jurb26
Footballguy
No, it's about people who DON'T have Betts taking him in the 7th hoping for a Portis injury. Not sure how many times I've said this now.
Fantasy Football - Footballguys Forums
This is a sample guest message. Register a free account today to become a member! Once signed in, you'll be able to participate on this site by adding your own topics and posts, as well as connect with other members through your own private inbox!
Ladell Betts Owners (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter Sweetness_34
- Start date
Neil Beaufort Zod
Footballguy
I don't understand the "what if Portis doesn't get hurt" argument. That doesn't mean someone wasted a pick on Betts. What if you buy term insurance but don't die? Did you waste your money, or did the insurance buy you a feeling of security?
Even if you don't own Portis, the reward Betts could bring might be worth more than the security of a mediocre starter. Not to mention the fact that it wasn't known if Portis would be ready to roll when most drafts occurred.
Betts went way too early for me in my leagues but I can see the value. Having a bunch of technical starters doesn't necessarily make me feel better about my team. I'm willing to take some risk for potential reward if something unforseen happens.
Even if you don't own Portis, the reward Betts could bring might be worth more than the security of a mediocre starter. Not to mention the fact that it wasn't known if Portis would be ready to roll when most drafts occurred.
Betts went way too early for me in my leagues but I can see the value. Having a bunch of technical starters doesn't necessarily make me feel better about my team. I'm willing to take some risk for potential reward if something unforseen happens.
Sweetness_34
Footballguy
You are clearly showing us why you are a guppie now. Go back and read my post where I listed all the cases. If Portis does not go down, I can start Jamal or MBIII or Foster or Dunn at flex (on weeks where I like the match ups) and win games. I already have thanks to Foster in week 1 and Jamal in week 2. The Betts owner who passed on one of them CANNOT.
If Portis goes down at some point, I can still start one of these guys and survive. Sure the Betts guy can start Betts at his flex and that will help him , no doubt there. But this is the only case where he gets something back for his 7th round pick.
Now if your Rb1 goes down, I can start Jamal or Foster or Dunn as a starting RB with Portis and at least try to compete with my WRs etc.....the Betts owner cannot.....he is screwed now.
2 out of 3 cases, the Betts owner who does not have Portis loses.
Burning Sensation
Footballguy
I appologize, if they have Portis, i could understand taking Betts ahead of Barber, but barring that, i just cant see why anyone would take Betts over Barber. I do understand though that someone may know somethng i dont.....its just not likely.Considering you have no knowledge of the leagues, the experience of the owners in those leagues, what they were thinking & why they did what they did, what the rest of their draft was like, I'd say that was an extremely arrogant statement on your part & having read a lot of your posts in the past, I'm pretty surprised you'd post something like that.Well, let me ask you this, how many guppies have to be in a league for it to be considered a guppy league? Whatever league had an owner draft Betts over MBIII has a one guppy head start.Betts went before MB111 in a couple of my leagues & they're NOT guppie leagues. Personally I wouldn't have done it, but I guess those guys bought into the whole Portis has a "degenerative knee" thing hook line & sinker.
Neil Beaufort Zod
Footballguy
What if, when you drafted (not knowing how Portis would shake out), you liked the potential of Betts over the 'security" of having a technical starter? Is Betts over a guy like Deshaun Foster really such a bad move in early August?
Sweetness_34
Footballguy
Burning - we are ONLY debating about the Betts owners who drafted Betts despite NOT drafting Portis.....to me that was pure wishful thinking based off the offseason fears of tendinitis, degenrative knee of Portis etc. Portis looks like the Portis of old....and I am happier to have Jamal as my RB3 that I can start at Flex and even start at Rb2 if Portis goes down or even RB1 if my Rb1 go down than have Betts, who can only play if Portis goes down.I appologize, if they have Portis, i could understand taking Betts ahead of Barber, but barring that, i just cant see why anyone would take Betts over Barber. I do understand though that someone may know somethng i dont.....its just not likely.Considering you have no knowledge of the leagues, the experience of the owners in those leagues, what they were thinking & why they did what they did, what the rest of their draft was like, I'd say that was an extremely arrogant statement on your part & having read a lot of your posts in the past, I'm pretty surprised you'd post something like that.Well, let me ask you this, how many guppies have to be in a league for it to be considered a guppy league? Whatever league had an owner draft Betts over MBIII has a one guppy head start.Betts went before MB111 in a couple of my leagues & they're NOT guppie leagues. Personally I wouldn't have done it, but I guess those guys bought into the whole Portis has a "degenerative knee" thing hook line & sinker.
