LANDRY TO THE BROWNS (1 Viewer)

[Dr. Octopus]

Watkins has played 2 entire games in his BUF career. 

WR wise, he has played with no one even remotely close toLandry and Gordon (and believe me, I am huge on Watkins, his talent is ridiculous, he's just ALWAYS out)

What? Watkins played two games his entire career in Buffalo. Ridiculous.

and I didn’t say Gordon or Landry weren’t the best WRs he’s had (it’s debateable) but you said he was throwing to HS WRs which is a strange statement. Woods, Hogan and Goodwin looked a lot better once they left Buffalo and got away from Taylor. Weird, huh?

 

[Bronco Billy]

Laterals.

Lots and lots of laterals.

Ummm, that would not be a receiving TD, would it?

 

[Bracie Smathers]

Ummm, that would not be a receiving TD, would it?

 

[Biabreakable]

You lost me at comparible to Beckham. I’m sure there is some happy medium, probably one that involves him seeing a 25% reduction in targets to make sure others are involved over a zero percentile athlete. If you’re comparing him to Odell Beckham though, maybe you ought to quit while you’re behind because your film grinding is starting to lead you astray.

You are still talking about combine metrics after the start to Landrys career so far?

Obviously Landry is good at football or he would not have done as well as he has in less than ideal situation around him.

The player that Landry reminds me of is a bit smaller version of Chris Carter. He is a very good football player.

 

[Bojang0301]

You are still talking about combine metrics after the start to Landrys career so far?

Obviously Landry is good at football or he would not have done as well as he has in less than ideal situation around him.

The player that Landry reminds me of is a bit smaller version of Chris Carter. He is a very good football player.

I have serious doubts Cris Carter’s avg depth of target was 6 yards. Now is as good a time as any to trade for him if you believe that though. I don’t expect his targets to go down with Haley calling the plays and Taylor throwing the ball. If anyone’s value is hurt, it will be Gordon. Browns fans will be wondering why he is omitted by midseason which will be the same time the realization that Hue is the problem will kick in and Taylor will probably be benched deservingly or undeservingly.

 

[bucksoh]

So this pretty much tanks his value right?

 

[fruity pebbles]

So this pretty much tanks his value right?

Cant help. Low volume pass offense and a lot of mouths to feed with him, Gordon, Coleman, Duke, Njoku and possibly Barkley. 

 

[Bojang0301]

So this pretty much tanks his value right?

As hilarious as this is going to sound, I completely disagree. Taylor does not make risky throws and Haley loves throwing under 10 yards. I expect, for at least the first half of the season, he sees his normal targets if not completely being emphasized as the #1 in the offense. Haley’s staple is the bubble screen.

 

[audiophile]

Brutal.  Miami fleeced them.

I am a Miami fan and disagree completely.  I don't think Miami got enough for enough for Ajayi last year, and now they can't even get a 2nd rounder for Landry??  

The only silver lining is that Jarvis' asking price, salary-wise, was excessive.  So Miami avoided the salary cap hit - which I'm happy about.

I actually love this for the Browns.  Draft Barkley #1 and a QB with their second pick and the offense should be instantly competitive.  

 

[Soulfly3]

I am a Miami fan and disagree completely. 

Even Stevie Wonder disagrees with Patherclub's assessment of Landry.

So don't worry.

 

[renesauz]

Don't get all the hate for Landry. He's asking for too much money, he's not in the Julio Jones area talent wise...but he is in a high tier. He's a very VERY good WR. THe salary might come in too high, but the trade price was just fine. He's a great addition for the Browns.

 

[Soulfly3]

If you think he is in that tier of top wideouts then I dont know what to tell you... basically dink and dunk to him up the field and then in the red zone he gets shut out. 

He graded out as the best* redzone WR in the NFL this year, according to PFF.  He was #5 in redzone target share as well. 

Edit: Sorry, second best.  https://www.profootballfocus.com/news/pro-vikings-wr-diggs-emerges-as-one-of-the-nfls-best-red-zone-weapons

Still has me laughing. Wheezing, in fact. 

 

[Jello_Biafra]

Good move for the Browns. Bad for Landry dynasty owners, short term at least,

 

[pantherclub]

Still has me laughing. Wheezing, in fact. 

Yeah I was wrong about that I was thinking of prior years and like I said earlier I have backed off on this trade as being bad now that its a reported 4rth.  Still dont like the contract he will get but you can afford it.

