th round pick two years ago people would be touting him as a possible breakout candidate. he improved from 3.8 to 4.3 ypc and had 10 yds per reception last year, both good numbers, and has a good td rate. Lammey is leading that charge and it feels biased IMO. if you were trying to build a winning team, had several needs, and didn't have a huge budget, would you blow a lot of cash on a RB? especially when you have a guy who's getting better and so many decent options available in free agency or for trade? i think the moreno hate is at ridiculous levels and am looking to buy anywhere his stock is low.
:goodposting: His expectations were too high because he got over-drafted, but he was still thought of as a late 1st/early 2nd round pick by pretty much every draft guru.He hasn't been great but he was pretty solid until he got hurt last season.The only FA rbi's who can really demote him to a backup role are deangelo and Bradshaw, and I don't think either are ending up in denver.
Addai could give him a run for his money I think. He's an average starter in this league when healthy in my opinion.
 
I dont like him as a back, but the hate has gone to far. Lammey has said he would take Tyrell Sutton, Jalen Parmele, and Jason Snelling over him as football players.

 
Too often it feels like people have to make an extreme stand...either a guy is awful or great...right now the jury is still somewhat out with Moreno but the early returns have not been overly promising...I don't think the Broncos should give up on him but they would be foolish not to have a very solid plan B in place because it still feels like he's an unknown quantity even with two years under his belt...

 
I think it has gone too far and I'm not convinced Denver brings in a premier back.That said, that youtube video that are his "highlights" make him look like he's running through mud. No burst, no open field moves......he's just not very good.
Is this a joke?It is one thing if at times he may have looked poor as a running back in the NFL, but no way do I watch that video and think that it looks as though he is running through mud. I might say that he sometimes needs to not second guess a move and just run, but part of that might be a confidence thing. He is severly underrated due to where he was drafted and the expectations of what comes with selecting a RB that high. I don't think it would surprise many if he had a very strong season if he is able to stay healthy. He actually remimds me a lot of Darren McFadden. The McFadden hate was off the charts after his first 2 years of under performing (much lower production than Moreno's first 2 years) and sometimes running backs just need to gain that confidence and bill of health to prove how good they actually can be. I would venture to guess that Moreno is closer to being a very good running back versus a below average running back at the NFL level.
 
I was trying to deal him because he's like my RB7, but I couldn't get enough value. it's amazing how low his actual value is since most people assume Deangelo is headed to Denver...He's a great buy low if you can, but time is running out. I don't even think I got 2nd round future pick value type of offers- it's almost if he's not worth as much as Bilal Powell, Demarco Murray, etc.. and some of those type of guys that haven't even stepped on the field

 
Last edited by a moderator:
I think it has gone too far and I'm not convinced Denver brings in a premier back.That said, that youtube video that are his "highlights" make him look like he's running through mud. No burst, no open field moves......he's just not very good.
Is this a joke?It is one thing if at times he may have looked poor as a running back in the NFL, but no way do I watch that video and think that it looks as though he is running through mud. I might say that he sometimes needs to not second guess a move and just run, but part of that might be a confidence thing. He is severly underrated due to where he was drafted and the expectations of what comes with selecting a RB that high. I don't think it would surprise many if he had a very strong season if he is able to stay healthy. He actually remimds me a lot of Darren McFadden. The McFadden hate was off the charts after his first 2 years of under performing (much lower production than Moreno's first 2 years) and sometimes running backs just need to gain that confidence and bill of health to prove how good they actually can be. I would venture to guess that Moreno is closer to being a very good running back versus a below average running back at the NFL level.
Not a joke at all. There is nothing that stood out in that video. Nothing. A highlight reel of Fred Jackson is more impressive than that. He looks NOTHING like McFadden (and never has). Watch highlights of DMC or Charles or Peterson or McCoy (or any other talented RBs) and they jump off the screen. Moreno's best stuff (highlight video) is a collection of "meh" runs that I wouldn't look twice at. He has no speed, no burst, no explosion. That's fine if you're a power RB. He's not, though.
 