Big Score
Footballguy
I appologize, if they have Portis, i could understand taking Betts ahead of Barber, but barring that, i just cant see why anyone would take Betts over Barber. I do understand though that someone may know somethng i dont.....its just not likely.Considering you have no knowledge of the leagues, the experience of the owners in those leagues, what they were thinking & why they did what they did, what the rest of their draft was like, I'd say that was an extremely arrogant statement on your part & having read a lot of your posts in the past, I'm pretty surprised you'd post something like that.Well, let me ask you this, how many guppies have to be in a league for it to be considered a guppy league? Whatever league had an owner draft Betts over MBIII has a one guppy head start.Betts went before MB111 in a couple of my leagues & they're NOT guppie leagues. Personally I wouldn't have done it, but I guess those guys bought into the whole Portis has a "degenerative knee" thing hook line & sinker.
Now that's more like the Burning Sensation I'm used to Sweetness_34
Footballguy
To me that was wishful thinking. Portis is known to not like preseason. And the Deshaun coach said time and time Deshaun was the starterThings may change in the future....Portis may go down tomorrow...Foster may get injured....Jamal may return to being a 60 yard a game back. BUT IT DOES NOT CHANGE THE FACT THAT I HAVE 2 MORE WINS THANKS TO THOSE RBS ......wins are what matter in FF......every one of them.....the season is too short. And with every game that Portis continues to start, the betts decision becomes more and more useless and non-value add. Now if it was in the 12th round I can understand.....but 7th round????? When TEs like Kellen Winslow were available? (I have not even mentioned the other value not at RB that was passed up for Betts in drafts)
Burning Sensation
Footballguy
OK, then let me just finish by saying this. Although i would not do it, i can understand why someone would. I am not big on the starting RB scraps one can pick up after round 5-6. You will be lucky to have to use them once, you will be terribly unlucky to have to use them more than that.Burning - we are ONLY debating about the Betts owners who drafted Betts despite NOT drafting Portis.....to me that was pure wishful thinking based off the offseason fears of tendinitis, degenrative knee of Portis etc. Portis looks like the Portis of old....and I am happier to have Jamal as my RB3 that I can start at Flex and even start at Rb2 if Portis goes down or even RB1 if my Rb1 go down than have Betts, who can only play if Portis goes down.I appologize, if they have Portis, i could understand taking Betts ahead of Barber, but barring that, i just cant see why anyone would take Betts over Barber. I do understand though that someone may know somethng i dont.....its just not likely.Considering you have no knowledge of the leagues, the experience of the owners in those leagues, what they were thinking & why they did what they did, what the rest of their draft was like, I'd say that was an extremely arrogant statement on your part & having read a lot of your posts in the past, I'm pretty surprised you'd post something like that.Well, let me ask you this, how many guppies have to be in a league for it to be considered a guppy league? Whatever league had an owner draft Betts over MBIII has a one guppy head start.Betts went before MB111 in a couple of my leagues & they're NOT guppie leagues. Personally I wouldn't have done it, but I guess those guys bought into the whole Portis has a "degenerative knee" thing hook line & sinker.
Last edited by a moderator:
And in my league I won thanks to Ahman Green, whom I drafted ahead of Betts. After all, you're comparing Betts to Jamal Lewis.