But say, tell me again how Johnny Football and Gordan are going to lay waste to the nfl.  Those stories are always a good read.

 

[NeverEnough]

I own Landry in 1 dynasty & will hold. In the other, I am trying to buy.

 

[DallasDMac]

Yeah I was wrong about that I was thinking of prior years and like I said earlier I have backed off on this trade as being bad now that its a reported 4rth.  Still dont like the contract he will get but you can afford it.

But say, tell me again how Johnny Football and Gordan are going to lay waste to the nfl.  Those stories are always a good read.

Ah man, so close to posting something non-dooshish. Then you saved it at the end. Well done.

 

[NeverEnough]

I own Landry in 1 dynasty & will hold. In the other, I am trying to buy.

Well, maybe not. his owner wants AJG & Juju for him!

 

[Atomic Punk]

I just offered a 2.06 and 2.11 and got a "huh" in response. I think owners will hold unless they get the equivalent of a mid to late 1st.

 

[Soulfly3]

I just offered a 2.06 and 2.11 and got a "huh" in response. I think owners will hold unless they get the equivalent of a mid to late 1st.

You offered 2 junk picks for the 3rd highest receptioned WR since entering the league, and you're pondering his response?

 

[Atomic Punk]

Not really. I'm testing the waters based on about 40% of the comments on this board saying his value has dropped. A 2.06/2.11 is equivalent to a late 1st according to FBGs trade chart. I also offered it to a team that only has one draft pick and could use some youth added to his roster. He is also deep at WR. All in all, not too outrageous.

 

[ghostguy123]

I just offered a 2.06 and 2.11 and got a "huh" in response. I think owners will hold unless they get the equivalent of a mid to late 1st.

Yeesh.  Surprised he responded at all.

 

[FF Ninja]

Fleeced?

A top WR, an absolute necessity (possession/ppr guy) for a 3rd rounder, is fleeced?

What WR are you throwing a dart at in the 3rd to end up anywhere enar Landry's talent?

I'm late to this thread, but yes, Miami fleeced them. What you and others seem to be missing:

1) a third round pick may not have great odds of hitting, but if you hit, you've got an amazing (cheap) contract for 4 years which is how good teams stay competitive while also paying their core stars
2) they didn't trade a third for Landry - they traded a third for the right to overpay Landry (either keep him at a ridiculous one year price or pay him too much for a long term contract)
3) Miami was backed into a corner - they couldn't afford to keep Landry and I can't imagine there were that many teams interested in trading even a late pick just for the privilege of overpaying a slow slot receiver

I don't mean to imply this is some sort of monumental screw up, but it's not how I'd run my franchise. Landry and Tyrod would be low on my list of targets. I hope it works out for them, though. Would be good to see the Browns get it together.

 

[Dr. Octopus]

I'm late to this thread, but yes, Miami fleeced them. What you and others seem to be missing:

1) a third round pick may not have great odds of hitting, but if you hit, you've got an amazing (cheap) contract for 4 years which is how good teams stay competitive while also paying their core stars
2) they didn't trade a third for Landry - they traded a third for the right to overpay Landry (either keep him at a ridiculous one year price or pay him too much for a long term contract)
3) Miami was backed into a corner - they couldn't afford to keep Landry and I can't imagine there were that many teams interested in trading even a late pick just for the privilege of overpaying a slow slot receiver

I don't mean to imply this is some sort of monumental screw up, but it's not how I'd run my franchise. Landry and Tyrod would be low on my list of targets. I hope it works out for them, though. Would be good to see the Browns get it together.

They traded a 4th and 7th for Landry.

 

[Bojang0301]

Not really. I'm testing the waters based on about 40% of the comments on this board saying his value has dropped. A 2.06/2.11 is equivalent to a late 1st according to FBGs trade chart. I also offered it to a team that only has one draft pick and could use some youth added to his roster. He is also deep at WR. All in all, not too outrageous.

I don’t think it was a bad offer but I’m also not in a desperate fan base or trying to justify Landry in comparison to HOF’ers. His downside is easily 70 670 3... super exciting. I doubt they have the competence to target Gordon/Coleman/Njoku/Johnson (or Barkley) effectively though which is what would lead to that.

 

[FF Ninja]

They traded a 4th and 7th for Landry.