I think Moreno is very underrated. If D Will goes to Denver which I doubt, I think Moreno will beat out D Will for about 70% of the carries

 
I was trying to deal him because he's like my RB7, but I couldn't get enough value. it's amazing how low his actual value is since most people assume Deangelo is headed to Denver...He's a great buy low if you can, but time is running out. I don't even think I got 2nd round future pick value type of offers- it's almost if he's not worth as much as Bilal Powell, Demarco Murray, etc.. and some of those type of guys that haven't even stepped on the field
I traded the 1.06 (Ryan Williams) and the 3.06 rookie pick for Knowshon Moreno and the 2.06 rookie pick. In retrospect, I probably should have given up a little less (i.e no 3.06 rookie pick)
 
I think Moreno is very underrated. If D Will goes to Denver which I doubt, I think Moreno will beat out D Will for about 70% of the carries
I would be stunned if Moreno beat out Williams. Stunned.
He had to be joking. I said this about Moreno in March of 2009 - "What worries me most about Moreno is he's too thin at the hips. I doubt his ability to break tackles at the next level, even if he does have a good stiff arm. He is agressive however, and probably too aggressive for his size. He's doesn't let his blocks set up either. As far as Wells goes, I say it again, he can't catch the ball and he can't block, so he's destined to be a two down back. Throw in what appears to be lack of durability and overall attitude toward football in general, that's too many quesiton marks for me, so I'll take Jones over him in an New York second." http://forums.footballguys.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=458999

 
for what it's worth he's working harder then ever to be in top shape this offseason.

Moreno's workout
after reading this article i really do think his biggest problem is health. in my .5 PPR league he was 6th in PPG at RB going into week 15, when he got injured. he was barely used the rest of the way making his season-ending numbers look average.

yeah, 6th! after week 14 he was ahead of chris johnson, frank gore, MJD, bradshaw, turner, charles, mendenhall, ray rice, forte, s jackson, etc. in PPG (with 7 games of 18 or more points). interestingly, a couple of the guys ahead of him, mcfadden and mccoy, were guys everyone around here was crushing this time last year also. that just doesnt sound like a bust to me. actually, it sounds like a guy who helped teams get into the playoffs and then burned them once they got there.

 
He hasn't look great this is true. Is he severely undervalued? Absolutely.

I agree with the McFadden comparision for sure. I started a 14 team expert dynasty auction league last year. There was a $200 cap and I got McFadden for $6, due to the fact that his value was that low. I was desperate for a RB and took a shot. Yes the bidding stopped at $6. Crickets.

Players can improve. Shady McCoy looked absolutely atrocious his rookie year. Fast forward, runnning QB at the helm, he is a top 8 dynasty RB. I can see this happening for Moreno this year, with Tebow taking some of the D's attention and even if Deangelo is added, he will do well in Fox's system.

 
More positive Moreno news coming out today:

From National Football Post

*The Broncos believe new coach John Fox could be the key to kick-starting Knowshon Moreno’s career. Fox has a good way of dealing with players, and the hope is he will be able to reach Moreno and challenge him. Moreno’s lack of maturity has been a factor in his underachieving up to this point. The Broncos recognize he has talent (maybe not 12th pick in the draft talent, but he has talent) and value, and aren’t giving up on him yet.
Exactly what I've been saying. Will he ever be the elite RB that owners thought they were getting when they drafted him two years ago? No. But will he still have value? Absolutely. Cecil is going to wind up eating crow here. I really don't understand his hatred of Moreno. For him to say he "doesn't have what it takes to play at this level" is seriously absurd.
 
'gianmarco said:
That said, that youtube video that are his "highlights" make him look like he's running through mud. No burst, no open field moves......he's just not very good.
:goodposting: I've been totally underwhelmed with Moreno since he arrived in the NFL. Even when healthy, he looks sluggish compared to the LB's in the NFL.
 