Sweetness_34
Footballguy
And if you drafted Betts in the 7th without having Portis on your roster, you would rather have Betts starting as your Rb1 or 2 when either of your Rbs go down?If Portis goes down, you would rather have Foster or Dunn starting over Betts?No, your team is screwed if your RB goes down and all you have left to play is a backup instead of an actual starting NFL RB. If Portis goes down, he still has 3 RBs who will be hitting the field and seeing significant touches, Betts or not.We all get it kid, but your point is still weak. People can draft Betts in the 7th, 8th or 9th round and still have a better team than yours, with the difference being if Portis goes down you're screwed and the ones who have Betts are not. I know I'd rather have Betts in my bench than Foster. Lewis is irrelevant to this discussion because unless you drafted with #######, no one passed on him to get Betts.If you start them against the correct opponents, there is VALUABLE PRODUCTION that will help you win games. Eg: Look at Foster's #s from the Rams-Car game in week 1. I will take that in my flex position any day of the week.....I started Foster and benched Jamal in week 1.... (since Jamal was against Steelers week 1 - easy projection to make).....in week 2 I benched Foster and started Jamal.... (again Cincy D was easy projection to make).....guess what, I got Flex production for 2 weeks that BOTH HELPED ME WIN GAMES THE PAST 2 WEEKS......do you get it now???? All this while Betts was sitting on a bench somewhere. Even if Portis gets injured tonight, guess what......I will always have the 2 wins I would have not had without Jamal or Foster.....now if Portis DOES NOT get injured at all, then do you see how I can win at the flex position in most weeks by selecting match ups....sure there will be weeks when I may start a WR at the flex because I do not like either the Jamal or Foster match up.....but it does not change the fact that they helped me win games 2 weeks in a row....games that will actually HELP me to get to the playoffs.....get it???????Dunn is one hell of a starter...not. Betts has more upside than Dunn or Foster, who cares if they are starters, they're not making the lineup in any decent team. When Portis misses some time, Betts will see the lineup in a lot of teams.I guess you're not following too well. He does not have his backup, only 3 other starting RBs who didn't need an injury to get there in the 1st place.Who said I drafted him in the 7th? You evidently have Portis who is not exactly the ironman, so if he goes down you lose your #2 RB and you don't have his backup, one of 2 backups worth drafting.So you (or people you are defending) drafted a back up RB in the 7th round?Again, look at who you (or people you are defending) could have had.... think Lamont Jordan in the 7th round
Sweetness_34
Footballguy
Steeler - I used Jamal and Deshaun and Dunn as examples. In some leagues, it was them, in some others it was MB III, in some others it was Adrian Peterson; in some others it was Ahman Green; in some others it was Fred Taylor; in some others it was Marshawn Lynch; in some others it was Brandon JacksonEvery league it was different but the general consensus is that when Betts was taken in the 7th round, there were starting RBs (in RBBC in most cases or ones that were given up on for various reasons like Jamal or some times Ahman) available that would have been better choices.
Burning Sensation
Footballguy
4 man league?
My RB's:LTAnd if you drafted Betts in the 7th without having Portis on your roster, you would rather have Betts starting as your Rb1 or 2 when either of your Rbs go down?If Portis goes down, you would rather have Foster or Dunn starting over Betts?No, your team is screwed if your RB goes down and all you have left to play is a backup instead of an actual starting NFL RB. If Portis goes down, he still has 3 RBs who will be hitting the field and seeing significant touches, Betts or not.We all get it kid, but your point is still weak. People can draft Betts in the 7th, 8th or 9th round and still have a better team than yours, with the difference being if Portis goes down you're screwed and the ones who have Betts are not. I know I'd rather have Betts in my bench than Foster. Lewis is irrelevant to this discussion because unless you drafted with #######, no one passed on him to get Betts.If you start them against the correct opponents, there is VALUABLE PRODUCTION that will help you win games. Eg: Look at Foster's #s from the Rams-Car game in week 1. I will take that in my flex position any day of the week.....I started Foster and benched Jamal in week 1.... (since Jamal was against Steelers week 1 - easy projection to make).....in week 2 I benched Foster and started Jamal.... (again Cincy D was easy projection to make).....guess what, I got Flex production for 2 weeks that BOTH HELPED ME WIN GAMES THE PAST 2 WEEKS......do you get it now???? All this while Betts was sitting on a bench somewhere. Even if Portis gets injured tonight, guess what......I will always have the 2 wins I would have not had without Jamal or Foster.....now if Portis DOES NOT get injured at all, then do you see how I can win at the flex position in most weeks by selecting match ups....sure there will be weeks when I may start a WR at the flex because I do not like either the Jamal or Foster match up.....but it does not change the fact that they helped me win games 2 weeks in a row....games that will actually HELP me to get to the playoffs.....get it???????Dunn is one hell of a starter...not. Betts has more upside than Dunn or Foster, who cares if they are starters, they're not making the lineup in any decent team. When Portis misses some time, Betts will see the lineup in a lot of teams.I guess you're not following too well. He does not have his backup, only 3 other starting RBs who didn't need an injury to get there in the 1st place.Who said I drafted him in the 7th? You evidently have Portis who is not exactly the ironman, so if he goes down you lose your #2 RB and you don't have his backup, one of 2 backups worth drafting.So you (or people you are defending) drafted a back up RB in the 7th round?
Ladell Betts
Ahman Green
Lamont Jordan
FatDale White
Chris Brown
Kevin Jones
If LT goes down I'm screwed, and having a scrub on my roster like Foster wont fix that problem.
A guy like Foster or Dunn would never see my lineup, even with LT down, but if Portis goes down Betts would certainly see my lineup some weeks. There's the point in drafting one of the the top backups in football.