Ah that's right, but the point remains the same. That guy was saying a 3rd is basically worthless, but a 3rd actually has a lot of NFL value. A 4th is slightly less, but still has value. Granted, a large part of the value is cap savings which isn't the Browns problem right now. But WR talent was their problem, either. But whatever... maybe I can finally buy low on Coleman. Been trying for a year and a half... It's going to eventually happen.

 

[Dr. Octopus]

Ah that's right, but the point remains the same. That guy was saying a 3rd is basically worthless, but a 3rd actually has a lot of NFL value. A 4th is slightly less, but still has value. Granted, a large part of the value is cap savings which isn't the Browns problem right now. But WR talent was their problem, either. But whatever... maybe I can finally buy low on Coleman. Been trying for a year and a half... It's going to eventually happen.

Yeah the 3rd was in reference to Taylor (traded the 3.1 for him) = which is very valuable.

I don't think the Landry trade was bad for them since they have too much cap space anyway and could use a chain mover. I'm not the biggest fan of Landry at all but he can get open and catch the ball. He compliments Gordon and Coleman well.

 

[FF Ninja]

Yeah the 3rd was in reference to Taylor (traded the 3.1 for him) = which is very valuable.

I don't think the Landry trade was bad for them since they have too much cap space anyway and could use a chain mover. I'm not the biggest fan of Landry at all but he can get open and catch the ball. He compliments Gordon and Coleman well.

Oh that's weird bc he was saying something about drafting a WR with the 3rd, that's why I was thinking they were related. Trading 3.01 for Taylor is pretty bad. I wanted to believe in T-Mobile but I just don't anymore. But Hue Jackson ran a very effective offense while only throwing the ball like 450 times a few seasons ago with Dalton/McCarron. Maybe he can pull that off here. They need to start spending on defense to make it work, though.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------

Here's a cap expert talking about the Landry move by the Dolphins:

Post: What do you think would be the pros and the cons of franchise tagging a player such as Jarvis Landry, if the intent is to trade him?

Corry: I think the Dolphins are getting a little cute with that one. To me, because you shopped him last year at the trading deadline and couldn’t find any takers, so now to me, it’s a little bit worse. Because now, someone would have to take on the franchise tag, but also give up significant compensation in return to get him. And then given he thinks he should be paid like an elite receiver, and guys who don’t stretch the field aren’t paid typically at that level, you’ll get no compensation, having to pay him more than he’s probably worth. So I don’t really see that happening unless you have one of these receiver-needy teams with tons of cap room, getting desperate. He signed the tender. So now you’re stuck if you can’t work out a trade. Because it’s fully guaranteed. Now that he’s signed it, you can’t rescind it. So I think the Dolphins may have outsmarted themselves. You didn’t want him six months ago! If someone could have taken him off your hands then you would have done it.

http://dailydolphin.blog.palmbeachpost.com/2018/03/09/nfl-salary-cap-expert-weighs-in-on-dolphins-suh-and-landry-dilemmas/

 

[Buckna]

Yeah the 3rd was in reference to Taylor (traded the 3.1 for him) = which is very valuable.

I don't think the Landry trade was bad for them since they have too much cap space anyway and could use a chain mover. I'm not the biggest fan of Landry at all but he can get open and catch the ball. He compliments Gordon and Coleman well.

Landry is a good football move, terrible for fantasy, but will be a good safety blanket for Tyrod who loves check downs/underneath stuff or a rookie QB.

 

[ghostguy123]

Ah that's right, but the point remains the same. That guy was saying a 3rd is basically worthless, but a 3rd actually has a lot of NFL value. A 4th is slightly less, but still has value. Granted, a large part of the value is cap savings which isn't the Browns problem right now. But WR talent was their problem, either. But whatever... maybe I can finally buy low on Coleman. Been trying for a year and a half... It's going to eventually happen.

A move can be good for BOTH teams sometimes ya know.  We wanted him and paid 1% of our draft capital to get him.  

 

[ghostguy123]

For the last time (hopefully) everyone knows that giving up pick 65 for Tyrod Taylor is technically bad value.  I would bet even John Dorsey knows this.  

Thing is, it was a necessary move.  None of the good free agent QBs were going to come here.  None.  We can not go into yet another season without a QB on the roster who has an NFL win.  Could...........not..............happen. 

The only way this team will ever be able to do anything (outside of hitting on 8 picks a year), is to bring in some players by overpaying to get some wins so that we aren't a complete "avoid" when players either think about signing here or re-signing here.