'sihaokills said:
I think Moreno is very underrated. If D Will goes to Denver which I doubt, I think Moreno will beat out D Will for about 70% of the carries
This is crazy talk. DeAngelo Williams is a proven, highly productive NFL back. Moreno is a never-has-been.
 
An opinion on this won't matter if the Broncos don't give him the chance to show he's better and can handle a team riding on his back. I don't think they will anymore. There seems to be a common FA signing sentiment here too which also supports this.

I think sometimes in FF we create opportunity in our heads that just isn't there. I don't see Moreno getting enough opportunity to go with that bulk of FF RBs that get drafted in the first three rounds.

 
'Mr Rodgers neighborhood said:
I see Denver signing a lower profile runningback to pair with Moreno. A full on RBBC with Moreno getting 60% of the looks with someone like Snelling coming in for the rest. Yes the Moreno hate has gotten out of hand in my opinion.
I think that if the Broncos signed Snelling, he would be the one getting 60% of the carries.
 
'Mr Rodgers neighborhood said:
I see Denver signing a lower profile runningback to pair with Moreno. A full on RBBC with Moreno getting 60% of the looks with someone like Snelling coming in for the rest. Yes the Moreno hate has gotten out of hand in my opinion.
I think that if the Broncos signed Snelling, he would be the one getting 60% of the carries.
Disagree. I think the only back that takes away the majority of carries from Moreno would be DeAngelo Williams. Williams would be the number one guy and Moreno would probably get around 40% of the carries. If they bring in any other back I think it becomes a pretty equal timeshare, with Moreno getting the slight majority of the carries.
 
Maybe he will follow the path of another high first round pick, Thomas Jones. (similar career start thus far)
do you mean he will start looking good once he gets the best o-line in the league?
No.Jones had 3 years in Arizona that were not good, then he left and started putting up better numbers and became a rb1 in another city (Chicago).
 
Last edited by a moderator:
rumor is Snelling to St Louis maybe (per MFL) ........ not an immediate starter for Snelling but in 1-2 years? I'd like to see that in St Louis ....

 
rumor is Snelling to St Louis maybe (per MFL) ........ not an immediate starter for Snelling but in 1-2 years? I'd like to see that in St Louis ....
Snelling will be 29 in 2 years, I don't see him as any lone term solution at that point. It's now or never for him. I do think he has some talent, and could be a decent part of a RBBC in the right situation (Denver maybe), but if he goes somewhere where he's obviously the backup for a couple of years I'd stick a fork in him as a future starter.
 
Saw a lot of broken tackles and at the goal line, seems he knows to put his head down and get in there. Didn't see the "WOW" runs though. He seemed adequate. Not much in acceleration or top end speed from the video. I was looking for him to turn on the gas and blow someone away and never saw it. I guess he kind of reminds me of Addai. Solid but not spectacular. Maybe if he can turn it on and get his receptions up into the 60's range, he might crack into the top 15 or so. He was RB19 in our .5ppr for comparison.

 
'Hoss_Cartwright said:
'finito said:
'sihaokills said:
I think Moreno is very underrated. If D Will goes to Denver which I doubt, I think Moreno will beat out D Will for about 70% of the carries
I would be stunned if Moreno beat out Williams. Stunned.
He had to be joking. I said this about Moreno in March of 2009 - "What worries me most about Moreno is he's too thin at the hips. I doubt his ability to break tackles at the next level, even if he does have a good stiff arm. He is agressive however, and probably too aggressive for his size. He's doesn't let his blocks set up either. As far as Wells goes, I say it again, he can't catch the ball and he can't block, so he's destined to be a two down back. Throw in what appears to be lack of durability and overall attitude toward football in general, that's too many quesiton marks for me, so I'll take Jones over him in an New York second." http://forums.footballguys.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=458999
Say what you like, but I think you would have been better served with Moreno the past 2 years than with Felix Jones. So your prediction was not so great there that I would go pointing it out. Especially since you also continue with the point that Felix Jones is also better than McCoy...how did that one work out for you? :) Just saying, you may not want to point out your predictive abilities on a quote that was incorrect in every single way 2 later... :football:

 
'sihaokills said:
I think Moreno is very underrated. If D Will goes to Denver which I doubt, I think Moreno will beat out D Will for about 70% of the carries
This is crazy talk. DeAngelo Williams is a proven, highly productive NFL back. Moreno is a never-has-been.
Statistically speaking for Williams-2006 as a rookie had a very unproductive year missing 3 games-2007 an ok year but not even combining for 1000 total yards playing in all 16 games-2008 elite year playing in all 16 games-2009 above average year but missed 3 games -2010 unproductive year missing 10 gamesSo Williams at 28 years of age turning 29 this year, has missed 16 of 80 games, has only had more than 216 rushing attempts once in his career, has had 1 elite year, but many give him far too much credit for having an all around average NFL career thus far. Now if Williams was to go to Denver I would not say that Moreno would recieve 70 percent of the carries, but I don't think it is a stretch to think Moreno could be every bit as good as Williams in a time share role and even edging him out for a bigger piece of the pie.
 
'Hoss_Cartwright said:
'finito said:
'sihaokills said:
I think Moreno is very underrated. If D Will goes to Denver which I doubt, I think Moreno will beat out D Will for about 70% of the carries
I would be stunned if Moreno beat out Williams. Stunned.
He had to be joking. I said this about Moreno in March of 2009 - "What worries me most about Moreno is he's too thin at the hips. I doubt his ability to break tackles at the next level, even if he does have a good stiff arm. He is agressive however, and probably too aggressive for his size. He's doesn't let his blocks set up either. As far as Wells goes, I say it again, he can't catch the ball and he can't block, so he's destined to be a two down back. Throw in what appears to be lack of durability and overall attitude toward football in general, that's too many quesiton marks for me, so I'll take Jones over him in an New York second." http://forums.footballguys.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=458999
Say what you like, but I think you would have been better served with Moreno the past 2 years than with Felix Jones. So your prediction was not so great there that I would go pointing it out. Especially since you also continue with the point that Felix Jones is also better than McCoy...how did that one work out for you? :) Just saying, you may not want to point out your predictive abilities on a quote that was incorrect in every single way 2 later... :football:
I'm not afraid to point out when I'm wrong or when I'm right. I can take it from both sides of the spectrum. I don't think I'm wrong about Moreno, but am I 100% certain? Of course not.

 
Last edited by a moderator:
'sihaokills said:
I think Moreno is very underrated. If D Will goes to Denver which I doubt, I think Moreno will beat out D Will for about 70% of the carries
This is crazy talk. DeAngelo Williams is a proven, highly productive NFL back. Moreno is a never-has-been.
Statistically speaking for Williams-2006 as a rookie had a very unproductive year missing 3 games-2007 an ok year but not even combining for 1000 total yards playing in all 16 games-2008 elite year playing in all 16 games-2009 above average year but missed 3 games -2010 unproductive year missing 10 gamesSo Williams at 28 years of age turning 29 this year, has missed 16 of 80 games, has only had more than 216 rushing attempts once in his career, has had 1 elite year, but many give him far too much credit for having an all around average NFL career thus far. Now if Williams was to go to Denver I would not say that Moreno would recieve 70 percent of the carries, but I don't think it is a stretch to think Moreno could be every bit as good as Williams in a time share role and even edging him out for a bigger piece of the pie.
Here's the difference. If you ignore the statistics, and just watch them play, you know Williams is better. He's a threat to take it to the house on every play. Moreno is lucky to break off a 20 yarder. Williams could fall twice in the backfield and break off a 20 yarder. That's the difference.
 