Last edited by a moderator:
Howling Mad
Footballguy
Isn't week 2 a bit early to start boasting about how much smarter you were than everyone else? Big deal if people drafted Betts in Round 7, that's when most people are grabbing a TE or a backup WR. It's not like people drafting MJD in round 2. Getting a RB who rushed for 1000yds the previous year is a solid gamble in round 7 or 8, and it would not be a shock if Portis blows his knee out 5 weeks in.
Big Score
Footballguy
That's certainly a healthy stable of RB's you've got there & in your case, you certainly wouldn't need to plug in a Dunn, or a Foster.However I count 7 RB's on your roster, so your league obviously has large rosters. But what if you were in a league with a 14 player rosters size (which a lot of people are in) & you only have 3 RB's LT, Edge & Betts. Now LT or Edge goes down. Unfortunately you have a decent record & waivers go worst to first so you miss out on the back up to your guy who went down. In that scenario I'm sure you'd wish you would've taken a Dunn or a Foster over Betts, right?That's the point that's being made here & it is a valid one.
In your scenario you're right, it's not a wise choice to draft Betts as a 3rd RB.But actually we have 14 roster spots. I only roster 2 QB and 1 K and we don't use a Defense, so I have 4 WR to fill 3 spots (TE's count as receivers) as I recently droped Bruce to roster Brown.
Big Score
Footballguy
Interesting league.
Grahamburn
Footballguy
Every running back in the league is "one knee" from being hurt. Clinton doesn't look "hurt" at all to me at the moment and the fact that the Redskins are winning and Betts got ONLY five carries last night bodes well for Portis owners.I took Betts in the 8th round after I took Portis in the 4th round, I sleep well at night I hope you also took Betts in the later rounds of your FF draft or are you taking the blue pill, as Portis is one knee from being hurt.All those that drafted Betts in the 7th round or so, you could have had Lamont Jordan instead.Are you convinced now that Portis is the man in Wash or are you still delusional about Betts 1000 yard season last year?Portis has 170 yards and 2 TDs in 2 games....and it will only get better for us Portis owners as Portis gets more and more into game shape.
KellysHeroes
Footballguy
I would Target Betts now if your a CP owner....
B-Deep
Footballguy
Then perhaps you should change your thread topic to:Betts owners who took Betts in round 7 instead of MB3 or Jamal Lewis even though you do NOT own Portis, I TOLD YOU SOSweetness_34 said:Burning - we are ONLY debating about the Betts owners who drafted Betts despite NOT drafting Portis.....to me that was pure wishful thinking based off the offseason fears of tendinitis, degenrative knee of Portis etc. Portis looks like the Portis of old....and I am happier to have Jamal as my RB3 that I can start at Flex and even start at Rb2 if Portis goes down or even RB1 if my Rb1 go down than have Betts, who can only play if Portis goes down.Burning Sensation said:I appologize, if they have Portis, i could understand taking Betts ahead of Barber, but barring that, i just cant see why anyone would take Betts over Barber. I do understand though that someone may know somethng i dont.....its just not likely.Big Score said:Considering you have no knowledge of the leagues, the experience of the owners in those leagues, what they were thinking & why they did what they did, what the rest of their draft was like, I'd say that was an extremely arrogant statement on your part & having read a lot of your posts in the past, I'm pretty surprised you'd post something like that.Burning Sensation said:Well, let me ask you this, how many guppies have to be in a league for it to be considered a guppy league? Whatever league had an owner draft Betts over MBIII has a one guppy head start.Big Score said:Betts went before MB111 in a couple of my leagues & they're NOT guppie leagues. Personally I wouldn't have done it, but I guess those guys bought into the whole Portis has a "degenerative knee" thing hook line & sinker.Steeler07 said:
Sure it is not as dramatic, but it would be more accurate.
corpcow
Footballguy
Sweetness_34 said:So you (or people you are defending) drafted a back up RB in the 7th round?Steeler07 said:
I took Jordan in the 6th and Betts in the 11th... Looking over some of the FBG pre-season content, the average magazine rankings had Jordan behind Betts, though if you look at average some had him as high as top 50 which Betts was not for any of them. The experts, MFL (a site generally used by more sharks than guppies), and mock drafts (again, more likely that good ff people are doing mock drafts).Experts: Jordan 62, Betts 84MFL: Jordan 83, Betts 96Mock drafts: Jordan 75, Betts 77Then, you have a site I've never heard of, 4 popular magazines, and CBS ranking Betts ahead.FFCalc: Betts 74, Jordan 834 popular magazines: Betts 70, Jordan 76CBS top 125: Betts 58, Jordan 66Sounds like anyone who took Betts over Jordan was not someone you should be worrying about in your league anyway. 