Bottom line, Tyrod Taylor has more value for this franchise at this time than pick 65 does.

 

[FF Ninja]

A move can be good for BOTH teams sometimes ya know.  We wanted him and paid 1% of our draft capital to get him.  

A 4th and a 7th is still too much, but yeah, it won't be the straw that breaks the camel's back. But even if the Browns do miraculously turn it around this season, Landry is not a guy I'd want on my books as a highly paid WR for 4-5 years. I hope they front load that contract and have him cuttable in 2 years. I really don't know why, but I'm rooting for the Browns to turn things around. Just don't like the way they've started things this year.

 

[ghostguy123]

A 4th and a 7th is still too much, but yeah, it won't be the straw that breaks the camel's back. But even if the Browns do miraculously turn it around this season, Landry is not a guy I'd want on my books as a highly paid WR for 4-5 years. I hope they front load that contract and have him cuttable in 2 years. I really don't know why, but I'm rooting for the Browns to turn things around. Just don't like the way they've started things this year.

I personally think it's a good move even if he walks after this year.  SOMETHING has to happen on the field for this team this year.

Better move if we sign him longer obviously.

 

[FF Ninja]

For the last time (hopefully) everyone knows that giving up pick 65 for Tyrod Taylor is technically bad value.  I would bet even John Dorsey knows this.  

Thing is, it was a necessary move.  None of the good free agent QBs were going to come here.  None.  We can not go into yet another season without a QB on the roster who has an NFL win.  Could...........not..............happen. 

The only way this team will ever be able to do anything (outside of hitting on 8 picks a year), is to bring in some players by overpaying to get some wins so that we aren't a complete "avoid" when players either think about signing here or re-signing here.

There are a lot of QBs looking for homes right now. I really liked the idea of Bradford. I know there was a quote from a non-medical professional about his knee, but I'd still have been targeting him as my bridge QB if I was the Browns. He looked really good to start the season last year and he was definitely a passable QB for 15 games in 2016. Teams are going to be hesitant to invest in him, so he needs somewhere like Cleveland to prove himself. And best of all, he'd be cheap. You wouldn't have to spend any picks to acquire him and his salary would probably be at or below Tyrod's $16M number.

They definitely did not HAVE to trade that 3.01 for Tyrod. I mean, who the hell were they bidding against? You think someone else offered a mid-3rd to take on the last year of Tyrod's contract? 

I personally think it's a good move even if he walks after this year.  SOMETHING has to happen on the field for this team this year.

Better move if we sign him longer obviously.

A slow slot guy isn't exactly what I think of when I think of players that can make things happen.

I saw someone else mention that Landry was 7th in the league in 1st downs as if that's saying something positive. When you're 1st in the league in receptions, of course you're going to be at least 7th in 1st downs. What you should look for is a 1:1 match. The guy with the 7th most receptions should have the 7th most first downs or else he's not as good as his volume. The only thing that stat tells you is that you are doing yourself wrong by continuing to target a guy who is turning in 1st downs below the average clip. I know there is some nuance I'm breezing past here, but what I'm trying to say is that Landry isn't some sort of splash acquisition. The only reason anyone might think that is because they're conflating volume with talent. And I realize talent usually leads to volume, but it's not true 100% of the time. We've all seen talented players sidelined and less talented players fed volume they didn't deserve. 

---------------------------

I've seen some pretty crazy projections being thrown around about Landry. How many passes do people expect Cleveland to throw this year? Are people expecting Gordon to get suspended again and Coleman to get injured? I will confidently take the under on 140 targets if Coleman and Gordon are present and Tyrod is the QB.

 

[ericttspikes]

As hilarious as this is going to sound, I completely disagree. Taylor does not make risky throws and Haley loves throwing under 10 yards. I expect, for at least the first half of the season, he sees his normal targets if not completely being emphasized as the #1 in the offense. Haley’s staple is the bubble screen.

I agree. I've seen a lot of opinions that this trade tanks his value, but how much worse are the Browns than the Dolphins? Going into the year, on paper, the Browns seem to have the better team IMO. Haley seems like a big upgrade to Bill Lazor, Clyde Christensen and now Dowell Loggains. With Tannehill, Cutler and Matt Moore, Landry was a stud. Is Tyrod Taylor that big of a downgrade to those guys? We'll see, but Landry was going in the top 3 rounds of redrafts before the trade and now is 5 round and later post trade. Seems like a decent gamble he continues to be Jarvis Landry.