'sihaokills said:
I think Moreno is very underrated. If D Will goes to Denver which I doubt, I think Moreno will beat out D Will for about 70% of the carries
This is crazy talk. DeAngelo Williams is a proven, highly productive NFL back. Moreno is a never-has-been.
Statistically speaking for Williams-2006 as a rookie had a very unproductive year missing 3 games-2007 an ok year but not even combining for 1000 total yards playing in all 16 games-2008 elite year playing in all 16 games-2009 above average year but missed 3 games -2010 unproductive year missing 10 gamesSo Williams at 28 years of age turning 29 this year, has missed 16 of 80 games, has only had more than 216 rushing attempts once in his career, has had 1 elite year, but many give him far too much credit for having an all around average NFL career thus far. Now if Williams was to go to Denver I would not say that Moreno would recieve 70 percent of the carries, but I don't think it is a stretch to think Moreno could be every bit as good as Williams in a time share role and even edging him out for a bigger piece of the pie.
Here's the difference. If you ignore the statistics, and just watch them play, you know Williams is better. He's a threat to take it to the house on every play. Moreno is lucky to break off a 20 yarder. Williams could fall twice in the backfield and break off a 20 yarder. That's the difference.
Is it? If you watch Felix Jones and Michael Turner play, Jones is a threat to take it to the house on every play and Turner isn't. Are you saying Felix has been better than Turner?
 
Here's the difference. If you ignore the statistics, and just watch them play, you know Williams is better. He's a threat to take it to the house on every play. Moreno is lucky to break off a 20 yarder. Williams could fall twice in the backfield and break off a 20 yarder. That's the difference.
:goodposting: There's no way of comparing a 'never has been' in Moreno to a guy who actually was elite for awhile. Williams has enough dazzling plays in his bag of highlights to make Moreno look like a 3rd string back. I thought I had seen enough of Moreno, but that youtube video posted earlier in this thread only confirmed my beliefs. Any 3rd string RB can make the moves that Moreno made on the good plays to make those gains on the highlight reels. He seems to be surprised to make it past the LOS and is making one cut with anticipation of going down soon. That collection of highlights doesn't include all the runs into the backs of his tackles and going down in a heap for minimal gains. Doesn't include the holes the line made, and there was no explosion to the hole. The fact is, any number of backs on any of the other NFL teams could have done more with the blocking Moreno was provided. Till proven otherwise, Moreno should be mentioned not with other teams starting RB's, but with other teams backups. That's his real talent barometer. To answer the OP's question, no. No, I don't think the hate has gone too far. Moreno Sux.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
the fact that it is pretty much a given that they are bringing someone in because they "need to address the running game" is really about all you need to know.....

I'll be using that 4th round pick elsewhere and if I miss out on a "breakout" season by Moreno...so be it...just don't see a breakout coming

 
Here's the difference. If you ignore the statistics, and just watch them play, you know Williams is better. He's a threat to take it to the house on every play. Moreno is lucky to break off a 20 yarder. Williams could fall twice in the backfield and break off a 20 yarder. That's the difference.
:goodposting: There's no way of comparing a 'never has been' in Moreno to a guy who actually was elite for awhile. Williams has enough dazzling plays in his bag of highlights to make Moreno look like a 3rd string back. I thought I had seen enough of Moreno, but that youtube video posted earlier in this thread only confirmed my beliefs. Any 3rd string RB can make the moves that Moreno made on the good plays to make those gains on the highlight reels. He seems to be surprised to make it past the LOS and is making one cut with anticipation of going down soon. That collection of highlights doesn't include all the runs into the backs of his tackles and going down in a heap for minimal gains. Doesn't include the holes the line made, and there was no explosion to the hole. The fact is, any number of backs on any of the other NFL teams could have done more with the blocking Moreno was provided. Till proven otherwise, Moreno should be mentioned not with other teams starting RB's, but with other teams backups. That's his real talent barometer.