Last edited by a moderator:
Gridiron King
Footballguy
Before the season started I traded Betts and A Smith for Lamont Jordan. People were saying I got taken in the deal but with Palmer at QB guess who's leading the league at this point?
Legion of Doom
Footballguy
Howling Mad said:
Whiplash Inc.
Footballguy
Stop jinxing Portis' season....
Eagle Eye
Footballguy
Could it be....the gridiron king?
jurb26
Footballguy
This is a pretty flawed way of looking at it. A ton of negative Portis hype gained momentum after the knee thing. This was well after the mags had come out. So, a lot of people who may have seen Betts lower in those mags or in early preseason rankings very easily could have moved him up later on. As a matter of fact, several others in this thread as well as myself all have stated we saw this happen 1st hand in drafts we participated in.Sweetness_34 said:So you (or people you are defending) drafted a back up RB in the 7th round?Steeler07 said:
Sweetness_34
Footballguy
I agree with the bolded part. However, it never stopped the Betts for President yahoos from telling those of us who kept telling them that Portis would be the starter and Betts was just a back up, how smart they were in the offseason for drafting Betts in the 7th rounds. I saw comparisons made to Larry Johnson too. Was it a little early for them when not a single down of regular season had been played???Also, in round 7, would you rather have Betts rotting our bench right now or Kellen Winslow Junior actually winning games for you the 1st 2 weeks?Howling Mad said:
Last edited by a moderator:
Sweetness_34
Footballguy
Banger said:
They must have fled to the hills by now....because all we hear now is how they never thought this was going to be a RBBC and that they ONLY drafted Betts for the upside in the eventuality that Portis got injured. 
Carter_Can_Fly
Footballguy
I said this in the Game thread last night. But I will repeat it again that Betts was drafted way to early in 90% of every draft he was in. Whether you have Portis or not I think taking Betts in the 7th to 9th rounds of any draft was way to early. I think it makes more sense to draft Betts in the 7th if you already had Portis, but I still think it was a mistake.
There are obviously different sides from those who drafted Betts. There were people being optimistic thinking this may turn into a Duece and Bush role or MJD and Taylor role where both players may have fantasy success. These are the same people saying Betts fit the system better and it will be a RBBC due to him being good last year etc etc.
Or
Those who think Portis is an injury liability and that Betts will pay dividends when/if Portis is injured.
My view:
I think anytime you draft a player in hopes of an injury you are in a wishing mode which the odds are usually against you. Now you may hit and it may pay off but more often than not you will be wrong. Sure there is the LJ scenario but how often does that happen? Also, way to many people underestimated how good Portis is and that if he is healthy there is no way it would be a RBBC with Betts who is what he is a good back up. Portis has in his career and is proving again this year that he is a great starting RB in this league.
There are obviously different sides from those who drafted Betts. There were people being optimistic thinking this may turn into a Duece and Bush role or MJD and Taylor role where both players may have fantasy success. These are the same people saying Betts fit the system better and it will be a RBBC due to him being good last year etc etc.
Or
Those who think Portis is an injury liability and that Betts will pay dividends when/if Portis is injured.
My view:
I think anytime you draft a player in hopes of an injury you are in a wishing mode which the odds are usually against you. Now you may hit and it may pay off but more often than not you will be wrong. Sure there is the LJ scenario but how often does that happen? Also, way to many people underestimated how good Portis is and that if he is healthy there is no way it would be a RBBC with Betts who is what he is a good back up. Portis has in his career and is proving again this year that he is a great starting RB in this league.
corpcow
Footballguy
Fair enough - though everything I read in the pre-season was that "he could have played if it was the regular season, but he just decided to be cautious". That said, I will echo the point made above that week 2 is a bit early. I actually was going to post as much in my post but forgot to - it's probably safe to say that most people who drafted Betts did so because they knew he could be productive if Portis gets hurt, and that's something based on the pre-season thought might be likely. That hasn't happened yet, but it's not to say it won't. Just wondering how many people drafted Betts thinking he would actually beat out Portis for the job, assuming Portis' health was not an issue?
Legion of Doom
Footballguy
You may very well be right,it's the timing of the thread. Using the first 2 weeks of the season as the basis for the rest of the year is a dangerous proposition.It's a long season