To answer the OP's question, no. No, I don't think the hate has gone too far. Moreno Sux.
Here is a list of running backs that Moreno's YPC either matched or was better then from last year.Moreno 4.3

Chris Johnson 4.3

Michael Turner 4.1

Rashard Mendenhal 3.9

Steven Jackson 3.8

Ray Rice 4.0

Cedric Benson 3.5

Frank Gore 4.2

Felix Jones 4.3

Fred Jackson 4.2

Johnathan Steward 4.3

Shonn Green 4.1

Deangello Williams 4.1

Are all these guys running through mud too? There is obviously more, but I thought this was a good list to start with.

 
Last edited by a moderator:
I am not a Moreno believer, but I have enough humility and perspective to realize that he probably does not suck and that hamstring injuries are very limiting for RBs.

DeAngelo Williams and Ahmad Bradshaw are the only FAs that can displace Moreno. If one of them is not signed by Denver, I look forward to seeing what a HEALTHY Moreno can do. This is certainly his make or break year... If he gets injured again, he will have the fragile tag. If he is healthy and underperforms, he will have the bust tag.

There are too many speaking in absolutes here. Moreno's numbers were good, and the fact that he did it without any long runs shows that he may be more than the backup many seem to be relegating him to be.

Maybe he is only backup quality, but we need to see him healthy to know for sure. Don't draft him as more than a RB3 and you will be fine.

 
'sihaokills said:
I think Moreno is very underrated. If D Will goes to Denver which I doubt, I think Moreno will beat out D Will for about 70% of the carries
This is crazy talk. DeAngelo Williams is a proven, highly productive NFL back. Moreno is a never-has-been.
Statistically speaking for Williams-2006 as a rookie had a very unproductive year missing 3 games-2007 an ok year but not even combining for 1000 total yards playing in all 16 games-2008 elite year playing in all 16 games-2009 above average year but missed 3 games -2010 unproductive year missing 10 gamesSo Williams at 28 years of age turning 29 this year, has missed 16 of 80 games, has only had more than 216 rushing attempts once in his career, has had 1 elite year, but many give him far too much credit for having an all around average NFL career thus far. Now if Williams was to go to Denver I would not say that Moreno would recieve 70 percent of the carries, but I don't think it is a stretch to think Moreno could be every bit as good as Williams in a time share role and even edging him out for a bigger piece of the pie.
Here's the difference. If you ignore the statistics, and just watch them play, you know Williams is better. He's a threat to take it to the house on every play. Moreno is lucky to break off a 20 yarder. Williams could fall twice in the backfield and break off a 20 yarder. That's the difference.
Also, let's not forget that Williams has been platooned with Jonathan Stewart in Carolina for years (something that the raw stats conveniently leave out of the picture). The fact of the matter is that Carolina has had two starting caliber RBs for several years now. Secondly, Moreno is no Jonathan Stewart. If Williams lands in Denver, Williams will be the MAN and Moreno relegated to change-of-pace duty and subbing in when Williams needs some breaths on the sidelines or when the Broncos are blowing somebody out and there is no longer a need for Williams in the game. Free agency will make us all much more informed regarding Moreno's chances, but there is no doubt in my mind that Williams is far superior to Moreno as a starting RB at the NFL level.
 
I am not a Moreno believer, but I have enough humility and perspective to realize that he probably does not suck and that hamstring injuries are very limiting for RBs.

DeAngelo Williams and Ahmad Bradshaw are the only FAs that can displace Moreno. If one of them is not signed by Denver, I look forward to seeing what a HEALTHY Moreno can do. This is certainly his make or break year... If he gets injured again, he will have the fragile tag. If he is healthy and underperforms, he will have the bust tag.

There are too many speaking in absolutes here. Moreno's numbers were good, and the fact that he did it without any long runs shows that he may be more than the backup many seem to be relegating him to be.

Maybe he is only backup quality, but we need to see him healthy to know for sure. Don't draft him as more than a RB3 and you will be fine.
I don'think that is the case:DeAngelo Williams, Panthers

Cedric Benson, Bengals

Ahmad Bradshaw, Giants

Joseph Addai, Colts

Ronnie Brown, Dolphins

Benjarvus Green-Ellis, Patriots

Mike Tolbert, Chargers

Michael Bush, Raiders

Ricky Williams, Dolphins

Jerome Harrison, Eagles

Clinton Portis

Brandon Jackson, Packers

I think any number of guys could come in and become a major threat to his production. Not saying all of these guys could, but a few. Snelling?

and lets not forget if Tebow gets the starting gig.....he will vulture some serious looks inside the 10....

 
Last edited by a moderator:
and lets not forget if Tebow gets the starting gig.....he will vulture some serious looks inside the 10....
If that's the case, he won't be the starting QB very long since he'll be in the hospitalalso, Bush, BGE, and Tolbert are all restricted. ROnnie may be washed up, Benson is candidate for suspension, Jerome Harrison nor Brandon Jackson have never held a starting gig, Ricky & Portis are old men. I don't think any of those guys other than Deangelo and Ahmad who would get a majority carries if RBBC w/ Moreno
 
Last edited by a moderator:
'r3t2 said:
for what it's worth he's working harder then ever to be in top shape this offseason.

Moreno's workout
after reading this article i really do think his biggest problem is health. in my .5 PPR league he was 6th in PPG at RB going into week 15, when he got injured. he was barely used the rest of the way making his season-ending numbers look average.

yeah, 6th! after week 14 he was ahead of chris johnson, frank gore, MJD, bradshaw, turner, charles, mendenhall, ray rice, forte, s jackson, etc. in PPG (with 7 games of 18 or more points). interestingly, a couple of the guys ahead of him, mcfadden and mccoy, were guys everyone around here was crushing this time last year also. that just doesnt sound like a bust to me. actually, it sounds like a guy who helped teams get into the playoffs and then burned them once they got there.
Agree with you. I think people that owned Moreno in a ppr last year realize better how good he really was and understand what was going on at the end of the year.

I think he can easily (EASILY) be the Ahmad Bradshaw of this year in terms of FF production. He won't be McFadden or Foster. the team is not that good. But he can definitely put up the combination of yards/scores/catches to be a guy that you just keep looking at each week and seeing 15-22, top 15 or so RB, very solid RB2 with brief glimpses of something better.

I think the ball got rolling really early around here this year with a post from sombody (can't remember) that had a personal friend at the post and was just SO SO sure that Moreno was garbage. It got a lot of looks and lots of replies and some of us were trying to pull the reigns back on it and it fueled lots of replies, etc. I quit following the thread when I learned the poster was a personal friend of the guy he quoted. I just don't think you can be unbiased completely when its like that. But that thread seemed to trickle into a lot of the posts that have been regurgitated this LONG offseason.

Yes, the hate has went to far. I'm holding if I own him. I'm buying if I don't. Moreno is going to be just fine. I actually hope FOR a name FA other than DWIl to sign in Denver so I can grab Moreno Low. I don't think the Broncos will go big name because they have so many needs but if they did, none of these old guy out there are going to be legit threats to Moreno long term. PLEASE sign Ronnie Brown or Portis or Law firm or those guys. Just helps me get Moreno cheaper. Actually, Addai would be another guy I would prefer did not come to Denver. He is very underrated in FF when healthy.

 
and lets not forget if Tebow gets the starting gig.....he will vulture some serious looks inside the 10....
If that's the case, he won't be the starting QB very long since he'll be in the hospitalalso, Bush, BGE, and Tolbert are all restricted. ROnnie may be washed up, Benson is candidate for suspension, Jerome Harrison nor Brandon Jackson have never held a starting gig, Ricky & Portis are old men. I don't think any of those guys other than Deangelo and Ahmad who would get a majority carries if RBBC w/ Moreno
Jerome Harrison had 194 rushes and 34 receptions in 13 games in 2009 for 1082/7 which looks pretty similar to the 182/37 for 1151/8 that Moreno put up in 13 games last season.
 

Users who are viewing this thread

Back
Top